Do people actually want a pet spec from engineer?

[ThrakathNar.4537]

Looking on the comments below the new spec reveal, it seems pretty obvious that opinion is split on the issue. On one side, people say that this is the best looking spec of the set, with some of the best mechanics. On the other side, people say that this is the worst designed spec, with some of the worst mechanics in game. As someone who personally falls into the latter category, I was wondering what the reason for the difference in opinion was, and from observation of the people on either side of the issue, it generally seemed that people who were less excited for this spec (and specifically the pet mechanic) had been playing the class for shorter (or not at all, in some cases). So I sort of want to figure out what general opinions people have, and why exactly it is people have the opinions they do.

Edited October 21, 2021 by ThrakathNar.4537

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Not an engi main here but did play a lot of it.

Honestly it seems quite interesting but gotta wait until next week to test it.
However, Im quite against any AI-related builds; it fails in some context but OP in another.

[Bleikopf.2491]

19 minutes ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:

Looking on the comments below the new spec reveal, it seems pretty obvious that opinion is split on the issue. On one side, people say that this is the best looking spec of the set, with some of the best mechanics. On the other side, people say that this is the worst designed spec, with some of the worst mechanics in game. As someone who personally falls into the latter category, I was wondering what the reason for the difference in opinion was, and from observation of the people on either side of the issue, it generally seemed that people who were less excited for this spec (and specifically the pet mechanic) had been playing the class for shorter (or not at all, in some cases). So I sort of want to figure out what general opinions people have, and why exactly it is people have the opinions they do.

It's looking good - that mech is a real chad of a golem. But I don't care much about looks.

Personally, I'm an Ele main and I barely play out of my profession. Engineer always interested me though, although it seems that Revenant has taken the spot as off-main class for me. So just that everyone knows that my class knowledge isn't that great and I'm biased.

I haven't seen much about the mechanics of the three medium armor classes yet aside from the trailers. Was anything else revealed apart from their utilities?

Personally I've never been a fan of pet mechanics. You would never get me to roll a Ranger, for that matter. As that, the class mechanic is entirely uninteresting to me.
Signets sound interesting. I'm wondering how much they'll have to do with the Mech. I hope not too much.

For my judgement whether the spec is the worst designed yet I'll wait until the beta. But Catalyst is pretty high on that list for me.

[Amadeus.5687]

I have played Engineer as my main since beta and headstart. My second most played are a Ranger, followed by Mesmer

I hate we are getting AI, I think the fantasy is cool enough, but the overall implementation of AI in this game is simply just bad.  It's been an issue since day one and you can see that on all the AI based proffsion forums, but in special rangers. It's everything from:
- Pathfinding issues 
- Standing and dieing in AoE
- Can't hit moving targets and in general issues with connecting hits

-  Abilitys with major delays

and much more

 

Worse of all is that AI don't fucntion in WvW and following Anets own design; Not allowed in competitive play as a viable build. They have again and again pummeled down builds that were based on AI.

Also it took them 5 years to fix scrapper and it's horrible AI, I can't stand that agian

[Ghos.1326]

I personally don't see a problem with anything AI related. That seems to be another point that is simply regurgitated after hearing it elsewhere.

The issue is with what the AI does, its power level, mobility and capability of sticking to a target and balancing between that and being overbearingly sticky to said target/s, etc.

So until we play with the spec, we won't know. As an Engi main, i'm going to say blank for me.

[MrForz.1953]

I don't trust it. It's cool and all but I do not trust it.

[Naxos.2503]

Regardless of how performant it is, as long as I get to have something different to experiment with, I'll find some satisfaction in it personally. In this particular case, I believe there is potential that isn't necessarily tied to numbers. We'll have to see tomorow

 

[Amadeus.5687]

26 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

I personally don't see a problem with anything AI related. That seems to be another point that is simply regurgitated after hearing it elsewhere.

The issue is with what the AI does, its power level, mobility and capability of sticking to a target and balancing between that and being overbearingly sticky to said target/s, etc.

So until we play with the spec, we won't know. As an Engi main, i'm going to say blank for me.

Try the following:

Make a ranger and bring a 
Go play a match on Skyhammer, try using the jump pads and fighting an enemy using the jump pads
Go fight a match on Kylo, move around at the clocktower with your pet and try  fighting an enemy using the different elevation there

Take your pet to Forest of Niflhel, try bring the pet to the keep and fighting an enemy there

In general bring the pet to a team fight, see how long it last
Take it to WvW, try join a zerg or fight at a tower/keep
Bring it to a GvG fight.

And you will learn pretty fast that it's not just a regurgitated statement; Heck you can just go to the ranger forums and read about their experiences with the AI. 

[mortrialus.3062]

I think having a golem or robot, or mecha is an important part of the engineer class fantasy and it's actually odd that it has taken so long for the game to add that.

[mortrialus.3062]

5 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Try the following:

Make a ranger and bring a 
Go play a match on Skyhammer, try using the jump pads and fighting an enemy using the jump pads
Go fight a match on Kylo, move around at the clocktower with your pet and try  fighting an enemy using the different elevation there

Take your pet to Forest of Niflhel, try bring the pet to the keep and fighting an enemy there

In general bring the pet to a team fight, see how long it last
Take it to WvW, try join a zerg or fight at a tower/keep
Bring it to a GvG fight.

And you will learn pretty fast that it's not just a regurgitated statement; Heck you can just go to the ranger forums and read about their experiences with the AI. 

Rangers in general are doing fine in PvP tho.  

[Amadeus.5687]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Rangers in general are doing fine in PvP tho.  

And? Ranger's could be walking gods and still have major Pet AI issues, which is the point. Not "are rangers viable in PvP"
That said, the only Ranger spec that's doing very well and where the pet plays a major role is the Valkyrie GS A/D duelist, which abuses the River Drake and it's broken overtuned tailswipe. Which is entirely a different discussion. 

[Amadeus.5687]

7 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

I think having a golem or robot, or mecha is an important part of the engineer class fantasy and it's actually odd that it has taken so long for the game to add that.

Also Gyro's where literally small robots and trying to play into that fantasy and they where so bad they reworked them completely. We have been here once already  

[Lynx.9058]

I'll be keeping my Charr Engineer scrapper, but I'm thinking about making a new Asura engineer for this new elite spec.  It looks very golemancer-like.

[Ghos.1326]

1 hour ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Try the following:

Make a ranger and bring a 
Go play a match on Skyhammer, try using the jump pads and fighting an enemy using the jump pads
Go fight a match on Kylo, move around at the clocktower with your pet and try  fighting an enemy using the different elevation there

Take your pet to Forest of Niflhel, try bring the pet to the keep and fighting an enemy there

In general bring the pet to a team fight, see how long it last
Take it to WvW, try join a zerg or fight at a tower/keep
Bring it to a GvG fight.

And you will learn pretty fast that it's not just a regurgitated statement; Heck you can just go to the ranger forums and read about their experiences with the AI. 

The pets seem to last pretty long in Teamsfights that I've seen. I don't know what you're on about but you're either using pets wrong, not using soulbeast, or both.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

As someone who was drawn to this class for wacky designs and ingenuity, I gotta say a huge yes to a AI mech class. This is honestly a given for something engineer should have already had. We do have turrets, but years of neglect have made them very niche in WvW and PvP. People may also be against it because of poor AI issues, but we may actually have ranged or support options for our golems that will make them viable in more ways then just being added numbers that chase a target down poorly.

The thought of having a golem dedicated to supporting allies through resses, condi clears, generating boons, or even healing is exciting when I know I could also swap some traits around and have that same golem apply ranged pressure that would basically be another accessible weapon set while I'm using my mortar or rifle. 

[Amadeus.5687]

4 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

The pets seem to last pretty long in Teamsfights that I've seen. I don't know what you're on about but you're either using pets wrong, not using soulbeast, or both.

 

Soulbeast dosen't count, they don't care if the pet die, cause it respawn when you merge. The entire thing about Soulbeast is they remove the AI from gameplay most of the time. They are the elite spec given to rangers cause they hate their AI pet so much they rather wanna play without it <.<

Ranger pet's don't "seem" to last pretty long in any teamfights.... They die super fast or get CC/crippled/blinded ect

Also you ignored all the examples of places I gave where you quite clearly can see the AI pathfinding being bad at best and bugging out at worst

Edited October 21, 2021 by Amadeus.5687

[Ghos.1326]

Just now, Amadeus.5687 said:

 

Soulbeast dosen't count, they don't care if the pet die, cause it respawn when you merge. The entire thing about Soulbeast is they remove the AI from gameplay most of the time. They are the elite spec given to rangers cause they hate their AI pet so much they rather wanna play without it <.<

Ranger pet's don't "seem" to last pretty long in any teamfights.... They die super fast

No, rangers play soulbeast because it's currently busted and it can free revive pet with little downtime if said pet dies simply by merging pets. actually has nothing to do with the AI being "so bad". Are there some that think this, yes, but I can tell you now the majority like the way the pets are in this game. The AI for pets are vastly more superior than the AI for necro minions.

[Amadeus.5687]

4 minutes ago, Ghos.1326 said:

No, rangers play soulbeast because it's currently busted and it can free revive pet with little downtime if said pet dies simply by merging pets. actually has nothing to do with the AI being "so bad". Are there some that think this, yes, but I can tell you now the majority like the way the pets are in this game. The AI for pets are vastly more superior than the AI for necro minions.

Soulbeast is not busted in PvP, they haven't seen play in the top end for ages. But that's beside the entire freaking point.
My point where AI is bad and you go "But the ranger spec that don't rely on AI don't have troubles with the AI" , no kitten kidding? 
Soulbeast pets also die super fast and get lockdown, they just have a 10 sec CD ress button the rest of the rangers specs have.

Like how did you ignore the entire part about the AI having severe pathfinding issues and not being able to stick to a target and just talk about soulbeast being able to ress their pets? I don't even....

And Necro AI being worse then Ranger AI we can agree on, but that dosen't help Anets track record with bad Ai...

Edit: Go ask the Rangers forums about how "Happy" they are about their AI and how "majority" of them like the way it is lol

Edited October 21, 2021 by Amadeus.5687

[bambi.6214]

People didn't learn from turrets and gyros enough.

[Gibson.4036]

I really like my holosmith, and am more than content to continue playing him.

But maybe for a chill session I'll pop over to Mechanist, slot my elite Asuran Golem, put on 6 superior rune of the golemancer, and pretend to be a Necro.

So yeah, I voted neutral.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[RobinotX.1604]

I mainly play Engineer. This looks like a great spec. Looking forward to it :).

[Ehecatl.9172]

You're asking a question of theme and then trying to answer it with a gameplay discussion. That might be what is making it difficult to understand the other side's opinion.

 

Having a huge robot that your character built and can customize is a MASSIVE chunk of the engineer fantasy that hasn't been made playable yet. People who play engineer for the theme of the class rather than purely the gameplay are going to be excited to be able to explore another avenue of that class fantasy.

 

It is as simple as that. It isn't a matter of "more experienced engineers will hate it" or "only noob engineers want this". It is a matter of what the individual plays the class for in the end. Theme or gameplay. Which itself is a spectrum. I am sure there are tons of engineer mains who are excited for the new theme but are wary of the potential for the gameplay to be bad and thus fall somewhere in the middle of your two poll options.

[Ausar.9542]

6 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Also Gyro's where literally small robots and trying to play into that fantasy and they where so bad they reworked them completely. We have been here once already  

nah Gyros were more like Wells,,,, oh wait,,,,

 

they wasnt very Necro Minion like honestly.

[mortrialus.3062]

8 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

And? Ranger's could be walking gods and still have major Pet AI issues, which is the point. Not "are rangers viable in PvP"
That said, the only Ranger spec that's doing very well and where the pet plays a major role is the Valkyrie GS A/D duelist, which abuses the River Drake and it's broken overtuned tailswipe. Which is entirely a different discussion. 

Well there's clunk

And then there's game breaking unviable.

Ranger right now is the former and has been for a long long time.  Clunk and jank can be dealt with.  As long as the fundamentals are strong it is still viable.  So lets hope Mechanist is the latter. 

[Zzik.5873]

IM SO FREAKING HYPE!!! I main engi for 8 years now. And seen the day 1 we learn of espec, back in pre HoT, I wanted a Golem/Mech espec. I was sad when they give up on gyro. Now gyro are just kind of boring... Yes they are good but nyan, still prefer the og version. But back to Mechanist... OH YAY!!! LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!