"New" Kaineng

[Poormany.4507]

One thing that jumped out to me in the new livestream schedule is the map called New Kaineng. Given that Echovald Forest was changed to Echovald Wilds (likely due to the renewed plant growth since GW1), I am wondering if anyone has any speculation of why Kaineng was renamed to New Kaineng and what happened to the "Old" Kaineng from GW1?

[Danikat.8537]

One possibility is that it's the same as Lion's Arch. When Zhaitain raised Orr from the seabed it caused a massive tidal wave which obliterated the Battle Isles and flooded Lion's Arch and other coastal areas. Kaineng is further away, but tidal waves can travel a very long way and still do a lot of damage so it could have wiped out a large part of the city as well.

The other possibility I can think of is that at the end of GW1 the Ministry of Purity were working their way through an ever increasing list of changes they deemed necessary to 'restore' Cantha to what they thought it should be, and it's possible that involved tearing down large parts of the city and rebuilding, there were a lot of slums so maybe they've been replaced with something more organised.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 10/24/2021 at 3:08 PM, Poormany.4507 said:

One thing that jumped out to me in the new livestream schedule is the map called New Kaineng. Given that Echovald Forest was changed to Echovald Wilds (likely due to the renewed plant growth since GW1), I am wondering if anyone has any speculation of why Kaineng was renamed to New Kaineng and what happened to the "Old" Kaineng from GW1?

Simply put... we don't know.

And in fact, we don't know that it was renamed.

When Lion's Arch was rebuilt, it was not called "New Lion's Arch", it's simply still Lion's Arch.

However, we have New Loamhurst in Lake Doric... and it's not at the same location as Loamhurst. Very similar to IRL situations of New York and New Jersey - places named after other, older locations.

 

So is New Kaineng City the same location as Kaineng City, or was it a second city built in a different location? Given our maps are Shing Jea, Echovald, and Jade Sea, maybe New Kaineng City is that blotch of urban area to the west of the Echovald? Or maybe a new city built in part of the Echovald (splitting GW1's Echovald into Echovald Wilds and New Kaineng)? This would make sense with our implied progression of Shing Jea -> Harvest Temple. Unless ArenaNet is just going to have us literally retread our old path, it'd make more sense to head to Harvest Temple from the west coast, rather than the northern coast - and since we're only getting 4 maps (so far), the west coast also makes more sense to progress from on the mainland for the amount of space required for these maps, without having massive gaps.

 

Or if it is Kaineng City being renamed to New Kaineng City because it was reconstructed - we know Zhaitan's rise caused the Battle Isles to be wiped out, and the world map in the Durmand Priory depicts northern Kaineng City as being flooded, too. So they might have needed to rebuild much of Kaineng City due to the flood, and decided to call the rebuilt portion New Kaineng City.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:08 PM, Poormany.4507 said:

One thing that jumped out to me in the new livestream schedule is the map called New Kaineng. Given that Echovald Forest was changed to Echovald Wilds (likely due to the renewed plant growth since GW1), I am wondering if anyone has any speculation of why Kaineng was renamed to New Kaineng and what happened to the "Old" Kaineng from GW1?

Looking as concept art for EoD, and the map from the Priory in LWS2, it appears that large parts of Kaineng city got flooded. Likely due to the rising of Orr. The development and use of skiffs as a major feature in the expansion would support this suggestion as well.

The city is "new" likely because its fundamentally different from what it was before.

 

[EdwinLi.1284]

I expect new Kaineng to be very high tech city due to advancement of their technology with Jade Tech but they build over old Kaineng.

The Undercity probably got worse though since they may have prioritize building over the old locations from GW1.

I had a feeling as the years went by the City of Cantha may have built upward and by doing so build better and more high tech buildings but the old locations from GW1 became more run down due to less maintenance as the Ministry focused more on building newer and more high tech city over the old city.

this also means the City of Cantha may also have a extra higher levels compared to GW1 where all the new buildings and stuff are located while the old GW1 locations are now all underground below the New City locations.

Edited October 29, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

49 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I expect new Kaineng to be very high tech city due to advancement of their technology with Jade Tech but they build over old Kaineng.

The Undercity probably got worse though since they may have prioritize building over the old locations from GW1.

I had a feeling as the years went by the City of Cantha may have built upward and by doing so build better and more high tech buildings but the old locations from GW1 became more run down due to less maintenance as the Ministry focused more on building newer and more high tech city over the old city.

this also means the City of Cantha may also have a extra higher levels compared to GW1 where all the new buildings and stuff are located while the old GW1 locations are now all underground below the New City locations.

I hope you're wrong about Cantha being "High-Tech", not interested in a Asian-Cyberpunk setting in GW (or any Cyberpunk for that matter).  More than a few people that recently have been bringing up the 250 year time difference between the two games seem to think that GW1 was set in the 1700s or something.

[EdwinLi.1284]

27 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I hope you're wrong about Cantha being "High-Tech", not interested in a Asian-Cyberpunk setting in GW (or any Cyberpunk for that matter).  More than a few people that recently have been bringing up the 250 year time difference between the two games seem to think that GW1 was set in the 1700s or something.

We can't compare how fast their technology can affect their standard building design to our world since their world's experience is far different from our world but we can learn a bit how acceptance and resistance towards advancement in technology can affect standards of living and what is used in building design and daily life. Advancements in society varies greatly on not only what kind of advancements but how much of it is accepted easily or not. 

Jade tech is a advancement that changed Cantha greatly and if it is accepted quite well enough then it may become standard technology used for living. However, not being accept so much will lead the the standard design of buildings and daily life to remain mostly the same. 

Shing Jea Islands, as a example, maintains a lot of its life style from old Cantha because they do not adapt Jade tech into their daily life so easily but focus more on life style of old Cantha ways.

However, in Cantha City, Jade tech maybe more used to a point it is a everyday thing to use so buildings and technology used there is probably more high tech due to how much the jade tech made life easier for people living in the city. The newer locations are most likely more jade tech focused since they may still build over older parts of the city instead of refurbishing and replacing the older parts of the city with the newer parts and due to how Jade tech is more accepted in the City life.

Edited October 29, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

No, I absolutely can compare them, I have the right to my own expectations and how far I my suspension of disbelief can go...and it doesn't go so far as to accept going from mid-Middle Ages to Cyberpunk in only 250 years.  Plus its my understanding that this Jade tech is pretty new, too new to completely replace the design of the city.

[Fueki.4753]

I hope it won't have much of the Cyberpunk aesthetics outside of very few jade facilities.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

12 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

We can't compare how fast their technology can affect their standard building design to our world since their world's experience is far different from our world but we can learn a bit how acceptance and resistance towards advancement in technology can affect standards of living and what is used in building design and daily life. Advancements in society varies greatly on not only what kind of advancements but how much of it is accepted easily or not. 

Jade tech is a advancement that changed Cantha greatly and if it is accepted quite well enough then it may become standard technology used for living. However, not being accept so much will lead the the standard design of buildings and daily life to remain mostly the same. 

Shing Jea Islands, as a example, maintains a lot of its life style from old Cantha because they do not adapt Jade tech into their daily life so easily but focus more on life style of old Cantha ways.

However, in Cantha City, Jade tech maybe more used to a point it is a everyday thing to use so buildings and technology used there is probably more high tech due to how much the jade tech made life easier for people living in the city. The newer locations are most likely more jade tech focused since they may still build over older parts of the city instead of refurbishing and replacing the older parts of the city with the newer parts and due to how Jade tech is more accepted in the City life.

Technology advancement is pretty much expected at this point in time, but if New Kaineng is some neon-light filled city that is virtually indistinguishable from the stereotypical cyberpunk look, but jade-focused and without internet, it'd be a bit too far.

Cyberpunk aesthetics like neon-lights and the such would be a bit much by any standard.

 

There's dialogue from NPCs in the Shing Jea stream that pretty much confirm that "city life" is very, very different from traditional Cantha, with jade lights, so we can expect some jade magitech.

 

At most, I could see New Kaineng being on par to Rata Sum, which has a pretty solid lack of cyberpunkness, but greener and with some Korean (as that seems to be the go-to reference point we're seeing the most of in EoD Cantha) influences. And I'm hoping that's the direction ArenaNet is going, based off of the jade waypoints and jade mechs (though I am really disliking calling them "mechs" because the aesthetic is pure magical construct, and mech is short for mechanical and those jade "mechs" are very much not mechanical in their appearance.

 

All this to say that there is a very wide difference between Rata Sum and going sci-fi - cyberpunk or otherwise - and it'd be a huge dissonance, especially with Jade magitech being within 250 years old (if not much younger as implied), if New Kaineng ends up being reminiscent of sci-fi / cyberpunk setting aesthetics.

[hugo.4705]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:34 AM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I hope you're wrong about Cantha being "High-Tech", not interested in a Asian-Cyberpunk setting in GW (or any Cyberpunk for that matter).  More than a few people that recently have been bringing up the 250 year time difference between the two games seem to think that GW1 was set in the 1700s or something.

On the contrary, I hope new kainerg will be high tech jade punk and neons while its sewer/underground system is filled with pipes, machinery and aetherblade. Definitely expect that after the neons artworks we had. If new kainerg is rustic and traditional, I ask for a refund . I purchased eod because of jade tech aetherblades in the trailers and those artworks. 

Shing jea, echovald, jade sea, tradituonal, like in gw1 if you want  but nah, high tech new kainerg.

It is called new kainerg, it makes thinking about New york or New lumos in miitopia: skycrappers neon cities, metal dystopian modern  skyscrapper everywhere.

Anet wouldn't have bothered with those noce looking neons, jade tech pillars and temple covered of pipes if it is not a majority of the map.

 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I certainly intend to continue holding off purchasing EoD until more is shown and if Anet jumps the shark and turns Kaineng into cyberpunk, combined with such things as fishing as a major feature and scepters on thief, etc. I'll likely not spend money on the expansion.

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I certainly intend to continue holding off purchasing EoD until more is shown and if Anet jumps the shark and turns Kaineng into cyberpunk, combined with such things as fishing as a major feature and scepters on thief, etc. I'll likely not spend money on the expansion.

I not trying to be rude to you but I have to say this. 

I feel not getting the expansion just because Cantha society did not develop the way you wanted it to is a bit extreme just to preserve the idea of how you wanted Cantha to advance over what was chosen. 

We don't know how long Cantha had jade tech (could have founded it over a hundred years ago for all we know) and it is common for new technology to affect development of daily life if it is more accepted usually based on how many years when it was introduced and how people react to it. We have known left over Asura tech is left in Cantha when it was in Isolation so it is expect they would have also dug into a bit of the left over asura tech with the new Jade tech as well. This would have affected technology advancement during their isolation stage since asura tech was already a head of its time during GW1 era before Jade tech was discovered.

Also, as Hugo said, there are hints that Cantha city has gone through some high tech development in the arts shown in GW2 EoDs. We can see a bit of it in background arts of Canthan buildings and seeing even neon light signs. Not to mention, as I said, not all of Cantha City should be high tech, only the newer parts which should be limited to very few locations such as New Kaineng. The older parts of Cantha City should still be very close to GW1 era design or the designs you are hoping to see since these areas should not have been influenced much by Jade tech nor other technology advancements.

Edited October 30, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:59 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

I hope it won't have much of the Cyberpunk aesthetics outside of very few jade facilities.

yeah to me cyberpunk ruined LS1

[The Greyhawk.9107]

11 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I not trying to be rude to you but I have to say this. 

I feel not getting the expansion just because Cantha society did not develop the way you wanted it to is a bit extreme just to preserve the idea of how you wanted Cantha to advance over what was chosen. 

We don't know how long Cantha had jade tech (could have founded it over a hundred years ago for all we know) and it is common for new technology to affect development of daily life if it is more accepted usually based on how many years when it was introduced and how people react to it. We have known left over Asura tech is left in Cantha when it was in Isolation so it is expect they would have also dug into a bit of the left over asura tech with the new Jade tech as well. This would have affected technology advancement during their isolation stage since asura tech was already a head of its time during GW1 era before Jade tech was discovered.

Also, as Hugo said, there are hints that Cantha city has gone through some high tech development in the arts shown in GW2 EoDs. We can see a bit of it in background arts of Canthan buildings and seeing even neon light signs. Not to mention, as I said, not all of Cantha City should be high tech, only the newer parts which should be limited to very few locations such as New Kaineng. The older parts of Cantha City should still be very close to GW1 era design or the designs you are hoping to see since these areas should not have been influenced much by Jade tech nor other technology advancements.

Don't strawman me, I explicitly said that I'd pass on EoD for multiple reasons, not solely because of Kaineng. Vanishingly little I've heard about EoD has been of interest to me and a few, including but not limited to the Scepter thieves and fishing being this apparent major mastery, are outright galling.  I'm tired of being disappointed.

[EdwinLi.1284]

6 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

yeah to me cyberpunk ruined LS1

Season 1 was steampunk, not cyberpunk.

[EdwinLi.1284]

2 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Don't strawman me, I explicitly said that I'd pass on EoD for multiple reasons, not solely because of Kaineng. Vanishingly little I've heard about EoD has been of interest to me and a few, including but not limited to the Scepter thieves and fishing being this apparent major mastery, are outright galling.  I'm tired of being disappointed.

In honesty, I feel you are only playing now out of hope the game may take a direction you prefer rather than you actually enjoying the game.

I really don't know what you are even looking for in GW2 currently nor when was the last time you actually enjoyed GW2 and the content it released. Ever consider just stop playing GW2 and move on since it is not taking the direction you would have prefered both gameplay and lore wise or atleast return once something creates enough interests? Forcing yourself to continue playing the game when you no longer enjoy it (which I don't know when was the last time you actually enjoyed GW2) is harmful because you're just building up anger for each thing you are disappointed with. 

However, that is just my opinion since I don't stick around games that has long lost my interests due to difference of preference with how the developers want to develop the game.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[radda.8920]

I do not understand the point of returning to cantha if it is to totally destroy the style and the soul of this continent.

Obviously there must be changes during 250 years but if it is to go back there and not recognize the place, I do not understand ...if they did EOD on cantha, it was to bring back lots of fanboys . So if cantha no longer has anything in common with guild wars 1, many players will be disappointed.

If it was to do something totally different, you might as well leave cantha aside and go to a totally different place. Space is not lacking on the world map...

 

Shing jea already has nothing to do with the original, it's even uglier than before. So if it's to bring back some futuristic kaineng and the jade sea with ugly fluorescent green (when we see the jade color of the golem of the new engineer specialization), it's going to be hopeless.

Kaineng on guild wars1 had something unique, a real originality, if it is to make something generic and bland already seen in many video games, it's sad.

And please stop putting this green everywhere, it is one of the most unpleasant colors to look at apart from the vegetation .. for example the jade on gw1 it was bluish, so i dont understand why to change totally his aspect .

Edited October 31, 2021 by radda.8920

[Fueki.4753]

23 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 the jade sea with ugly fluorescent green (when we see the jade color of the golem of the new engineer specialization),

 

And please stop putting this green everywhere, it is one of the most unpleasant colors to look at apart from the vegetation .. for example the jade on gw1 it was bluish, so i dont understand why to change totally his aspect .

The Golem looks similar refined Jade you can find in jewellery. This is fine, because the golem's jade is refined.

But if the raw Jade Sea looks like that, we have a problem indeed. In my opinion, the Jade Sea should look similar to the Solid Ocean Fractal, which looks rather similar to raw jade.

[radda.8920]

Just now, Fueki.4753 said:

The Golem looks similar refined Jade you can find in jewellery. This is fine, because the golem's jade is refined.

But if the raw Jade Sea looks like that, we have a problem indeed. In my opinion, the Jade Sea should look similar to the Solid Ocean Fractal, which looks rather similar to raw jade.

 

Even the jade of the fractal, it looks nothing like the one of gw1, way too green.

it's so much nicer to see a bluish petrified sea like on gw1, much more pleasing to the eye. But I'm not naive, it will not be the case.

So  i  hope that the green is as less fluorescent as possible.

[Fueki.4753]

4 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

Even the jade of the fractal, it looks nothing like the one of gw1, way too green.

it's so much nicer to see a bluish petrified sea like on gw1, much more pleasing to the eye. But I'm not naive, it will not be the case.

So  i  hope that the green is as less fluorescent as possible.

Jade usually is green though. If you just search "raw jade" on google, you'll have a hard time finding images that do not contain green. Even the bluest stones I found were mostly green'ish on colour.

Even if I google for GW1 Jade Sea, most images I see are green. And the other ones are Turquoise, which kind of still is a shade of green.

[radda.8920]

2 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Jade usually is green though. If you just search "raw jade" on google, you'll have a hard time finding images that do not contain green. Even the bluest stones I found were mostly green'ish on colour.

Even if I google for GW1 Jade Sea, most images I see are green. And the other ones are Turquoise, which kind of still is a shade of green.

 

I don't find it green at all, or really very discreetly. I almost only see blue in this video.

Afterwards, not all eyes see colors the same way. But in any case, we are very far from the green of guild wars 2

 

[Fueki.4753]

16 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

I don't find it green at all, or really very discreetly. I almost only see blue in this video.

Afterwards, not all eyes see colors the same way. But in any case, we are very far from the green of guild wars 2

And I don't really see all that much blue in that video. While it's not as green as the Solid Ocean Fractal, most of it looks pretty much like tints of green to me.

[Dami.5046]

1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

I do not understand the point of returning to cantha if it is to totally destroy the style and the soul of this continent.

Obviously there must be changes during 250 years but if it is to go back there and not recognize the place, I do not understand ...if they did EOD on cantha, it was to bring back lots of fanboys . So if cantha no longer has anything in common with guild wars 1, many players will be disappointed.

If it was to do something totally different, you might as well leave cantha aside and go to a totally different place. Space is not lacking on the world map...

 

Shing jea already has nothing to do with the original, it's even uglier than before. So if it's to bring back some futuristic kaineng and the jade sea with ugly fluorescent green (when we see the jade color of the golem of the new engineer specialization), it's going to be hopeless.

Kaineng on guild wars1 had something unique, a real originality, if it is to make something generic and bland already seen in many video games, it's sad.

And please stop putting this green everywhere, it is one of the most unpleasant colors to look at apart from the vegetation .. for example the jade on gw1 it was bluish, so i dont understand why to change totally his aspect .

I'm already not holding much hope on how cantha now looks. As far as i'm concerned, how's it been described, I could see the Jade sea maps being a copy/paste of the PoF maps (but water/ jade obviously) and Echovald, my favourite area in Cantha being a copy/paste of HoT maps. As far as the city, that's going to be totally different, the sewers housing the 'tech' and unreachable, and any 'old' buildings crumbled into the sea. I'm not so worried it might look more modern there, but I hope they haven't totally sucked the life out of the other areas just to be relevant and edgy. 

 

[radda.8920]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And I don't really see all that much blue in that video. While it's not as green as the Solid Ocean Fractal, most of it looks pretty much like tints of green to me.

Our eyes must surely see the shades of colors differently. But in any case, even if you find it closer to green, it is much more pleasant to watch than the fluorescent green of the golem or the one of the fractal

 

55 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said:

I'm already not holding much hope on how cantha now looks. As far as i'm concerned, how's it been described, I could see the Jade sea maps being a copy/paste of the PoF maps (but water/ jade obviously) and Echovald, my favourite area in Cantha being a copy/paste of HoT maps. As far as the city, that's going to be totally different, the sewers housing the 'tech' and unreachable, and any 'old' buildings crumbled into the sea. I'm not so worried it might look more modern there, but I hope they haven't totally sucked the life out of the other areas just to be relevant and edgy. 

 

 

Yes I agree with you on everything you say except the echovald forest. I find the few images we had a little more reassuring than the rest, it looks quite close to guild wars 1 with more vegetation.

For example, the fort Aspenwood is exactly the same style as in gw1:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/43/7/1635711461-echovald.jpg

we will know more in 2 weeks

Edited October 31, 2021 by radda.8920