Is Tower Jumping required for the new achievement? (optional now)

[Coelho Nat.4697]

I finally completed terror of the tower. Tips from a very bad jp player:

- It requires a lot of practice, but after I memorized it, I nearly completed 3x in a row.

- 1st part of the jp (before the 1st chest) is worse. You always have to keep moving and jumping. There is no time to think. You really have to memorize all the moves.

- 2nd portion of the jp is easier. You can go a little slow, so there is time to adjust the camera/mouse before hard jumps.

 

Btw, the worst part of this jp is the waiting time after you fail. It is really annoying.

[Veprovina.4876]

Well, according to this thread and people with no disabilities:

We should just git gud and complete the puzzle, and it's perfectly fine for anet to have decided to exclude people with disabilities this year from completing the meta achievement. 

 

Perfect. 

 

[Aerinndis.2730]

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

But if you don’t want to do the Mad King Says, you have no other option just like you have no other option but to do the JP. 
 

You’re essentially comparing apples to oranges. You’re comparing an objective for one achievement to the locations available to complete the objectives of other achievements. You either compare the objectives or the locations separately. You do not mix and match. 

If this is an apples to oranges case then why can't The Outcast Prince achieve also count for the JP part of this whole achievement. That one is a JP in the Labyrinth (West WP is where start is). Granted you only do it once but at least you can take your time jumping to the moving platforms (you do have to watch the pattern of how the platforms go). This one should count as well as maybe an alternative.

[mythical.6315]

1 minute ago, Aerinndis.2730 said:

If this is an apples to oranges case then why can't The Outcast Prince achieve also count for the JP part of this whole achievement. That one is a JP in the Labyrinth (West WP is where start is). Granted you only do it once but at least you can take your time jumping to the moving platforms (you do have to watch the pattern of how the platforms go). This one should count as well as maybe an alternative.

It is its own separate achievement which is unrelated. 

[Veprovina.4876]

7 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Honestly, how many with disabilities are actually excluded and it not actually being a skill level issue in regards to the JP? 

You don't get it do you?

 

Even if it's just 1, it could have been the easiest thing for anet to include as many people as they can in this, but they decided not to by adding a notoriously difficult requirement that most people can't do.

 

It would have been so easy to include as many people as possible by just having the JP have its own separate achievement like every year. So why did they go for the exclusionary approach? 

[Vidit.7108]

4 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Honestly, how many with disabilities are actually excluded and it not actually being a skill level issue in regards to the JP?

This is a very bad way to look at accessibility issues. This is like saying "How many people in wheel chairs can't enter this building because it doesn't have a ramp?" The point is that no alternative exists for the disabled, by conscious design they are being excluded.

I'm not disabled and I struggle very much to do jumping puzzles. I've spent the last hour trying to get progress on the achievement, I'm not able to get any further up the tower than when I started. So for anyone here saying that their disability is a ceiling to developing more skill I very much believe them.

[mythical.6315]

9 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

This is a very bad way to look at accessibility issues. This is like saying "How many people in wheel chairs can't enter this building because it doesn't have a ramp?" The point is that no alternative exists for the disabled, by conscious design they are being excluded.

I'm not disabled and I struggle very much to do jumping puzzles. I've spent the last hour trying to get progress on the achievement, I'm not able to get any further up the tower than when I started. So for anyone here saying that their disability is a ceiling to developing more skill I very much believe them.

So anybody can with a disability can claim that any content is impossible and nobody can question whether it’s the disability causing that?

[mythical.6315]

12 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

You don't get it do you?

 

Even if it's just 1, it could have been the easiest thing for anet to include as many people as they can in this, but they decided not to by adding a notoriously difficult requirement that most people can't do.

 

It would have been so easy to include as many people as possible by just having the JP have its own separate achievement like every year. So why did they go for the exclusionary approach? 

There’s more than enough time to get to that first chest and make progress on the achievement. 

[Silent.6137]

21 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

So anybody can with a disability can claim that any content is impossible and nobody can question whether it’s the disability causing that?

 

20 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

There’s more than enough time to get to that first chest and make progress on the achievement. 

You seem determined to show that all those who failed after repeated attempts are because they are not trying hard enough. 

You, obviously have no problem doing the JP, so it makes me wonder why you are on this thread. To tell those who are having a hard time to just give it up? That, this is not for them?

And, there  are many who have a hard time even getting to the first chest. It may be more than enough time for you, but obviously not for everyone, or there won't be threads like this.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Silent.6137

[Veprovina.4876]

12 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

There’s more than enough time to get to that first chest and make progress on the achievement. 

  

On 10/6/2021 at 1:07 AM, Rogue.8235 said:

 

As someone with a disability, I am aware that different disabilities have different physiological disfunctions and affect different aspects of life.

In my case, no matter how hard I try, I can never see again.  Can't see = can't do the jumping puzzle as there is no way for me to aurally find the platforms to jump to.  

That is, unless, ArenaNet stealth added auditory cues like they did with the races.  I'll have to check, but I don't think they did.  

 

So, how do you propose that I change my mindset to be able to execute a purely visual task with no vision?

 

Tell him that. How much time he has to get to the first chest.

(or her, sorry Rogue, don't know your gender)

[Vidit.7108]

9 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

So anybody can with a disability can claim that any content is impossible and nobody can question whether it’s the disability causing that?

People have questioned and offered advice in this topic. Veprovina in particular has said they have arthritis, I know what arthritis is, so I believe that would impair them.  Whether they are lying or telling the truth about having a disability is no skin off my nose but assuming they are telling the truth it's absolutely possible that would keep them from making quick key presses.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 minute ago, Vidit.7108 said:

People have questioned and offered advice in this topic. Veprovina in particular has said they have arthritis, I know what arthritis is, so I believe that would impair them.  Whether they are lying or telling the truth about having a disability is no skin off my nose but assuming they are telling the truth it's absolutely possible that would keep them from making quick key presses.

Exactly. This also begs the question, what kind of people would lie about a disability, and what kind of people are we to immediately assume thy're lying instead of taking them at face value. 

 

Yes, i have arthritis, and for all i care, for me, maybe the argument could be made that i'm not trying enough.

But what about the ones that literally cant?

 

Anet could have made a decision to include as many people as possible, yet they went and did the opposite. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

It is its own separate achievement which is unrelated. 

The ascent to madness and mad king says achieves are also separate and unrelated achievements. You can't progress one of them with the other activity at all.

[Sobx.1758]

49 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

  

Tell him that. How much time he has to get to the first chest.

(or her, sorry Rogue, don't know your gender)

Notice how his approach is different than yours. He's asking for accessibility systems like auditory cues -an approach, I doubt anyone would have a problem with. Meanwhile you seem to be asking to not include the content in the halloween reward system, because you don't like it. It's very clearly not the same thing.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

53 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

 

You seem determined to show that all those who failed after repeated attempts are because they are not trying hard enough. 

You, obviously have no problem doing the JP, so it makes me wonder why you are on this thread. To tell those who are having a hard time to just give it up? That, this is not for them?

And, there  are many who have a hard time even getting to the first chest. It may be more than enough time for you, but obviously not for everyone, or there won't be threads like this.

Where did I state that they were not trying hard enough?

[mythical.6315]

50 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

People have questioned and offered advice in this topic. Veprovina in particular has said they have arthritis, I know what arthritis is, so I believe that would impair them.  Whether they are lying or telling the truth about having a disability is no skin off my nose but assuming they are telling the truth it's absolutely possible that would keep them from making quick key presses.

It’s not about whether they are lying or not but whether that would actually make it impossible. There are chests before the end which grant progression specifically so players are not required to successfully complete the JP. One of those chests is near the very start. 

[mythical.6315]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The ascent to madness and mad king says achieves are also separate and unrelated achievements. You can't progress one of them with the other activity at all.

They have a connection to the set of achievements that the clock tower chests one is tied to. The other one is a hidden achievement not related to it. There’s a rather big difference. 

[Blanche Neige.7241]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

 One of those chests is near the very start. 

Either we don't have the same definition of what is "the very start" of this jumping puzzle, or we don't start at the same spot.

 

I can go maybe 15 to 20 seconds into the JP, and I have seen no chest anywhere so far.

[mythical.6315]

2 minutes ago, Blanche Neige.7241 said:

Either we don't have the same definition of what is "the very start" of this jumping puzzle, or we don't start at the same spot.

 

I can go maybe 15 to 20 seconds into the JP, and I have seen no chest anywhere so far.

Its to the left after the first handful of jumps on a platform. You generally jump up to it or take the path to the right below it when doing the JP. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Blanche Neige.7241]

15 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Its to the left after the first handful of jumps on a platform. You generally jump up to it or take the path to the right below it when doing the JP. 

 

Thanks. I saw it now. I missed it because like you said it's a bit out of the way, and hard to spot because it's almost the same color as the rock it is on.

[Linken.6345]

44 minutes ago, Blanche Neige.7241 said:

 

Thanks. I saw it now. I missed it because like you said it's a bit out of the way, and hard to spot because it's almost the same color as the rock it is on.

You can loot it from the cog thats to the right of it if you just strafe abit left.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

15 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There are chests here and there about the puzzle with loot. They are meant to cause you to lose due to greed, but it is possible to gather the chests and complete the JP, though I think there is one part way through that you are guaranteed to fail if you try to get it.

Only the second chest requires you to slightly divert from the optimal path, but if you are fast enough you can grab it. The first chest can be grabbed via a generous interact distance while running on the gear near it  and the third, you have to fall onto so you can't really miss it if you get there.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

They have a connection to the set of achievements that the clock tower chests one is tied to. The other one is a hidden achievement not related to it. There’s a rather big difference. 

Now you're being disingenious. On one hand you are saying "those two have a connection, because Anet made an achievement that can be progressed by either, even though before that they did not" but on the other you claim "Anet cannot make an achievement that can be progressed by those two things, because they do not have a connection at the moment".

If we ignore the current set of achievements (seeing as we're talking about potentially modifying those), Descend to Madness and LA's Royal Tradition have about as much in common as Clocktower and the new Labyrinth JP.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Now you're being disingenious. On one hand you are saying "those two have a connection, because Anet made an achievement that can be progressed by either, even though before that they did not" but on the other you claim "Anet cannot make an achievement that can be progressed by those two things, because they do not have a connection at the moment".

If we ignore the current set of achievements (seeing as we're talking about potentially modifying those), Descend to Madness and LA's Royal Tradition have about as much in common as Clocktower and the new Labyrinth JP.

I agree with this however there are no chests to grab in this jump puzzle in the lab so you cant progress the achiv.

[Gorani.7205]

I feel the OP's pain.

What makes it even worse are two additional things in the JP:

1. The chest has the same colour as the stone it is placed upon and that makes it hard to spot (not great for people with disabilities like red/green colour blindness)

2. You can only open the chest once per instance, which means you have to wait even more for the timer, the cinematic and loading times to try to get into another instance.