WvW pip update confusion

[Xoleuph.7014]

The new update notes say that pip gain was raised from 3-5 to 4-6, but it also says that anyone from rank1-149 gets an extra pip.

Does that mean you actually get 5-7 pips now? Or do the two talk about the same effect, meaning it is only 4-6?

[Handsel.2891]

Yes, if you are rank 149 or lower, you get 5-7 pips, based on score placement, 4-6 from score and an extra for the low rank.

In other words, 5-7 pips per tick has just become the new baseline.

[Xoleuph.7014]

nice.

 

[BadHealer.3608]

So the reward for getting rank 150 is +1 pip, but you also got -1 pip, because you are now higher than rank 149.

[idolin.2831]

2 minutes ago, BadHealer.3608 said:

So the reward for getting rank 150 is +1 pip, but you also got -1 pip, because you are now higher than rank 149.

No... please read the whole patch notes.

Quote

• Increased the number of pips given per WvW rank by 1.

So from rank 1-149 you get 1 extra pips, 150-669 you get 2 extra pips, and so on.

[Luthan.5236]

The 3/4/5 is the placement (currently most score of the team/world) which got increased by 1 each.

Then for tanks 0-149 an extra pip. Before that you started to only get +1 from rank 150 onwards (later for higher ranks even more).

The additional +1 refers to the existing pips. at 150 you get +2 (before that it was +1).

So instead of 0-149 +0, at 150 +1
it now is 0-149 +1, at 150 +2 ... and the higher ones also one more.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Luthan.5236

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

Regardless, I'm happy with the extra pip.  As a low level player it takes so much more time invested to max out that I never have, even when I spent almost all my playing time one week in WvW. 

[Strider Pj.2193]

15 minutes ago, Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294 said:

Regardless, I'm happy with the extra pip.  As a low level player it takes so much more time invested to max out that I never have, even when I spent almost all my playing time one week in WvW. 

That’s the thing..  it’s actually two extra pips for each player full time…

[Danikat.8537]

14 minutes ago, Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294 said:

Regardless, I'm happy with the extra pip.  As a low level player it takes so much more time invested to max out that I never have, even when I spent almost all my playing time one week in WvW. 

Me too.

I'm rank 353, often miss weeks and my server is usually 2nd or 3rd in the scoring, so I was often getting 3-4 pips at a time and could never play enough to finish the whole reward track. If I did almost nothing in GW2 except play WvW I'd usually get to gold or the first mithril chest if I had a lot of free time.

Even with the loss of the outnumbered buff (which was relatively rare) I think this will make it faster and sometimes if I have enough free time I might even be able to finish it.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Me too.

I'm rank 353, often miss weeks and my server is usually 2nd or 3rd in the scoring, so I was often getting 3-4 pips at a time and could never play enough to finish the whole reward track. If I did almost nothing in GW2 except play WvW I'd usually get to gold or the first mithril chest if I had a lot of free time.

Even with the loss of the outnumbered buff (which was relatively rare) I think this will make it faster and sometimes if I have enough free time I might even be able to finish it.

Unless you had 40% outnumbered (on average it was stated WvW players had 7% outnumbered) the changes are beneficial.

You have to keep in mind players that played WvW before skirmish tracks existed for thousands of WvW ranks with nothing to show for it, often at a net loss of gold.

[Handsel.2891]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Unless you had 40% outnumbered (on average it was stated WvW players had 7% outnumbered) the changes are beneficial.

You have to keep in mind players that played WvW before skirmish tracks existed for thousands of WvW ranks with nothing to show for it, often at a net loss of gold.

Why do we have to keep in mind that and how did you lose gold playing WvW?

Also, those thousands of ranks came in very handy for the skirmish track when they introduced it, didn't they. Now even more so.

[Danikat.8537]

34 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Unless you had 40% outnumbered (on average it was stated WvW players had 7% outnumbered) the changes are beneficial.

You have to keep in mind players that played WvW before skirmish tracks existed for thousands of WvW ranks with nothing to show for it, often at a net loss of gold.

I normally play on the Desert Borderlands and can be online at odd times so I think I got the outnumbered buff slightly more often than average, but it definitely wasn't 40% of the time. I just wanted to acknowledge that I was factoring that in because it caused a lot of debat (including some people claiming it would be a net loss) when the change was first announced.

I'm not sure what you mean by that second paragraph. I'm not complaining that players with a higher WvW rank get more pips, just listing the ones I get as part of explaining why I've never been able to finish the reward track. Also I am one of the people who played it before the reward track existed. I started playing WvW in 2013, the skirmish reward track wasn't added until 2017. There weren't as many rewards available back then but the same is true of PvE and PvP, and it's a bit misleading to say WvW players got nothing to show for it, there were still unique items and skins not available anywhere else. (That's what got me to finally start playing it, I wanted the mini dolyak from the first tournament.)

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, MikeG.6389 said:

Why do we have to keep in mind that and how did you lose gold playing WvW?

Also, those thousands of ranks came in very handy for the skirmish track when they introduced it, didn't they. Now even more so.

Siege costed way more than it does now.
Repairs costed gold.
Upgrades costed gold (not just automatic with yaks).
No reward tracks or skirmish tracks , skirmish boxes, etc.
Ascended used to cost 300g+ per piece and now that is what legendary armor costs per piece.
etc.

+1 or +2 pips won't even make up the massive deficiency relative to self-professed "PVE mains" (the ones that keep arguing gift of battle is too hard). Most long-term Mithril/Diamond WVW players are going to hit diamond after Monday if they play on the weekend. Looping diamond only means you get ~5g worth of memories of battle every 4 hours or so.

The economic problems of WVW were what resulted in people buying entire guilds transfers for legendary weapons (a while ago you could only get gift of exploration fully mapping WVW). If the economic disparity wasn't that huge do you think that would have been possible?

If people were truly interested in helping new players they would ask Arenanet to drop the WvW mastery ranks required from 1226 to max every mastery. Instead what we had is dropping purely prestige rewards such as Mistforged armor from 2000 rank to 500 rank. (Used to be if someone hopped on siege with mistforged armor you were 100% certain they had masteries for that siege.) Luckily weekly skirmish ticket cap is still in place.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ArchonWing.9480]

Personally, I would reduce the points required to master Warclaw and a few other things. Some of the items are obnoxiously loaded at the end (we basically don't even let people on catas without full mastery, for example)

Also, veteran players who have unlocked everything should be able to put spare points in a track that increases MF or gain a bonus drop from skirmish chest or something.

Edited November 9, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Handsel.2891]

21 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Siege costed way more than it does now.
Repairs costed gold.
Upgrades costed gold (not just automatic with yaks).
No reward tracks or skirmish tracks , skirmish boxes, etc.
Ascended used to cost 300g+ per piece and now that is what legendary armor costs per piece.
etc.

+1 or +2 pips won't even make up the massive deficiency relative to self-professed "PVE mains" (the ones that keep arguing gift of battle is too hard). Most long-term Mithril/Diamond WVW players are going to hit diamond after Monday if they play on the weekend. Looping diamond only means you get ~5g worth of memories of battle every 4 hours or so.

The economic problems of WVW were what resulted in people buying entire guilds transfers for legendary weapons (a while ago you could only get gift of exploration fully mapping WVW). If the economic disparity wasn't that huge do you think that would have been possible?

If people were truly interested in helping new players they would ask Arenanet to drop the WvW mastery ranks required from 1226 to max every mastery. Instead what we had is dropping purely prestige rewards such as Mistforged armor from 2000 rank to 500 rank. (Used to be if someone hopped on siege with mistforged armor you were 100% certain they had masteries for that siege.) Luckily weekly skirmish ticket cap is still in place.

It seems that you are not satisfied with the (lack of) compensation or recognition long time WvW players received after ANet introduced the changes they did. It's fine and maybe you should take it up with ANet.

Still, why should I be concerned about that as a less then avid WvW player, especially as it relates to today's update and this thread, even the post you originally replied to?

By the way, Mithril and Diamond rank players (now) receive +6 and +7 extra pips, respectively. You may think that's not a massive difference, but it significantly more than the (now) +2 I get. That most long-term players will hit the end of the track in two days is not my problem, either. If you average (a very generous) 12 pips a tick, it takes about 10 hours to finish the skirmish track. 90% percent of the players play no more than 2 and a half hours a day, but mostly much less, and only 1.5% play more than 5 hours a day. If you find the rewards you get for those pips inadequate, that's a different question and, again, it might be a good topic in its own thread.

[Gorem.8104]

4 hours ago, MikeG.6389 said:

It seems that you are not satisfied with the (lack of) compensation or recognition long time WvW players received after ANet introduced the changes they did. It's fine and maybe you should take it up with ANet.

Still, why should I be concerned about that as a less then avid WvW player, especially as it relates to today's update and this thread, even the post you originally replied to?

By the way, Mithril and Diamond rank players (now) receive +6 and +7 extra pips, respectively. You may think that's not a massive difference, but it significantly more than the (now) +2 I get. That most long-term players will hit the end of the track in two days is not my problem, either. If you average (a very generous) 12 pips a tick, it takes about 10 hours to finish the skirmish track. 90% percent of the players play no more than 2 and a half hours a day, but mostly much less, and only 1.5% play more than 5 hours a day. If you find the rewards you get for those pips inadequate, that's a different question and, again, it might be a good topic in its own thread.

 

? All ranks gained 2, not 6 or 7, and the max pips you can get now at max rank is 19 if you are a commander leading a decent sized squad and had completed wood the previous week. if you are losing and max rank, you get 13 pips a tick outside of leading a squad. 

[Vegeta.2563]

So people putting in unnecessary long explanations.  I'll put it as simple as possible.

Everyone gets an extra +2 pips no matter what place they are in or what rank they are.

Rank pips in more detail:

Rank 1-149  = 1 Pip

150-619 = 2 Pips

620-1394 = 3 Pips

1395-2544 = 4 Pips

2545-4094 = 5 Pips

4095-6444 = 6 Pips

6445-9999 = 7 Pips

9999-10000 = 8 pips

Server placement pips:

3rd Place = 4 Pips

2nd Place = 5 Pips

1st Place = 6 Pips

 

The very minimum a Rank 1 player will get is 5 pips.  After getting Wood tier completed.. the following week it will be a minimum of 6 pips from commitment pip.

[Xenesis.6389]

Quote

Increased the number of pips given per WvW rank by 1.

 

This statement is actually misleading and confusing and not even needed to be stated in notes.

All they did was add 1 pip to ranks 1-149, they didn't add pips PER rank, just one more OVERALL.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

This statement is actually misleading and confusing and not even needed to be stated in notes.

All they did was add 1 pip to ranks 1-149, they didn't add pips PER rank, just one more OVERALL.

 

 

Which is not true. They gave +1 pip to sub 150 rank players, which technically didn't have a named rank since Bronze starts at 150.

 

They also added +1 pip to each rank after which is mentioned in the next line.

 

Simply put: all players get +2 pips now, 1 from the +1 increase across the board for all ranks, 1 from the baseline increase for the server match-up placing.

[Xenesis.6389]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Which is not true. They gave +1 pip to sub 150 rank players, which technically didn't have a named rank since Bronze starts at 150.

 

They also added +1 pip to each rank after which is mentioned in the next line.

 

Simply put: all players get +2 pips now, 1 from the +1 increase across the board for all ranks, 1 from the baseline increase for the server match-up placing.

 

Each of the ranks gives you +1 pip only, in total you can earn 8, use to be 7.

 

There is no need for them to mention the other ranks.

They shouldn't state 

Quote

given PER wvw rank

But should have stated

Quote

given BY wvw rank

They made it sound like an increase for each rank, while it was just one increase to the pip group. Which again didn't even need to be stated, just say you're adding a new rank.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Each of the ranks gives you +1 pip only, in total you can earn 8, use to be 7.

Yes, AND the minimum pips from server ranking was increased from 3-5 to 4-6, which for all intents and purposes is the same as increasing each pip rank reward by 1.

Quote

 

There is no need for them to mention the other ranks.

They shouldn't state 

But should have stated

They made it sound like an increase for each rank, while it was just one increase to the pip group. Which again didn't even need to be stated, just say you're adding a new rank.

 

 

My guess is they wanted to differentiate between rank nameless players and players with a rank starting with Bronze, hence why they said they are ADDING a bonus to 1-149, which did not exist before.

 

Yes, the wording can be misunderstood but minimal applied reasoning and logic should make anyone understand what was meant for the following ranks. To assume that pips increase beyond 2 with additional ranks is hilarious when even 2 is a significant decrease in time needed to be spent in the game mode.

 

The main reasoning here being likely that any future adjustments to pip rewards will affect individual systems in place, hence why the changes were mentioned individually.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, the wording can be misunderstood but minimal applied reasoning and logic should make anyone understand what was meant for the following ranks. To assume that pips increase beyond 2 with additional ranks is hilarious when even 2 is a significant decrease in time needed to be spent in the game mode.

 

Now apply that logic to a newbie instead of a veteran player.

Again no reason to mention the other ranks, nothing happened to them, just a new pip was added.

 

K.I.S.S.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Now apply that logic to a newbie instead of a veteran player.

Again no reason to mention the other ranks, nothing happened to them, just a new pip was added.

 

K.I.S.S.

ah newbie wouldn't be affected now would they?

 

Experienced players would know what an unrealistic pip increase would mean.

 

K.I.S.S. might not mean what you think it does. It's also used to reason that the most obvious explanation is likely the correct one. The most obvious explanation here is that all ranks received 1 additonal pip.

 

Not that it matters, takes less than 1 minute for any player to figure out what was meant after loging in. This entire discussion is pointless and nonsensical.