Final review of Untamed. It's a pve spec and I will not use hammer in wvw at all.

[Swagger.1459]

Hammer is going to be a slow and useless weapon to me in wvw compared to other weapons available. I will not roam, team play, or zerg with hammer, nor will I use any Ranger specs for anything except roaming and small team... as per usual. This is rather disappointing honestly, considering we have frames of reference between good and not good weapons and skill designs. and what makes for good team play. Additionally disappointing considering that in 2017 we were given a dagger that is subpar and near useless, so everyone mostly ran a Power Soulbeast with LB/GS. 5 years of fun wow using weapons from 2012. 

 

We've had years using the same stale weapons and have been orbiting around similar meta builds that provide any usefulness. Seriously, there is only so much more I can take running versions of LB/GS from 2012, and the occasional Druid builds (that still are awful for team healing).  

 

If you want this spec to be a "bruiser", then please make it a "bruiser". I'd like to use this weapon in wvw, so please speed up these hammer skills. Please make hammer 5 at least 900 range leap. Please make hammer 3 another movement skill out to 900. And please give all Hammer 1 skills 900 range. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Swagger.1459

[Dadnir.5038]

What do you even want to do with untamed in PvE? It's not because nobody will use that outside of OW PvE that it is a PvE spec. They tried to revive a GW1 PvP spec and it didn't go well. Also the ambushes skills look nice (for PvP).

[Arheundel.6451]

53 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Hammer is going to be a slow and useless weapon to me in wvw compared to other weapons available. I will not roam, team play, or zerg with hammer, nor will I use any Ranger specs for anything except roaming and small team... as per usual. This is rather disappointing honestly, considering we have frames of reference between good and not good weapons and skill designs. and what makes for good team play. Additionally disappointing considering that in 2017 we were given a dagger that is subpar and near useless, so everyone mostly ran a Power Soulbeast with LB/GS. 5 years of fun wow using weapons from 2012. 

 

We've had years using the same stale weapons and have been orbiting around similar meta builds that provide any usefulness. Seriously, there is only so much more I can take running versions of LB/GS from 2012, and the occasional Druid builds (that still are awful for team healing).  

 

If you want this spec to be a "bruiser", then please make it a "bruiser". I'd like to use this weapon in wvw, so please speed up these hammer skills. Please make hammer 5 at least 900 range leap. Please make hammer 3 another movement skill out to 900. And please give all Hammer 1 skills 900 range. 

Eventually people will start running some tanky/cele untamed as....yes the 1X+ roaming build on ranger. It will be great for a while in PvP...before being uber nerfed forcing players to go back to...yes core ranger.  Basically we have the same script for each class...nothing will ever change...

[Levetty.1279]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if a condi dps build comes out of this for PvE due to all the poison and how good Axe ambush is, though shortbow's is a bit clunky. Probably end up falling short numbers wise but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Hammer is going to be a slow and useless weapon to me in wvw compared to other weapons available. I will not roam, team play, or zerg with hammer, nor will I use any Ranger specs for anything except roaming and small team... as per usual. This is rather disappointing honestly, considering we have frames of reference between good and not good weapons and skill designs. and what makes for good team play. Additionally disappointing considering that in 2017 we were given a dagger that is subpar and near useless, so everyone mostly ran a Power Soulbeast with LB/GS. 5 years of fun wow using weapons from 2012. 

 

We've had years using the same stale weapons and have been orbiting around similar meta builds that provide any usefulness. Seriously, there is only so much more I can take running versions of LB/GS from 2012, and the occasional Druid builds (that still are awful for team healing).  

 

If you want this spec to be a "bruiser", then please make it a "bruiser". I'd like to use this weapon in wvw, so please speed up these hammer skills. Please make hammer 5 at least 900 range leap. Please make hammer 3 another movement skill out to 900. And please give all Hammer 1 skills 900 range. 

Hizen's SB build uses both daggers, and with Condi i've been able to solo everything in open world, legendary or champions, and bounties. I wouldn't exactly say Dagger is useless, its really effective in a tanky condi build. Of course, that is open world solo play, not really wvw fighting which does require the usual GS/LB combo as its just too good. 

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Hizen's SB build uses both daggers, and with Condi i've been able to solo everything in open world, legendary or champions, and bounties. I wouldn't exactly say Dagger is useless, its really effective in a tanky condi build. Of course, that is open world solo play, not really wvw fighting which does require the usual GS/LB combo as its just too good. 

Yeah he obviously has never tried to use dagger, it combo's really well with the poison life steal trait. You can just auto attack downed enemies and no one can resurrect them.

The other strength is the amazing synergy with hybrid builds, you have eastily get 15k dps with auto alone. 

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah he obviously has never tried to use dagger, it combo's really well with the poison life steal trait. You can just auto attack downed enemies and no one can resurrect them.

The other strength is the amazing synergy with hybrid builds, you have eastily get 15k dps with auto alone. 

Actually, I have 7 rangers with various builds. Condi builds and daggers included, but thanks for the assumption. However, you are free to take your dagger/dagger build into wvw and report your results and let me know how well it works there for roaming, in small teams, and large group play? 

 

 I honestly don’t care about pve, where most anything can work, this thread is more related to wvw. 
 

 

[Swagger.1459]

The Virtuoso is a much better "bruiser", and pumps out a ton of "bruising" to 5 targets at 1,200 range.  

[anduriell.6280]

untammed won't be used in WvW at all. 

The damage is not there and definitely the sustain won't be there. Sure some busted build will come up at some point but it will be nerfed the following week the same as it happens to Druid. 

So forget about this baing playable. I have my concerns this will be even be playable in PvP. 

[BlackPanda.7619]

10 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Actually, I have 7 rangers with various builds. Condi builds and daggers included, but thanks for the assumption. However, you are free to take your dagger/dagger build into wvw and report your results and let me know how well it works there for roaming, in small teams, and large group play? 

 

 I honestly don’t care about pve, where most anything can work, this thread is more related to wvw. 
 

 

I found this while looking for fun melee wvw builds for my soulbeast, it looks good imo.. not the best out there but senses good.

Wvw Power Melee Soulbeast

Edited December 1, 2021 by BlackPanda.7619

[Junkpile.7439]

Tested hammer and didn't even first understand that skills change when you go that untamed mode because skills are all almost same.

[Levetty.1279]

13 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

The Virtuoso is a much better "bruiser", and pumps out a ton of "bruising" to 5 targets at 1,200 range.  

Maybe try playing Virtuoso before commentating. 

[Swagger.1459]

8 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Maybe try playing Virtuoso before commentating. 

What’s wrong? Are you upset with Virtuoso? Need more 1,200 range 5 target damage from it and the devs won’t give it to you? 

 

I did try it buttercup, I was tearing up stuff in Dragon’s Stand. 
 

Next time try to avoid assumptions. 
 

 

[Levetty.1279]

56 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

What’s wrong? Are you upset with Virtuoso? Need more 1,200 range 5 target damage from it and the devs won’t give it to you? 

 

I did try it buttercup, I was tearing up stuff in Dragon’s Stand. 
 

Next time try to avoid assumptions. 
 

 

Oh kitten tearing stuff up in Dragon's Stand watch out pro gamer here.

[Swagger.1459]

12 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Oh kitten tearing stuff up in Dragon's Stand watch out pro gamer here.

Oh kitten, we have a target dummy dps nerd who is QQing over the fact that the Virtuoso was doing 42k dps and got a lil nerfed… oh no… Meanwhile top Ranger build is Soulbeast at 37. 

 

This thread is about wvw related performance, go back to your PvE target dummy dps dungeon and QQ about Virtuoso some more. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Swagger.1459

[Levetty.1279]

2 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Oh kitten, we have a target dummy dps nerd who is QQing over the fact that the Virtuoso was doing 42k dps and got a lil nerfed… oh no… Meanwhile top Ranger build is Soulbeast at 37. 

 

This thread is about wvw related performance, go back to your PvE target dummy dps dungeon and QQ about Virtuoso some more. 

Carry on throwing a tantrum because you got called out on your complete lack of knowledge on the game.

 

1200 range Bruiser, funniest thing I've ever seen.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

Gotta say, I'm having fun with Untamed, but using Axe/Torch + SB in a Cele build.

• Celestial armor/trinkets w/Traveler Runes
• Celestial axe/torch and shortbow 
• Traits:
  • Wilderness Survival 3-1-2
  • Beastmaster 2-3-3
  • Untamed 3-2-3
• Perilous Gift, Exploding Spores, Lightning Reflexes, Unnatural Traversal, Forest Fortification
• Iboga & Jacaranda

Its all open-world, but that's what I care about.

[Levetty.1279]

8 minutes ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

Gotta say, I'm having fun with Untamed, but using Axe/Torch + SB in a Cele build.

• Celestial armor/trinkets w/Traveler Runes
• Celestial axe/torch and shortbow 
• Traits:
  • Wilderness Survival 3-1-2
  • Beastmaster 2-3-3
  • Untamed 3-2-3
• Perilous Gift, Exploding Spores, Lightning Reflexes, Unnatural Traversal, Forest Fortification
• Iboga & Jacaranda

Its all open-world, but that's what I care about.

How are you finding the shortbow ambush? I keep screwing up and firing it in random directions 🤣

[Swagger.1459]

13 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Carry on throwing a tantrum because you got called out on your complete lack of knowledge on the game.

 

1200 range Bruiser, funniest thing I've ever seen.

That’s right, it will be a better bruiser in wvw. Certainly puts out more damage than Untamed, and the range translates to better damage performance and survivability in wvw. But since you are QQing over pve and stationary pve target dummies, wouldn’t expect you to understand that in wvw targets are players that don’t stand still for your pve skill rotations.

 

 

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

10 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

How are you finding the shortbow ambush? I keep screwing up and firing it in random directions 🤣

I agree. I get the intent...but switching from targeted to ground-targeted AoE was not really a good idea. It should be an AoE around the target. 

[Levetty.1279]

18 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

That’s right, it will be a better bruiser in wvw. Certainly puts out more damage than Untamed, and the range translates to better damage performance and survivability in wvw. But since you are QQing over pve and stationary pve target dummies, wouldn’t expect you to understand that in wvw targets are players that don’t stand still for your pve skill rotations.

 

 

Which WvW map is Dragon's Stand in? Hopefully they add Longbow to the next Ranger Spec so we can Brusier in it!

[Swagger.1459]

38 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Which WvW map is Dragon's Stand in? Hopefully they add Longbow to the next Ranger Spec so we can Brusier in it!

You seem to have stumbled into a thread pertaining to wvw. I don’t care about your PvE dps, and  topic has nothing to do with PvE dps. 

 

I know you are having some difficulties with a PvE nerf to virtuoso, but this topic relates to wvw performance. It doesn’t take much brain matter to quickly determine that the skills from virtuoso will outperform in wvw compared to what hammer offers rangers. Because unlike your mostly stationary AI in pve, wvw is mostly comprised of player that don’t stand still. Understand? 
 

Again, this isn’t a PvE dps thread, go qq about virtuoso in that section because you’re obviously having a difficult time with it and are projecting it across all sections. 
 

 

 

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 11/30/2021 at 12:07 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

What do you even want to do with untamed in PvE? It's not because nobody will use that outside of OW PvE that it is a PvE spec. They tried to revive a GW1 PvP spec and it didn't go well. Also the ambushes skills look nice (for PvP).

The ambushes, though a bit situational, at least seem pretty handy for a number of specs that I run in spvp. But yeah, I don't even see much pve use for untamed, and I thought the attempt to bring back bunny thumper (and many players asking for it) was never going to turn out well. My understanding is that the thumper from GW1 allowed rangers to spam high-energy-cost cc and keep up expensive buffs thanks to the expertise line. Of course ranger in GW2 has absolutely no energy management, so it would have had to come down to reducing cds across a variety of weapon/utility/proc-trait skills... which sounds extremely difficult to balance, especially in light of no damage on cc skills now.

So what we ended up with is a 'bruiser' weapon that lacks impressive defenses, as well as notable pressure. GS remains our premier melee option, as it has hard cc, easy to use block, gap closer/escape, and massive burst move that synergizes with a number of traits. Untamed also does nothing to solve the unstealthed pet issue when pushing with a group. I might run a meme hammer build here and there in wvw if I can come up with any, but eh. In terms of wvw, I feel hammer is dead on arrival.

Edited December 1, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Dadnir.5038]

11 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Untamed also does nothing to solve the unstealthed pet issue when pushing with a group.

To be fair, they could just add stealth to fortifying bond to solve this issue. (Like they could add banner buff and "professions' auras" to the list)

[emilejuggernaut.1864]

With the new WvW update making it a corner-stone untamed is not helping ranger have a place in large scale fights again. Comparing this to the last e-spec soulbeast I struggle to see any aspect of the game it excels in, I never feel squishy as a ranger in pve content in general. Melee wise to be quite honest GS is so well designed that the hammer simply cannot compete with its current tool kit the hammer for ranger might be the dullest iteration in game. Cantrips really need to help group support ranger has so little sharing options in general. In order to get any use out of the unleash pet skills it feels like tanky/invlun pets are going to be the go to. Simple things like the pet F3 doesnt always work because sometimes your pet doesn't stick to you close enough for it to be of use it is always adjacent I dont see how this would work in WvW are you going to stand to the side of your team? Personally I think each of the pet unleashes should be the main point and it should duplicate onto you and each weapon just has a better designed more impactful unleashed attack bouncing is cool in concept but I feel triggering a bond would be easier to implement and take away the issue of the pet AI being unresponsive. 

 

I just don't understand the goal for untamed.