Teams ranked conquest will solve 90% of issues

[Shao.7236]

SoloQ only would be better until the population heals, there's no reason to allow TeamQ when we have AT and all RankedQ rewards are targeted at exclusively singular players. Which means that no matter how you care about your team, you'll still technically compete with them anyway and that's dumb.

If we can't get SoloQ, fix class switching, that's already gonna alleviate a lot of the boring issues with the game.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Avatar.3568]

On 11/16/2021 at 4:01 AM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i remember people raging at mixed q back in the day but its hard to tell if thats what killed pvp until HoT or lack of rewards. did they change to solo/ duo and then it died? i forget.

I was enjoying it, no clue how many 5 groups we beated es 2-3-4, bad players will loose and good will win, this will always be the result 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

9 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

What i dont get is how people dont realize low population makes team que not work. Its not the fault of the matchmaker if there is only one or two plat teams queing at a time. What alternative are you suggesting? 30+ minute que times? Plat 3 teams would never get a match if the matchmaker didnt let them play vs lower ranks. It's like you're intentionally ignoring facts because you refuse to take a minute and consider the consequences of low population.

Not only is this queue time argument greatly overexaggerated due to the fact that the queues would be mixed anyway, but it is also a negligent argument, considering that entering a match that results in 500 to 50 or less that encompasses a wait time of at least 15 to 20 minutes from the point you enter the queue and finish the match, which is a complete waste of time and in no way could even remotely be considered a "a match".

 

I think it's safe to say after viewing opinions in this forum for many years now, that most people would rather wait in the queue for 15+ minutes to get an actual good match, than waste 15 minutes with a match that isn't even competitive. Why would anyone want even instant queues for the absolute worst botched lopsided rigged match making this side of the milky way?

 

A person would need to be completely ignorant or entirely apathic by choice or maybe secretly supporting the BS, to actually vouch to hold onto this useless, botched, and ultimately failed solo/duo only system.

 

8 hours ago, Lacdanon.1483 said:

I'm glad someone is looking at it from both sides, all the negative effects from 5man que would be significantly worse for anyone playing outside of NA primetime.

 

He is not looking at it from both ways. He's just hard vouching against 5man. So hard that it looks suspicious tbh. I also find it strange that so many people are trophying and liking his posts, as well as this one you posted, but for some reason the well written and highly detailed almost irrefutable points made by pro 5man posters are being confuse faced.

 

You know it's sad really. All of those real players who had vouched so hard for 5man, they aren't here to give this support anymore. They left the game a long time ago but the sheer numbers of those people who were pro 5mn heavily outweighed those who are against it. Those pro 5man advocates left because Arenanet never cared to fix this game mode.

 

At some point you need to put 2 & 2 together and understand the reality here. Fighting against the return of 5man premade is like an alcoholic who's sick as hell who wants a better life, who is willing to do anything to achieve that, EXCEPT stop drinking.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

SoloQ only would be better until the population heals, there's no reason to allow TeamQ when we have AT and all RankedQ rewards are targeted at exclusively singular players. Which means that no matter how you care about your team, you'll still technically compete with them anyway and that's dumb.

If we can't get SoloQ, fix class switching, that's already gonna alleviate a lot of the boring issues with the game.

The population cannot and will not heal without the disablement of such strong and widely accepted & used match manipulation.

The match manipulation occurs because of queues that leave slots open on teams for synch queues.

solo, duo, triple, quadruple queues, even with 1 slot open on a team, people can still synch queue and throw and they will.

5man queues are the only way to stop the match manipulation, Anet will never gut it out with bans alone.

When the match manipulation stops, when people know they can play the game without being cheated again, people will come back to this game, and new players will stay longer. The population will begin to heal very very organically in time.

It's just the only thing that can be done. Even if they introduced new kick kitten content, new classes, new races, new maps, ect ect ect, none of it would matter when people log in and after a week of playing, realize that most of the matches they are in aren't even real outcomes, neither their wins or their losses.

Some of you guys have been vouching against 5man for sooo long but open up your eyes boys. Our population is shrinking at a higher rate than ever before. It is SMALL now. Why do you think that is? Can someone even give me a plausible answer to this that doesn't ignore the ridiculous large elephant in the room of how bad the cheating is in GW2 ranked pvp? Let's not act like the rampant cheating isn't a problem that would push players away from the game. It is seriously cringe when players try to act like the unbelievable amount of sheer match manipulation happening is somehow not tied to the mass exodus of players leaving GW2 pvp.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Genesis.5169]

People don't realize we have low population because of no 5v5s removing 5v5 out of the game did not make more people play i don't know how removing a mode of play would draw more players as its actually moving something out the game but alot of people have some how convinced themselves of that.

Makes me think that thiere is some kinda nefarious goal here to keep queue small and pvp dead because I for the life of me cannot understand why the majority of you forum posters think like this where in no other game people do this. I suggest anyone with critical thought and Anet should ignore these people going forward they clearly do not play the same game as everyone else because if they did they would see the same 20-30 people every day.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Shaogin.2679]

10 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

What i dont get is how people dont realize low population makes team que not work. Its not the fault of the matchmaker if there is only one or two plat teams queing at a time. What alternative are you suggesting? 30+ minute que times? Plat 3 teams would never get a match if the matchmaker didnt let them play vs lower ranks. It's like you're intentionally ignoring facts because you refuse to take a minute and consider the consequences of low population.

I love how you thought this was going to be a witty post for you because you didn't actually read the thread and therefore don't realize that I already addressed the population issue as well. Lmao.

 

Allow me to catch you up. Match making issues are not team queue issues. Population issues are not team queue issues. Currently we have issues with both match making and population, but team queue has been absent forever now, meaning we can concur as an undisputable fact that team queue was not the cause. 

 

Now, your argument against team queue is that we don't have the population to support it. You say there just aren't enough plat players in the game to allow them to team up because then they would have no one to play against, so eventually the match maker would pit them against considerably weaker teams.

 

For this reason, you support solo queue, a game mode that forces you to team up with random players, often creates wildly unbalanced match-ups, and is the sole reason PvP is currently plagued with bots, trolls, and afk players. So essentially, due to low PvP population (ignoring the reasons why it is so low in the first place) the proposed solution by the solo queue community is to just give up and let it go to kitten.

 

As I previously stated however, if the population is too low to support a 5v5 game mode, then 5v5 should not be the game mode of choice for ranked. If you're just looking to jump in a quick random match, that is what unranked is for. If the only way to fill a 5v5 queue is to throw people of random skill levels together and fill the rest of the slots with bots and trolls, then you're doing something wrong. 

 

I'll reiterate once more, match maker issues and population issues are separate issues from team queue. These issues are already present and have been getting worse and yet team queue has been absent this whole time. 

 

Seriously, give me a reason why team queue should not exist without trying to use match making and population as a crutch.

 

9 hours ago, Lacdanon.1483 said:

I'm glad someone is looking at it from both sides, all the negative effects from 5man que would be significantly worse for anyone playing outside of NA primetime.

 

Maybe read the whole thread?

[Shaogin.2679]

7 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

SoloQ only would be better until the population heals, there's no reason to allow TeamQ when we have AT and all RankedQ rewards are targeted at exclusively singular players. Which means that no matter how you care about your team, you'll still technically compete with them anyway and that's dumb.

If we can't get SoloQ, fix class switching, that's already gonna alleviate a lot of the boring issues with the game.

Spoiler alert, we've been stuck with solo queue forever now and the population has been getting worse, not better. Also, again with this AT nonsense. Do you play AT games? Is it still every 6 hours? Last I checked it was. Would you be ok only getting to play once every 6 hours? I'm going to assume not. Also, my fractal rewards are also targeted and exclusively single players, should we force them to solo queue too? You know what would be funny, go to their forums and tell them their team queue is garbage and they would be much better off with a solo queue. Come to think of it, does GW2 even have rewards that aren't exclusively targeted at single players?

 

Also, your class switching solution. Let me get this straight, you want to take solo queue, and make it even worse by removing the teams ability to make a usable team composition? Geez, we get it already, you want PvP to die off.

[Khalisto.5780]

being plat player  having to dodge team usa to not get farmed? yes

 

with all the dodging in plat, gold 1 teams facing plat teams? yes

 

i think this should be an experience for new players, once you reach plat you solo q only, also premades only fight premades

[Khalisto.5780]

I still don't get why they don't try this on mini season to see what is it like and gather feedback

 

I'

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The population cannot and will not heal without the disablement of such strong and widely accepted & used match manipulation.

The match manipulation occurs because of queues that leave slots open on teams for synch queues.

solo, duo, triple, quadruple queues, even with 1 slot open on a team, people can still synch queue and throw and they will.

5man queues are the only way to stop the match manipulation, Anet will never gut it out with bans alone.

When the match manipulation stops, when people know they can play the game without being cheated again, people will come back to this game, and new players will stay longer. The population will begin to heal very very organically in time.

It's just the only thing that can be done. Even if they introduced new kick kitten content, new classes, new races, new maps, ect ect ect, none of it would matter when people log in and after a week of playing, realize that most of the matches they are in aren't even real outcomes, neither their wins or their losses.

Some of you guys have been vouching against 5man for sooo long but open up your eyes boys. Our population is shrinking at a higher rate than ever before. It is SMALL now. Why do you think that is? Can someone even give me a plausible answer to this that doesn't ignore the ridiculous large elephant in the room of how bad the cheating is in GW2 ranked pvp? Let's not act like the rampant cheating isn't a problem that would push players away from the game. It is seriously cringe when players try to act like the unbelievable amount of sheer match manipulation happening is somehow not tied to the mass exodus of players leaving GW2 pvp.

Population is small because the game is not interesting enough, not like players have to ever make any commitments that could make it interesting. Commitment such as their professions to be pushed to the limit via roles through situations that are given at the start of the game because right now we can do rock paper scissors endlessly with the meta pleb build, unlike any other normal competitive design out there.

 

And before you say 5v5 is a "normal" missing design, if players wanted 5v5 so bad, AT's would be more popular period.

 

We don't need nor have enough players for 5v5, let alone have those that already queue sync to have the ability to do it even more easily by themselves exclusively by pairing each of their carefully made team against each other which they can easily identify at the ready up during quiet times as their ranks can make the task further simple.

 

Selling God of PvP will never be any difficult by then.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

15 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Population is small because the game is not interesting enough, not like players have to ever make any commitments that could make it interesting. Commitment such as their professions to be pushed to the limit via roles through situations that are given at the start of the game because right now we can do rock paper scissors endlessly with the meta pleb build, unlike any other normal competitive design out there.

 

And before you say 5v5 is a "normal" missing design, if players wanted 5v5 so bad, AT's would be more popular period.

 

We don't need nor have enough players for 5v5, let alone have those that already queue sync to have the ability to do it even more easily by themselves exclusively by pairing each of their carefully made team against each other which they can easily identify at the ready up during quiet times as their ranks can make the task further simple.

 

Selling God of PvP will never be any difficult by then.

Allowing 5man teams would enable commitment. The interesting commitment of practicing and getting good with your team.

The population is low exactly because of what you yourself just said. They removed any interesting commitments we could have had, when they disabled team league queue, making guild team formations irrelevant and useless.

And as much as everyone seems to be dodging this clear obvious fact that is reinforced in the subsamples of every game ever, people LEAVE GAMES when the cheating gets massively out of control. <- This disease has been the unfortunate downfall of so many games. Clearly with any reason & rational logic at all, one could figure that if the cheating had been culled in any of these games, people would have stayed to play them.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Shao.7236]

26 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Allowing 5man teams would enable commitment. The interesting commitment of practicing and getting good with your team.

The population is low exactly because of what you yourself just said. They removed any interesting commitments we could have had, when they disabled team league queue, making guild team formations irrelevant and useless.

And as much as everyone seems to be dodging this clear obvious fact that is reinforced in the subsamples of every game ever, people LEAVE GAMES when the cheating gets massively out of control. <- This disease has been the unfortunate downfall of so many games. Clearly with any reason & rational logic at all, one could figure that if the cheating was culled in any of these, people would stayed to play them.

 

Real commitments come from the very start of the game by having to make gameplay decisions of the one profession you'd have choosen to play with, not having all the better players stacked to win in the same old boring ways of looking at the team comp of the enemy and freely counter it from the start by class switching.

 

Forcing players to innovate their profession is already a better attempt at alleviating the meta complains that have plagued this game way before population had declined this badly because that's what the game has always promoted as a strength for it's playable professions, it is what players do and wish for, coming around with their own content to play with.

 

You can't easily create meta stacked teams if you prevent that and you surely wouldn't be able to have 5 stack of the same profession unless everyone in the pool exclusively queue as the same because the algoritm is already programmed to avoid that.

 

By adding such volatile element you're introducing way more fun and identity to all the players rather than being a carbon copy of each other and with those playstyles in place there's much more replayability in place for casuals to not get bored so easily.

 

I can guaranteed you that you'd have more players in PvP if that all were the case. Based on how many (at least about 30 players minimum) I've tried to introduce PvP to, their complain wasn't the lack of having a bad teammate or a full team, next to lacking newer gamemodes or maps but rather facing the same boring shenanigans and downright impossible ability to just play the way they wished without getting constantly faced with the same established meta compositions because that's what class switching allows and RankedQ is far more casual than AT's alone.

 

Blocking class switching prevents the perfect team comps but does not prevent a good one because all professions have some flexibility to a degree and that flexibility is the volalite element that makes the game interesting to casuals and pros alike.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

 

Real commitments come from the very start of the game by having to make gameplay decisions of the one profession you'd have choosen to play with, not having all the better players stacked to win in the same old boring ways of looking at the team comp of the enemy and freely counter it from the start by class switching.

 

Forcing players to innovate their profession is already a better attempt at alleviating the meta complains that have plagued this game way before population had declined this badly because that's what the game has always promoted as a strength for it's playable professions, it is what players do and wish for, coming around with their own content to play with.

 

You can't easily create meta stacked teams if you prevent that and you surely wouldn't be able to have 5 stack of the same profession unless everyone in the pool exclusively queue as the same because the algoritm is already programmed to avoid that.

 

By adding such volatile element you're introducing way more fun and identity to all the players rather than being a carbon copy of each other and with those playstyles in place there's much more replayability in place for casuals to not get bored so easily.

 

I can guaranteed you that you'd have more players in PvP if it that all were the case. Based on how many (at least about 30 players minimum) I'vr tried to introduce PvP to, their complain wasn't the lack of having a bad teammate or a full team but rather facing the same boring shenanigans and downright impossible ability to just play the way they wished without getting constantly faced with the same established meta compositions because that's what class switching allows and RankedQ is far more casual than AT's alone.

 

Blocking class switching prevents the perfect team comps but does not prevent a good one because all professions have some flexibility to a degree and that flexibility is the volalite element that makes the game interesting to casuals and pros alike.

I agree with you.

But even if all of your points were implemented, we would still have mass match manipulation.

And that was the ultimate point of this thread, that 5man premade is really the only way to get rid of that.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Crab Fear.1624]

13 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

What i dont get is how people dont realize low population makes team que not work. Its not the fault of the matchmaker if there is only one or two plat teams queing at a time. What alternative are you suggesting? 30+ minute que times? Plat 3 teams would never get a match if the matchmaker didnt let them play vs lower ranks. It's like you're intentionally ignoring facts because you refuse to take a minute and consider the consequences of low population.

No, going with what Trev said....the queue will be mixed from 1 up to 5 on a team.

So, in addition to fighting alongside bots, throwers, match manipulators, and against top 10 duos, you would be subjected to fighting in your self imposed yolo-queue against full teams.

But it's fair, because you would be given the same opportunity to do so yourself.

Many players want to remove the unknown element from their competition.

And no one has given a really valid reason why the queue couldnt just be 1-5....all things considered

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Not only is this queue time argument greatly overexaggerated due to the fact that the queues would be mixed anyway, but it is also a negligent argument, considering that entering a match that results in 500 to 50 or less that encompasses a wait time of at least 15 to 20 minutes from the point you enter the queue and finish the match, which is a complete waste of time and in no way could even remotely be considered a "a match".

 

I think it's safe to say after viewing opinions in this forum for many years now, that most people would rather wait in the queue for 15+ minutes to get an actual good match, than waste 15 minutes with a match that isn't even competitive. Why would anyone want even instant queues for the absolute worst botched lopsided rigged match making this side of the milky way?

 

A person would need to be completely ignorant or entirely apathic by choice or maybe secretly supporting the BS, to actually vouch to hold onto this useless, botched, and ultimately failed solo/duo only system.

 

He is not looking at it from both ways. He's just hard vouching against 5man. So hard that it looks suspicious tbh. I also find it strange that so many people are trophying and liking his posts, as well as this one you posted, but for some reason the well written and highly detailed almost irrefutable points made by pro 5man posters are being confuse faced.

 

You know it's sad really. All of those real players who had vouched so hard for 5man, they aren't here to give this support anymore. They left the game a long time ago but the sheer numbers of those people who were pro 5mn heavily outweighed those who are against it. Those pro 5man advocates left because Arenanet never cared to fix this game mode.

 

At some point you need to put 2 & 2 together and understand the reality here. Fighting against the return of 5man premade is like an alcoholic who's sick as hell who wants a better life, who is willing to do anything to achieve that, EXCEPT stop drinking.

I would love it if 5 man ques were feasible. With enough players you could even have a solo league and team league so everyone would be happy. As of right now there is no way 5 man ques would improve anything other than making sure there werent bots or trolls on your team. Even during NA prime time you would just have one plat 3 pug farming everyone else. If you dont see the issue in this then im not sure what else to say. If people had to play vs the stacked team over and over they would just stop playing.

Also i think your analogy is backwards. The competitive scene has been dead for years, fighting for team que is just refusing to admit that.

 

 

[Lucentfir.7430]

Hot take. Team queue/mixed queue won't fix population issues, the entirety as to why Spvp/ranked conquest is even still functioning rn isn't because it's good, it has rewards. Drop or nerf the rewards and the game mode itself would be desolate. The ball has been dropped with Spvp so many times it's just not one or two things you can point to to say why the game mode is where it's at, and would be fixed by doing X. It's just everything.  There's just too much lasting damage from the top end shenanigans all these years that no one takes the game mode seriously as a competitive mode, and that's how it's going to be until there's a hard reset on the game mode. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

I love how you thought this was going to be a witty post for you because you didn't actually read the thread and therefore don't realize that I already addressed the population issue as well. Lmao.

 

Allow me to catch you up. Match making issues are not team queue issues. Population issues are not team queue issues. Currently we have issues with both match making and population, but team queue has been absent forever now, meaning we can concur as an undisputable fact that team queue was not the cause. 

 

Now, your argument against team queue is that we don't have the population to support it. You say there just aren't enough plat players in the game to allow them to team up because then they would have no one to play against, so eventually the match maker would pit them against considerably weaker teams.

 

For this reason, you support solo queue, a game mode that forces you to team up with random players, often creates wildly unbalanced match-ups, and is the sole reason PvP is currently plagued with bots, trolls, and afk players. So essentially, due to low PvP population (ignoring the reasons why it is so low in the first place) the proposed solution by the solo queue community is to just give up and let it go to kitten.

 

As I previously stated however, if the population is too low to support a 5v5 game mode, then 5v5 should not be the game mode of choice for ranked. If you're just looking to jump in a quick random match, that is what unranked is for. If the only way to fill a 5v5 queue is to throw people of random skill levels together and fill the rest of the slots with bots and trolls, then you're doing something wrong. 

 

I'll reiterate once more, match maker issues and population issues are separate issues from team queue. These issues are already present and have been getting worse and yet team queue has been absent this whole time. 

 

Seriously, give me a reason why team queue should not exist without trying to use match making and population as a crutch.

 

Maybe read the whole thread?

Anet has already given up on the gamemode. The majority of players have already left because of that. The reason why 5 man que doesnt work with low population is basic math. The reason why solo que can balance out ratings in a small sample size better is basic math. If you dont see how population effects matchmaking then I have nothing else to say to you.

[Shao.7236]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I agree with you.

But even if all of your points were implemented, we would still have mass match manipulation.

And that was the ultimate point of this thread, that 5man premade is really the only way to get rid of that.

5 man premade will only work after the population heals, I can't see players coming back in anytime soon even if that happens because the game will still be the same boring mess will only adding further possibility for those that already match manipulate to do it even more precisely against themselves.

 

Work on making the game interesting again for the common soul then we can have greater endeavors coming forth.

 

One of my newest friend has actually took interest in PvP that they hadn't touched in years because I showed him the depth of several builds I came up with over the years that are all viable in their own right, for it to be so interesting to them only shows that if theres a will, theres a reason and I don't think that's just an individual case, he may have came into it with an open mind but it wasn't with the idea of having only 5 premade, not that it even was something to think about.

 

For anyone that starts playing PvP, they won't be coming in thinking to be competitive and making full teams even thought the possibility is there with unranked, they'll come in wanting to play the game in an interesting way for themselves and nothing will ever be better than making gameplay fun via commitment that could introduce newer builds for most professions.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

As of right now there is no way 5 man ques would improve anything other than making sure there werent bots or trolls on your team.

Which is the first priority because as it stands the matches now are not REAL anymore. This means that there technically isn't a ranked mode right now. It actually isn't there. The only people who think there is a ranked mode right now, are under a placebo effect where they believe the game is still happening and that somehow there are matches worth playing. But there aren't matches worth playing in ranked now. It is completely ruined due to cheating. It wouldn't matter if we suddenly had 5,000 people queueing at any given time of day, those 5,000 people would quickly learn how to match manipulate and we would still be in the same boat. The only way to create matches that are worth playing again, the only way to re-create ranked mode so that it is there again, is to put the removal of such cheating as not only the #1 priority, but the only priority, or there simply can't be a ranked mode that is worth playing.

 

3 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Even during NA prime time you would just have one plat 3 pug farming everyone else

Do you think that anything is different now?

Did you think that this team of p3 players farming people in a premade would be different players than the ones farming people with synch queue win trades now? It's the same thing. What do you guys not see about this? There would be 3 differences with 5man premade:

1. Those p3+ players would ball up in their team and be easier to queue dodge than they are now, than when they are all separated into 3 or 4 different micro duo only groups with alts following them all around.
2. You would be able to SEE the teams you are against when you are in a 5man premade instead of them being invisible and skewed across both teams in the game you are playing. You would lose to a 5man team LEGITIMATELY instead of losing to it when they had throws planted on your team, creating a situation that as just as impossible to win or worse, than if you had to fight Team USA in a legitimate match. Wake up man.
3. When you can put 5 players on a team that you KNOW are people who are trying and not throwing, you can block yourself from any & all alt throwing. Screw the people who refuse to LFG a group who advocate to keep solo/duo only. Because the truth is that they are ok with bad match quality and being win traded all of the time now, so why should they care if the same thing happened in a 5 man setting? With a 5man queue, at least the players who are willing to form a team, would be getting much better match quality and having more fun. The experience of the solo/duo'ers would likely not change from what it is now. They will still be landing in matches where they win or lose due to a win trade. But at least 5man queues would grant 5man premades REAL MATCHES AGAIN which is what people want and it is the only priority if anyone in that dev team is concerned with making sure this game has a real pvp scene, and not just the placebo effect of one. There is no other way to do this aside from doing 5man queues, whether it is in a ranked format or a swiss AT format, it has to be 5man queues. The match manipulation synch queueing is simply too exploitable in GW2.

If players were allowed to or even force to have to be in a 5man team before they push enter queue "just like in an AT", I would be willing to bet you money that you would be truly surprised at how many people would suddenly begin to use the LFG to form 5man teams. Guarantee you the list of teams in play at any time of day would probably be 20 to 40 strong in NA and that's just count the 5man premades, then add in players who are insisting to solo/duo/trio/quad on top of that. It would be better match making than you all are giving it credit for. Again, you could just easily queue dodge that big fat p3+ team you are so worried about. Just don't queue until they are already in a game or not online. Very easy to do.

 

I'm going to run a test tonight for the sake of this thread. I'm going to stream the formation of some 5man teams in GW pvp from an alt so people don't know who I am. I'll post it in here soon enough.

 

3 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Hot take. Team queue/mixed queue won't fix population issues, the entirety as to why Spvp/ranked conquest is even still functioning rn isn't because it's good, it has rewards. Drop or nerf the rewards and the game mode itself would be desolate. The ball has been dropped with Spvp so many times it's just not one or two things you can point to to say why the game mode is where it's at, and would be fixed by doing X. It's just everything.  There's just too much lasting damage from the top end shenanigans all these years that no one takes the game mode seriously as a competitive mode, and that's how it's going to be until there's a hard reset on the game mode. 

You are right on this, and the bolded shows acknowledgement as to just how many players have left and didn't come back because of those shenanigans.

You're also right about the hard reset thing. My opinion is that the hard reset would be bringing back 5man premade team league play.

When they removed 5man team leagues and brought solo/duo, I literally had 3/4ths of my entire pvp guild suddenly vanish and never come back. That actually happened in about less than a week's time. There was that large of a mass exodus when people realized they could no longer play together with their crews of friends.

I feel like the people advocating against 5man premades are people who never really were a part of team pvp formation to begin with, so they have an unrealistic view of how this all unfolded. They were under a social rock solo queueing this entire time, so they didn't see what happened to the community when 5man queue was removed.

 

3 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The reason why 5 man que doesnt work with low population is basic math.

This is profoundly inaccurate and couldn't be further from the truth. What we are discussing here has much much more to do with psychology than it does math. Maybe this is the problem, maybe too many people making these decisions are viewing things from some kind of theoretical mathematical standpoint, rather than from a system of human behavior.

 

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

5 man premade will only work after the population heals, I can't see players coming back in anytime soon even if that happens because the game will still be the same boring mess will only adding further possibility for those that already match manipulate to do it even more precisely against themselves.

There is likely one more chance Shao. The release of EoD is the time do this. It's now or never tbh.

The population cannot and will not heal without first removing the high tiered match manipulation in GW2.

The only way to do this, is by granting 5man queues. This is just where we are.

If nothing is done, things will continue to deteriorate at the rate we've seen or it will even become worse.

Launching an attempt to reinstate 5man play cannot possibly make anything worse than it is now.

But sitting and doing nothing at all, will definitely make things worse than it is now.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

29 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Which is the first priority because as it stands the matches now are not REAL anymore. This means that there technically isn't a ranked mode right now. It actually isn't there. The only people who think there is a ranked mode right now, are under a placebo effect where they believe the game is still happening and that somehow there are matches worth playing. But there aren't matches worth playing in ranked now. It is completely ruined due to cheating. It wouldn't matter if we suddenly had 5,000 people queueing at any given time of day, those 5,000 people would quickly learn how to match manipulate and we would still be in the same boat. The only way to create matches that are worth playing again, the only way to re-create ranked mode so that it is there again, is to put the removal of such cheating as not only the #1 priority, but the only priority, or there simply can't be a ranked mode that is worth playing.

 

Do you think that anything is different now?

Did you think that this team of p3 players farming people in a premade would be different players than the ones farming people with synch queue win trades now? It's the same thing. What do you guys not see about this? There would be 3 differences with 5man premade:

1. Those p3+ players would ball up in their team and be easier to queue dodge than they are now, than when they are all separated into 3 or 4 different micro duo only groups with alts following them all around.
2. You would be able to SEE the teams you are against when you are in a 5man premade instead of them being invisible and skewed across both teams in the game you are playing. You would lose to a 5man team LEGITIMATELY instead of losing to it when they had throws planted on your team, creating a situation that as just as impossible to win or worse, than if you had to fight Team USA in a legitimate match. Wake up man.
3. When you can put 5 players on a team that you KNOW are people who are trying and not throwing, you can block yourself from any & all alt throwing. Screw the people who refuse to LFG a group who advocate to keep solo/duo only. Because the truth is that they are ok with bad match quality and being win traded all of the time now, so why should they care if the same thing happened in a 5 man setting? With a 5man queue, at least the players who are willing to form a team, would be getting much better match quality and having more fun. The experience of the solo/duo'ers would likely not change from what it is now. They will still be landing in matches where they win or lose due to a win trade. But at least 5man queues would grant 5man premades REAL MATCHES AGAIN which is what people want and it is the only priority if anyone in that dev team is concerned with making sure this game has a real pvp scene, and not just the placebo effect of one. There is no other way to do this aside from doing 5man queues, whether it is in a ranked format or a swiss AT format, it has to be 5man queues. The match manipulation synch queueing is simply too exploitable in GW2.

If players were allowed to or even force to have to be in a 5man team before they push enter queue "just like in an AT", I would be willing to bet you money that you would be truly surprised at how many people would suddenly begin to use the LFG to form 5man teams. Guarantee you the list of teams in play at any time of day would probably be 20 to 40 strong in NA and that's just count the 5man premades, then add in players who are insisting to solo/duo/trio/quad on top of that. It would be better match making than you all are giving it credit for. Again, you could just easily queue dodge that big fat p3+ team you are so worried about. Just don't queue until they are already in a game or not online. Very easy to do.

 

I'm going to run a test tonight for the sake of this thread. I'm going to stream the formation of some 5man teams in GW pvp from an alt so people don't know who I am. I'll post it in here soon enough.

 

You are right on this, and the bolded shows acknowledgement as to just how many players have left and didn't come back because of those shenanigans.

You're also right about the hard reset thing. My opinion is that the hard reset would be bringing back 5man premade team league play.

When they removed 5man team leagues and brought solo/duo, I literally had 3/4ths of my entire pvp guild suddenly vanish and never come back. That actually happened in about less than a week's time. There was that large of a mass exodus when people realized they could no longer play together with their crews of friends.

I feel like the people advocating against 5man premades are people who never really were a part of team pvp formation to begin with, so they have an unrealistic view of how this all unfolded. They were under a social rock solo queueing this entire time, so they didn't see what happened to the community when 5man queue was removed.

 

This is profoundly inaccurate and couldn't be further from the truth. What we are discussing here has much much more to do with psychology than it does math. Maybe this is the problem, maybe too many people making these decisions are viewing things from some kind of theoretical mathematical standpoint, rather than from a system of human behavior.

 

There is likely one more chance Shao. The release of EoD is the time do this. It's now or never tbh.

The population cannot and will not heal without first removing the high tiered match manipulation in GW2.

The only way to do this, is by granting 5man queues. This is just where we are.

If nothing is done, things will continue to deteriorate at the rate we've seen or it will even become worse.

Launching an attempt to reinstate 5man play cannot possibly make anything worse than it is now.

But sitting and doing nothing at all, will definitely make things worse than it is now.

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people actively wintrading.

[Shaogin.2679]

5 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Anet has already given up on the gamemode. The majority of players have already left because of that. The reason why 5 man que doesnt work with low population is basic math. The reason why solo que can balance out ratings in a small sample size better is basic math. If you dont see how population effects matchmaking then I have nothing else to say to you.

You literally just ignored everything I said and just repeated yourself.

[Shaogin.2679]

7 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

 

I'd ask you to read properly before forcing the dumbest statements down my throat.

Since you've resorted to just slinging insults I take it you can't actually refute my points? Lmao

[Crab Fear.1624]

6 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I would love it if 5 man ques were feasible. With enough players you could even have a solo league and team league so everyone would be happy. As of right now there is no way 5 man ques would improve anything other than making sure there werent bots or trolls on your team. Even during NA prime time you would just have one plat 3 pug farming everyone else. If you dont see the issue in this then im not sure what else to say. If people had to play vs the stacked team over and over they would just stop playing.

Also i think your analogy is backwards. The competitive scene has been dead for years, fighting for team que is just refusing to admit that.

 

 

Bro, those guys have 90-95% win rates, they will farm you even solo.

[Bazsi.2734]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Allowing 5man teams would enable commitment. The interesting commitment of practicing and getting good with your team.

The population is low exactly because of what you yourself just said. They removed any interesting commitments we could have had, when they disabled team league queue, making guild team formations irrelevant and useless.

Making it seem like people are leaving because we lack a 5v5 teamQ... sorry but that's just not a thing. You can commit to a team and grind tournaments so the funcionality is there. If you have the time and willing to give the effort, you can farm up them tourneys and challenge the big boys in the monthly.
To that you might say: "but tourneys aren't always on..." and you'd be right, you can do a few warmup matches in unranked though.
"But das boring!" - you might say - "trampling over a bunch of randoms is hardly a challenge" and look at that you're right again. Just like a 5v5 queue would be, with the low number of players willing to play. The chances of an enemy team with roughly your skill level queueing the same time as you would be close to zero.

When the playerbase is so low it cannot even support a solo/duoQ, talking about a gamemode that requires much more is pointless.

[Shao.7236]

28 minutes ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Since you've resorted to just slinging insults I take it you can't actually refute my points? Lmao

It ain't insults, you're quite literally saying that I want soloQ and profession locking at the same time which is false and proven if you read my statement properly.