Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[Imba.9451]

46 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK, but what makes you think 1v1 duels is a 'system'? or that even if it's not needed, being related to the place it's being implemented is still something that makes sense to do? To be frank, that's a pretty contrived and vague concept you are using to dismiss the point here. 

 

It's a pretty academic argument anyways, but people have made their points, they are relevant and even though Anet can invent some reason to implement this relevant to the story, it's going to be pretty forced. And to be fair, there is LOTS of 'systems' that Anet have implemented and did tie in with the story, even though they didn't actually need to, so the 'need' or not doesn't seem to relevant here. I believe that based on other examples, whether it's needed or not, Anet will want to find a way to do that tie in. Considering that the OW is ALL about PVE, if there is a tie in for 1v1 duels in OW, will most likely BE about the story related to the PVE themes and plotlines. 

 

Honestly, I see how it's easy to dismiss the lack of a PVE tie in as a point for 1v1 duels because it is a pretty abstract point, but it's as relevant as any other content Anet has added to OW/PVE. 

It's actually very simple: You started the whole debate about "why would we fight each other in the open world?"

We gave you reasons for how that could be adressed by something that is already in the game.

 

At this point, all you do is defending your point forthe sake of not being "wrong".  There are so many reasons for why 1v1 in the OW will probably never happen and why Anet wouldn't want to implement it, but the lack of a tie-in for this feature into the story is not one of them.

[Obtena.7952]

I guess that's a matter of opinion then ... because most of the content in OW does have a story tie in and if the name of the game in OW is co-operative play, any justification to add 1v1 would be pretty far reaching to do so. I would think that if the concept so radical as 1v1duels was added to OW, it would get that tie in treatment too. That's not as crazy as people are trying to paint it to be and seems not so crazy to Anet either, since they do it, whether it's needed or not. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I guess that's a matter of opinion then ... because most of the content in OW does have a story tie in and if the name of the game in OW is co-operative play, any justification to add 1v1 would be pretty far reaching to do so.

 

No, because it's literally in the game right now. We get to fight pact members and other allies all the time for hearts and Hero points.

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I would think that if the concept so radical as 1v1duels was added to OW, it would get that tie in treatment too. That's not as crazy as people are trying to paint it to be and seems not so crazy to Anet either, since they do it, whether it's needed or not. 

Yeah, and there are ways to tie it in. Ways that are already in the game.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK, but what makes you think 1v1 duels is a 'system'? or that even if it's not needed, being related to the place it's being implemented is still something that makes sense to do? To be frank, that's a pretty contrived and vague concept you are using to dismiss the point here. 

 

It's a pretty academic argument anyways, but people have made their points, they are relevant and even though Anet can invent some reason to implement this relevant to the story, it's going to be pretty forced. And to be fair, there is LOTS of 'systems' that Anet have implemented and did tie in with the story, even though they didn't actually need to, so the 'need' or not doesn't seem to relevant here. I believe that based on other examples, whether it's needed or not, Anet will want to find a way to do that tie in. Considering that the OW is ALL about PVE, if there is a tie in for 1v1 duels in OW, will most likely BE about the story related to the PVE themes and plotlines. 

 

Honestly, I see how it's easy to dismiss the lack of a PVE tie in as a point for 1v1 duels because it is a pretty abstract point, but it's as relevant as any other content Anet has added to OW/PVE. 

What's the lore justification for equipment and b uild templates?

Where's the lore justification for the inventory being expanded?

What's the lore justification behind the hero panel UI change?

Where's the lore behind the LFG system?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

But that mean WvW and sPvP is the rule for 1v1?

Have you never looked at how powerful certain skills are in WvW & PvP vs how they work in PvE?

[The Greyhawk.9107]

34 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

What's the lore justification for equipment and b uild templates?

Where's the lore justification for the inventory being expanded?

What's the lore justification behind the hero panel UI change?

Where's the lore behind the LFG system?

Any argument for or against dueling using the "in-universe justification" is completely meaningless to me but you're reasoning here is not a very good faith argument.  This is a video game, there are going to be things in the basic game mechanics that aren't going to be perfectly in line with lore otherwise it would be unplayable.  This line of thinking is unreasonable and obtuse at best.

Edited September 6, 2021 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

What's the lore justification for equipment and b uild templates?

Where's the lore justification for the inventory being expanded?

What's the lore justification behind the hero panel UI change?

Where's the lore behind the LFG system?

I don't know ... but I'm not claiming everything in the game is related to lore, so your questions aren't very relevant to me, or the discussion. I'm saying content in OW is justified by lore and the story Anet creates. I would even go so far as to say that all of it is, but I'm certain some obtuse person would find something (examples being build templates, inventory expansions, hero panel UI changes and LFG system) they believe would be the exception to claim they completely invalidate the idea that lore and the content in OW are strongly related.

 

I mean, why don't you ask me how logging in is related to lore? Or what you had for breakfast is related to it? Those would be JUST as relevant to ask as the things you asked me above. 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Any argument for or against dueling using the "in-universe justification" is completely meaningless to me but you're reasoning here is not a very good faith argument.  This is a video game, there are going to be things in the basic game mechanics that aren't going to be perfectly in line with lore otherwise it would be unplayable.  This line of thinking is unreasonable and obtuse at best.

The entire argument didn't start in good faith.  If one system suddenly needs an in-lore justification while others don't, they're being inconsistent.

 

18 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't know ... but I'm not claiming everything in the game is related to lore, so your questions aren't very relevant to me, or the discussion.

But you're claiming that suddenly, for whatever reason, that 1v1 duels in open world need a lore justification for it to even be a consideration?

 

Quote

I'm saying content in OW is justified by lore and the story Anet creates. I would even go so far as to say that all of it is, but I'm certain some obtuse person would find something (examples being build templates, inventory expansions, hero panel UI changes and LFG system) they believe would be the exception to claim they completely invalidate the idea that lore and the content in OW are strongly related.

That's why there's big vista maps that float in the air, invisible walls, tiny buildings that you can stand on, objects without collision, etc. Then to list off NPC dialogue that's relevant to the story around 2012.  Things like NPCs in DR still hating charr or having an infatuation with Caudecus.  There's also plenty of times where our characters fight other allied characters, or are you just going to ignore that?

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There's also plenty of times where our characters fight other allied characters, or are you just going to ignore that?

If fighting NPC's was a relevant point to justify 1v1 duels in OW, it would be worth considering. Seems like an absolutely trivial reasoning to me since you fight all kinds of different NPC's in this game, regardless of the faction they are associated with. 

 

I mean, you can ask all the weird questions you like ... but vast majority of content in OW is related to the lore surrounding GW and story Anet is creating for it that players know as PVE. For some reason, you think it's absurd to consider that for unquestionably PVP-related 1v1 duels. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If fighting NPC's was a relevant point to justify 1v1 duels in OW, it would be worth considering. Seems like an absolutely trivial reasoning to me since you fight all kinds of different NPC's in this game, regardless of the faction they are associated with.

So what's stopping two people from just wanting to duke it out somewhere in the open world, then?  We, by  your admission, already fight so many factions and such.

 

Quote

I mean, you can ask all the weird questions you like ... but vast majority of content in OW is related to the lore surrounding GW and story Anet is creating for it that players know as PVE. For some reason, you think it's absurd to consider that for unquestionably PVP-related 1v1 duels. 

I think it's absurd you require an in-lore explanation for this.

[Obtena.7952]

29 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

So what's stopping two people from just wanting to duke it out somewhere in the open world, then?  We, by  your admission, already fight so many factions and such.

All kinds of things are stopping this from happening. Just because we fight 'factions' has nothing to do with dueling a player. I mean, that doesn't even make sense ... if we were fighting factions on the storyline of being in some kind of conflict, the idea that's settled with 1v1 duels is pretty nonsensical. 

Quote

I think it's absurd you require an in-lore explanation for this.

OK you think that ... That doesn't change the fact that OW content is frequently (if not always) related to the story and GW2 lore. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

All kinds of things are stopping this from happening. Just because we fight 'factions' has nothing to do with dueling a player. I mean, that doesn't even make sense ... if we were fighting factions on the storyline of being in some kind of conflict, the idea that's settled with 1v1 duels is pretty nonsensical. 

 

Uh, did you not pay attention to the stories that are literally everywhere?  The flame legion, ghosts, renegades, separatists in Ascalon alone.  Then bandits, white mantle, centaurs, in Kryta, Nightmare Court, Inquest, in Maguuma.  Svanir, Grawl, Centaurs in Shiverpeaks.  There's plenty of reason any character could want to fight another.  Especially since roleplayers will make their reason as their character can be part of any factions they want, and players in general will just enjoy the new pvp system while waiting for world bosses or a pvp queue.
 

Quote

OK you think that ... That doesn't change the fact that OW content is frequently (if not always) related to the story and GW2 lore. 

That's why the world is constantly evolving still, right? Not a single map instance left in the dust or history.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Is there any chance that y'all can drop this line of discussion regarding whether or not dueling fits into the PvE maps lore and world-building? Please?

[kharmin.7683]

Probably the same chance as dropping the entire OW PvP topic, since it's been beaten to death in so many threads already.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Probably the same chance as dropping the entire OW PvP topic, since it's been beaten to death in so many threads already.

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

23 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Probably the same chance as dropping the entire OW PvP topic, since it's been beaten to death in so many threads already.

Maybe if it were better at 1v1s, it would have been implemented already.

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Maybe if it were better at 1v1s, it would have been implemented already.

Yea sadly the arguments for 1v1s is to weak so it havent been implemented.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea sadly the arguments for 1v1s is to weak so it havent been implemented.

That and all the technical stuff behind making it actually work is a logistical nightmare that likely won't work out as the usual 1v1 duels you can get in any other game.

[shrew.3059]

12 hours ago, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

I’m not a PvP player so I might easily be missing something.

 
How is traveling to a map that has a fighting pit (presumably it’s instanced so it can have the PvP skill set) and going through the portal into the instance to duel different than going to PvP and going into an empty arena to duel? 

 

Good question. From what I gather, part of the ask is PvP in Open World, not PvP hidden away in a segregated space. Are “fighting pits” functionally equivalent? To me it seems like a distinction without a difference, but if it’s a compromise that could work, who am I to push the argument further?

 

If the ask is “duelling wherever/whenever”, I’m not sure that is ever going to fly given that the game seems predicated on separating the two modes by at least the semblance of a gate.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

14 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Good question. From what I gather, part of the ask is PvP in Open World, not PvP hidden away in a segregated space. Are “fighting pits” functionally equivalent? To me it seems like a distinction without a difference, but if it’s a compromise that could work, who am I to push the argument further?

 

If the ask is “duelling wherever/whenever”, I’m not sure that is ever going to fly given that the game seems predicated on separating the two modes by at least the semblance of a gate.

If there's no real difference then why should time and resources be put into making another private arena?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

19 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Good question. From what I gather, part of the ask is PvP in Open World, not PvP hidden away in a segregated space. Are “fighting pits” functionally equivalent? To me it seems like a distinction without a difference, but if it’s a compromise that could work, who am I to push the argument further?

 

If the ask is “duelling wherever/whenever”, I’m not sure that is ever going to fly given that the game seems predicated on separating the two modes by at least the semblance of a gate.

maybe a different possibility. 
 

a new PvP map in the mists. One that looks like a PvE map but without any events. When players go there they are invulnerable for a period of time (to stop spawn camping) and when invulnerability wears off they are all hostile to each other. 
 

people can travel to the dueling map, duel without having to find an arena and return to their previous map when they leave. 
 

[Dawdler.8521]

13 minutes ago, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

maybe a different possibility. 
 

a new PvP map in the mists. One that looks like a PvE map but without any events. When players go there they are invulnerable for a period of time (to stop spawn camping) and when invulnerability wears off they are all hostile to each other. 
 

people can travel to the dueling map, duel without having to find an arena and return to their previous map when they leave. 
 

 Instances where you can PvP sounds cool!

Maybe even some kind of arena in this instance where you can choose between being on two kind of teams or if you just want to observe?

It could be just on the edge of the mists.

The technical difficulties to adding this to GW2 today must be immense!!!

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

 Instances where you can PvP sounds cool!

Maybe even some kind of arena in this instance where you can choose between being on two kind of teams or if you just want to observe?

It could be just on the edge of the mists.

The technical difficulties to adding this to GW2 today must be immense!!!

I think, specifically, people want to pvp while waiting for something else like a world boss or a queue (Be it pvp or wvw queue), so moving maps is kinda bunk.  PvP already has a free-for-all arena within it though.

[Imba.9451]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

I mean, you can ask all the weird questions you like ... but vast majority of content in OW is related to the lore surrounding GW and story Anet is creating for it that players know as PVE. For some reason, you think it's absurd to consider that for unquestionably PVP-related 1v1 duels. 

Noone says it's absurd. We simply say that the reasoning is the same, no matter if you fight other players or NPC's. Because fighting an NPC who asks you to "show your strength!" or to "help him train!" is ultimately the same thing as 2 players fighting with this as as an ingame lore justification, because in the end, both are fictional characters.

And lets be honest: There isn't much involvement in the overall "story" for most of the NPC's either. They are there. They have a short dialogue as alibi-reason to fight you. Thats not story. That hardly even is considered to be lore.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I think, specifically, people want to pvp while waiting for something else like a world boss or a queue (Be it pvp or wvw queue), so moving maps is kinda bunk.  PvP already has a free-for-all arena within it though.

There's a ton of purely mechanical problems tied to being able to PvP in a general PvE environment and not in an area specifically dedicated to that. The way PvE is designed just makes it extremely difficult and costly to implement - to the point where i would not be surprised it would require a rework of large parts of the game's key subsystems.

 

Edit: if you're wondering, the primary (but not the only) issue is the aggro relations system (the part that decides which degree of green/yellow/red tag two different entities are to each other).

Edited September 6, 2021 by Astralporing.1957