Why is Firebrand not that popular in WvW - [Merged]

[ArchonWing.9480]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:@"ArchonWing.9480" ok, u joking here? "People ought to realize that bags are pretty worthless in wvw, and anything of value comes from reward tracks..." ... what exactly at rewards tracks has any value? bags have the chance of deldrimor ingots at least. rewards tracks have absurdly small chances of ascended drops, but u still mostly have to change their stats for another ~5 gold. and it's like what, 5 ascended boxes in 50-60 reward track finishes? even with all kinds of buffs.

What are you even talking about? You can't get steel ingots from player drops (or at least it's so small chance that it doesn't matter) or heavy loot bags, plus players usually drop spikes. Doesn't matter either way, wvw loot just isn't very good and worrying about player tags for loot is dumb.

Looks like you're not running the living story reward tracks. Those have packets that can also drop t7 refined materials. (deldrimor/damask/elonian). There's also the skirmish tracks that also give stuff.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i did every existing track several times, currently just having the gift of battle one running up and down. soon the christmassy one comes anyways, so that i'm fine again. i often had too many mats without having many use for them other than selling them now and then.

so the lws3 tracks have a chance for ascended containters and give regularly stuff like iron ingots? bc that would be nice then.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ls4 too. Yea, plus a lot of the loot is samey so it isn't as much clutter. That's honestly better than anything else lol.

I personally run Sandswept Isles (that's season 4)

Other good ones are Bitterfrost Frontier and Bloodstone Fen for their currency that lets you buy ascended trinkets, and Draconis Mons so you can make Magninamous Utilities (those all consume useless t7 mats like bloodstone dust and such)

[volpenvieh.3201]

Boring...? I personally find firebrand to be very stressful. You always have to keep an eye on your whole party, pop stability at the right time and time your tomes right because if you don't you're either stuck in them for a while or end up wasting a lot of pages on high cooldown. Also your whole party relies on you and if something goes wrong you're most likely the first person to be blamed whereas you will rarely be praised if you do your job well. Firebrand is probably the most important class in wvw zerging and forms the backbone of every squad. Sure, some fights might go well without firebrands, especially in lower tiers, but in the long run everything will be much easier with a decent squad composition. Maybe shuff a reflect in those rangers' faces... :PI play a lot of different classes in WvW but firebrand is one of my least favourite - not because it's boring but because I always feel like I could've done much better.Whoever says firebrand is boring either is a genius or hasn't even gotten past the surface of the firebrand. (might contain exaggeration)

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Its a thankless job.

It is your job to make sure your Necros stay alive ( while they try their best to die) while you get almost no loot because you dont hit many people and your necros get millions of Bags.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

yeah, i ran those yet several times for the ascended trinkets & back when i was gearfarming months ago. i often lately just stacked up the same boxes, till i have like 20 of each minor and 6-8 of the champion boxes. my last opening set of these sadly didn't even give any ascended boxes :scream:

to come back to the thread @PrinceValentine.9320 just yesterday we had all our tags constantly asking for firebrands... its honestly the class every zerg needs, as many as possible, no matter if they know that they do or not. like if a squad is 35ppl but 15 are roamerspecs, it is big looking but supersquishy and can only run openformation = really not productive (the roamers should better... roam. instead of playing vulture.)

[Dawdler.8521]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:like if a squad is 35ppl but 15 are roamerspecs, it is big looking but supersquishy and can only run openformation = really not productive (the roamers should better... roam. instead of playing vulture.)And now there are 20 people on tag while the commander still loose every fight and cry in map chat for people to get on tag.

Maybe the zerglings should better... zerg.

:+1:

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ah yes. That kind of guild. They pretend their servermates don't exist until they have a use for them. It's not very smart to shun people and then demand their help 5 minutes later after you 1-push into another group of similar size, but that's just me!

Any guild that cannot function because they can't queue the map is not worth the space.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

well, 3 guilds at 20-30 size would be pretty effective yet. outside of WSR, not many get the size things like starblasting. and random ppl on the map aren't comparable to a guild group by any means, unless the guild is either focused on ppt or just newbie.

@Dawdler.8521 thing is size does in this part barely matter, if the composition lacks. u cannot have squishy things run through bombs, even with a firebrand that's not working. even things like weaver have their limits (and a ton of people seem to not use the range variant and just die). zergsets works as pug also kinda, but not deep within the enemy territory and not on supershishy, unsupported and offmeta classes.

@ArchonWing.9480 guilds of that small size have barely effect on anything, at 10 ppl u simply cannot get the dmg done to effectively push through 40 ppl, unless again they are total newbies and just run and die. can happen, but is a risky bet. the skill target caps alone make that complicated.

[Dawdler.8521]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:@Dawdler.8521 thing is size does in this part barely matter, if the composition lacks.Curious, since by far the most common complaint on the forum is unbalanced numbers while claiming numbers is all that matters.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:It's a pure support class so no less bags. When in tomes, you can't use weapon skills so it is a bit boring. But it is necessary to have against other organized zergs because stability so some people have to switch to it somewhat begrudingly.

Oh come on dude, who even plays for bags? If you're playing for bags you are in the wrong game mode... goto cursed shore for that.

I guess fb, or any support class is just boring or un fun to play as.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:It's a pure support class so no less bags. When in tomes, you can't use weapon skills so it is a bit boring. But it is necessary to have against other organized zergs because stability so some people have to switch to it somewhat begrudingly.

Oh come on dude, who even plays for bags? If you're playing for bags you are in the wrong game mode... goto cursed shore for that.

I guess fb, or any support class is just boring or un fun to play as.

I know that, but that's what I hear people complaining about. I tell them Heavy loot bags are only 3s, but they don't care.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

people like dawdler and "fat" just should maybe not comment on things they have no clue of? you guys don't sound as if you'd ever played largescale. bc of this narrow minded talk probably really some people might think firebrand is unwanted in zergs... i mean, if u bring a condi offensive variant, you might even be right, bc that cannot heal properly.

@Dawdler.8521 number inequality over a long time is just tiresome, bc u always have to play on 120% effectiveness, or you'll get pulled, stunned/immob or pew pewd by one of the enemies gankers. numbers matter on equal ground, not if the opposition is far more newbie/casual than your group surely. then their behaviour can still kill them, which may happen if they lack a solid lead who told them to just 1111 instead of running (which is natural behaviour of newer players when the centre gets pushed down)

i really don't understand what is that hard to understand on that numbers question? if u try to pay with ten 50 cent pieces, it is still less than if u pay with ten 2€ pieces, despite beeing 10 coins each. if u pay with hundred 1 cent pieces, u may have 100 coins, but the ten 2€ pieces are still worth more. ofc nobody is that bad that they'd be the equalation of 1 cent, that was just an extreme example.

like in largescale, the fighting guilds are 2€, the pugs 1€, total newbies 50cent if runnig meta, 20cent if not (since they can reveal your position during stealthing, rally oppoenents etc), experienced roamerclasses are also sth between those last two (no aoedmg, no stealth support often)

@Fat Disgrace.4275 you get like 1 heavy loot bag all ~3 kills, if u have like 1300 kills average across the matchups that surely is some nice extra loot.

also idk what is about that talking with cursed shore... the heavy loot bags of wvw are unique and contain still the best loot, outside of some mats that u can sell maybe, as ArchonWing said yet. i didn't make the best sells out of those tho, bc most mats that aren't really rare, just do sell neither quick nor that high. tier 1-3 and t6 are the moneygainers i think, but as we said yet, Wvw is rewardwise really lowest tier.

[Dawdler.8521]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:@"Dawdler.8521" number inequality over a long time is just tiresome, bc u always have to play on 120% effectiveness, or you'll get pulled, stunned/immob or pew pewd by one of the enemies gankers. numbers matter on equal ground, not if the opposition is far more newbie/casual than your group surely. then their behaviour can still kill them, which may happen if they lack a solid lead who told them to just 1111 instead of running (which is natural behaviour of newer players when the centre gets pushed down)

i really don't understand what is that hard to understand on that numbers question? if u try to pay with ten 50 cent pieces, it is still less than if u pay with ten 2€ pieces, despite beeing 10 coins each. if u pay with hundred 1 cent pieces, u may have 100 coins, but the ten 2€ pieces are still worth more. ofc nobody is that bad that they'd be the equalation of 1 cent, that was just an extreme example.

like in largescale, the fighting guilds are 2€, the pugs 1€, total newbies 50cent if runnig meta, 20cent if not (since they can reveal your position during stealthing, rally oppoenents etc), experienced roamerclasses are also sth between those last two (no aoedmg, no stealth support often)All I get from this is that players are cheap.

The only reason I responded to you was because you said 15 roamers was playing "vulture" in a 35 man squad and that being 20 would be "better". But you know... thats not your call to make. Thats the commanders. He is free to kick them. He is free to keep them. He is free to tell them go do something else.

If you had said its a 50 man squad with 15 roamers and 10+ sad faced minstrel firebrands running next to it then the reasoning for what would happen is self explanatory. But you didnt. You picked a smaller squad and told almost half of them to go eff themselves because thats "better".

Where you the commander in this scenario? Pretty sure my comment would still have been the end result. Its not like the enemy zerg would have said "look that squad which looked so big now looks smaller, the 20+ random roamers circling our own 50 man can now go home we no longer need them!".

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Ah yes. That kind of guild. They pretend their servermates don't exist until they have a use for them. It's not very smart to shun people and then demand their help 5 minutes later after you 1-push into another group of similar size, but that's just me!

Any guild that cannot function because they can't queue the map is not worth the space.

Same treatment JQ has been giving KN since the re-link. Do nothing but badmouth us in team chat, then complain when we don't come to their calls for help.

Sorry, if you are going to act like you don't want us there, we will pick our own objectives to defend or take. OG Kaineng had to perfect havoc teams and fighting outnumbered long before links, and we can continue to do that without you.

[suialthor.7164]

The xp/loot is horrible compared to when I am playing damage. The loot issue is more annoying than a real problem. Earning a fraction of the xp compared to when I play damage is a problem. More xp means higher ranks that eventually translates to quicker skirmish rewards.

As for gameplay, tomes are limiting. I enjoy support but after a while it gets boring. So why not play something else that is more rewarding and you don't have to hear people whine about cooldowns on stability.

[Jski.6180]

Seeing how they treat other class talks on the WVW forms maybe Firebrand is more popular on the forms then in game lol. I think that what is going on the class is fun to think about and to talk about but no one in there right mind wants to play one they just want some one else to play one.My class is balanced because its being supported by an Firebrand mind set seems to be the overwhelming point of view of the player base AND anet. Sadly this makes Firebrand a super pigeonholed class for wvw and over all much more boring to play.

[Zikory.6871]

A lot of these complaints seem to be more with the tags you follow and how they use Firebrand. 50/50 squads, pure range fights, outnumbering everything all very boring on Firebrand. Getting into melee with competent support and brawling for 2-5+ minutes = more loot and more fun.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"PrinceValentine.9320" said:I mostly play Firebrand when I am with a squad. I noticed that this squad that I play with has very few firebrands although they are very good as a pug and I sometimes play as a ranger and they never run out of rangers.

That is weird. Ranger isn't a squad class.

Anyway, as explained by others, the fact that you are getting significantly less loot, less XP, and are constantly doing the same routine rather than participating in the action per se is less attractive to many.

The commander is very tolerant towards people who like to play the class that they like. I even transferred to their linked server because of how friendly they are unlike other squads that are so "exclusive" and would bash the heck out of you by playing a non-meta class. I used to command in Devona's Rest (Kyros Guild) and I was like that commander. I ran with an open squad and I even commanded on my Ranger but I think that was back in 2016 when Spirit Ranger was really strong. I think commanders should always be friendly to encourage people to play WvW and although there are some shortcomings from the squad, it can still be fixed because everyone will be doing their best to win the fights.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Ah yes. That kind of guild. They pretend their servermates don't exist until they have a use for them. It's not very smart to shun people and then demand their help 5 minutes later after you 1-push into another group of similar size, but that's just me!

Any guild that cannot function because they can't queue the map is not worth the space.

Same treatment JQ has been giving KN since the re-link. Do nothing but badmouth us in team chat, then complain when we don't come to their calls for help.

Sorry, if you are going to act like you don't want us there, we will pick our own objectives to defend or take. OG Kaineng had to perfect havoc teams and fighting outnumbered long before links, and we can continue to do that without you.

I felt the same way when I was linked to FA. Left IOJ just after 2 days of being linked to that horrible server. They aren't even that good. Lol.

[Talindra.4958]

don't play firebrands.. the most useless class in zerg .. play thief and ranger..