Another Patch, Another Nerf Necromancers. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Another Patch, Another Nerf Necromancers.

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  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    It's not that simple. You ignore the fundamental reaper design. The spec is meant to use tanky gear (toughness and vitality - both is a must pick for the spec if you want to win a duell above gold division) while gaining the missing attributes (mainly crit chance and ferocity) through traits to be competitive.

    All three master traits raise the damge somehow! That's the baseline.

    On top of that:

    • Soul eater created a new option for players who don't want to pick tanky gear but raise the self-healing. This option was removed again.
    • Chilling victory is mainly a utility trait for life force generation (condi builds, non GS builds...).
    • Decimate defenses is a crit chance increasing trait to create the option to equip tanky, non-precision gear which makes you less healing dependent.

    These were good alternatives for diferent builds in competitive play and there soul eater has never been a problem. In pve soul eater was clearly overperforming (after 5 minutes of testing everybody could see it).

    So the only logical decision to balance soul eater for pve would have been either a decrease of the healing to 2% (real life best case scenario: 20k dps @ 3 targets = 1.2k healing per second) or remove the aoe and make it only benefit from the main target.

    For anet necro seems to be the most balanced profession in the game. Reaper and scourge were not touched and core was just normalized in cooldowns compared to the elite specs. So they should take the chance to rework blighter's boon and deathly chill to something usefull and true alternatives for different playstyles.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    So balance is done on kill speed of open world champions while being essentially unkillable?
    Because besides Scrapper being miles more durable than Reaper with Soul Eater was, that's the only advantage Reaper had.
    But who cares if plenty of other things are "immortal"?

    For PvP, I reached Plat 2 almost exclusively with Reaper for 4 seasons before finally getting tired of being a punching bag that only shines against bad opponents, so I know my way around it a little bit.
    Soul Eater definitely helped, but even with it, Reaper was just way to squishy and lacking re sustain compared to everything else out there.

    If Reaper had gotten 1-3 duration Blocks, an Invuln, plenty Protection, Stability and Condi cleanses on Traits and Weapon skills, plenty fields like water and finishers like blast on half of their weapon/utility skills, then yea, I wouldn't mind sustain nerfs for Reaper, but they don't have any of that.

    Now I actually fully agree with you that sustain from damage is a dangerous thing to add, I just found it ironic that they removed that vital aspect of Reaper while giving it, 3 times as strong, to another profession in the same patch, and it existing 4 times as strong on yet another.

    You also brought up how Invigorating Precision has a Tradeoff of not being an offensive Trait at the same time, missing out on no Quarter, but here's the thing, even with IP both DD and DE still do quite a bit more damage than Reaper (1-3k DPS more), while healing for over 4 times the amount Reaper did with SE.

    Would I rather see a Death and Blood Magic rework, or hell, even a complete Shroud rework to be more like Holo, while overhauling Necros defensive tools to scale like everything else? Absolutely.
    But until then, I wouldn't mind Reaper not feeling terrible again and actually having some half way proper sustain.

    Considering you can't even dare to go Melee as Reaper outside of Shroud and pretty much have to kite with Staff and Axe/Focus unless you want to get CC locked and bursted instantly, the healing out of Shroud if in Melee aspect is pretty worthless.
    The only time you actually benefited from the Trait was when going in for the Melee Cleave burst in Shroud, which was vital to resustain the damage received while trying to kite out of Shroud to not get focused, waiting for the right moment to go in and burst, so you wouldn't instantly drop after exiting Shroud and could resume kiting.

    Otherwise Reaper is just an easily shot down kamikaze plane, and at least for me, that's just not fun anymore, especially in Plat+, because you will get shot down.

    So while I don't like it either, I also don't think it was too strong, and if anything it was needed to make Reaper not feel completely like a one trick burst some noobs pony that completely disintegrated after it's easily avoidable trick.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Asum I'm lazy so cheers for that write up. It's exactly how I feel in Pvp, a 1 trick pony which now has to grow even trickier. Wurm and spectral are looking almost mandatory these days post burst for me soloing anyways.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    It's not that simple. You ignore the fundamental reaper design. The spec is meant to use tanky gear (toughness and vitality - both is a must pick for the spec if you want to win a duell above gold division) while gaining the missing attributes (mainly crit chance and ferocity) through traits to be competitive.

    All three master traits raise the damge somehow! That's the baseline.

    On top of that:

    • Soul eater created a new option for players who don't want to pick tanky gear but raise the self-healing. This option was removed again.
    • Chilling victory is mainly a utility trait for life force generation (condi builds, non GS builds...).
    • Decimate defenses is a crit chance increasing trait to create the option to equip tanky, non-precision gear which makes you less healing dependent.

    These were good alternatives for diferent builds in competitive play and there soul eater has never been a problem. In pve soul eater was clearly overperforming (after 5 minutes of testing everybody could see it).

    So the only logical decision to balance soul eater for pve would have been either a decrease of the healing to 2% (real life best case scenario: 20k dps @ 3 targets = 1.2k healing per second) or remove the aoe and make it only benefit from the main target.

    For anet necro seems to be the most balanced profession in the game. Reaper and scourge were not touched and core was just normalized in cooldowns compared to the elite specs. So they should take the chance to rework blighter's boon and deathly chill to something usefull and true alternatives for different playstyles.

    I am sorry, but how did you reach the conclusion that the spec is meant to use tanky gear? There has been a choice of paladin vs demolisher vs Marauder for a long while now. There is no such thing as "this is what you must use to be competitive". You simply run a mostly offensive amulet with some defensive attributes attached. Now I don't play all the classes in PvP, but I am quite certain pretty much every single build runs some sort of tanky such as toughness and vitality stats. The only ones that don't runs are some sort of meme build. This is not Reaper only.

    Yes in theory all 3 master traits raise damage. However they should do it in different ways and be good/bad in different gamemodes. There are skills and traits that are clearly designed for PvE and vice versa. Soul eater is very much a PvE trait because you need to hit an enemy for a lot of damage for its effect to be truly worth it. By the time you get enough benefit out of it in PvP, that person is already dead. The goal isn't to have all them do something different so you would have a choice. SE was crowding out DD in PvE and did nothing to DD in PvP.

    Soul eater was a false choice. The amount of PvP heal you get from that trait was minimal. This is almost like saying if they nerfed dagger 2 heal, it killed the builds because players can be tanky and now the defense is nerfed. The reality is nobody used dagger mainhand in pvp unless is core necro and soul eater was not a viable choice to replace tanky gear, it is a PvE trait through and through. I know what the other trait do. The poster I responded to was talking about PvE so I responded in PvE where SE beat DD in both areas where as chilling victory has been underperforming for a long time.

    Look at the traits, I just don't understand why you all are asking for sustain buffs on SE when blighter's boon is right there. Shouldn't we try to make the traits that's suppose to sustain in PvP to be good instead of trying to force a PvE trait to be good in PvP? There's blood well trait that people have used for ages to heal in shroud. Why not buff that?

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

    What? Soul eater scaling off only power is part of the reason why is bad for the game, the more damage you dealt the more you healed which why it was problematic in PvE. It was insane how good it was.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    So balance is done on kill speed of open world champions while being essentially unkillable?
    Because besides Scrapper being miles more durable than Reaper with Soul Eater was, that's the only advantage Reaper had.
    But who cares if plenty of other things are "immortal"?

    For PvP, I reached Plat 2 almost exclusively with Reaper for 4 seasons before finally getting tired of being a punching bag that only shines against bad opponents, so I know my way around it a little bit.
    Soul Eater definitely helped, but even with it, Reaper was just way to squishy and lacking re sustain compared to everything else out there.

    If Reaper had gotten 1-3 duration Blocks, an Invuln, plenty Protection, Stability and Condi cleanses on Traits and Weapon skills, plenty fields like water and finishers like blast on half of their weapon/utility skills, then yea, I wouldn't mind sustain nerfs for Reaper, but they don't have any of that.

    Now I actually fully agree with you that sustain from damage is a dangerous thing to add, I just found it ironic that they removed that vital aspect of Reaper while giving it, 3 times as strong, to another profession in the same patch, and it existing 4 times as strong on yet another.

    You also brought up how Invigorating Precision has a Tradeoff of not being an offensive Trait at the same time, missing out on no Quarter, but here's the thing, even with IP both DD and DE still do quite a bit more damage than Reaper (1-3k DPS more), while healing for over 4 times the amount Reaper did with SE.

    Would I rather see a Death and Blood Magic rework, or hell, even a complete Shroud rework to be more like Holo, while overhauling Necros defensive tools to scale like everything else? Absolutely.
    But until then, I wouldn't mind Reaper not feeling terrible again and actually having some half way proper sustain.

    Considering you can't even dare to go Melee as Reaper outside of Shroud and pretty much have to kite with Staff and Axe/Focus unless you want to get CC locked and bursted instantly, the healing out of Shroud if in Melee aspect is pretty worthless.
    The only time you actually benefited from the Trait was when going in for the Melee Cleave burst in Shroud, which was vital to resustain the damage received while trying to kite out of Shroud to not get focused, waiting for the right moment to go in and burst, so you wouldn't instantly drop after exiting Shroud and could resume kiting.

    Otherwise Reaper is just an easily shot down kamikaze plane, and at least for me, that's just not fun anymore, especially in Plat+, because you will get shot down.

    So while I don't like it either, I also don't think it was too strong, and if anything it was needed to make Reaper not feel completely like a one trick burst some noobs pony that completely disintegrated after it's easily avoidable trick.

    Mate, you are the one who brought up the open world comparison trying to solo champions. Then of course I think you are talking about open world in terms of balance. So if we are still talking about open world here, Reaper's advantage has always been is ability to self buff and output damage without support, thats THE advantage. There is a reason why Reaper has been suggested to be played in open world by practically everybody while classes like Scrappers are not. So since you are the one who brought open world, I think you care about how classes perform in PvE.

    You are in plat? Great! I am in plat as well playing nothing but reaper since HoT. I started playing with frostfire, went through condi reaper after the nerf on chill damage, then blood well reaper with chrono runes and eventually to today. I played necro since base game when the common build was signet corrupting boons all the way to the current day. Granted I would never say I am good at PvP because the population is tiny these days. You can queue into silver teammates and face naru if you get "lucky", but hopefully this is enough of experience to offer some insight.

    If you seriously think SE nerf is worth 1-3 duration blocks, an Invuln, plenty Protection, Stability and Condi cleanses on Traits and Weapon skills. Then I don't know what to tell you. If you played reaper, then you should know that it is a good class in PvP. Not meta, but good. You REALLY do not want the class itself to be like holosmith where it does everything. People has been asking for a blanket nerf on every single elite spec for years now. What you want is the complete opposite. Reaper is not a dueling class, it is a teamfight class. Ironically it's strongest counter is scourge because they share a similar role. If Scourge were to never exist then Reaper would have taken it's spot. If you want all those sustain buffs, then there has to be massive trade offs for example they would only exist in death magic so you cannot stack SR + Spite, or compete with onslaught.

    In PvP yes, the healing out of shroud is fairly worthless. But it is also worthless IN shroud because you do maybe 20k damage in shroud if you are lucky. Congratulations you just healed 1000 hp. I have seen no situations where the healing from SE alone in shroud allow you to give you sustain for more than half a hit. If you are being focused, having 1000 more hp is not what saves you. You are better off taking blood with wells, hell chilling victory would probably have been better than SE if that is what you want. It is a false choice is my point. The amount of healing you get from SE is vastly overstated in PvP and is more a placebo effect than anything else. That trait is not what allowed you to not live through fights. You are better off taking DD in pretty much every case.

    No I don't think it is too strong in PvP. This is for the most part a PvE trait due to it's reliance on hitting enemies with big hp bars. I think is mediocre at best and useless at worst. It's effect is extremely overstated and the existence of that trait has brought 0 variety to reaper play style. You played no differently than before. You still get focused and you still try to kite. Enter teams in a good timing and try to burst down, nothing has changed because the effect is tiny. If you want Reaper to not be a completely one trick burst, then you need to nerf it's burst so the defense can be buffed. Not trying to maintain the damage while trying to add to it's defenses. Buff blighter's boon, buff chilling victory, buff relentless pursuit, buff death magic. We have enough overpowered builds in PvP, let's not add one more especially considering how volatile reaper's power level is depending on elo.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

    What? Soul eater scaling off only power is part of the reason why is bad for the game, the more damage you dealt the more you healed which why it was problematic in PvE. It was insane how good it was.

    To attempt to answer multiple points - Necromancer is naturally tanky, and Reaper came with the shout “rise” that further increases survivability, these do not mean you “need” to use tanky gear, however if you choose to you would be a LOT tankier than a lot of other things.

    Following on from that if you wanted to get the most healing from soul eater you would need to maximise damage which would be a different build to mega tanky, just because you can heal a lot of health - in 360 range - does not make you unkillable, especially with tge lack of necromancer mobility ( it has 1 mobility skill that can be used on demand, and another which requires you to place a minion ) so it is really easy to counter melee range, soul eater has no effect past 360 (might only be 300), so how was it bad for the game? It has really obvious counter including cc in melee range, blinds etc.

    TL;DR. : Reaper is a Melee Focused Caster spec from the Tankiest Caster so will naturally be classed as Tanky, using tanky stats makes sense as much as Damage stats due to how Reaper “is”, however healing in shroud would allow Reaper freedom to be squishier in exchange for damage, since then a Necromancer could Balance Life and Death (Health and Death Shroud) which fits their theme.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

    What? Soul eater scaling off only power is part of the reason why is bad for the game, the more damage you dealt the more you healed which why it was problematic in PvE. It was insane how good it was.

    To attempt to answer multiple points - Necromancer is naturally tanky, and Reaper came with the shout “rise” that further increases survivability, these do not mean you “need” to use tanky gear, however if you choose to you would be a LOT tankier than a lot of other things.

    Following on from that if you wanted to get the most healing from soul eater you would need to maximise damage which would be a different build to mega tanky, just because you can heal a lot of health - in 360 range - does not make you unkillable, especially with tge lack of necromancer mobility ( it has 1 mobility skill that can be used on demand, and another which requires you to place a minion ) so it is really easy to counter melee range, soul eater has no effect past 360 (might only be 300), so how was it bad for the game? It has really obvious counter including cc in melee range, blinds etc.

    TL;DR. : Reaper is a Melee Focused Caster spec from the Tankiest Caster so will naturally be classed as Tanky, using tanky stats makes sense as much as Damage stats due to how Reaper “is”, however healing in shroud would allow Reaper freedom to be squishier in exchange for damage, since then a Necromancer could Balance Life and Death (Health and Death Shroud) which fits their theme.

    Are you talking about PvE or PvP? Nobody uses rise in PvP and if is PvE overworld then Reaper has universally been one of the strongest build there. The other poster was talking about PvP where one of the popular amulet choice is the paladin amulet. I am really confused here and my responses will be different if you could clarify which area of the game you are talking about. Mobility means practically nothing in PvE so I assume you are talking about PvP. Then you are talking about how Reaper is tanky and necro is the most obvious focus target in PvP than pretty much every other class unless is a Firebrand that you can spike down. So I am not exactly sure what you are talking about as neither fits.

  • Documental.5946Documental.5946 Member ✭✭
    edited August 5, 2019

    for/10char

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

    What? Soul eater scaling off only power is part of the reason why is bad for the game, the more damage you dealt the more you healed which why it was problematic in PvE. It was insane how good it was.

    To attempt to answer multiple points - Necromancer is naturally tanky, and Reaper came with the shout “rise” that further increases survivability, these do not mean you “need” to use tanky gear, however if you choose to you would be a LOT tankier than a lot of other things.

    Following on from that if you wanted to get the most healing from soul eater you would need to maximise damage which would be a different build to mega tanky, just because you can heal a lot of health - in 360 range - does not make you unkillable, especially with tge lack of necromancer mobility ( it has 1 mobility skill that can be used on demand, and another which requires you to place a minion ) so it is really easy to counter melee range, soul eater has no effect past 360 (might only be 300), so how was it bad for the game? It has really obvious counter including cc in melee range, blinds etc.

    TL;DR. : Reaper is a Melee Focused Caster spec from the Tankiest Caster so will naturally be classed as Tanky, using tanky stats makes sense as much as Damage stats due to how Reaper “is”, however healing in shroud would allow Reaper freedom to be squishier in exchange for damage, since then a Necromancer could Balance Life and Death (Health and Death Shroud) which fits their theme.

    Are you talking about PvE or PvP? Nobody uses rise in PvP and if is PvE overworld then Reaper has universally been one of the strongest build there. The other poster was talking about PvP where one of the popular amulet choice is the paladin amulet. I am really confused here and my responses will be different if you could clarify which area of the game you are talking about. Mobility means practically nothing in PvE so I assume you are talking about PvP. Then you are talking about how Reaper is tanky and necro is the most obvious focus target in PvP than pretty much every other class unless is a Firebrand that you can spike down. So I am not exactly sure what you are talking about as neither fits.

    I was vague as I was referring to both pvp and pve, just because “no-one uses rise in pvp” doesn’t mean it doesn't exist in pvp.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud

    You would almost think that by saying it yourself, you could figure it out.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    The problem there is “lifesteal” and actual lifesteal are different. “Lifesteal” heals based on healing power with damage based on power, while soul eater was only power.

    What? Soul eater scaling off only power is part of the reason why is bad for the game, the more damage you dealt the more you healed which why it was problematic in PvE. It was insane how good it was.

    To attempt to answer multiple points - Necromancer is naturally tanky, and Reaper came with the shout “rise” that further increases survivability, these do not mean you “need” to use tanky gear, however if you choose to you would be a LOT tankier than a lot of other things.

    Following on from that if you wanted to get the most healing from soul eater you would need to maximise damage which would be a different build to mega tanky, just because you can heal a lot of health - in 360 range - does not make you unkillable, especially with tge lack of necromancer mobility ( it has 1 mobility skill that can be used on demand, and another which requires you to place a minion ) so it is really easy to counter melee range, soul eater has no effect past 360 (might only be 300), so how was it bad for the game? It has really obvious counter including cc in melee range, blinds etc.

    TL;DR. : Reaper is a Melee Focused Caster spec from the Tankiest Caster so will naturally be classed as Tanky, using tanky stats makes sense as much as Damage stats due to how Reaper “is”, however healing in shroud would allow Reaper freedom to be squishier in exchange for damage, since then a Necromancer could Balance Life and Death (Health and Death Shroud) which fits their theme.

    Are you talking about PvE or PvP? Nobody uses rise in PvP and if is PvE overworld then Reaper has universally been one of the strongest build there. The other poster was talking about PvP where one of the popular amulet choice is the paladin amulet. I am really confused here and my responses will be different if you could clarify which area of the game you are talking about. Mobility means practically nothing in PvE so I assume you are talking about PvP. Then you are talking about how Reaper is tanky and necro is the most obvious focus target in PvP than pretty much every other class unless is a Firebrand that you can spike down. So I am not exactly sure what you are talking about as neither fits.

    I was vague as I was referring to both pvp and pve, just because “no-one uses rise in pvp” doesn’t mean it doesn't exist in pvp.

    The reason why I want to know clarification is because PvP and PvE for the most part are very very different games. You are basically using PvP reasons trying to argue for PvE and that makes no sense at all. Different game modes have completely different requirements and skills. Naturally Tanky in PvE does not mean tanky in PvP and high damage in PvP does not mean high damage in PvE. So no, please don't be vague. When trying to post please explain as to which area of the game you are talking about. Because if not, you might as well be trying to say that power herald is underpowered in PvE and unable to perform its role, therefore its damage should be increased including PvP. The two game modes are two different things mate.

    As for rise, it might as well does not exist in PvP. It is a bad skill because active defense is better than passive defense in PvP. You might as well trying to argue that necro is tanky because well of darkness is a pulsing blind field. The fact is that nobody uses it because is bad, therefore taking it as part of your argument for balancing is pointless.

    Bit of side note on tanky stats. Sustain is what makes you unkillable in PvE, tanky is what makes you not get one shot which necro doesn't care about because your base defense is already the highest in the game. So why would you build defense? Just because it scales better does not mean you build it when the goal of PvE is to kill things as fast as you can. Why else do you think that when people want defense in PvE, the suggestions have always been taking sustain traits like invigorating precision on thieve and adrenal health on warrior but never you take sentinel gear to be more tanky? That is why. Also please, if there is one area of the game that Reaper is good at, is open world PvE. So let's not think about that in terms of balance.

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wait, does this work? It shouldn't as the boons don't come from necro itself.
    But even if, blighter boon gets heavily overshadowed by reapers onslaught. Without that trait, you hit like a wet noodle and on top of that, hit super slow, so even a crippled and slowed enemy can prevent dmg from the attacks...

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

    I think he is talking about the might gained from being hit whilst you have a fire aura. I'm not an expert on how auras work however, so I can't say whether aura effects are dictated to by the player that granted or the player who it is applied to.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • jalmari.3906jalmari.3906 Member ✭✭

    Soul reaper nerf was kinda not asked for?? Not that I care even if I main reaper but don't really think it was that strong, mostly used to run other traits from that tree.

    They already kinda went into strange direction when they tried to "nerf" scourge but they actually nerfed reaper and core builds that relied on blind and chill. I am going to be mad about it forever. Core power necro was kind of semi competively playable before that which is funny. Now they're "buffing" core necro but all they do is think about that one staff spamming build and shaft everything else so yeaahh…

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

    I think he is talking about the might gained from being hit whilst you have a fire aura. I'm not an expert on how auras work however, so I can't say whether aura effects are dictated to by the player that granted or the player who it is applied to.

    Ah, That does bring up the question though, if someone applies an aura is the duration of might on your Your boon dur or their boon dur, I feel like this needs testing.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @jalmari.3906 said:
    Soul reaper nerf was kinda not asked for?? Not that I care even if I main reaper but don't really think it was that strong, mostly used to run other traits from that tree.

    They already kinda went into strange direction when they tried to "nerf" scourge but they actually nerfed reaper and core builds that relied on blind and chill. I am going to be mad about it forever. Core power necro was kind of semi competively playable before that which is funny. Now they're "buffing" core necro but all they do is think about that one staff spamming build and shaft everything else so yeaahh…

    After testing a few things, And Honestly never noticing the 5% healing, It's 300 range, "too survivable" Have they ever heard of a Longbow ranger? 4k a hit vs like, 600 healing a hit.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    You mentioned Necromancer being inherently tanky. This is a fundamental misconception of the profession.

    Yes, Necromancer has higher base health and, in the simplest terms, a second health bar but that does not make the profession tanky.

    Necro was also designed with specific strengths and weaknesses (in 2012.)
    Strengths:

    • A solid array of condition output and control
    • Pets, lots of pets, more than Ranger
    • Fields, lots of combo fields
    • AoE was also a highlight of the profession
    • Shroud is a fast-CD damage mitigation skill available on all builds... ALL builds

    To balance this OP offensive support class, the dev's baked in some critical vulnerabilities.
    Weaknesses:

    • Low single target dps and burst potential
    • No finishers on a dps build and almost none at all
    • Shroud requires charging (LF gen) and the LF pool must be managed.
    • Shroud is not a true invulnerability skill as it does not offer a fixed duration of invulnerability and it's duration can easily be reduced so it does not scale
    • Necro is highly susceptible to control effects - there were few stun breaks and no stability outside of elite transforms
    • Necro has maybe three mobility skills for each specialization and none on weapons

    Necro was not designed to be tanky but was given more health on its first and second health pools to survive its weaknesses. If people consider only the health and LF pools, they will draw the wrong conclusion. For much of it's history, Necro was one of the least survivable professions and was nerfed into oblivion in PvE by the introduction of Unshakable.

    No other profession comes close to losing as much health in combat as Necro. That is why it has so much.

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

    I think he is talking about the might gained from being hit whilst you have a fire aura. I'm not an expert on how auras work however, so I can't say whether aura effects are dictated to by the player that granted or the player who it is applied to.

    Ah, That does bring up the question though, if someone applies an aura is the duration of might on your Your boon dur or their boon dur, I feel like this needs testing.

    Yeah it works I used to use blighters boon on glass necro when we still had speed of shadows with recharge. the auras work so that the boons are your own remember the first light aura retal and vulnerability to foes struck any aura that provides a boon works with blighters boon it was Very fun while it lasted but the idea is to get anet to normalize the reaper shroud cast times so tht we dont need the agility or move the agility to another trait like relentless pursuit because right now that trait does not help me chase anyone down like they devs claimed it to be some movie horror chase thing lol.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    You mentioned Necromancer being inherently tanky. This is a fundamental misconception of the profession.

    Yes, Necromancer has higher base health and, in the simplest terms, a second health bar but that does not make the profession tanky.

    Necro was also designed with specific strengths and weaknesses (in 2012.)
    Strengths:

    • A solid array of condition output and control
    • Pets, lots of pets, more than Ranger
    • Fields, lots of combo fields
    • AoE was also a highlight of the profession
    • Shroud is a fast-CD damage mitigation skill available on all builds... ALL builds

    To balance this OP offensive support class, the dev's baked in some critical vulnerabilities.
    Weaknesses:

    • Low single target dps and burst potential
    • No finishers on a dps build and almost none at all
    • Shroud requires charging (LF gen) and the LF pool must be managed.
    • Shroud is not a true invulnerability skill as it does not offer a fixed duration of invulnerability and it's duration can easily be reduced so it does not scale
    • Necro is highly susceptible to control effects - there were few stun breaks and no stability outside of elite transforms
    • Necro has maybe three mobility skills for each specialization and none on weapons

    Necro was not designed to be tanky but was given more health on its first and second health pools to survive its weaknesses. If people consider only the health and LF pools, they will draw the wrong conclusion. For much of it's history, Necro was one of the least survivable professions and was nerfed into oblivion in PvE by the introduction of Unshakable.

    No other profession comes close to losing as much health in combat as Necro. That is why it has so much.

    I am aware necromancer has no “damage reduction” outside of shroud, but it is still at base the “tankiest caster” with highest health, Necromancer is like Blissey, loads of health but if you punch it, it dies.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

    I think he is talking about the might gained from being hit whilst you have a fire aura. I'm not an expert on how auras work however, so I can't say whether aura effects are dictated to by the player that granted or the player who it is applied to.

    Ah, That does bring up the question though, if someone applies an aura is the duration of might on your Your boon dur or their boon dur, I feel like this needs testing.

    Yeah it works I used to use blighters boon on glass necro when we still had speed of shadows with recharge. the auras work so that the boons are your own remember the first light aura retal and vulnerability to foes struck any aura that provides a boon works with blighters boon it was Very fun while it lasted but the idea is to get anet to normalize the reaper shroud cast times so tht we dont need the agility or move the agility to another trait like relentless pursuit because right now that trait does not help me chase anyone down like they devs claimed it to be some movie horror chase thing lol.

    I suppose an issue there is you have to be hit consistently for boons to apply, and have the aura on.

  • Xervite.5493Xervite.5493 Member ✭✭

    The amount of people who qq and think reaper cant sustain while in shroud is absurd. A heal signet called signet of vampirism exists along with signet of suffering trait in spite which allows you to heal when struck while in shroud. Granted that some sustain was lost but not all is lost so calm down fellas.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    Another balance patch, another day spent laughing at people screaming about necromancers while I continue to play, enjoy, and succeed in the areas I choose to play in as my necromancer I've played since the start of the game.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    The amount of people who qq and think reaper cant sustain while in shroud is absurd. A heal signet called signet of vampirism exists along with signet of suffering trait in spite which allows you to heal when struck while in shroud. Granted that some sustain was lost but not all is lost so calm down fellas.

    People forget there was a class here somewhere that didn't rely on OP'ed Shroud heals from SE only just 4 months ago. I guess it's super convenient to forget that to complain that the change wasn't reasonable.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Morde.3158 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    With blighters boon slotted a ele can give the reaper auras that allot of heal potential with fire aura and others that give boons just wanted to put that out there we have anything we need for sustain anet just needs to change it and be done with it.

    Wiki: Gain life force when you apply a boon to yourself. If you are in reaper's shroud, gain health instead. - Sadly it only applies to SELF boons.

    I think he is talking about the might gained from being hit whilst you have a fire aura. I'm not an expert on how auras work however, so I can't say whether aura effects are dictated to by the player that granted or the player who it is applied to.

    Ah, That does bring up the question though, if someone applies an aura is the duration of might on your Your boon dur or their boon dur, I feel like this needs testing.

    Yeah it works I used to use blighters boon on glass necro when we still had speed of shadows with recharge. the auras work so that the boons are your own remember the first light aura retal and vulnerability to foes struck any aura that provides a boon works with blighters boon it was Very fun while it lasted but the idea is to get anet to normalize the reaper shroud cast times so tht we dont need the agility or move the agility to another trait like relentless pursuit because right now that trait does not help me chase anyone down like they devs claimed it to be some movie horror chase thing lol.

    I suppose an issue there is you have to be hit consistently for boons to apply, and have the aura on.

    Indeed but its not hard to get hit in wvw haha

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    The amount of people who qq and think reaper cant sustain while in shroud is absurd. A heal signet called signet of vampirism exists along with signet of suffering trait in spite which allows you to heal when struck while in shroud. Granted that some sustain was lost but not all is lost so calm down fellas.

    Great, we have to take one of the worst (maybe the worst) healing skill to get healing in shroud and in addition waste an trait, to make it somewhat better, even though,. Both other trait options are like 300times better.

    That's bull....

    And what does it give you?
    Flat dmg reduction, that only procs once per second.
    When every class is able to 100-0 you in 2-3 seconds.

    Let's assume an 4k, 6k and 8k hit. With 400 heal on hit taken
    4k: 10% dmg reduction, that can only occurs once every second
    6k: 7,5% dmg reduction
    8k: 5% dmg reduction

    Literally every class is power crept and tries to burst, and is able to burst. Many of them do 20-30k burst.
    That's on average 800/25000= 3% dmg reduction which is pretty bad.
    (Assuming the burst occurs in 2 seconds)

    Not to mention, that using the other signets is a waste of utilities as well. Because they do nothing better than your other possible utility skills.

    Condi remove? Use consume conditions and spectral walk
    Stun break? Is on the same skill as condi remove, not so good, having to choose between both
    Extra power? - use sigil of bloodlust. Also: why is the active of the passive power signet a Condi active
    Movespeed? Use rune that gives movespeed.
    Lifeforce gen? Not having an active use

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    I think alot of contributors are either alt necros or havent been on the full journey as alot of us have. They read tooltips and put 1 and 1 together without truly being invested and looking at the nuances in play.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    I think alot of contributors are either alt necros or havent been on the full journey as alot of us have. They read tooltips and put 1 and 1 together without truly being invested and looking at the nuances in play.

    Honestly going to agree with this. It seems like a lot of complaining just to complain, while I'm happily moving ahead on my necro without any troubles despite all these whines I see about the class being ruined/nerfed to hell and unplayable.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    You mentioned Necromancer being inherently tanky. This is a fundamental misconception of the profession.

    Yes, Necromancer has higher base health and, in the simplest terms, a second health bar but that does not make the profession tanky.

    Necro was also designed with specific strengths and weaknesses (in 2012.)
    Strengths:

    • A solid array of condition output and control
    • Pets, lots of pets, more than Ranger
    • Fields, lots of combo fields
    • AoE was also a highlight of the profession
    • Shroud is a fast-CD damage mitigation skill available on all builds... ALL builds

    To balance this OP offensive support class, the dev's baked in some critical vulnerabilities.
    Weaknesses:

    • Low single target dps and burst potential
    • No finishers on a dps build and almost none at all
    • Shroud requires charging (LF gen) and the LF pool must be managed.
    • Shroud is not a true invulnerability skill as it does not offer a fixed duration of invulnerability and it's duration can easily be reduced so it does not scale
    • Necro is highly susceptible to control effects - there were few stun breaks and no stability outside of elite transforms
    • Necro has maybe three mobility skills for each specialization and none on weapons

    Necro was not designed to be tanky but was given more health on its first and second health pools to survive its weaknesses. If people consider only the health and LF pools, they will draw the wrong conclusion. For much of it's history, Necro was one of the least survivable professions and was nerfed into oblivion in PvE by the introduction of Unshakable.

    No other profession comes close to losing as much health in combat as Necro. That is why it has so much.

    I am aware necromancer has no “damage reduction” outside of shroud, but it is still at base the “tankiest caster” with highest health, Necromancer is like Blissey, loads of health but if you punch it, it dies.

    Please read what you wrote and explain how, "... if you punch it, it dies," defines tanky. Also, Necro was designed to require two punches to kill it, unlike Mesmer and Elementalist but both of those professions have far more mobility and/or immunity skills. Which light armor profession is it that tanks in raids?

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    The amount of people who qq and think reaper cant sustain while in shroud is absurd. A heal signet called signet of vampirism exists along with signet of suffering trait in spite which allows you to heal when struck while in shroud. Granted that some sustain was lost but not all is lost so calm down fellas.

    People forget there was a class here somewhere that didn't rely on OP'ed Shroud heals from SE only just 4 months ago. I guess it's super convenient to forget that to complain that the change wasn't reasonable.

    Most of those are the ones that want their damage, sustain, and their mobility to tower over everything else. they don't understand that, at this point in time things NEED nerfs, not buffs. gotta kill that powercreep. reaper is still good, especially with spinal shivers, both main proc and lesser. they both still chunk a hefty portion out of your health when procced. also, reapers still reach high might rather easily so they can dish out a ton of damage while in the protection of shroud.

    but i guess most people who plays things that doesn't involve skill to be optimal and effective will gripe about well deserved nerfs. oh well.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    You mentioned Necromancer being inherently tanky. This is a fundamental misconception of the profession.

    Yes, Necromancer has higher base health and, in the simplest terms, a second health bar but that does not make the profession tanky.

    Necro was also designed with specific strengths and weaknesses (in 2012.)
    Strengths:

    • A solid array of condition output and control
    • Pets, lots of pets, more than Ranger
    • Fields, lots of combo fields
    • AoE was also a highlight of the profession
    • Shroud is a fast-CD damage mitigation skill available on all builds... ALL builds

    To balance this OP offensive support class, the dev's baked in some critical vulnerabilities.
    Weaknesses:

    • Low single target dps and burst potential
    • No finishers on a dps build and almost none at all
    • Shroud requires charging (LF gen) and the LF pool must be managed.
    • Shroud is not a true invulnerability skill as it does not offer a fixed duration of invulnerability and it's duration can easily be reduced so it does not scale
    • Necro is highly susceptible to control effects - there were few stun breaks and no stability outside of elite transforms
    • Necro has maybe three mobility skills for each specialization and none on weapons

    Necro was not designed to be tanky but was given more health on its first and second health pools to survive its weaknesses. If people consider only the health and LF pools, they will draw the wrong conclusion. For much of it's history, Necro was one of the least survivable professions and was nerfed into oblivion in PvE by the introduction of Unshakable.

    No other profession comes close to losing as much health in combat as Necro. That is why it has so much.

    I am aware necromancer has no “damage reduction” outside of shroud, but it is still at base the “tankiest caster” with highest health, Necromancer is like Blissey, loads of health but if you punch it, it dies.

    Please read what you wrote and explain how, "... if you punch it, it dies," defines tanky. Also, Necro was designed to require two punches to kill it, unlike Mesmer and Elementalist but both of those professions have far more mobility and/or immunity skills. Which light armor profession is it that tanks in raids?

    I am not counting Elite Specs when saying tanking, Especially since Necromancer and Ele cannot naturally use shields in any spec, core Necro is tankier, but has low mitigation is what I tried to say, as the tanky aspect could just as easily be replaced by thief because they can heal and evade and block if we say the damage mitigation makes them tanky. I should also clarify that this depends on which tanky you use, the Tanky - draw aggro - whoch necromancers coincidentally do a LOT in pvp/wvw, Tanky as in Unkillable, or Tanky as in Slow juggernaught-y.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

    Right, because it was overpowered and encouraged an incredibly lazy way to play the game in PvE. You could literally just facetank in raid, get down to 20% hp and not care about anything in the world because you can just hop back in shroud and heal back in pretty much 3 seconds. No it is not optimal, but it is basically saying you are now invincible and can do whatever you want which is something terrible to encourage.

    It's impact in PvP and WvW is minimal because is a side upgrade at best because DD remains to be better. If you want sustain then do you know what they should buff? Death magic and blighter's boon, hell why not blood magic too for certain options. It really shouldn't be attaching sustain to an offense trait.

    Necromancers can not be healed in shroud by druids, tempests or anything not minor health regen from grandmaster traits. Having a way to heal in shroud - and then removing it because “it was too survivable” shows the bad idea having two healthbars is.

    All it does is showing how much life stealing is if your character optimizes for damage. Have you never played a thief with invigorating precision? You practically never died just like reaper with soul eater. The difference for them however is that they would have to give up no quarter. This trait would have been perfectly fine if this is competing with something like Onslaught. What happened simply was that it is by far the best damage option AND the defensive option while pretty up giving up almost nothing. If there's competition then it would have worked fine, but ultimately it just gave the class what is practically invincibility and gave up nothing else.

    Note that you are crossing a medium armor profession with a light armor profession
    Also note that thief has evades and necro is evade limited
    Also note that you are comparing a core trait to a Xpack Trait which requires spending money to own. which in almost all cases the HoT and PoF traits are better than core traits no matter which professions you cross reference.

    Ideally your comparison here is not a good one. While i get what you are trying to say you are leaving out a few key things.

    Ideally while the new soul eater did not compete with chilling victory before its change it did compete but its effects were minor and more importantly they were not active in shroud.

    Next lets remember that Soul eater is only active within 300 rangel meaning the reaper must be in the face of danger without escapes and hard sustain such as evades, invulns, blinks, stealth. etc. to gain its benefits. IF this was not the case I might allow the comparison of this trait to one challenging something like Reapers Onslaught but certainly not it is not worth the weight of a grand master to compete with RO. Because we get right back to square one of why we cant have damage or be healed by others in shroud in end game content and to take self healing would require a massive dps loss which will not be accepted in end game raids (power reaper is already riding the line of viability as it is. A dps loss from critical hits and attack speed is unacceptable at the moment.

    If you want to compare Invigorating precision to a healing trait in necros kit you should be looking to something like the core blood magic line and asking why the traits vampiric and vampiric aura do not provide small % healing based on damage done and why they instead work on healing power which people do not take in power builds. Even when you do the scaling is very very very minor and the healing gained its dropplets of hp that add up to maybe a few hundred hp over pretty long durations (not good)

    Lastly you should think about how Invigorating precision would be if it healed you in the same manner as Vampiric or Vamp Aura and was based on a stat like healing power instead of critical damage done. To understand why people are frustrated you need to first understand the undermined mess that is necormancer.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

    Because a complete overhaul is less likely to happen than minor adjustments. And even less an overhaul following player suggestions.
    It might have been possible with a dedicated balance team that communicates with their players. Look at the reality: we are facing a wall. Asking for slight adjustments is already hard to get some changes. So asking more is just a dream...

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

    People were on board with a major Necro rework (and made elaborate suggestion posts for Anet) since a year after launch, and the year after that.. and the year after that.. and the year after that..
    I think a lot of people have just realised that that's not going to be happening.

    Even with more minor reworks of Traitlines and such, I can't imagine a more worthwhile target than Necromancer, especially Death Magic and Blood Magic, yet even though Anet has been addressing profession after profession more or less successfully, Necro has been skipped over and over again.

    Most minor adjustments have either been Scourge nerfs or Reaper buffnerfs until it became a half decent DPS over the course of over 3 years of small changes, something that should have been accomplished in one or two patches.
    All the while every single core problem of Necromancer has been left unaddressed since launch day.

    Getting even the slightest adjustment for Necromancer out of Anet is all anyone can hope for at this point, while hoping it won't accidentally be a nerf.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

    Because a complete overhaul is less likely to happen than minor adjustments. And even less an overhaul following player suggestions.
    It might have been possible with a dedicated balance team that communicates with their players. Look at the reality: we are facing a wall. Asking for slight adjustments is already hard to get some changes. So asking more is just a dream...

    Reaper is a power-AoE spec with an option for condi-AoE. If you want a tank-spec, are you willing to drop the dps or the AoE to get that?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

    Because a complete overhaul is less likely to happen than minor adjustments. And even less an overhaul following player suggestions.
    It might have been possible with a dedicated balance team that communicates with their players. Look at the reality: we are facing a wall. Asking for slight adjustments is already hard to get some changes. So asking more is just a dream...

    Reaper is a power-AoE spec with an option for condi-AoE. If you want a tank-spec, are you willing to drop the dps or the AoE to get that?

    Why should we drop something, that other classes get for free?

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    All I can say is that I want this back.

    A DPS cooldowns should be DPS cooldowns. Sustain cooldowns should be sustain cooldowns.

    Without it, the bandaid helped a lot. It allowed me to DPS more, and contribute more. Even using it as a full DPS cooldown, we are not close to top DPS. Perhaps the best option is really buffing GS. That would help a lot.

    I know this is a "me" thing, but I don't get why people don't like my Idea of a Complete Necromancer overhaul, I did my idea for the weapons and the traits corresponding to the weapons, but People seemed to hate my idea. I had made greatsword into a more Tank-ish thing where you would have a beam that would apply taunt but not let the enemy attack so it'd be like a Pull but a channelled pull.

    I merely said no because I thought it would be impossible to get people to agree with it.

    I hd a feeling some folks would protest a full plus I think we don't need complete overhaul just a overhaul of the defensives. Reaper is pretty solid, but for instance I think we should have to take cores to have sustain like some other classes where the elites are stronger but the core traits sustain them and are strong and add something. Ele has stuff like that, and I heard that guardian was pretty good about that, so why not necro?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

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