Defiance Bar and Crowd Control effects

[BobbyT.7192]

Can we have another look at the way CCs effects bosses and those with breaker bars.

Mostly talking about how soft CCs effects them.

I don't see a reason why champs and legendaries can't have their attacks reduced by weakness and slow, or a blind can't prevent an attack altogether like aegis can. 

Allowing these conditons would open up more options for support from classes and builds you wouldn't think. (Yes I'm talking about using control as a form of support)

Before anyone saids that these conditions would just trivialize boss encounters, or bosses are not design with weakness or slow in mind. Im just going to say that I dont think most of these bosses are design with 100% quickness, alacrity, etc in mind either, but here we are, so thats not a very good excuse.

You can still have the same breaker bars degen that these CC offer, but allow them to be effective in the way they were intended.

Yes some conditions aren't hard to have 100% uptime in big groups with non condi build, but you can just have it so bosses with Defiance bars get reduced condi duration (the non damaging ones of course), so that those spec with condi duration wwould be able to maintain these conditions

Edited October 3, 2021 by BobbyT.7192

[mindcircus.1506]

Do you really think Open World content needs to be made easier this way?

[Gomes.5643]

Well if we would include that open world bosses wouldnt get a single attack out because they are blindend all the time when 50 players stack blind on them….

Edited October 3, 2021 by Gomes.5643

[Klowdy.3126]

I like the way CC works on break bars. You SHOULDN'T be able to CC anything with boss level power, but it should have some sort of effect on them, as it does now. 

[BobbyT.7192]

3 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Do you really think Open World content needs to be made easier this way?

 

2 hours ago, Gomes.5643 said:

Well if we would include that open world bosses wouldnt get a single attack out because they are blindend all the time when 50 players stack blind on them….

Open work bosses are already pretty easy that this change wouldn't change much anyways

[BobbyT.7192]

10 minutes ago, Klowdy.3126 said:

I like the way CC works on break bars. You SHOULDN'T be able to CC anything with boss level power, but it should have some sort of effect on them, as it does now. 

With that logic, anyone with "boss level power" should ignore block and protection.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

You mean clown control?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

 

Open work bosses are already pretty easy that this change wouldn't change much anyways

Are you trying to tell us that a single player casting a blind on a boss in a meta event, thereby negating an alpha strike on everyone "wouldn't  change much"?

[BobbyT.7192]

39 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Are you trying to tell us that a single player casting a blind on a boss in a meta event, thereby negating an alpha strike on everyone "wouldn't  change much"?

There is plenty of ways to get around your blind issue, yet allow others conditions to be effective

- Reduce duration on non damaging conditions for bosses, so that those specced for condition will be more effective.

- Have it so blinded foes will only missed against the source of the blind (possibly up to 5 allies per source).  Not everyone carries pocket sand in there pants.

- Give bosses more "beta" strikes before they use their "alpha" one to have better odds of them hitting.

- Allow blinds to stack on bosses that will all get used up when they attack. Depending on how many stack it how many players they miss.

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by BobbyT.7192

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

With that logic, anyone with "boss level power" should ignore block and protection.

One effect affects the boss (blind, weakness, slow), the other affects the player/s (aegis, protection). This is not the same logic.

No matter how you look at that, your idea is just a nerf to bosses, which is far from needed in the current state of the game and that's all there is to it.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Tiviana.2650]

11 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Are you trying to tell us that a single player casting a blind on a boss in a meta event, thereby negating an alpha strike on everyone "wouldn't  change much"?

Well tbf how many players even use their cc? I find myself saying CC please! all the time and it does no good anyway. So you can allow stuns w/e on bosses all you want but in the end it wont change how players play.

Now remove the downed mechanic and people will learn..adapt or die. Downed is like a cheese mechanic imo. If you get hit by something that big it should kill you. Not cheese it by self rezzing.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tiviana.2650

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

26 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Now remove the downed mechanic and people will learn..adapt or die. Downed is like a cheese mechanic imo. If you get hit by something that big it should kill you. Not cheese it by self rezzing.

then Anet has to change mechanis. because the game is "designed" around a big zerg killing bosses. some mechanics are unbalanced to the moon and back again.

problem with CC. most player roll with their head over the keyboard. 

[Tiviana.2650]

1 minute ago, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

then Anet has to change mechanis. because the game is "designed" around a big zerg killing bosses. some mechanics are unbalanced to the moon and back again.

problem with CC. most player roll with their head over the keyboard. 

Well tbh so are other games. If you die on a world boss in those games you have to run back to your body or get the option to port back to home base or lay there and hope someone rezzes you. Downed lets you cheese death, and i really dont care for it, it makes people sloppy in gameplay when they know they can rez themselves or let others do it. It also causes other to take damage trying to rez you and sometimes gets them downed. I dont like that mechanic and would rather just get killed outright and wp 

[Westenev.5289]

Honestly, the reason why I hate Breakbars (or the lack thereof) is because it removes any metric to affect the boss besides DPS and the ability to dodge floor telegraphed attacks that are likely covered by an aura of unicorn puke as bright as the sun.

 

That being said, soft cc is kinda spammable, especially in a group of 10-50. I'm pretty sure perma blind application would be kinda OP.

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Now remove the downed mechanic and people will learn..adapt or die. Downed is like a cheese mechanic imo. If you get hit by something that big it should kill you. Not cheese it by self rezzing.

If that will happen, fractals will be 1 hfb and 4 scourges. 

[Naxos.2503]

Bosses already drop like flies though. Even if it would make sense to make them react to these conditions, the fact of the matter is, they wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds if those conditions were active. World bosses in particular are extremely short due to how popular they are.

There would be no challenge in it, and they'd be so short I'm pretty sure a large portion of the playerbase wouldn't be able to participate.

If those effects have to have an effect, they cant be as efficient as they'd be on a normal mob. They'd have to do something completely different, which is a lot of work, for honestly rather little effect, they are already taken down easily, as is pointed out

[BobbyT.7192]

Maybe have immunity for world bosses and big meta event bosses. But trying to solo or small party and they don't get it?

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Bosses already drop like flies though. Even if it would make sense to make them react to these conditions, the fact of the matter is, they wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds if those conditions were active. World bosses in particular are extremely short due to how popular they are.

There would be no challenge in it, and they'd be so short I'm pretty sure a large portion of the playerbase wouldn't be able to participate.

If those effects have to have an effect, they cant be as efficient as they'd be on a normal mob. They'd have to do something completely different, which is a lot of work, for honestly rather little effect, they are already taken down easily, as is pointed out

See: Fire Elemental world boss for example.  😄

[Naxos.2503]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

See: Fire Elemental world boss for example.  😄

Was my thought exactly xD

[Klowdy.3126]

20 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

With that logic, anyone with "boss level power" should ignore block and protection.

That's not true at all. Those are defensive boons, which are applied to the character/s, and I'm talking about the interaction of CC conditions on a very strong enemy. Those two things aren't even remotely the same. 

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

11 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Well tbh so are other games. If you die on a world boss in those games you have to run back to your body or get the option to port back to home base or lay there and hope someone rezzes you

read my post again whats the difference between the games.

[Tiviana.2650]

3 hours ago, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

read my post again whats the difference between the games.

The difference is the range of heal and boon effects. This is one thing that bothers me I dont like having to stack in mele for everything its bad design you cant even see what you are fighting let alone the bad stuff on the ground because everyone ranged mele healers all stack its disorienting and visually horrible looking.

The other difference is in those games you cant cheese death, you go down its called death you dont get a chance to res yourself. Or even worse have the group stop what they are doing and res you, making it likely you will take one of them down with you.

[LindyW.9458]

Talking only about open world, not instances of ANY kind here.

 

Open world bosses can be squishy enough that my mirage can already kill a bunch of the rando champs which spawn in almost any zone.

 

The might sharing, torment build I use doesn't even have much in the way of CC or even AoE damage. 

 

Even my confusion attacks don't seem to make much of a dent in the defiance bar. My reaper or scourge can wreck a bar (not talking about a drinking establishment, that's an IRL situation) with several different skills. My mirage doesn't need to. It's a DPS machine.

 

I understand the desire for all these soft CC skills in your armory to have an effect. They are useless against a champ (I'd love for my reaper's chill to slow a champ) but the temporary knockout you achieve when hard CC breaks the bar is the trade off we make.

Edited October 5, 2021 by LindyW.9458

[Dadnir.5038]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:03 PM, BobbyT.7192 said:

Can we have another look at the way CCs effects bosses and those with breaker bars.

Mostly talking about how soft CCs effects them.

I don't see a reason why champs and legendaries can't have their attacks reduced by weakness and slow, or a blind can't prevent an attack altogether like aegis can. 

Allowing these conditons would open up more options for support from classes and builds you wouldn't think. (Yes I'm talking about using control as a form of support)

Before anyone saids that these conditions would just trivialize boss encounters, or bosses are not design with weakness or slow in mind. Im just going to say that I dont think most of these bosses are design with 100% quickness, alacrity, etc in mind either, but here we are, so thats not a very good excuse.

You can still have the same breaker bars degen that these CC offer, but allow them to be effective in the way they were intended.

Yes some conditions aren't hard to have 100% uptime in big groups with non condi build, but you can just have it so bosses with Defiance bars get reduced condi duration (the non damaging ones of course), so that those spec with condi duration wwould be able to maintain these conditions

 

To put it simply GW2's devs already faced the issue and choose a different solution that allow those conditions to exist yet prevent them from trivializing the game. The devs choose to exploit the trait system making some trait improve the player's character ability when striking or being striken by a foe affected by those conditions that are negated by defiance.