So… med kit is junk on Mechanist?

[anduriell.6280]

22 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

And CMC was bloody joking about it. Anet devs are knowingly throwing us under the bus and they laugh about it.

Well let’s hope pets get better before eod launches.

at least the golem looks nice and you can equip a golem with ranged auto attack and the rest support (it will be the best option I think). Not that I am saying the golem will be great either way. 
 

 

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

You cant heal your self with med kit because?

This tells me that you actually don't even bothered to look into the skills of med kit.

The biggest healing contributors in med kit are the auto attack (med blaster) and skill 2 (bandage blast). Both are healing allies only.

The only skill in med kit which also heals the med kit user is skill 4 (vital burst), which even in full healer equip just heals for around 2k every 20 seconds.

About your argument that a support "shouldn't be able to support and heal themselves", again, tell me about just one single support build in this game which just heals themselves with their healing skill on 6 for 2k every 20 seconds.

You can't, because all support builds have a healing skill which heals for way more than that. I guess you are just spouting this because of your personal agenda against engineers, tbh, especially since you have clearly shown to not even have looked at med kit skills and asking instead why med kit can't heal yourself.

[KinkyPotato.4219]

Am I reading this right? The cooldown on Recall Mech scales proportionally with the health percentage of the golem and Crash Down? So if I recall the mech when it's at 50%, it's not a 15 second cooldown (10 second base + 5 extra seconds based on percentage) but 60 seconds?!? (10 second base + 50 extra seconds based on Crash Down)

Also on topic, I have lost complete faith in Anet with the reveal of this expac. These are the worst elite specs I've seen by far and there are WAY too many tradeoffs for gaining miniscule benefits. Losing toolbelts on engineers is awful in that the class was balanced around their existence (including Med Kit's heal). Removing that AND tying an absurd cooldown on the golem recall means that you'll be fighting with only two trait rows for a long time if you need to recall your golem.

Edited October 24, 2021 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Jski.6180]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This tells me that you actually don't even bothered to look into the skills of med kit.

The biggest healing contributors in med kit are the auto attack (med blaster) and skill 2 (bandage blast). Both are healing allies only.

The only skill in med kit which also heals the med kit user is skill 4 (vital burst), which even in full healer equip just heals for around 2k every 20 seconds.

About your argument that a support "shouldn't be able to support and heal themselves", again, tell me about just one single support build in this game which just heals themselves with their healing skill on 6 for 2k every 20 seconds.

You can't, because all support builds have a healing skill which heals for way more than that. I guess you are just spouting this because of your personal agenda against engineers, tbh, especially since you have clearly shown to not even have looked at med kit skills and asking instead why med kit can't heal yourself.

Its not a good heal but the med kit not about healing you its about healing other ppl. You can still blast the water field and get reg from that same blast skill.

[Amadeus.5687]

41 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its not a good heal but the med kit not about healing you its about healing other ppl. You can still blast the water field and get reg from that same blast skill.

You blatantly ignore the Issuse Kodama and many other people are raising; The removal of toolbelt ability's is not a prober thought out  "trade off", cause it quite literally leave us some utility skills broken and not functioning. 
Medkit is a healing skill first and foremost. It's also a weapon kit, something we have paid our own weapon swap for. Not they have removed the healing skill part of it without a replacement when playing Mechanist.  It's a huge deal  

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

You blatantly ignore the Issuse Kodama and many other people are raising; The removal of toolbelt ability's is not a prober thought out  "trade off", cause it quite literally leave us some utility skills broken and not functioning. 
Medkit is a healing skill first and foremost. It's also a weapon kit, something we have paid our own weapon swap for. Not they have removed the healing skill part of it without a replacement when playing Mechanist.  It's a huge deal  

I think the ideal is to have a added character in a fight that has near equal ability to do dmg or support with its own set of utility and skills to replace your tool-belt. This is the first "true pet" added to the game for a class its a significance add on for a class.

This is also a talk about med kit is a very powerful support tool more then it is a self healing effect. Even with the F1 it was not that great at healing the eng on its own but it IS a self heal (all be it week) a blast with 3 "ok" boons and a pAoE condi clear that is also a water field. A lot of other classes would kill for such a healing skill effect.

[Amadeus.5687]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think the ideal is to have a added character in a fight that has near equal ability to do dmg or support with its own set of utility and skills to replace your tool-belt. This is the first "true pet" added to the game for a class its a significance add on for a class.

This is also a talk about med kit is a very powerful support tool more then it is a self healing effect. Even with the F1 it was not that great at healing the eng on its own but it IS a self heal (all be it week) a blast with 3 "ok" boons and a pAoE condi clear that is also a water field. A lot of other classes would kill for such a healing skill effect.

 

The problem is that pet will never be near equal to a player, in special thanks to how combat function in GW2. In PvE it might be able to pump out enough dmg, time will tell. But in PvP and WvW it will never be allowed to do that much dmg.

It doesn't really bring utility either, the mech commands are all just attacks and most of them CC. There is no healing, stunbreak ect. to get from it, something that's quite important for us Engineers to have from Tool Belt. Likewise there is very little "flexibility" in which mech commands you bring; Your foced into the condition dmg command if you play condition dmg, because that is how the traits make it scale with your condition dmg, even If I rather wanted another Mech command.

 
One of the reasons Elixir Gun is such a great weapon kit in PvP and WvW is the Tool Belt slot comes with a stun break. This is now lost.
Med kit is an amazing healing/support skill, not gonna deny that. But one of the fun things about elite specs used to be how they would also interact with our core traits and utility; Mechanist severely limit our utility picks from core.

[Dracomet.3648]

10 hours ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

 just don't play mechanist if you want to be a support healer or whatever 

Mmmhmmm, don’t go support Mechanist to play support.

 

Don’t go to Pizza Hut for Pizza either.

 

Sounds right to me!

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

 

The problem is that pet will never be near equal to a player, in special thanks to how combat function in GW2. In PvE it might be able to pump out enough dmg, time will tell. But in PvP and WvW it will never be allowed to do that much dmg.

It doesn't really bring utility either, the mech commands are all just attacks and most of them CC. There is no healing, stunbreak ect. to get from it, something that's quite important for us Engineers to have from Tool Belt. Likewise there is very little "flexibility" in which mech commands you bring; Your foced into the condition dmg command if you play condition dmg, because that is how the traits make it scale with your condition dmg, even If I rather wanted another Mech command.

 
One of the reasons Elixir Gun is such a great weapon kit in PvP and WvW is the Tool Belt slot comes with a stun break. This is now lost.
Med kit is an amazing healing/support skill, not gonna deny that. But one of the fun things about elite specs used to be how they would also interact with our core traits and utility; Mechanist severely limit our utility picks from core.

We are not sure how much power etc.. the pet will have atm we know it will get a good bit from your build if you trait it in such a way. I think all of these elite spec we are getting with EoD are pve aimed and not even close to balanced for pvp and wvw (from what i understand we are not even getting a wvw update till a few weeks after EoD lands i have no ideal when the next spvp update will be).

It dose just different type of utility of boons barrier soft and hard cc. More of utility to use before an effect not after the fact.

Elixir gun in such a great wepon because it has 2 strong clear skills that out preforms every thing else in the game for clearing condis as well as a blast / unblockable skill that last for a long time during a fight and often dose good dmg when holding a point. Even the 1 skill weakness spam is beyond what most classes can pull off. The stun brake form the belt is nice to have but because of its long cd it was often not the best means of dealing with a stun.

[Amadeus.5687]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

We are not sure how much power etc.. the pet will have atm we know it will get a good bit from your build if you trait it in such a way. I think all of these elite spec we are getting with EoD are pve aimed and not even close to balanced for pvp and wvw (from what i understand we are not even getting a wvw update till a few weeks after EoD lands i have no ideal when the next spvp update will be).

 

It dose just different type of utility of boons barrier soft and hard cc. More of utility to use before an effect not after the fact.

 

Elixir gun in such a great wepon because it has 2 strong clear skills that out preforms every thing else in the game for clearing condis as well as a blast / unblockable skill that last for a long time during a fight and often dose good dmg when holding a point. Even the 1 skill weakness spam is beyond what most classes can pull off. The stun brake form the belt is nice to have but because of its long cd it was often not the best means of dealing with a stun.

I think you are 100% right about most of the new elite specs will be PvE centered and Mechanist very much so.  But I also think that is why it's getting so heavy backlash from the community; all of us WvWer and PvPer feels very left out with how they designed this spec.
 

It does offer different utility, but's it's very limited in how you pick and choose that utility, see my last post about how it's all linked together within the traits. Even if I wanted the Mech command that gives Alarcity as a condition dmg player, I can't, cause i'm forced into top row 2 so it scale with condition dmg.

I said one of the reasons, elixir gun is an amazing weapon kit and we agree on all the good things about it. But the stun break utility skill on 28 sec CD is amazing and a big reason you allmost always can fit it into your loadout for WvW and PvP 🙂

[Jski.6180]

11 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

I think you are 100% right about most of the new elite specs will be PvE centered and Mechanist very much so.  But I also think that is why it's getting so heavy backlash from the community; all of us WvWer and PvPer feels very left out with how they designed this spec.
 

It does offer different utility, but's it's very limited in how you pick and choose that utility, see my last post about how it's all linked together within the traits. Even if I wanted the Mech command that gives Alarcity as a condition dmg player, I can't, cause i'm forced into top row 2 so it scale with condition dmg.

I said one of the reasons, elixir gun is an amazing weapon kit and we agree on all the good things about it. But the stun break utility skill on 28 sec CD is amazing and a big reason you allmost always can fit it into your loadout for WvW and PvP 🙂

Well ya i know the feeling i find that raids and classes being balanced for raids messed up the over all balancing of the game years ago. There always been an on going backlash from the community from HoT on-wards.

Its a different type of utility is all if we could get the pet to rez the eng much like a ranger pet can that would be great and there is room for stun brakes from the pet. Sadly anet only has 3 skills i think is more because they used ranger pet as the temple and i guess that is the limitation of rangers pets.

Most ppl use the elixir gun in wvw for the clears we are talking 25 condis from Fumigate that moves with you (yet dose not hit you) and 55 condis from Super Elixir (this dose not move with you so it may not hit that 55 number but this condi clear skill can hit you). Other classes do not have this at all even med kit falls into kits on eng are so powerfully they can fill rolls with out there tool belt effect.

That what the new pet eng class is going to be a pet that fills a full roll or near a full roll with the eng filling a roll with its kits AT the cost of felxabitly of losing its tool belt skills.

[Amadeus.5687]

9 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Well ya i know the feeling i find that raids and classes being balanced for raids messed up the over all balancing of the game years ago. There always been an on going backlash from the community from HoT on-wards.
 

Its a different type of utility is all if we could get the pet to rez the eng much like a ranger pet can that would be great and there is room for stun brakes from the pet. Sadly anet only has 3 skills i think is more because they used ranger pet as the temple and i guess that is the limitation of rangers pets.
 

Most ppl use the elixir gun in wvw for the clears we are talking 25 condis from Fumigate that moves with you (yet dose not hit you) and 55 condis from Super Elixir (this dose not move with you so it may not hit that 55 number but this condi clear skill can hit you). Other classes do not have this at all even med kit falls into kits on eng are so powerfully they can fill rolls with out there tool belt effect.
 

That what the new pet eng class is going to be a pet that fills a full roll or near a full roll with the eng filling a roll with its kits AT the cost of felxabitly of losing its tool belt skills.

Yeah balance around raids for PvE were messy 😕

I mean I would be all in for the Mech being far more versatile and having more mech commands to pick and choose form. Like give it 4 mech commands and link mech commands to our utility equipped, a true replacement for toolbelt, then we are talking 🙂

Oh yeah for sure, elixir gun in zerg/GvG WvW is an amazing condi cleanse tool. But many roamers and duelist in WvW/sPvP also use it simply because it's such a strong weapon kit that comes with a stun break.

Minor detail tho, Super Elixir only condi cleanse on the impact, not when it pulses 🙂 You can ofc blast it for more condi cleanse, but it does not pulse condition cleanse.

[Jski.6180]

14 minutes ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Yeah balance around raids for PvE were messy 😕

I mean I would be all in for the Mech being far more versatile and having more mech commands to pick and choose form. Like give it 4 mech commands and link mech commands to our utility equipped, a true replacement for toolbelt, then we are talking 🙂

Oh yeah for sure, elixir gun in zerg/GvG WvW is an amazing condi cleanse tool. But many roamers and duelist in WvW/sPvP also use it simply because it's such a strong weapon kit that comes with a stun break.

Minor detail tho, Super Elixir only condi cleanse on the impact, not when it pulses 🙂 You can ofc blast it for more condi cleanse, but it does not pulse condition cleanse.

I would not mind seeing 5 skills but i think that simply the best anet can do using the ranger pet set up.

I always was under the impression it was a clear every pulse my error.

[Amadeus.5687]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

I would not mind seeing 5 skills but i think that simply the best anet can do using the ranger pet set up.

I always was under the impression it was a clear every pulse my error.

 

I blame Super Elixir Tooltip, it's really badly worded and when you just read it it sounds like it does indeed pulse condition clear.  🙂

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 hours ago, Dracomet.3648 said:

Mmmhmmm, don’t go support Mechanist to play support.

 

Don’t go to Pizza Hut for Pizza either.

 

Sounds right to me!

Outpizza the hut! 

🤯🍕😳

[Renny.6571]

Its not even debatable that toolbelt should at least be accessible when the golem is stowed. You're already sacrificing a whole specialization slot when there's no golem on field, that should be a satisfactory tradeoff by itself.

[azarhal.3086]

7 hours ago, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

Am I reading this right? The cooldown on Recall Mech scales proportionally with the health percentage of the golem and Crash Down? So if I recall the mech when it's at 50%, it's not a 15 second cooldown (10 second base + 5 extra seconds based on percentage) but 60 seconds?!? (10 second base + 50 extra seconds based on Crash Down)

The tooltips says +1% recharge rate per 1% of health missing, but it doesn't act as if the base cooldown is 10 seconds. 

It looks more like it's doing +1 second per 1% health missing added to 10 seconds capping at 100 seconds. We should put that up as a bug once beta start, because either the tooltip is wrong or how it is implemented is.

Edited October 24, 2021 by azarhal.3086

[santenal.1054]

15 minutes ago, azarhal.3086 said:

The tooltips says +1% recharge rate per 1% of health missing, but it doesn't act as if the base cooldown is 10 seconds. 

It looks more like it's doing +1 second per 1% health missing added to 10 seconds capping at 100 seconds. We should put that up as a bug once beta start, because either the tooltip is wrong or how it is implemented is.

I think it means:

100-90% remaining health => 10 second cooldown

90%-0% remaining health => cooldown (s) = (100-remaining health percentage) 

Edited October 24, 2021 by santenal.1054

[Obtena.7952]

15 hours ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

When the entire community of theorycrafters are sitting here saying, "Uhh, hey.. this doesn't work. Someone needs to see what they've just done wrong here, here, here, and here, and fix it before anything here is workable.", that's generally a good sign that roleplayers need to step down and stop trying to say, "No, wait and see how it'll all be, it'll be great!", or, as in your case, "Well get used to it because YOU don't get a say!"

Go kill another game with your false machismo. At least the devs DO read the forums and are likely making notes from all the comments the theorycrafters are saying that will be address after the beta.

You're welcome for us fighting against you and making sure the devs hear what we have to say.

You can SAY it all you like, but you're making the assumption Anet didn't know this would happen. What makes you think that? I'm pretty sure they are aware of the impact the espec has on toolbelt skills, including Med Kit. I'm almost willing to bet ... they wanted this impact, otherwise they would have found a solution to keep the toolbelt. 

I mean, your whole argument is that Anet is implementing something they don't want ... that makes no sense does it?

Edited October 24, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[MatyrGustav.6210]

This honestly has a Simple fix. Anet could Swap Bandage Self with Vital Burst. Vital burst seems more like a toolbelt skill to me anyway. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by MatyrGustav.6210

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I think we should wait and see if they change med kit on Tuesday. I think it quite likely.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

29 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, your whole argument is...

All this is intended to be feedback, not an argument.  Trying to turn it into an argument doesn't help anything.  It makes sense that people are excited about Mechanist and are invested in it living up to that hype.  However, that investment becomes toxic when it compels people to attack feedback because it threatens their hype.  Player feedback and beta tests are a free resource to Anet, and trying to disrupt that resource because of belief in an outcome is counterproductive.

Feedback has helped shaped the game.  Anet has hundreds of thousands of player eyes out there ready to catch details or to make observations that might otherwise be missed.  Being a true believer and attacking that feedback does not help... it just makes the forum toxic and makes it harder for Anet to sort out the feedback they want.

3 minutes ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

I think we should wait and see if they change med kit on Tuesday. I think it quite likely.

We are all waiting to see what Anet does.  That is not a reason to squash the discussion of the issues on the table.  We don't know what said in this forum will be considered valuable by Anet.  Let the feedback flow freely until the beta test changes the landscape, and then the cycle can begin again.

[Obtena.7952]

35 minutes ago, Random Wax Orc.7695 said:

All this is intended to be feedback, not an argument. 

So you think telling Anet they "removed toolbelt" is good feedback? Why? You think they didn't know they did that? You didn't think they anticipated the backlash from some people? 

Sure, give feedback, but make it count. Don't complain about the obvious impacts and think it's a compelling reason for Anet to reconsider the design. 

Frankly, people are missing out on real issues with the spec. I'm holding back on commenting until I can play it, but IMO, there are potentially more significant issues than the loss of  two toolbelt skills.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So you think telling Anet they "removed toolbelt" is good feedback?

Strawman and argumentative.  There is extensive discussion on this matter, and none of it relies on mindreading Anet or claims of special knowledge.  Anet reconsidered Rev weapon swap on much less than what has been discussed with regards to the toolbelt.  Telling people they should abstain from feedback because others, like you, know better is not the purpose of this forum.

If I say to Anet that my Mech needs cat ears or bunny ears, it is not feedback to argue against Mech ears.  Anet can decide if it is a waste of time, or a cute idea they like.  Arguing against it just creates noise that makes it harder for Anet to find the good feedback.  We are not here to squash feedback, but to each give our best feedback.

[Teddy Bommer.5642]

I think devs could easily fix this toolbelt problem as they did on any other engi elite spec : F5. Scrapper and Holo trade F5 toolbelt for spec special button. Why not Mechanist ?

 

F1-F3 could stay as Mech command and F4 Crash down then...

F5 : "Switch mode" - no activation time - no CD - Switch between Remote controlled (mech command skills) and Auto-pilot (toolbelt skills).

 

Otherwise, F5 could switch Mech command skills on 1-5 buttons (instead of F1-F4) as any other kit or photon forge do. So F1-F4 would stay as toolbelt skills and moreover Crash down and remove mech could be on separated buttons.

 

Of course as Engi can still use toolbelt skills, numbers on Mech should be adjusted.

 

What could be wrong with this ? Can't see our CDs on Mech Command while in toolbelt ? Big deal, never seen CDs on kits, engi deal with it for years.

To many buttons to press ? Joke, see Condi core or Condi Holo piano style...

 

Hope this will help to find an issue or could be a line of thought.