Mbelch.9028

Why do you post something before taking look at the facts?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain Ok, an extra second to charge, cant remember the dmg spike thoughhe gives the biggest hit, fore every 5k crit I got on mantra I got hits for 600.Its one of thse things where X class being mesmer Has good this this and that, and other want it gone.But they dont wanna give us Y and Z that other classes have. They are content with making mes worse and worse.I was content playing chrono in pvp mate, but the nerfs push us to more stupid and stupid builds.Nobody mentions that half the kitten traits and abilities are so unreliable that even when you land them then they still can whiff.ExAmPlEsS.Gs2 -> it can just bounce to allies/pets/clones and just hit once.Gs4 -> sword can just miss, and berserker just clip you for 2hits without dodging dealing almost no damageTHen even dmg modifiers like dmg on vulnerability can be cleansed, complex is under 50% and on crit only, then there is 5% when you have more hp -> again unreliable.The only way to proc all these traits and to force them to work is to actually stun and 1shot. mantra of pain is one of the most single handed broken offensive utilities in the game, always has been. Mantra power chrono was significantly more brain dead to play than current core mantra mesmer - I hate the changes they did to chrono shatters but the damage modifiers from slow and the synergy with MoD/MoP was free, low skill, instant cast high damage You instantly assumed I played chrono 1shot build, good way to make you look dumb.As I said, take away good stuff dont fix the bad stuff.Propose reasonable nerfs to fix the issue.Propose reasonable buffs to fix the issue. "You instantly assumed I played chrono 1shot build" The reason I assumed you played chrono one shot was due to your instant defensive take to defend MoP, which historically is always the stance of low tier mesmers who like "meme" killing actual good players with low counterplay 1 shots and thinking theyre good for doing so. With that said, the only other relevant chrono build in recent memory that used MoP was the chrono bunker build, which was still a low skill build that was hard carried by MoP (and Chaos trait line) for all the same reasons, it gave it relevant, spammable, low counterplay damage to force CDs adequately with the added benefit of procing restorative mantras every 2 seconds for massive Hp/s. Now, ill humor you. Core power mes is fine as a build, I dont even see (any) mesmer builds as a problematic from a comp/high tier perspective for say mATs since the most recent patch. So specifically the issues people have arent from a top tier perspective and/or are from a counter play/anti fun perspective. With that said, one of the lowest counter play, anti fun things that brings power mesmer damage over the top is - Mantra of pain. Power core mes and power mirage do not one shot meta/near meta builds at all without mantra of pain (might stacks + 2 charges) - So it is an obvious thing to target in my opinion. I think the stealth is, while potentially annoying, a lesser factor since its not going to influence much in conquest and core mesmer already has limited survivability after the first 15 or so seconds of a fight. "Propose reasonable nerfs to fix the issue. Propose reasonable buffs to fix the issue." Slightly hypocritical when your initial post in this thread was only an attempt to devalue my post, and youve added no actual suggestions yourself. You have just provided some minor anecdotal accounts for why you feel like power mesmer is fine. Im not going to sit here and dismiss what youve posted but I dont think your accounts assume optimal or near optimal play (since you mention missing abilities... that arent that hard to land consistently, especially given the tools mesmer has to setup effective damage). Now I didnt elaborate fully on my reasoning for "delete mantra of pain" in my initial post but there is still ample evidence in that original post that I would assume most intelligent folk could put together that the skill does too much for little cost and little risk - It is extremely bloated. "Its often easier to attack the person than it is to debate what they have to say." - You attacked the incorrect minor mistake in mantra channel time, instead of attempting to understand the thesis of my original post. To continue humoring you - Mantra of pain is conceptually broken. You could "fix" it in two potential ways; Nerf the numbers into oblivion (pvp/pve split) Reduce the might stacks, and damage it does. Essentially removing it from viability - Easy to execute, good outcome for game play, trash outcome for the skill (its useless). Rework how the damage is delivered; IE mantra of pain is now a projectile or it works like it currently does but has a delayed effect similar to scourge shades that have a small aoe ring that fills out before the damage lands (Allowing counter play). In this option it still greatly nerfs 1 shot builds due to the (obvious) telegraph but builds that existed like the previously mentioned bunker chrono would have still benefited from MoP working like this, since it would still provide the consistent damage and healing. (If they ever did re work how mantras apply their damage/effect they should do the same to mantra of distraction since people have similar complaints about the low counter play) Random side note; Chrono once was (post bunker chrono) a really fun, rewarding, high skill cap, high floor spec to play and it has been reduced to an abomination spec that feels horrible to play, and for who knows what reasons. But to save myself time ill just quote myself; "I have been consistent with what ive always preached, that is, changing the "feel" of classes that a lot of people have grown to love over a period of 7 years while failing to address the specific desirable outcome is a kitten shame. change is good, and understandable when it makes a difference and reaches the desired outcome. Its just too bad historically thats not been the case from the view of a lot of the people I play with and speak to - Which leads to resentment."There's literally no arguing with this ^/thread.

Yay -- this makes me want to play a bit more.

wow I've finally read a mm fix that makes sense. this team mmr only works if there are actual teams. Yeah, there's definitely still issues here. You only need 1 person to cap or neut a point. So if there is conditional logic in the algorithm, it might work, as in "Player 1 steps on point to decap it. No enemy is around. Player 1 is slated to get + 1 point. Player 2 comes to join on decap for no good reason. No enemy is around. Player 2 steps on point, and gets -1 point due to negative team play." Conversely, the same scenario with enemy players around, player 2 would either get a +1 or stay flat depending on the situation. It's too difficult to write all the scenarios in my mind, and even then, there will be serious loopholes. Like how do you award points to players like Reckless who can literally play mind games with you to outplay you, and they may not even have to step on a point? Conversely, how many points would newbies rack up by just back capping and recapping, inflating their scores while their teammates get farmed, or they get farmed.

Bots are bad, but you're being outplayed by them...

This bad addition forced me to stop doing the one thing I loved in WvW — roaming. It's a boring festival of people running away, or being ganked by 5, because you can no longer escape groups of poeple. One of them will just hang back, get out of combat and warclaw to catch up/get ahead. Coupled with the lack of PvP updates, I never log on anymore.

The level of play seen in these videos is so poor that it's almost not worth commenting on. I just wanted to drop this comment to say while yes, there are OP builds, you didn't do anything to counter the person who you're so annoyed by. Random dodging, no camera awareness, not utilizing skills, I mean these are basics. And to the people who say "even bads have a voice" yeah they do, but they shouldn't make balance decisions on people who don't know how to map the "about face" key.

Gaize don't you know about the magik wAr build that lets you swap all weapons at once? It both condi and power, ranged and mele, and uses all trait lines. Sups OP. Must nerf whol cla$$.

Eternal.... Sry that was gonna bug me. There's a "stuck in" thread, I'd drop a comment there, mate.

Garbage game mode

what/chars

This game will die a slow death without PvP. Enjoy it, cause that's where it's headed. Actually PvPers in this game, according to an Anet dev, only represent about 10% of the population. If you think PvP is keeping this game alive, or has ever amounted to more than just another activity, I'm not sure what to tell you. This game has always been centered on PvE content. From day one.Disagree.

Counter comp them. Learn other classes and figure out how to best beat them. Pugs are dumb. Plain and simple.

This game will die a slow death without PvP. Enjoy it, cause that's where it's headed.

Lol./15c

I appreciate all the various responses. Too bad Anet has yet to comment on any PvP posts expressing disappointment. They lose casters all the time, top-tier players all the time, and yet we see nothing from them? Confirmation on my end that this is the right move

Core pvp was way better, the xpacs ruined all what core had. It's not about me being older, it's about the game being completely different. So we not gonna talk about zoo Rangers, Turrentmancer Engies, Terromancer Necros, Hambow Warriors, Celestial Elementalist, Permastun, Pistol whipping Thieves. Unkillable bunker Guards. Yea sure...that sounds totally not cancerous as at all compared to now. They ALL had their horribad times. What we have now is like 300% worse than what we ever had back in the days. Now that's a lie. We had five man celestial ele teams. People have shown their games where holosmiths, mirages, scourges or whatever was stacked up to two or three. But never were they as amazingly successful as literal team of that five man ele comp.Cele ele teams were in 2014/2015.... That's a far cry from the game's launch.

I'm not saying I'm uninstalling, but I'm so unhappy with this game, I just don't want to play it any longer. I've been a supporting customer who focuses on PvP (and when not in PvP, WvW) since the game launched. I've spent thousands of dollars, and while I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the game, I've continuously for years been disappointed in it. I'm confident I'm not alone. I talk to high-level players who are uninstalling frequently, and just look at the game mode. There are fewer and fewer actual players. Want to keep or regenerate your player base? Some tips: Don't take several years to launch new minor (it doesn't matter how much coding it takes -- if it doesn't revolutionize the game mode, it's minor) features. Don't ignore balance for months at a time.Don't avoid engaging with your players, especially the good ones, when they want to talk about ways the game could improve. Don't make fun of players in your competitive modes (Has happened multiple times, not just in the stream today) Devote the time of more than one dev to the game mode.Promote competitive game modes on Twitch, or use some marketing dollars on them. DO introduce pilot game modes.DO introduce new maps with new leaderboards and new ways to play. DO switch things up after more than a dozen boring seasons.DO communicate with your community about how you (possibly?) are working to improve the game mode. DO ban bots and griefers. DO care about us. Until I see any of this, I pledge to not spend another dollar on an Anet product.

In you're vid You have your pvp rank covered wonder why and I seen 1 champion title Im sure you have more do BUT I DO SEE where your trying to mold PVP to fit your standers All I ask for is that team queue with rewards be returned or put to the polls again after being cheated out of the trial. I also believe it will help rebuild the mid tier population and therfore the mode itself.What's a higher number, 1 or 5? Then place those numbers at the base of your tree and network out the potential encounters to play with friends, thier friends, thier friends and so on and see which networks faster or "grows" faster.Obviously under duo you can only network 2 at a time and then you also have to factor in the mentality of a solo player and the likelihood of him wanting to play with 1 more person opposed to those who would rather play as 4 to 5 man. Everything else like having a 2v2 mode I believe would be fun and beneficial for the game health. Call it whatever you want. I think I've always been pretty clear on my pvp complaint. I like your new faux signature. Sparkles, rainbows and open wallets for all! Yes!!!This is a friendly environment with Sparkles and Rainbows, Quips for all! ??Sparkles and Rainbows.P.S. If anybody doesn't know your complaint about PvP by now that's on them. "Stop complaining it's you." personified here lol.

Okay, Prison Mike.

I like your new faux signature. Sparkles, rainbows and open wallets for all!

That would actually be amazing. Both of these would get me to play an Anet game again haha.

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers.Thank you for continuing to pick up the torch long after many of us have gotten too tired. Discussion on and requests to fix Holographic Shockwave is probably one of the top 3 most frequently mentioned topics in this subforum. I'm sure Arenanet is already well aware of the community's opinions & requests on that particular topic. This thread was simply to stress my own personal disdain towards certain patching decisions, and to perk discussion about it. Holographic Shockwave was only brought up as an example to show how silly it is to squander development time fixing nearly invisible bugs that no one notices, while completely ignoring game breaking bugs for years on end. In truth, there is a lot about Holosmith that needs fixing. I don't expect a big balance patch to happen during a bug fix patch, but as the consumer I certainly expect important bugs to be paid attention to during a bug fix patch. You know that's not true lol. The most discussed topics are about mesmers. There's a focus on Holo right now because it's overperforming without a mesmer spec to beat it down. Holosmith has gotten repeated nerfs, and it will likely continue to receive them. If you're as unhappy with the game/balance as the rest of us, do what the rest of us do. Seal your wallet and close the game.

No they didn't. Both prot Holo and even rifle match up against condi mirage including CI better than any build that isn't Fire Weaver. Hard disagree. A good CI mirage did beat any holo. Did a number of tests with top tier people to figure that out. There's nothing to hotfix.I swear to god, I wish they hadn't "hotfix disabled" CI. Now the community expects this to be done to every little thing.PF 5 does a ridiculous amount of stuff but it isn't spammable or anything unlike CI, and I've never seen this bug you bring up either. I think the important thing to point out is that the community definitely expects broken things to be fixed in general, and that they shouldn't have to wait 2 or 3 or 4 years for it to happen.Don't disagree -- this thread just isn't the way to do it. Although I'm not far removed -- I've essentially quit the game because of balance, low population and low to no PvP attention. Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can. But a Mirage can be hotfixed. Why not a Holosmith?I already said: There's nothing so broken you'd need to hotfix it. (Bug fixes are different) Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can. But a Mirage can be hotfixed. Why not a Holosmith? What exactly is there to hotfix? Holographic Shockwave Regardless of everything else that is wrong with Holosmith, I'd like to point out Holographic Shockwave in particular because it has been allowed to benefit from bugged range ever since its release. If they can dedicate time to fix a Jump Shot bug, why can't they dedicate time to fixing this bug? A cc that covers a quarter of a conquest map that spreads in waves, whys that a problem? LolI kid. It's the bugged range, it's disgusting. I have been playing a lot of Thief this season right. 9 out of 10 times I die to a Holosmith, it's because I am already kiting 200 range or so away from the Holosmith, and then I go to Shadowstep. When I Shadowstep away at maximum 1200 distance when I was already 200 range away from the Holosmith, I'll hear a Holographic Shockwave sound effect and somehow get clipped by it at 1400 range away from the Holosmith, when the tooltip says it's only supposed to go 600 range. And this isn't lag, it's bugged range. I never really noticed this while playing Druid, because I didn't have to often run from or super kite Holosmiths. Now while playing a Thief however, I see why people have been complaining about this bugged range. It's very very very obnoxious if you cannot stand toe to toe and brawl against the Holosmith to not worry about that range. This one stupid skill enables the Holosmith this effect where, if someone is within about 800-1000 range of him, they may as well be standing toe to toe with him, even if they are behind a $%^&ing wall or up a 600+ range vertical pillar. Not even sure how the bug in this skill has escaped being fixed since PoF release.Ok -- there's a range bug. So why not ask for the range bug to be fixed? What's this whole thread about.

I know this is a meme, but it wasn't a balance patch, so, what did you expect? There's nothing so broken it's as easy as a hotfix. When oppressive condi mirages were a thing, Holo had a hard time existing, so clearly balance is so fragile that one overpowered thing being nerfed means something else overpowered can spring up.