Catalyst feels like trash

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:35 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

if this is sub-par dps (and rota is easy, finally), i'd want to know what is good dps for you

No one cares about dps benchmarks because its obviously going to change. People care about how the class feels to play, and hammer feels awful.

[Grimjack.8130]

6 hours ago, Flori.2194 said:

Dude talks like there are only the lackluster new e-specs in spvp or wvw lel...

Holo, Necro, Ranger and Weaver rip this thing apart but yeah, those ain't eod specs so that doesn't count...

I beat multiple Plat 3 holos today on multiple variants of Catalyst, I've farmed Necros as Catalyst as it has more cleanse than Weaver while doing way more damage as it doesn't have to be Condition Damage to have Condition Cleanse, Ranger you're basically immune to with your Mag Aura uptime, and as the best Weaver in the game, I doubt I'd be able to beat my Catalyst, at least very fast.

Maybe the guy who already has 25+ hours on Catalyst and over 2k on Weaver knows a bit more about it than you 😞 Just a thought.

Note how in my original comment I did not say the spec couldn't be buffed, I said sweeping functional changes. No new Profession Mechanic, no new way you place the Orb, no new 10+ skills on Hammer.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Grimjack.8130

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

45 minutes ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

I beat multiple Plat 3 holos today on multiple variants of Catalyst, I've farmed Necros as Catalyst as it has more cleanse than Weaver while doing way more damage as it doesn't have to be Condition Damage to have Condition Cleanse, Ranger you're basically immune to with your Mag Aura uptime, and as the best Weaver in the game, I doubt I'd be able to beat my Catalyst, at least very fast.

Maybe the guy who already has 25+ hours on Catalyst and over 2k on Weaver knows a bit more about it than you 😞 Just a thought.

Note how in my original comment I did not say the spec couldn't be buffed, I said sweeping functional changes. No new Profession Mechanic, no new way you place the Orb, no new 10+ skills on Hammer.

Ive beat plat 3 players with staff LR because they had no idea how to fight it. Its been 3 days, people dont know how to fight the new specs and people havent had time to find what works and what doesnt. Right now having a counter build is far more important than the classes actual viability.

[Grimjack.8130]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Ive beat plat 3 players with staff LR because they had no idea how to fight it. Its been 3 days, people dont know how to fight the new specs and people havent had time to find what works and what doesnt. Right now having a counter build is far more important than the classes actual viability.

Ye u right catalyst counters every PoF spec, must be pretty good then tbh

[Arheundel.6451]

12 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

Catalyst is a top tier pick in an EoD meta right now, it matches up well with every other sidenoder and wins, while contributing a great amount in teamfights with its Protection, Quickness, and Resolution generation.
Not to mention D/D tends to run Berserker Amulet right now which can lead to insane fire combos where you blow up 1 or multiple targets at a time, and you can do it back to back with the elite, ending a teamfight in just a moments notice.

Hammer actually has a solid sidenode build too, but lacks survivability when it gets outnumbered aggressively due to its poor mobility, bulk, and defensive CDs.

Currently if you swap between builds to best deal with the enemy EoD sidenoder, you have no bad 1v1s. Virtuoso, Mechanist, Bladesworn, and you can even beat Vindicator(especially with a skillgap) if you end up on the right build for it.

Here are the best builds for Catalyst as it stands right now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agkpIQwSODUbvWC-cYnqYMKFf7FH6hbItNkABUr9DGo/edit?usp=sharing

I'm no shill, Catalyst isn't gonna compete with the best specs in the game right now however thats easy to fix with buffs, but in terms of potential its far better than Weaver and has most of the same Pros as Weaver with very little of the Cons. 

CATALYST DOES NOT NEED NOR SHOULD GET SWEEPING FUNCTIONAL CHANGES.

Catalyst is core ele 2.0 and that's why you find success with it already, by comparison Weaver was close to be a sub-par overcomplicated variant of core ele...just saved by sword and Twist of fate, without those weaver would have been useless for the vast majority of ele players.

 

D/D catalyst would be a stronger duellist with better synergy with core traits and more power dmg in general but weaver still got sword

 

-Surprinsingly Staff catalyst plays very well, better at ranged support and pressure with the ranged sphere-

[scerevisiae.1972]

20 hours ago, Sao.7146 said:

@Flori.2194
Maybe you should not mix Catalyst and Hammer.

Dagger Catalyst is pretty good in spvp
Staff Catalyst is pretty good in wvw
Hammer Catalyst is pretty good in pve ( atleast until they fix the balls )

Catalyst and the Sphere are pretty good, but hammer is just dogshit in spvp/wvw.
 

Yeah ^this, though i think sword weaver kicks the kitten out of hammer catalyst in PVE.

Hammer is true garbage in WVW. 

Stupid videos vs golems or stationary fractal bosses are totally totally worthless.

 

Even if they tweak hammer's dmg coefficients to sky high, it would still suck because it's too close to sword/dagger and feels like crap to play in WVW/PVP because of the awkward melee-600 range split.

600 range caster is a potentially interesting space but - and there's no way to window dress it -- Anet in my view have completely failed to deliver on that brief.

It really sucks that bad.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972

[Mattmatt.4962]

14 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

Not to mention D/D tends to run Berserker Amulet right now which can lead to insane fire combos where you blow up 1 or multiple targets at a time, and you can do it back to back with the elite, ending a teamfight in just a moments notice.

 

So you're trying to tell us that people manage to get killed by the 9yo combo Burning speed into Fire grasp ??? 

And because of that Catalyst is strong ? Yeah ... that's a no

Edited December 4, 2021 by Mattmatt.4962

[Dadnir.5038]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:46 AM, Lynx.9058 said:

You have to play piano again...

You'd be surprised how poorly the elementalist community react to build that require less pianoplay. At some point there was a top dps fire burn build that basically only required you to stay in fire and there were some elementalist players begging for it to be nerfed because "Elementalist shouldn't have simple gameplay". And the worst point is that they got what they asked.

[giblets.6401]

I think the traits are pretty boring and don't change the playstyle but it's really hammer that is the true trash.

 

Mixed melee/600 range was a dumb idea. Plays like crap. 

[kurosy.1384]

lol i was in the wrong thread and not even noticed -.- Posts can't be deleted?

Edited December 4, 2021 by kurosy.1384

[Lynx.9058]

6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You'd be surprised how poorly the elementalist community react to build that require less pianoplay. At some point there was a top dps fire burn build that basically only required you to stay in fire and there were some elementalist players begging for it to be nerfed because "Elementalist shouldn't have simple gameplay". And the worst point is that they got what they asked.

Maybe it's all these young kids playing, my old hands can't keep up with the piano builds.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

Just now, Lynx.9058 said:

Maybe it's all these young kids playing, my old hands can't keep up with the piano builds.

Well, to be fair, there are still some gameplay that focus on single attunment that work pretty well. Those build aren't popular because they aren't "the most effective" builds out there but 8 time out of 10 you perform better with those builds than with the "most effective" one simply because they are just easy to use.

[Lynx.9058]

18 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, to be fair, there are still some gameplay that focus on single attunment that work pretty well. Those build aren't popular because they aren't "the most effective" builds out there but 8 time out of 10 you perform better with those builds than with the "most effective" one simply because they are just easy to use.

I've been considering weaver mostly sticking to fire/earth, how would that work out?  Other option at this point is dumping ele entirely and rolling something else

[Dadnir.5038]

5 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I've been considering weaver mostly sticking to fire/earth, how would that work out?  Other option at this point is dumping ele entirely and rolling something else

I don't know, I'm more of Tempest guy personally. Put a fire field, overload into the fire field to combo whirl, blanket the area with shouts... etc. I find my fun into this and don't look much into other things that feel unnecessary complicated.

[ClickToKill.8473]

Its probably more doable in Scepter/ Warhorn Tempest than Weaver.  You can sit in fire and stack might all day, spread it with warhorn 4, then switch to Earth to reset the buffs with Warhorn 4 on you team, then switch back to Fire. 

 

Its tedious, but you can boost your team to 25 might really fast. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by ClickToKill.8473

[SunTzu.4513]

23 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I've been considering weaver mostly sticking to fire/earth, how would that work out?  Other option at this point is dumping ele entirely and rolling something else

 

I have had great sucess with an Weaver Trailblazer build. I'm not against piano playing like classes but i'm also an older gamer and need really to focus on what i'm doing if i permanently flow trough all of the elements. Somedays that's fun, but often i just want to relax and not go all in. I first run a condi weaver build with carrion gear. Changed it into trailblazer and mostly just rotate between fire and earth.

 

I got my inspiration from here:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2C1NnjugMk&ab_channel=HardcoreCasual

 

I use the same build, only switching between fire and earth all the time. If you want to give it a try use any kind of armor stats with condi damage and vitality/thoughness. I played T4 fractals in pug groups with it and done all the drm too with it.

 

Another option would be an D/D power tempest with marauder gear and a few soldier trinkets mixed in imo. I would go for fresh air and only attune to an other element if i need it.

 

[Ace.1784]

1 hour ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I've been considering weaver mostly sticking to fire/earth, how would that work out?  Other option at this point is dumping ele entirely and rolling something else

It's actually a viable way to play Weaver. Power Weaver usually focuses on Air/Fire and Condi Weaver Earth/Fire (Although pyro vortex is also crazy strong). 

The only build that requires you to attune to all elements is Condi Weaver during the Weave Self rotation, otherwise it's at your own discretion.

 

 

[scerevisiae.1972]

Agree the duelling capabilities of hammer cata or the golem benchmarks of hammer are not that bad, but that's not the problem many are describing.

It's the overall feel of the weapon - mixed melee/600 range feels like crap to play and severely limits where the weapon can be used to golems, stationary raid bosses and lol-sPVP circles. 

Everywhere else (most of the game) it's pure crap, e.g. the WVW performance of hammer is total garbge - short range, small AOEs, heavy projectile reliance.

That's why it's trash.

[Avatara.1042]

Yes, DPS will be balanced, but the trash feeling of the spec and Hammer will remain.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:35 PM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

if this is sub-par dps (and rota is easy, finally), i'd want to know what is good dps for you

Right....we all know they will hard nerf the dmg by the time EoD launch or few months after....like they did with weaver dmg traits lol, they will lower the overall dmg to 30k something while nerfing the sustain on top......luckily they are not huge defensive factors to start with

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Right....we all know they will hard nerf the dmg by the time EoD launch or few months after....like they did with weaver dmg traits lol, they will lower the overall dmg to 30k something while nerfing the sustain on top......luckily they are not huge defensive factors to start with

A-net will nerf core sustain, to make sure Catalyst will be the least touched in the process, to screw core-players even more. :')

[Arheundel.6451]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:40 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

Catalyst is a top tier pick in an EoD meta right now, it matches up well with every other sidenoder and wins, while contributing a great amount in teamfights with its Protection, Quickness, and Resolution generation.
Not to mention D/D tends to run Berserker Amulet right now which can lead to insane fire combos where you blow up 1 or multiple targets at a time, and you can do it back to back with the elite, ending a teamfight in just a moments notice.

Hammer actually has a solid sidenode build too, but lacks survivability when it gets outnumbered aggressively due to its poor mobility, bulk, and defensive CDs.

Currently if you swap between builds to best deal with the enemy EoD sidenoder, you have no bad 1v1s. Virtuoso, Mechanist, Bladesworn, and you can even beat Vindicator(especially with a skillgap) if you end up on the right build for it.

Here are the best builds for Catalyst as it stands right now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agkpIQwSODUbvWC-cYnqYMKFf7FH6hbItNkABUr9DGo/edit?usp=sharing

I'm no shill, Catalyst isn't gonna compete with the best specs in the game right now however thats easy to fix with buffs, but in terms of potential its far better than Weaver and has most of the same Pros as Weaver with very little of the Cons. 

CATALYST DOES NOT NEED NOR SHOULD GET SWEEPING FUNCTIONAL CHANGES.

Although you should realize that the average joe here is not happy with the way ele plays, this because the effort=reward ratio for the whole game is 5 to 8 where with ele is 10 to 7, basically double the effort for similar or slightly lower rewards

Ele is not popular for a good reason

Edited December 5, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[GLOR.2489]

On 12/3/2021 at 8:40 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

Catalyst is a top tier pick in an EoD meta right now, it matches up well with every other sidenoder and wins, while contributing a great amount in teamfights with its Protection, Quickness, and Resolution generation.
Not to mention D/D tends to run Berserker Amulet right now which can lead to insane fire combos where you blow up 1 or multiple targets at a time, and you can do it back to back with the elite, ending a teamfight in just a moments notice.

Hammer actually has a solid sidenode build too, but lacks survivability when it gets outnumbered aggressively due to its poor mobility, bulk, and defensive CDs.

Currently if you swap between builds to best deal with the enemy EoD sidenoder, you have no bad 1v1s. Virtuoso, Mechanist, Bladesworn, and you can even beat Vindicator(especially with a skillgap) if you end up on the right build for it.

Here are the best builds for Catalyst as it stands right now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1agkpIQwSODUbvWC-cYnqYMKFf7FH6hbItNkABUr9DGo/edit?usp=sharing

I'm no shill, Catalyst isn't gonna compete with the best specs in the game right now however thats easy to fix with buffs, but in terms of potential its far better than Weaver and has most of the same Pros as Weaver with very little of the Cons. 

CATALYST DOES NOT NEED NOR SHOULD GET SWEEPING FUNCTIONAL CHANGES.

 Hi Grimjack, I totally agree with you and I already wrote a post a few days ago saying that "Catalyst is really strong in pvp '' which is super good news. Besides, I have been testing 4 days non-stop on PVP conquest and the feeling was really good and smooth. I could defeat many classes and platine 3 players which I am not able to win like that with the weaver or tempest.

To me, the Catalyst does not need any changes except maybe for the hammer (like reducing a little bit of cast time or  whatever).

 

I think elementalist players do not see what they have in their hands... 😕

 

 

[Okaerin.3145]

I only want to point few things:

TrollingDemigod.3041 , with that nick it is hard to take someone seriously, and reading his post it seems he is really trolling

Grimjack.8130, I agree on almost everything you said, also those videos showed me how bad I am at the game

 

One of the things people seem to forget is how hard Catalyst can carry a party now with the Jade Spheres, kitten it is absurd, I already watched all those "solo stuff" and looks insane but it is even more incredible having one to support whatever you need in a party with perma Protec/Might/Quickness while also doing a lot of damage.

 

The concept of the Elite feels good, maybe the Hammer is not for everyone, I must admit I don't like a lot so I was using other things (like Dagger/Focus or Scepter/Dagger from behind party), if someone doesn't like the Hammer he can skip it, an Elite Spec that forces you to use only the new weapon is a fail to me, and Catalyst isn't the case thankfully.

 

Other thing is Elite Specs are a way to use the character in a different way, they are not a fuking power creep as some crubs want to believe or want it to be (thanks Anet), I've been playing Core Ranger and Core Warrior until today since years and finally I will go Untamed with Ranger and still use Core Warrior because none of the Elites fit my gameplay/feel with the proffession.

 

Compared to how the previous Beta was this is incredible, I already play Weaver and Tempest and I am thinking of changing Tempest for Catalyst specially for how good it will be in a lot of content for team play.

Again the Hammer weapon is option but doesn't feel as bad as people said, and it really has few good skills for sustain/survival 

[Emberheart.8426]

6 minutes ago, Okaerin.3145 said:

I only want to point few things:

TrollingDemigod.3041 , with that nick it is hard to take someone seriously, and reading his post it seems he is really trolling

Grimjack.8130, I agree on almost everything you said, also those videos showed me how bad I am at the game

 

One of the things people seem to forget is how hard Catalyst can carry a party now with the Jade Spheres, kitten it is absurd, I already watched all those "solo stuff" and looks insane but it is even more incredible having one to support whatever you need in a party with perma Protec/Might/Quickness while also doing a lot of damage.

 

The concept of the Elite feels good, maybe the Hammer is not for everyone, I must admit I don't like a lot so I was using other things (like Dagger/Focus or Scepter/Dagger from behind party), if someone doesn't like the Hammer he can skip it, an Elite Spec that forces you to use only the new weapon is a fail to me, and Catalyst isn't the case thankfully.

 

Other thing is Elite Specs are a way to use the character in a different way, they are not a fuking power creep as some crubs want to believe or want it to be (thanks Anet), I've been playing Core Ranger and Core Warrior until today since years and finally I will go Untamed with Ranger and still use Core Warrior because none of the Elites fit my gameplay/feel with the proffession.

 

Compared to how the previous Beta was this is incredible, I already play Weaver and Tempest and I am thinking of changing Tempest for Catalyst specially for how good it will be in a lot of content for team play.

Again the Hammer weapon is option but doesn't feel as bad as people said, and it really has few good skills for sustain/survival 

 

I have to say that catalyst is way better, but hammer is not merely a weapon that is not for everyone. It's simply a weapon that contradicts itself, period. The issue mainly stems from the orbs. You are supposed to have some range flexibility with the hammer, between melee and mid range, but the orbs simply take it away for two reasons.

They severely punish you for trying to make use of your mid range capability, and even worse they force you to swap attunements very quickly, which means getting out of your mid range attunements.

They simply do not work with how the rest of the weapon is designed, and feel like another profession mechanic that doesn't need to exist and is a gimmick. Basically shatters 2.0, but way harder to use while having to use your real mechanic and do a bunch of other stuff.