Revitalizing Spellbreaker

[Opopanax.1803]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:23 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

I know this isn't really the focus of the post, but I think something needs to be done to make SB better for general open world PvE.

As it stands, the vast majority of mobs in open world don't even use buffs, making a lot of SB's functionality irrelevant (a bit like stability basically providing invulnerability against hammer).

None of the utilities of SB do anything for PVE.  Awful... and that elite...

[Morokey.8534]

I would rework and rename megabane tether.. something like: full counter no longer absorb following attack(s) but no longer needs to be hited to be activated and full counter damage increase. And megabane tether trait now just add to revenge counter. So FC would be good dmg skill with burst reset and revenge counter would be really revenge.. copy conditions reveal resist and might gen.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Morokey.8534

[Mungrul.9358]

7 hours ago, Opopanax.1803 said:

and that elite...

 

Yeah, no utility in PvE whatsoever, except for a 1.5 second missile block every 90 seconds. BIG whoop.

[oscuro.9720]

11 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

 

Yeah, no utility in PvE whatsoever, except for a 1.5 second missile block every 90 seconds. BIG whoop.

I mean PvE is one game mode. In WvW winds is a key skill that gives spellbreaker the majority of its utility in large group fights. 

[Opopanax.1803]

56 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I mean PvE is one game mode. In WvW winds is a key skill that gives spellbreaker the majority of its utility in large group fights. 

Which is great for wvw... just not pve.  If you want to use SB in pve... you should really be using old utilities and elites.

[nopoet.2960]

So about the utilities:

Starting the from the elite.  Winds of Disenchantment shouldn't prevent the application of boons but should immediately strip them so it could trigger Attacker's Insight and potentially Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse.  Maybe it could reflect projectiles for a short time, like 2 sec, after it ends too.

 

Sight beyond Sight has the right formula (effect plus after affect on trigger) on it's own it seems weak.  I like the idea of blind immunity in the op.

 

Feather foot Grace - would add swiftness on next dodge

Imminent Threat - would add burst cool down reduction on next burst

Break Enchantments - would add the next boon you receive is destroyed damaging nearby foes

[Broxxgar.6801]

I don't know but after feel WvW's now, seems that Winds of Disenchantment can be cast walking now, as I remember I couldn't walk or I would stop the cast. This seem a good improvement. I didn't read any patch notes from now.


Spellbreaker still lack some of synergy between their medidations.

[Mungrul.9358]

By the way, sorry for the noobish question, but Loss Aversion's description says "Cannot Critical Hit".

Now does that mean that damage dealt by stripping boons can't crit, or that as long as you have this trait slotted, you can't crit full-stop?

I've never been clear on that, and if it's the second, that really cripples the trait. Power DPS without crits is just laughable.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mungrul.9358

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

By the way, sorry for the noobish question, but Loss Aversion's description says "Cannot Critical Hit".

Now does that mean that damage dealt by stripping boons can't crit, or that as long as you have this trait slotted, you can't crit full-stop?

I've never been clear on that, and if it's the second, that really cripples the trait. Power DPS without crits is just laughable.

The trait's damage will not crit.

[Mungrul.9358]

Thanks for the clarification. Yet another example of ANet's poor ability to relay important information.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Thanks for the clarification. Yet another example of ANet's poor ability to relay important information.

Individual traits or skills that are not allowed to critical hit say so in their own descriptions. The same is true for any skill or trait that has an automatic crit chance increase or critical damage increase.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

On 11/11/2021 at 6:20 PM, Opopanax.1803 said:

and that elite...

I don't see why ANet couldn't just make WoD more like the GW1 version doing damage ticks over time. It got so overnerfed due to how good it was in WvW and they never went back to reexamine it.

Couldn't we just copy/paste Drakrazor's Daring into this so that it:

1. Strips boons (Dispelling Force, Enchantment Collapse)
2. Stacks up Attacker's Insight quickly for self buffs; could increase the stacks too (Attacker's Insight on CC)

And then just change the "stability" thing instead so that WoD causes Increased damage to foes per boon (like 1-2% per unique boon in PvP/WvW, 3-5% in PvE) for each WoD damage tick. Or alternatively, WoD does more damage for each stack of Attacker's Insight, so that if you keep the bubble on an enemy and get all 5 stacks in PvP/WvW (5s duration) is does 1 tick of its highest damage and in PvE (10s duration) it does 5 ticks of highest damage.

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

 It got so overnerfed due to how good it was in WvW and they never went back to reexamine it.

This describes like 1/3 of warriors traits and utilities.

[Hotride.2187]

Just dueled some boonbeast in wvw, there is no "revitalizing spellbreaker", I don't think.

Strip everything on the SB, in 5 seconds all the boons are up again. The SB also had almost 50% uptime of stability (of the time I could actually attack), probably 2/3 of my evades (which is impressive) and of course half the stealth of a thief due to the smogscale.

Breaching Strike into CC to boon steal with sigil of absorption? Please, it doesn't even hit half the time cause the SB has swiftness and the game can't track targets for kitten. If it does connect, there are so many boons on the target it doesn't get to strip stability (cause for some reason, why would it prioritize the one boon that shuts down SPB completely).

And I don't even have to go into the topic of damage and sustain; I was constantly at 50% HP, the SB was constantly at 80% if not full due to the barriers. I'm guessing they were using celestial and they still did more damage than me (almost full berserker).

Thankfully this doesn't really happen in spvp (not that war is amazing there, but at least its not this weak). But I'm still disgusted by the game when I play something like this. The one thing that I'm supposed to shut down with SPB, just fully ignores the spec and does its thing regardless. Laughable to say this game has design, at this point.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Hotride.2187

[Geoff Fey.1035]

All bursts should let you gain Attackers insight, not just. "on cc/boonrip".

Having Taunt on Full Counter (traited or baseline) would be great at forcing a proc and still offer counterplay in WvW/PvP by Aegis/Stability/Resolution.

Would Magebane Tether affecting up to 3 enemies or occur on any burst (still has ICD) be unreasonable?

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Just dueled some boonbeast in wvw, there is no "revitalizing spellbreaker", I don't think.

Strip everything on the SB, in 5 seconds all the boons are up again. The SB also had almost 50% uptime of stability (of the time I could actually attack), probably 2/3 of my evades (which is impressive) and of course half the stealth of a thief due to the smogscale.

Breaching Strike into CC to boon steal with sigil of absorption? Please, it doesn't even hit half the time cause the SB has swiftness and the game can't track targets for kitten. If it does connect, there are so many boons on the target it doesn't get to strip stability (cause for some reason, why would it prioritize the one boon that shuts down SPB completely).

And I don't even have to go into the topic of damage and sustain; I was constantly at 50% HP, the SB was constantly at 80% if not full due to the barriers. I'm guessing they were using celestial and they still did more damage than me (almost full berserker).

Thankfully this doesn't really happen in spvp (not that war is amazing there, but at least its not this weak). But I'm still disgusted by the game when I play something like this. The one thing that I'm supposed to shut down with SPB, just fully ignores the spec and does its thing regardless. Laughable to say this game has design, at this point.

Spell should have a minor trait that applies Disenchantment when stripping a boon (disenchantment is an existing rebuff reserved to winds of disenchantment that prevents boon reapplication) so that you can actually be impactful in keeping targets boonless. The damage is already mediocre, increased utility would be nice. 
Another thing that would be nice is if spell had a way to nuke barrier, since it seems to thematically fit. Something like building it into a revenge counter rework by going like;

Revenge counter now transfers conditions instead of copying. Revenge counter deals 1350 damage (damage mod of .001, just enough damage to kill Mesmer clones on crit if you have 200% crit damage), deals 50% bonus damage to targets with barrier. This makes it not hit excessively hard (about 3k on crits isn’t excessive), punish enemies for using barrier, and has condition utility. The alternative trait is magebane tether, which is very useful as it is, making an actual trade off, instead of having only 1 useful GM trait. Just my 2cents :) 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Spell should have a minor trait that applies Disenchantment when stripping a boon (disenchantment is an existing rebuff reserved to winds of disenchantment that prevents boon reapplication) so that you can actually be impactful in keeping targets boonless. The damage is already mediocre, increased utility would be nice. 
Another thing that would be nice is if spell had a way to nuke barrier, since it seems to thematically fit. Something like building it into a revenge counter rework by going like;

Revenge counter now transfers conditions instead of copying. Revenge counter deals 1350 damage (damage mod of .001, just enough damage to kill Mesmer clones on crit if you have 200% crit damage), deals 50% bonus damage to targets with barrier. This makes it not hit excessively hard (about 3k on crits isn’t excessive), punish enemies for using barrier, and has condition utility. The alternative trait is magebane tether, which is very useful as it is, making an actual trade off, instead of having only 1 useful GM trait. Just my 2cents 🙂

You can nuke Barrier with Warrior's Cunning, at least in WvW, they overnerfed it in PvP though.

[oscuro.9720]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You can nuke Barrier with Warrior's Cunning, at least in WvW, they overnerfed it in PvP though.

Yea. I just don’t run it. I’d love it baked into spell, since spell is supposed to be a “counter” to all the extraneous elements (stealth and boons), I’d say barrier fits in that category. Again, just my opinion, by no means universally right 🙂 

Edited December 9, 2021 by oscuro.9720

[Broxxgar.6801]

I consider the Spellbreaker the weaker of all spec of warrior. Not because its weak, but because of the nerfs, its preventing the spec to work correctly. You can still do something with it because of the design, that still somehow affecting the spec.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Hotride.2187]

I wonder if Loss Aversion can be made into a stackable debuff (that can't be cleansed), each removed boon results in 1 stack for 5 seconds. The more stacks you have, the more damage you take from Loss Aversion on boon removal. So that if a SpB decides to go that route, boon spamming classes just die to their boon spam (if they dont stop spamming boons).

[Geoff Fey.1035]

18 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I wonder if Loss Aversion can be made into a stackable debuff (that can't be cleansed), each removed boon results in 1 stack for 5 seconds. The more stacks you have, the more damage you take from Loss Aversion on boon removal. So that if a SpB decides to go that route, boon spamming classes just die to their boon spam (if they dont stop spamming boons)

Rather than adding a stackable debuff, they should update Loss Aversion, Attacker's Insight, and Enchantment Collapse to proc even if a boon isn't removed (i.e.enemy does not have any boons). This would add damage to Dagger (that it sorely needs to be relevant in almost all modes) in that you can build the Burst to do a 6-target spike of damage (removes 2 boons; activates traits twice) even if they don't have boons, followed by a 2nd spike with Dagger-3.

I would recommend make it so that the final auto-attack (Keen Strike) removes 1 boon on hit instead of providing Might (get rid of the "extra might on critical hit" component). Makes a lot more sense than Spellbreakers adding Might boons to themselves with auto-attacks.... let's actually invest Attacker's Insight.

Adds value to using a Dagger to stack up Attacker's Insight via auto-attacks (~4s to get full stacks; +250 Power, +11.9% Crit Chance, +16.7% Critical Damage); this provides a tradeoff to make Dagger more valuable while also setting up those big hits with your offhand/2nd weapon set.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Geoff Fey.1035

[anbujackson.9564]

On 12/9/2021 at 3:07 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You can nuke Barrier with Warrior's Cunning, at least in WvW, they overnerfed it in PvP though.

What did CMC say when they introduced bladesworn mechanics?

No one seriously takes this trait? :'> Check the beta 2 preview at 37:15

[Broxxgar.6801]

2 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Rather than adding a stackable debuff, they should update Loss Aversion, Attacker's Insight, and Enchantment Collapse to proc even if a boon isn't removed (i.e.enemy does not have any boons). This would add damage to Dagger (that it sorely needs to be relevant in almost all modes) in that you can build the Burst to do a 6-target spike of damage (removes 2 boons; activates traits twice) even if they don't have boons, followed by a 2nd spike with Dagger-3.

I would recommend make it so that the final auto-attack (Keen Strike) removes 1 boon on hit instead of providing Might (get rid of the "extra might on critical hit" component). Makes a lot more sense than Spellbreakers adding Might boons to themselves with auto-attacks.... let's actually invest Attacker's Insight.

Adds value to using a Dagger to stack up Attacker's Insight via auto-attacks (~4s to get full stacks; +250 Power, +11.9% Crit Chance, +16.7% Critical Damage); this provides a tradeoff to make Dagger more valuable while also setting up those big hits with your offhand/2nd weapon set.

Spellbreaker is 80% Core War and 20% Counter Attack and Tether.

If you take a look on dervish you can see how the spec should work.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

What did CMC say when they introduced bladesworn mechanics?

No one seriously takes this trait? :'> Check the beta 2 preview at 37:15

Not in PvP or PvE. They overnerfed it in PvP, and it has little use in PvE. That 50% damage increase works wonders against rangers, weavers, scourges, scrappers, any engi with Blast Shield, etc. Barrier is more common than you'd think in WvW. Even then the 25% modifier will kitten up eles, guards, and thieves.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Rather than adding a stackable debuff, they should update Loss Aversion, Attacker's Insight, and Enchantment Collapse to proc even if a boon isn't removed (i.e.enemy does not have any boons).

This has always been the issue with SpB. Attacker insight is awesome on paper but extremly lacking when it come to build it.