They butchered another elite specialization

[Lynx.9058]

17 hours ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

I would not have any interest in an elemental summoner. Happy with the hybrid ranged/melee hammer concept generally, though what we got in the beta was very disappointing. 

 

I fully expect them to learn and improve from feedback they got but my policy is never preorder anything nor prejudge based on early betas. 

don't we already have 'elemental summoner' with glyph of lesser elementals and glyph of elementals?  I mean I use both on my tempest and can have a handful of pets, even of different atunement types, going at once.

[Aedil.1296]

You guys really need to stop telling people they should change class or game. 

There are people passionate about playing an elemental mage and they just wish to have at least one Ele spec that is ranged and not too hard to play. 

This is why e-spec exists, to change how a class works and add new flavours. 

If people keep having these breakdowns for years is cause, for example staff is still so nerfed and unusable in most occasions, that even with that an Ele cannot fullfill the classic mage archetype. And I'm just talking about a weapon, not even to dedicate a full spec for this archetype playstyle. It's years people are asking for this and still Anet is just deaf and keeps proposing things that the majority of eles do not want - see hammer and catalyst bull***t. 

These breakdowns are legit and well deserved by Anet sorry. 

Yours sincerely, 

Faithfull paying customer since 2005 in GW1

Edited October 3, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[fuzzyp.6295]

3 hours ago, Aedil.1296 said:

You guys really need to stop telling people they should change class or game. 

There are people passionate about playing an elemental mage and they just wish to have at least one Ele spec that is ranged and not too hard to play. 

This is why e-spec exists, to change how a class works and add new plavours. 

If people keep having these breakdowns for years is cause, for example staff is still so nerfed and unusable in most occasions, that even with that an Ele cannot fullfill the classic mage archetype. And I'm just talking about a weapon, not even to dedicate a full spec for this archetype playstyle. It's years people are asking for this and still Anet is just deaf and keeps proposing things that the majority of eles do not want - see hammer and catalyst bull***t. 

These breakdowns are legit and well deserved by Anet sorry. 

Yours sincerely, 

Faithfull paying customer since 2005 in GW1

I really think you players who are complaining about the Elemental Mage issue are looking over one crucial thing and its the reason why people are getting frustrated with these constant complaints:

You literally can play that archetype if you want too. Nothing is stopping you... Staff and Scepter both fulfill the role of Range Elemental Spell Caster and, guess what, you can use them on ANY of the Elite Specs.

Does it suck that Staff isn't meta? Sure, its a bummer, but nothing is stopping you from using it other than your own unwillingness too. Just because a weapon isn't meta doesn't mean its unusable.  Fractal/Raid groups kicking you? Make your own... play with your friends.... find a guild that doesn't care about the meta because I can promise you that most players here are not playing up to Meta Standards of what Elementalist is even needed too anyway. And I'm sure most here are even talking about open world where literally you can just run off-hand focus and still find a way to complete fights....

It's one thing to go around suggesting that Staff gets a buff, which I wholeheartly agree with. It's also perfectly fine to make arguments for a future ranged spellcaster elite spec.

But its an entirely differently thing to go around the forums thumping your chest saying "I can't play my mage fantasy!!!" when you LITERALLY CAN. It's not that you can't play it, its that you don't want to play it as it is in the game.  I'm sorry if its not up to your standards but that doesn't change the fact that it already exists in the game. You can go hop on any of the elementalist specs, throw full beserker on, grab your staff and Fire Autoattack your hearts content until you die because you let one little Drake get too close. Engaging gameplay.

EDIT: And again, hate to point this out but the majority of Elementalist players up until Catalyst was announced cared more about having a class with better sustainability than a pure glass ranged caster, which it seems was ANets original intent with Catalyst (whether or not they reached that is debatable). It's only because it wasn't range and the whole community got their hopes up that this complaining really happened.

Signed,

Another faithfully playing GW player since 2005 who still wishes Monk was in the game because I  ACTUALLY can't play my Healing Mage Fantasy.

Edited October 2, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295
spelling, clarifation.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 hours ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

I really think you players who are complaining about the Elemental Mage issue are looking over one crucial thing and its the reason why people are getting frustrated with these constant complaints:

You literally can play that archetype if you want too. Nothing is stopping you... Staff and Scepter both fulfill the role of Range Elemental Spell Caster and, guess what, you can use them on ANY of the Elite Specs.

Does it suck that Staff isn't meta? Sure, its a bummer, but nothing is stopping you from using it other than your own unwillingness too. Just because a weapon isn't meta doesn't mean its unusable.  Fractal/Raid groups kicking you? Make your own... play with your friends.... find a guild that doesn't care about the meta because I can promise you that most players here are not playing up to Meta Standards of what Elementalist is even needed too anyway. And I'm sure most here are even talking about open world where literally you can just run off-hand focus and still find a way to complete fights....

It's one thing to go around suggesting that Staff gets a buff, which I wholeheartly agree with. It's also perfectly fine to make arguments for a future ranged spellcaster elite spec.

But its an entirely differently thing to go around the forums thumping your chest saying "I can't play my mage fantasy!!!" when you LITERALLY CAN. It's not that you can't play it, its that you don't want to play it as it is in the game.  I'm sorry if its not up to your standards but that doesn't change the fact that it already exists in the game. You can go hop on any of the elementalist specs, throw full beserker on, grab your staff and Fire Autoattack your hearts content until you die because you let one little Drake get too close. Engaging gameplay.

EDIT: And again, hate to point this out but the majority of Elementalist players up until Catalyst was announced cared more about having a class with better sustainability than a pure glass ranged caster, which it seems was ANets original intent with Catalyst (whether or not they reached that is debatable). It's only because it wasn't range and the whole community got their hopes up that this complaining really happened.

Signed,

Another faithfully playing GW player since 2005 who still wishes Monk was in the game because I  ACTUALLY can't play my Healing Mage Fantasy.

We play that archetype since 2012 on weapon sets that are much weaker than anything else in the entire game and we kinda are a bit tired of playing same kitten for so long, so that's why people wanted another alternative for ranged gameplay.
Another thing Tempest and Weaver are both melee oriented specces and one of them focuses heavily on support and other one on being selfish bruiser, so what's the purpose of the 3rd one? 
What "majority of Elementalist players" though? Better sustain is demanded because of how much we have to sacrifice to even "compete" with other classes in various contents of the game, but that doesn't mean we want 3rd e-spec to fill it since it'll dump core into trash can even more which is opposite of what we want for the whole class. Catalyst doesn't even provide that "better sustainability" in the slightest, it doesn't even have "damage".
Concept of catalyst is messed-up af, it's like minimum 3 different parts mashed into one as last minute effort.
It wants to focus around F5 Jade Thingie(which is trash btw) as a "support-like" ability, which spot for that is taken by Tempest.
It wants to focus on Auras as well, which is also taken by Tempest.
It wants to be selfish "damage/bruiser" which is taken by Weaver.
The only thing that is different is Hammer being "hybrid" range, but other classes were capable of that "hybrid" range with weapon swapping since 2012.
In other words, Catalyst didn't bring anything new to the table, beside being Core 1.5 with F5 skill and trying to powercreep into viability via stats boosts alone, but that's not healthy in long run.
P.S. You kinda forget that unlike other classes Ele is being held back by it's own design if it comes to e-speces by a lot.

[TheDarkness.6947]

As far as the mage fantasy is concerned, go the GW2 Elementalist page.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

 

Read the description, then watch the skill videos over on the right hand side.  Is it surprising people would expect ele to play like a ranged caster rather than some kind of melee?  The ele never lets anything near it in those videos.

Edited October 2, 2021 by TheDarkness.6947

[fuzzyp.6295]

Quote

We play that archetype since 2012 on weapon sets that are much weaker than anything else in the entire game and we kinda are a bit tired of playing same kitten for so long, so that's why people wanted another alternative for ranged gameplay.

I'm sorry but this doesn't change the fact that the Mage Archetype that everyone here is crying about is LITERALLY in the game and has been in the game since 2012. As I said, it's not up to your current standards. That's a valid criticism and something worth suggesting but to argue you can't play it is wrong. You don't want to play it anymore.

There is a difference between "I can't" and "I won't" which is what I'm getting frustrated seeing. Its fine to want something new, its not fine to insist you can't play a spec a certain way just because you haven't gotten any new toys directly.

Quote

Another thing Tempest and Weaver are both melee oriented specces and one of them focuses heavily on support and other one on being selfish bruiser, so what's the purpose of the 3rd one? 

Both Tempest and Weaver can still be played AT RANGE. Nothing nothing nothing about these specs requires you to play melee. In fact, both of these specs offer things that Staff players have needed in the past: Tempest gives Staff Players Overloads which give them strong answers to dealing with enemies that get up in their face and Weaver turns the DPS meter up to 11, in addition to giving you 6 new skills for staff.  And if we're being real here, Catalyst and its combo heavy gameplay style look like its going to work incredibly well with Staff because of its many, many finishers.

Again, the issue here isn't if its good/meta, its the people here saying that their mage fantasy does not exist... which. it. does.

 

Quote

What "majority of Elementalist players" though? Better sustain is demanded because of how much we have to sacrifice to even "compete" with other classes in various contents of the game, but that doesn't mean we want 3rd e-spec to fill it since it'll dump core into trash can even more which is opposite of what we want for the whole class. Catalyst doesn't even provide that "better sustainability" in the slightest, it doesn't even have "damage".

Go read through any number of the many threads here that bring up issues about Elementalist for the past, oh I don't know, 6 to 7 years. The number one complaint will be that Elementalist dies way too easy. If after Tempest and Weaver the arguement is still persisting, of course ANet is going to think that Elementalist players want a class with better defenses..

The reason why ANet hasn't given you a new ranged weapon? You can still be the ranged DPS nuker... on literally any of the especs.


The rest of your post is just complaining about Catalyst and Elementalist, which I mean, fine, valid criticisms of the class. I do not want to silent peoples criticism of  Catalyst because its clear that ANEt missed the mark with it.

But that is not the point of anything I originally said.

You have freedom and variety in playing a Mage Archetype even though there hasn't been an new only long range elite spec released. Just because you haven't gotten a new spec specifically focused around range you doesn't mean you are somehow unable to play this ideal version of a wizard when you literally can. And to argue here that these classes don't change the way Staff and Scepter play are just down right wrong, because they do change it. It may not be as dramatic as a whole new elite spec, but yes, they do offer new tools to change how Elementalist plays.

One final thing.... If ANet released another Long Range focused Spec, there is no guarantee, despite all this crying, that it will somehow make Staff and Scepter the mage weapons again people want them to be and that the spec won't focus heavily on making sure the new weapon is powerful. You may find yourself more of an arcane pirate shooting out elemental bullets or throwing weird elemental themed axxes like a crazy arcane barbarian.. which, if you ask me, is nothing like the actual Mage Fantasy everyone wants.

Edited October 2, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[fuzzyp.6295]

23 minutes ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

As far as the mage fantasy is concerned, go the GW2 Elementalist page.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

 

Read the description, then watch the skill videos over on the right hand side.  Is it surprising people would expect ele to play like a ranged caster rather than some kind of melee?  The ele never lets anything near it in those videos.

You have two ranged waepons on every single Elementalist elite spec that fit the typical exceptions of a spellcaster. Your range mage fantasy exists. There is nothing stopping you from running Staff or Scepter on any of the elite specs. So what is your point?

There is a difference between "I can't play my mage fantasy" and "I don't want to play this mage fantasy because the weapons are not up to date." If you want to be a spell castering glass canon, all the tools exist and have existed in the game since launch with each elite spec bringing a different way you can interact with your staff/scepter too.

There are valid reasons to ask for an update to Staff and Scepter and even Dagger. But you can still play a ranged spell caster if you want... nothing is stopping you other than you own unwillingness to give it a try and see how it works with the new elite specs.

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 9/29/2021 at 3:20 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, if that poll was statistically relevant, you might have something. There will always be some people that dislike something new. That's not a reason for Anet to get jumpy and try to please everyone ... especially since that's a fool's errand in the first place. 

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/102004-rate-catalyst/ 

260+ votes /is/ statistically relevant for the likely population of catalyst players in the beta. 

[TheDarkness.6947]

8 minutes ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

You have two ranged waepons on every single Elementalist elite spec that fit the typical exceptions of a spellcaster. Your range mage fantasy exists. There is nothing stopping you from running Staff or Scepter on any of the elite specs. So what is your point?

There is a difference between "I can't play my mage fantasy" and "I don't want to play this mage fantasy because the weapons are not up to date." If you want to be a spell castering glass canon, all the tools exist and have existed in the game since launch with each elite spec bringing a different way you can interact with your staff/scepter too.

There are valid reasons to ask for an update to Staff and Scepter and even Dagger. But you can still play a ranged spell caster if you want... nothing is stopping you other than you own unwillingness to give it a try and see how it works with the new elite specs.

 

You’re not wrong.  Thing is, unless you’re an exceptional player, you’re going to get your butt kicked walking around with a staff outside of the core Tyria maps..  If EoD releases with some updates to staff to make it more relevant in the current game, and the Jade sphere mechanic is tweaked up to make it more rewarding, I think that actually might make a lot of people happy.

[fuzzyp.6295]

9 minutes ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

 

You’re not wrong.  Thing is, unless you’re an exceptional player, you’re going to get your butt kicked walking around with a staff outside of the core Tyria maps..  If EoD releases with some updates to staff to make it more relevant in the current game, and the Jade sphere mechanic is tweaked up to make it more rewarding, I think that actually might make a lot of people happy.

I'm hoping that after the feedback offered through out the forums, ANet makes Jade Sphere a much more reliable tool to play into the Catalyst's combo game. Whether that be longer lasting fields, more control over how it swaps or whatever, its clear Catalyst needs some changes. Depending on what they do, Staff could be a very powerful tool with Catalyst due to its many combo finishers.

I don't want to invalidate peoples criticisms about Catalyst or about range gameplay. I don't think anyone raising criticisms over the state of Staff/Scepter is selfish or wrong, they are right that it needs a tune up. Its just the arguement that the game somehow is now preventing people from playing this mage fantasy is what is so confusing to me. I still run Staff in open world no problem, although recently I've been having a lot of fun with Scepter Fresh Air Tempest. Both feel about as classical as a Mage can get.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, scerevisiae.1972 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/102004-rate-catalyst/ 

260+ votes /is/ statistically relevant for the likely population of catalyst players in the beta. 

Really? Other than waving your hands and declaring the truth of your statement, how did you figure it out? You realize there is some math involved with determining that right? You also realize that the context of the conversation being had there was related to the poster implying the poll was indicative of the number of people not purchasing the expansion right?

Let's take a step back ... I'm not lying to you when I say Anet can't please everyone and the game doesn't cater to individual players. I know, you're going to tell me the new spec is terrible and EVERYONE hates it ... and if that's the case, we know Anet will adjust it so that's not true, whether it's before, during or after release. 

So what's your point? Well, other than to argue with me the definition of statistically significant, I'm not sure ... BUT ... Let's make sure we understand mine. The theme is likely beyond a redo that lots of people in your poll indicate they want. We are getting a hammer for weapon, we are getting Jade Spheres as the mechanic, we are getting Augments for skills. Most of the concepts behind the skills and traits aren't likely to change too much as long as they work with how Anet envisions the theme. The expectations that Anet trash their work thus far is just unrealistic. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jongi.7612]

The catalyst has many problems. The weapon is in a state of confusion in that it doesnt know what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt do anything particularly well except air 2 power. The attunements are in conflict and not mid range vs melee range which is just melee range, its in conflict with what you would want to do.

 

The elementalist seems to me to be spread too thin, something you wouldnt want to do with a stat increase trait since you gain more from stacking certain traits and boosting them up more than if you spread them thin and then increasing them.

 

What reason would there be to play a Catalyst? Other than you just want to and deal with the problems it brings up. I dont see a reason to play it over a reaper, a scrapper, a scourge, a mirage, or anything else for that matter. There is absolutely nothing that I seen with the catalyst that makes me say "wow that was fun". Fun is subjective but it seems to be echoed not only on the forums but in game as well and even the video feedback on youtube.

 

I dont see any reason to really play the catalyst except for a hammer skin and thats pretty sad. Maybe im missing something, maybe you are just supposed to focus on 2 attunements, it just seems like there is no direction and a specialization was just thrown together.

[Puck.3697]

On 9/28/2021 at 6:18 PM, Touchme.1097 said:

ased on the poll on Catalyst they brushed a lot of players the wrong way

While I agree to a extent with most of things you say. I'd argue the current polls around the proffession are kinda tainted due to how underpowered it is. 

Imho if catalyst was the exact same now but hammer was OP and utilities overturned it'd prolly have received a far more positive review in alot of cases. 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Stop responding with Obtena, he's just a relativistic troll, he doesn't accept any opinion or conception, nor we use generalities, suppositions... by spamming argos logos and never involving himself directly.

Basicaly, if you're not one of the fabulous dev of divin Anet you can't know the truth; it means you know nothing and are always wrong about classes, devs roadmap, developement, marketing, players base wish and playstyle etc.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Touchme.1097]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

While I agree to a extent with most of things you say. I'd argue the current polls around the proffession are kinda tainted due to how underpowered it is. 

Imho if catalyst was the exact same now but hammer was OP and utilities overturned it'd prolly have received a far more positive review in alot of cases. 

I disagree with you because Catalyst's current benchmark exceeded 45k DPS. Damage is not everything to consider on an Elite Spec, utility, survivability, boon generation are way more important factors and trait synergy as well.

Another important factor is a lot of players don't like Catalyst as it is, many of them expected a pure ranged Spec with Rifle or Longbow, not this mid range hybrid which doesn't fit a Spellcaster with the lowest hp in the game. If ArenaNet designers think scholar professions have to be melee mages they should raise every profession's base HP to 15k, except for Warrior and Necro which are balanced around at 19k base HP and give Elementalists better utility options and alacrity (both Elementalists and Mesmers got their magic from the same Goddess so it would make sense).

Edited October 2, 2021 by Touchme.1097
Additional info

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

I disagree with you because Catalyst's current benchmark exceeded 45k DPS. Damage is not everything to consider on an Elite Spec, utility, survivability, boon generation are way more important factors and trait synergy as well.

Another important factor is a lot of players don't like Catalyst as it is, many of them expected a pure ranged Spec with Rifle or Longbow, not this mid range hybrid which doesn't fit a Spellcaster with the lowest hp in the game. If ArenaNet designers think scholar professions have to be melee mages they should raise every profession's base HP to 15k, except for Warrior and Necro which are balanced around at 19k base HP and give Elementalists better utility options and alacrity (both Elementalists and Mesmers got their magic from the same Goddess so it would make sense).

It does do 45k. 

In the same world harbinger does 48k and bladesworn does 54k... And harbinger brings more utility then catalyst does to begin with. 

I'm sorry but catalyst is vastly low even in PvE realistically... The only reason it looks good in PvE is because how non-meta current ele speccs are. 

But we are still bottom of the barrel when compared to other speccs. I will likely be benching my ele come EoD catalyst isn't fun and Its not because of melee v ranged. 

Proffession feels like core ele with 1 extra button and 0 mechanical change. F5 isn't engaging at all and hammer in itself is poorly designed. 

Im just saying if hammer was a stronger weapon and f5 wasnt as bad as it was the likelyhood is it would get more positive feedback.... It feels super weak.... And even people saying hammer is fun still are saying it's unrealistic to ever use the weapon so it's losing points from both crowds. 

Hammer needs a reshuffle in design. F5 needs to be more flexible and imho the need to add a second mechanic to the elite to make it distinct from core. 

Regardless of design, a large amount of people won't like it. We all want different things and the regardless of what we forums will make it look like most don't want it. No one goes onto forums to say how much they like things they go to forums when they have complaints. 

At the end of the day there's tons of critism surrounding it's strengths and the prep v pay off of its combos and that's directly linked to the balancing of the specc itself.  So there are a % of people who are just unhappy at the speccs performance in content they play. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Aedil.1296]

11 hours ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

As far as the mage fantasy is concerned, go the GW2 Elementalist page.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

 

Read the description, then watch the skill videos over on the right hand side.  Is it surprising people would expect ele to play like a ranged caster rather than some kind of melee?  The ele never lets anything near it in those videos.

Guys seriously you just need to stop criticising Ele players that want to play a proper Ele mage. 

 

As in the link above, Ele is portrait by Anet itself like a classic ranged mage that kills everything before it touches him. 

This is the idea Anet gives about Ele on the OFFICIAL WEBSITE to new players. 

The fact we cannot effectively play like this in the real game unless we just wanna kill mosquitoes it's a true matter of fact. 

 

The biggest problem about Ele is that at release, before the concept of rotations entered the game, Ele was fun as we swapped elements according to the situation we were in and to help the party. 

Nowadays, Ele playstle is swapping elements no stop every 3 second to try to use all possible damage skills, it works like a dot damage split into many skills instead of big damage for each single skill. Therefore it's a must to swap element continuously as the damage skills are divided at least into 2 elements of not more. 

This is were the Ele goes wrong. 

I wish Ele could go back to the old splendor as at release when we actually change attunement for a reason as something is happening on the battlefield. For example if I need damage I will go fire, water to heal, air for CC, and earth for protection (its just an example). 

As of today Ele playstles are:

Core = just useless really

Tempest = overload then swap, if using fresh air trait then swap every 5 secs. 

Weaver = swap ever 3 secs 

 

It would be nice if at least for catalyst they could kitten slow down the need for swapping to do damage and actually make us swap only when needed according what we need on the  battlefield, to adapt to situations. It would be a much more interesting game style. 

In all honesty this would be true for all classes, mindless rotation of always the same skills is just boring. Gw2 has a fantastic combat, imagine if we would use our skills according to what we need on the field instead of a scripted fixed rotation you just memorize and repeat over and over and over again? 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[Aedil.1296]

20 hours ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

I really think you players who are complaining about the Elemental Mage issue are looking over one crucial thing and its the reason why people are getting frustrated with these constant complaints:

You literally can play that archetype if you want too. Nothing is stopping you... Staff and Scepter both fulfill the role of Range Elemental Spell Caster and, guess what, you can use them on ANY of the Elite Specs.

Does it suck that Staff isn't meta? Sure, its a bummer, but nothing is stopping you from using it other than your own unwillingness too. Just because a weapon isn't meta doesn't mean its unusable.  Fractal/Raid groups kicking you? Make your own... play with your friends.... find a guild that doesn't care about the meta because I can promise you that most players here are not playing up to Meta Standards of what Elementalist is even needed too anyway. And I'm sure most here are even talking about open world where literally you can just run off-hand focus and still find a way to complete fights....

It's one thing to go around suggesting that Staff gets a buff, which I wholeheartly agree with. It's also perfectly fine to make arguments for a future ranged spellcaster elite spec.

But its an entirely differently thing to go around the forums thumping your chest saying "I can't play my mage fantasy!!!" when you LITERALLY CAN. It's not that you can't play it, its that you don't want to play it as it is in the game.  I'm sorry if its not up to your standards but that doesn't change the fact that it already exists in the game. You can go hop on any of the elementalist specs, throw full beserker on, grab your staff and Fire Autoattack your hearts content until you die because you let one little Drake get too close. Engaging gameplay.

EDIT: And again, hate to point this out but the majority of Elementalist players up until Catalyst was announced cared more about having a class with better sustainability than a pure glass ranged caster, which it seems was ANets original intent with Catalyst (whether or not they reached that is debatable). It's only because it wasn't range and the whole community got their hopes up that this complaining really happened.

Signed,

Another faithfully playing GW player since 2005 who still wishes Monk was in the game because I  ACTUALLY can't play my Healing Mage Fantasy.

My apologies, it wasn't clear, I will rephrase:

1- we want staff to be updated to incarnate the classic ranged glass cannon please. 

2- the existing e-spec are in desperate need of sustain traits like the other classes have already as we are not all part of the 1% Ele elite club that can survive 1vs5 in wvw (see Cellofrag weaver videos on YouTube) please. 

3- Please Anet if u do not intend to do any of the above, could you at least create a 3rd elite spec that is ranged and has some sustain? (too much I know we don't deserve this right... I'm looking at you other classes). 

 

Thanks! 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[mortrialus.3062]

I said this in the Virtuoso feedback thread, but Virtuoso feels way more like what Eles wanted and were asking for for years, especially in PvP, than a mesmer spec. 

For years and years, Eles wanted a viable pure ranged DPS spec, something that could be a team fight carry in SPvP with it's damage after a the entire lifespan of the game's worth of their only truly great builds they have being either these hybrid things or support.

While the vibe on the forum was that mesmers either wanted a healer/bard spec, or a cloneless throwback to GW1's version of mesmer with heavy control and sabotage and mind games beyond just clones.

And then here comes Virtuoso that is like the very vanilla pure ranged magical DPS class that Eles have wanted, that has none of the elements of sabotage and control that make mesmer mesmer, clones or not.  It's also not a bard or healer that was something a lot of mesmers also really wanted on this forum. 

[Aedil.1296]

8 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

I said this in the Virtuoso feedback thread, but Virtuoso feels way more like what Eles wanted and were asking for for years, especially in PvP, than a mesmer spec. 

For years and years, Eles wanted a viable pure ranged DPS spec, something that could be a team fight carry in SPvP with it's damage after a the entire lifespan of the game's worth of their only truly great builds they have being either these hybrid things or support.

While the vibe on the forum was that mesmers either wanted a healer/bard spec, or a cloneless throwback to GW1's version of mesmer with heavy control and sabotage and mind games beyond just clones.

And then here comes Virtuoso that is like the very vanilla pure ranged magical DPS class that Eles have wanted, that has none of the elements of sabotage and control that make mesmer mesmer, clones or not.  It's also not a bard or healer that was something a lot of mesmers also really wanted on this forum. 

You so right, in fact my intention is to go virtuoso in EoD. It is the only e-spec I liked so far (AKA Ranged Mage....)

Vindi also looked good but got screwed by clunkyness (something that could have easily been resolved with a decent F2 to switch the skills tbh....) 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[TheDarkness.6947]

Part of me wonders if there aren’t getting to be so many especs and available weapon choices that it’s getting nigh on impossible for even a talented dev team to balance them all out.  For example, to keep weaver in check, they may have had to nerf things that effectively reduce the viability of other builds. And each new espec and weapon adds more and more complexity to that equation.

At the moment, there’s really no downside to taking an expac espec, other than giving up a core trait line of your choosing.  I wonder if things would be easier to balance if the minor adept for an espec were a plus minus with respect to the weapon choices.  E.g. “as a weaver, you forgo your training with <weapon> in order to master the sword.”

That may not be popular with players since it would reduce build choices.  But I also speculate that this is possibly already happening. Not because you have hard restrictions on creating a particular build, but because some builds just aren’t very viable.  In the case of ele, this seems to have happened with the very archetype that Anet portrays in its marketing material. And this is obviously an archetype and play style that a subset of ele players would really like to play.

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, Aedil.1296 said:

As in the link above, Ele is portrait by Anet itself like a classic ranged mage that kills everything before it touches him. 

This is the idea Anet gives about Ele on the OFFICIAL WEBSITE to new players. 

The fact we cannot effectively play like this in the real game unless we just wanna kill mosquitoes it's a true matter of fact. 

That makes no sense. Nothing about that link should give you the impression it's a 'classic ranged mage that kills everything before it touches them'. That's not even a reasonable expectation to have because that would be so unreasonably broken to do that, it wouldn't reasonably think it would exist in the game in the first place. It's a true matter of fact you can't play like this because what you think that link says doesn't.

No, that's the idea you want to impose on Anet's definition and as long as you keep doing that, your whole argument about how Ele SHOULD be will continue to be wrong.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[TheDarkness.6947]

31 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense. Nothing about that link should give you the impression it's a 'classic ranged mage that kills everything before it touches them'. That's not even a reasonable expectation to have because that would be so unreasonably broken to do that, it wouldn't reasonably think it would exist in the game in the first place. It's a true matter of fact you can't play like this because what you think that link says doesn't.

No, that's the idea you want to impose on Anet's definition and as long as you keep doing that, your whole argument about how Ele SHOULD be will continue to be wrong.

 

I’ve read many of your posts and you make a lot of great, thought-provoking points.   Sometimes, your retort seems to be based on a very literal interpretation of someone’s words, when I think the intention of those words was to be more illustrative in nature than literal.  

I don’t think anyone is expecting or asking for a ranged ele caster than can literally destroy anything and everything with 1 click from 1200 range.  That’s not only not realistic, but it wouldn’t be much fun because there would be no challenge at all.  We just want the ranged ele caster to be a stronger option than it is today.

[Obtena.7952]

16 minutes ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

 

I’ve read many of your posts and you make a lot of great, thought-provoking points.   Sometimes, your retort seems to be based on a very literal interpretation of someone’s words, when I think the intention of those words was to be more illustrative in nature than literal.  

I don’t think anyone is expecting or asking for a ranged ele caster than can literally destroy anything and everything with 1 click from 1200 range.  That’s not only not realistic, but it wouldn’t be much fun because there would be no challenge at all.  We just want the ranged ele caster to be a stronger option than it is today.

Well, just to be clear, the OP seems to express multiple complaints and it's a little messy. My issue is that there is fundamentally wrong idea that ele is incorrectly conceived by Anet because it doesn't meet the OP's ideas of how 'ranged mage' should work. Players do not influence that level of design and there is only the most general standard that Anet has obviously followed to make the class concepts. There is no right or wrong there, as long as that general standard is followed (and as the OP shows in the link, Anet is quite aware of what the concept is by describing it).

I'm not disagreeing that stronger ranged options are desirable, but the claim that Anet created the class 'wrong' to justify making stronger ranged options certainly doesn't make sense. Personally, I believe that while it's atypical of the class archetype, the limitations on the long range options on ele may actually be intentional, to ensure we don't end up with the kind of class the OP actually describe, as a classic ranged mage that kills everything before it touches them

Edited October 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Xanadrine.4352]

I do not like it, I will not play it, and I doubt I will buy the expansion for a long time to see if anything changes. The classes I play have not anything in EoD for me to look forward to. And still core ele is in the toilet not even giving me that option.