15 vs 15

[Ezikeo.5047]

Any word on when the 15 vs 15 will be released? Last we heard, it was completed, but needs the UI redone for the squad.

[garkos.2973]

it was never confirmed that it would ever release. there is the possibility that they will never finish this

[Ezikeo.5047]

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

make 15 v 15 a mini season LOL

[Kanto.2485]

Honestly i see no point for 15vs15 in pvp, that's definetly wvw scale. Hopefully it'll have wvw balance.

[Ezikeo.5047]

15 vs 15 would fullfil the large scale instanced battle ground system that other games like WoW has. It is extremely popular. 

[Liewec.2896]

i do miss the old 8v8 so perhaps 15 might be even more fun! 

(although my fond memories of back in the 8v8 days might be skewed by not having the over-nerfed stale meta junk we have now-a-days.)

 

only issue with 15v15 would be the queue times, even queueing for unranked is getting slow now, and thats only 10 players.

[Bazsi.2734]

 

12 hours ago, Ezikeo.5047 said:

 

It's only been like one and a half years since that post, and they do have to make an UI after all, so quit nagging them. It's really hard to make the UI show 15 boxes instead of 10, I tried to do it once but failed so bad I had to be resuscitated.

On a serious note, I have no idea what 15v15 could be good for in this game. We already have spontanous semi-organised zerg vs zerg on WvW, what could 15v15 give us that zerging doesn't? 

[Ezikeo.5047]

28 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

 

It's only been like one and a half years since that post, and they do have to make an UI after all, so quit nagging them. It's really hard to make the UI show 15 boxes instead of 10, I tried to do it once but failed so bad I had to be resuscitated.

On a serious note, I have no idea what 15v15 could be good for in this game. We already have spontanous semi-organised zerg vs zerg on WvW, what could 15v15 give us that zerging doesn't? 

 

You can easily say the same thing about 5v5 in structure vs WvW, the answer is apparent. 15v15 in an instanced map, has fair numbers on both sides, even gear and static objectives like 5v5 structure. Also its constant action, WvW is usually 50v50+, a lag fest and alot of downtime, whereas 15v15 would be constant action.

[Ezikeo.5047]

47 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

i do miss the old 8v8 so perhaps 15 might be even more fun! 

(although my fond memories of back in the 8v8 days might be skewed by not having the over-nerfed stale meta junk we have now-a-days.)

 

only issue with 15v15 would be the queue times, even queueing for unranked is getting slow now, and thats only 10 players.

 

My queues even at 3am pst are less than 3 mins and almost instant at peak hours. This is US server btw.

[The Fear.3865]

It will be 20 necros and 10 guard per game anyway

[Fueki.4753]

The PvP population isn't large enough to match 30 people in a reasonable amount of time.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

in all seriousness tho i don't think this would work without some big changes. i used to like playing 10v10 before they gutted it but it had some serious problems. things i think it would need:

- unlock all gear such as minstrels. no one is pushing with what we got now, it will be a total pirate ship fest. but but minstrel for baddies its so dumb qqqq!! well too bad. op gear is necessary to survive, unless ofc ppl want to play in a ranged caster battle 24/7. at the very least have a +heal +whatever -vital -tough amulet.

- i don't think 15s is going to work even with gear unlock cuz of amulet system limitations. i don't think the population will support it, and the gameplay probably won't be too enjoyable for pvp'ers. wvw'ers won't play this mode that often cuz of gear restrictions. i would go with 10 max maybe even 8.

- the mode definitely needs rounds. that was one of the biggest problems with the last 10v10 mode we had. one team would start to snowball the other and then it eventually turned into a spawn camp. i think it would also be beneficial to have some sort of comeback mechanic. maybe you switcheroo some people around, maybe there is an area buff in the middle of the map for the losing side. something to mitigate the 500-100 type of garbage gameplay we get with conquest.

- that brings us to the mode. is it going to be tdm? i think it would be sweet to have a different mmr system for tdm. have it based solely on kdr or hdr (heals per kill). ofc it could be totally random as well for this entire mode. another mode that worked for another 10v10 game i played is to have 3 nodes but only 1 active at a time. after some time passes (there were no rounds, so maybe disable rounds for this submode) and one team fully captured the node the next node opened up. you can have maps designed so that both teams have equal distance to all nodes, or one team is on defense, or even an escort type deal. i don't think conquest is a good fit for this big team mode nor do i think the type of player that wants to play this mode wants to play the same ol conquest.

[Ezikeo.5047]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

in all seriousness tho i don't think this would work without some big changes. i used to like playing 10v10 before they gutted it but it had some serious problems. things i think it would need:

- unlock all gear such as minstrels. no one is pushing with what we got now, it will be a total pirate ship fest. but but minstrel for baddies its so dumb qqqq!! well too bad. op gear is necessary to survive, unless ofc ppl want to play in a ranged caster battle 24/7. at the very least have a +heal +whatever -vital -tough amulet.

- i don't think 15s is going to work even with gear unlock cuz of amulet system limitations. i don't think the population will support it, and the gameplay probably won't be too enjoyable for pvp'ers. wvw'ers won't play this mode that often cuz of gear restrictions. i would go with 10 max maybe even 8.

- the mode definitely needs rounds. that was one of the biggest problems with the last 10v10 mode we had. one team would start to snowball the other and then it eventually turned into a spawn camp. i think it would also be beneficial to have some sort of comeback mechanic. maybe you switcheroo some people around, maybe there is an area buff in the middle of the map for the losing side. something to mitigate the 500-100 type of garbage gameplay we get with conquest.

- that brings us to the mode. is it going to be tdm? i think it would be sweet to have a different mmr system for tdm. have it based solely on kdr or hdr (heals per kill). ofc it could be totally random as well for this entire mode. another mode that worked for another 10v10 game i played is to have 3 nodes but only 1 active at a time. after some time passes (there were no rounds, so maybe disable rounds for this submode) and one team fully captured the node the next node opened up. you can have maps designed so that both teams have equal distance to all nodes, or one team is on defense, or even an escort type deal. i don't think conquest is a good fit for this big team mode nor do i think the type of player that wants to play this mode wants to play the same ol conquest.

 

This mode is extremely popular in other MMOs, WoW being an example. WoW has Arathi Basin(15v15), where its capture points and hold, pretty much what sPvP does well in GW2 but with more players and additional capture points. Also WoW has capture the flag, which is another popular game mode. GW2 can easily make better versions of these modes. I mean they already have made something, its just releasing it with a functional UI thats holding them back.

[Fueki.4753]

30 minutes ago, Ezikeo.5047 said:

 

This mode is extremely popular in other MMOs, WoW being an example. WoW has Arathi Basin(15v15), where its capture points and hold, pretty much what sPvP does well in GW2 but with more players and additional capture points. Also WoW has capture the flag, which is another popular game mode. GW2 can easily make better versions of these modes. I mean they already have made something, its just releasing it with a functional UI thats holding them back.

And WoW has (or at least had) a far bigger player base.

It also is significantly closer to being a balanced state.

 

But Blizzard considers PvP one of the three endgame pillars (or something along those lines).

It simply can't compared to GW2 sPvP, which has turned into little more than an afterthought under the table.

 

And then you have FF14 with currently the biggest player base of the three games,

which has PvP that is even worse than GW2's.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Ezikeo.5047]

59 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And WoW has (or at least had) a far bigger player base.

It also is significantly closer to being a balanced state.

 

But Blizzard considers PvP one of the three endgame pillars (or something along those lines).

It simply can't compared to GW2 sPvP, which has turned into little more than an afterthought under the table.

 

And then you have FF14 with currently the biggest player base of the three games,

which has PvP that is even worse than GW2's.

 

The PvP in FFXIV is terrible lol and with balance, in Shadowlands WoW, its worst then GW2. And to be honest, GW2 balance isn't that bad.

 

Also I don't understand what everyone is talking about when they say long queues, maybe its because of EoD or the influx of new players, but right now I'm getting almost instant queues when doing unranked.

[Avatar.3568]

On 8/26/2021 at 1:39 AM, Bazsi.2734 said:

 

It's only been like one and a half years since that post, and they do have to make an UI after all, so quit nagging them. It's really hard to make the UI show 15 boxes instead of 10, I tried to do it once but failed so bad I had to be resuscitated.

On a serious note, I have no idea what 15v15 could be good for in this game. We already have spontanous semi-organised zerg vs zerg on WvW, what could 15v15 give us that zerging doesn't? 

We don't need to organize a squad and could easily just play. Also wvw balance is kinda uff 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

15 hours ago, Ezikeo.5047 said:

 

This mode is extremely popular in other MMOs, WoW being an example. WoW has Arathi Basin(15v15), where its capture points and hold, pretty much what sPvP does well in GW2 but with more players and additional capture points. Also WoW has capture the flag, which is another popular game mode. GW2 can easily make better versions of these modes. I mean they already have made something, its just releasing it with a functional UI thats holding them back.

thats a different game dude. it has a substantially bigger population and an entirely different ruleset. the pvp section of this game are hardcore conquest devotees and they hate anything else, unless imo its executed perfectly. even with something as simple and popular (at first) as 2v2s and 3v3s there are lots of people who hate it cuz of the current balance. now imagine balance being skewed in a 15v15 where the stakes are much higher (i mean its kinda impossible to not skew balance in big battles but meh).

Edited August 27, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Ezikeo.5047]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

thats a different game dude. it has a substantially bigger population and an entirely different ruleset. the pvp section of this game are hardcore conquest devotees and they hate anything else, unless imo its executed perfectly. even with something as simple and popular (at first) as 2v2s and 3v3s there are lots of people who hate it cuz of the current balance. now imagine balance being skewed in a 15v15 where the stakes are much higher (i mean its kinda impossible to not skew balance in big battles but meh).

 

The 15v15 can easily be nonranked for casuals. Something players can just jump into. I just hope it gets released in EoD.

[ovenglove.9528]

Honestly I hope it never comes.I don't like the larger scale fights, which is why I don't play WvW. It becomes a much bigger mess of Aoe, and individuals have even less impact. GW2 is balanced for 5vs5, and I think that is the sweet spot. 

 

I wanted 2vs2, and 3vs3 but in reality the game beign balanced around conquest means it doesn't work very well. I think conquest is what makes GW2 pvp good, and adding more modes only makes the game worse overall. 

[Ezikeo.5047]

50 minutes ago, ovenglove.9528 said:

Honestly I hope it never comes.I don't like the larger scale fights, which is why I don't play WvW. It becomes a much bigger mess of Aoe, and individuals have even less impact. GW2 is balanced for 5vs5, and I think that is the sweet spot. 

 

I wanted 2vs2, and 3vs3 but in reality the game beign balanced around conquest means it doesn't work very well. I think conquest is what makes GW2 pvp good, and adding more modes only makes the game worse overall. 

 

I mean if you don't like it, don't play or queue for it. Variety is always healthy in a game. The thing that is good about GW2 is that nothing is really forced on you. I'm not a fan of fractals, but if they add more, I have no objections to it.

[Bazsi.2734]

On 8/27/2021 at 9:02 AM, Avatar.3568 said:

We don't need to organize a squad and could easily just play. Also wvw balance is kinda uff 

I think its impossible to properly balance this combat system for 15v15 anyway. Also what do you mean no need to organise the squad, then whats the point to any of this? You can already fight a bunch of randoms in WvW, this would basicly just exchange the time you spend running back to the fight with time you spend waiting in Q.
Also many of us won't bother to touch this gamemode(the beauty of this combat system is having to watch animations, count dodges, fake/bait enemy cooldowns etc... they all just disappear when you fight an amorphous blob), how would you get population to sustain this?
 

[Ezikeo.5047]

16 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I think its impossible to properly balance this combat system for 15v15 anyway. Also what do you mean no need to organise the squad, then whats the point to any of this? You can already fight a bunch of randoms in WvW, this would basicly just exchange the time you spend running back to the fight with time you spend waiting in Q.
Also many of us won't bother to touch this gamemode(the beauty of this combat system is having to watch animations, count dodges, fake/bait enemy cooldowns etc... they all just disappear when you fight an amorphous blob), how would you get population to sustain this?
 

 

Not everyone wants to be a tryhard or join a guild to PvP, the 15v15 would be for casuals that want to queue and PvP. This mode will not cater to the eSports players. sPVP 5v5 is just too sweaty and WvW is super zergy where you are kinda forced into a guild or voice so you could efficiently run in a conga line against another group doing the same.

 

15v15 queue would offer a middle ground, no commitment and FUN.

[Bazsi.2734]

6 hours ago, Ezikeo.5047 said:

 

Not everyone wants to be a tryhard or join a guild to PvP, the 15v15 would be for casuals that want to queue and PvP. This mode will not cater to the eSports players. sPVP 5v5 is just too sweaty and WvW is super zergy where you are kinda forced into a guild or voice so you could efficiently run in a conga line against another group doing the same.

 

15v15 queue would offer a middle ground, no commitment and FUN.

The number of people who find this extra nieche "unorganised small scale zerging" fun must be above 30+ every few minutes. sPvP barely can fish 10 people togheter in the same time to make somewhat balanced matches, I think they stopped development exactly because of this, they don't intend to make another stronghold(it was dead on arrival).
Now if only they could like... tell us? Even though I think I'm right here it's just an educated guess, I never understood why they think keeping us in the dark about EVERYTHING is a good thing. Once you abandon a project just effin say it.