Virtuoso Needs Off-hand Dagger

[Raven.8156]

Is Mesmer really the only espec not to receive a two handed weapon in any expansion so far?

 

I really think we can justify dual dagger on the virtuoso to compensate. Considering all the other core offhand weapons deal with phantasms.., it’d be nice to have an off-hand that caters to the virtuoso mechanics change.

I believe adding a dagger 4/5 to include some mobility or a block will help mitigate the issue of survivability when playing as the virtuoso.

 

please consider adding off-hand dagger…. 😄

 

Note: 

IMO it is a bad design choice to modify sword 3 (Blade Leap) on the virtuoso when it cannot be paired with main-hand dagger. Blade Leap is a good example of what an off-hand dagger 4 could provide. Some mobility + chained to a utility to restock a blade.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Raven.8156
Provide Example

[Lethion.8745]

But that would make Mesmer strong and we can't allow that to happen.

[Sodeni.6041]

Yes! And give it a movement skill and some condi cleansing.

 

Make phantasms disappear as Virtuoso and let the Mesmer do the attack themselves, thus we would get more movement with greatsword and defense with focus for example. It would pusht he "no clones" theme even better.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

What would it do, though? 

 

[OriOri.8724]

8 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

What would it do, though? 

 

Virtuoso should have a mobility skill and a cripple/immob other than that weird utility that's trivial  to walk out of, since its supposed to be a long range DPS spec but currently has no way to stay at range/disengage. OH dagger would be 2 new weapon skills that could provide both of those and just overall give more flavor to the spec

[Raven.8156]

23 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

What would it do, though? 

 

Looking for community feedback on this one. 

 

I had the opinion that the current core off-hand Mesmer weapons felt a little awkward to use as they summon phantasms. I do think the virtuoso is intended to be high-risk but having some sort of mobility or extra block with a dagger off-hand would help tie it together as well.

 

some people have been talking about potential for condi, so maybe something condi related on a dagger 4/5. 

 

regardless, it just feels like dual dagger would match the theme of this e-spec well. IMO

[Urphen.2857]

We will get nothing, look at all this troll posts that Virtu ist perfect and it needs no change, guess what will Anet do? Yes they ignore good feedback and will hear only what the trolls say 

[Veprovina.4876]

When Spellbreaker got a dagger, they got both.

I can't think of a reason to give Virtuoso only main hand dagger honestly.

It's obviously bad, 2 more skills might balance the jankiness out.

[Tseison.4659]

24 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

When Spellbreaker got a dagger, they got both.

I can't think of a reason to give Virtuoso only main hand dagger honestly.

It's obviously bad, 2 more skills might balance the jankiness out.

It’s funny because someone a while back (likely a Warrior player) had the audacity to tell me that the only reason why Warrior got dual daggers is because they’re the master of all weapons (and yet didn’t get dual pistols lol) but that still doesn’t justify why Mesmers can’t get dual daggers. 

Mirage with Dual Axes makes sense and should’ve happened.

Mesmer with Dual Pistols makes sense and should’ve happened.

and now we’re here with the Virtuoso where thematically, Dual Daggers makes sense and should’ve happened. Even if they wanted to add some flavour where our off hand dagger is a psionic one.

[mortrialus.3062]

I wouldn't say no to offhand Dagger, but it actually won't help make Main Hand dagger become a more well rounded weapon kit.  If you're going to make Dagger actually good at it's job as a ranged weapon it needs to be as well rounded with as much utility for a ranged damage dealer as other ranged weapon kits like Ranger and Dragoon Hunter longbow and Deadeye rifle and that means changing Dagger 2+3 to have good quality of life and then being able to round out the rest of the kit which whichever offhand you prefer. 

I keep repeating this but it bears repeating. 

Ranger Longbow

1.  High Velocity Projectile

2.  Main damage skill, high velocity good at any range.

3.  Stealth to escape a target that gets close.

4.  Knockback to push a close target away.

5.  A long range AOE cripple that is ground targeted, applies cripple to keep targets away, and can rack up 10k damage.

Dragonhunter Longbow:

1. High Velocity projectile good at any range, any target that is hit by it after the first target is crippled. 

2. Main damage skill, high velocity good at any range.  Huge damage easily hitting for ~10k with short set up.

3.  Unblockable Knockback and Projectile Reflect on a very short cooldown. 

4.  Ground Targeted AOE

5.  Ground Targeted Ward that can only be passed with stability.  Cripples foes in side it. 

Plus the Dragonhunter F1, F2, and F3 are all really excellent.

Deadeye Rifle:

1.  High Velocity Projectile

2.   Cripple / Immobilize.

3.  Main damage skill, high velocity good at any range.

4.  A massive blink backwards that can be spammed if targets get close / a projectile destroying wall if someone tries to attack you from range. 

 

These are just more complete kits that have ways to keep people away, do good damage at max range, and get away from the target should they close the gap.   Dagger has none of these and regardless on what offhand you have it doesn't make the kit as well rounded as those competitively.  You can get a stealth or a stun or a pull which doesn't compare to the quality of life on either of those weapon kits. Regardless of which offhand you pick you're still sitting at 33% of the quality of life of those other, better long range kits and both of those are just better at dealing damage at range entirely. 

Dagger 2+3 need quality of life that befits a ranged damage dealer, with the offhand choice rounding out the build to similar levels of quality of life as those two weapon kits to about 3 skills each. Dagger also needs to simply be retooled to being effective damage at any range.  I won't say no to Offhand Dagger for sure, but to actually address Virtuoso's issues the dagger 2+3 need to be adjusted to have proper utility as well because just dagger offhand won't fix the problem.

Edited December 7, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Zenith.7301]

Since chronomancer, mesmer has not ahd an e-spec that gives them a new phantasm skill. Pretty obvious Anet don't want the work.

[Leonidrex.5649]

58 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Since chronomancer, mesmer has not ahd an e-spec that gives them a new phantasm skill. Pretty obvious Anet don't want the work.

yep, phantasms are so poorly coded all of them have their own weird kitten weapon dmg modifiers, half of them are bugged too

[Raven.8156]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

Since chronomancer, mesmer has not ahd an e-spec that gives them a new phantasm skill. Pretty obvious Anet don't want the work.

Isn't this part of the argument for the virtuoso? not to be focused on the clones or phantasms?

besides there is no intended synergy with the phantasms.. that I have noticed anyway 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Eric.7813

[Yoci.2481]

No, Virtuoso is the spec without clones, not without phantasms.

[Walle.6045]

I agree, dual daggers might make a lot more sense. 

Played a fair bit in the beta. In its current state the virtuoso just does not feel right to play, there is no flow. I have more fun with the new spec when I replaced the daggers and ran around with double greatsword lol. 

I see no reason to use the dagger in its current state over even playing mirage which in most builds uses axe/pistol

[SoulGuardian.6203]

I wouldn't give it any daggers at all.

I would rather it have a Main Hand Pistol.

 

It seems that ANet decided to give the majority of classes unlikely and unsuitable weapons.

Ranger gets a hammer.

Ele gets a hammer.

Engineers get a mace.

Thieves get a scepter.

 

When is this going to stop?

 

...and the dude placing silly faces on all my mesmer posts. Stop stalking me and grow up.

Get a life.

Edited December 10, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Raven.8156]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:36 PM, Tseison.4659 said:

 

Mirage with Dual Axes makes sense and should’ve happened.

Mesmer with Dual Pistols makes sense and should’ve happened.

and now we’re here with the Virtuoso where thematically, Dual Daggers makes sense and should’ve happened. Even if they wanted to add some flavour where our off hand dagger is a psionic one.

Hmm, I wonder why Anet is reluctant to add it. It seems to be an obvious desire to run around with dual daggers on a class that’s themed for it. Not to mention, the lack for survivability being an easy issue to solve by adding the off-hand dagger. A simple mobility or block skill. It Doesn’t have to involve phantasms… 

 

I still have hope as they added ambush skills to the Untamed, which was a surprise given it had a new two handed weapon

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Eric.7813

[Raven.8156]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I wouldn't give it any daggers at all.

I would rather it have a Main Hand Pistol.

 

It seems that ANet decided to give the majority of classes unlikely and unsuitable weapons.

Ranger gets a hammer.

Ele gets a hammer.

Engineers get a mace.

Thieves get a scepter.

 

When is this going to stop?

I wouldn’t expect such a large change. They put a lot of work into the Virtuoso. I think the community just wants it to be the best it can be and up to par with the other elite specs.

 

just IMO though..

 

 

[Zenith.7301]

2 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I wouldn't give it any daggers at all.

I would rather it have a Main Hand Pistol.

 

It seems that ANet decided to give the majority of classes unlikely and unsuitable weapons.

Ranger gets a hammer.

Ele gets a hammer.

Engineers get a mace.

Thieves get a scepter.

 

When is this going to stop?

 

...and the dude placing silly faces on all my mesmer posts. Stop stalking me and grow up.

Get a life.

 

 

Ele hammer and ranger hammer are perfectly suitable, as is thief scepter, considering they use shadow arts.

 

Virtuoso dagger is just lame because daggers generally require symmetry with an offhand to look good, and the swinging animation for its attacks as a ranged weapon look so unbelievably stupid.

 

At least greatsword was given appropriate animations as a ranged take on the weapon. With daggers they were just lazy.

 

If you telekinetically swung around your dagger to create spells and effects, it would look a ton better.

 

But you'll notice with many specs, Vindicator and Harbinger in particular, they really did half assed, mediocre animations.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1 hour ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Ele hammer and ranger hammer are perfectly suitable, as is thief scepter, considering they use shadow arts.

 

Virtuoso dagger is just lame because daggers generally require symmetry with an offhand to look good, and the swinging animation for its attacks as a ranged weapon look so unbelievably stupid.

 

At least greatsword was given appropriate animations as a ranged take on the weapon. With daggers they were just lazy.

 

If you telekinetically swung around your dagger to create spells and effects, it would look a ton better.

 

But you'll notice with many specs, Vindicator and Harbinger in particular, they really did half assed, mediocre animations.

 

The AA animation is what really gets me the most. Here we have a Virtuoso, which (to me) thematically connotes the arguably most refined and elegant of any elite specs. And then they give it a kittening generic melee AA animation. Truly tragic.

[Kodama.6453]

6 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

It seems that ANet decided to give the majority of classes unlikely and unsuitable weapons.

Ranger gets a hammer.

Ele gets a hammer.

Engineers get a mace.

Thieves get a scepter.

I think these make sense, tbh.

Ranger hammer got requested for years because of the bunny thumper nostalgia and I don't see why a ranger shouldn't be able to swing a club around.

Ele hammer can make good sense, especially if you go for an earth elementalist theme.

Engineer mace has been one of the most wanted weapons since the beginning of this game. Many people actually even wanted it on core engineer because it just makes sense for the class to have it.

Thief scepter might seem weird at first, but makes sense with a shadow mage theme, which they went for.

I was not surprised by any of the new elite spec weapon choices, in fact, I predicted quite a bunch of them.

[Raven.8156]

3 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Virtuoso dagger is just lame because daggers generally require symmetry with an offhand to look good, and the swinging animation for its attacks as a ranged weapon look so unbelievably stupid.

 

If you telekinetically swung around your dagger to create spells and effects, it would look a ton better.

Definitely agree about the symmetry part

[SoulGuardian.6203]

8 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Ele hammer and ranger hammer are perfectly suitable, as is thief scepter, considering they use shadow arts.

Are you serious?

In which sane mind does that make sense?

I'm not being funny, but a Ranger needs ranged weapons. 

It's in the name.

Elementals are the most glass class, they also need ranged weapons.

Since when does a hammer suit a ranger?

Elemental + Air is a different story, but they desperately need a tremendous amount of armour buffs to keep them at close range.

 

Quote

 

Virtuoso dagger is just lame because daggers generally require symmetry with an offhand to look good, and the swinging animation for its attacks as a ranged weapon look so unbelievably stupid.

No question.

I suggested them to give mesmers a MH pistol instead... to no avail.

Surprise Surprise. 

Quote

 

At least greatsword was given appropriate animations as a ranged take on the weapon. With daggers they were just lazy.

Agreed.

 

Quote

If you telekinetically swung around your dagger to create spells and effects, it would look a ton better.

 

But you'll notice with many specs, Vindicator and Harbinger in particular, they really did half assed, mediocre animations.

True. Agree also.

The majority are recycled animations from other classes. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Urphen.2857]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Are you serious?

In which sane mind does that make sense?

I'm not being funny, but a Ranger needs ranged weapons. 

It's in the name.

Elementals are the most glass class, they also need ranged weapons.

Since when does a hammer suit a ranger?

Elemental + Air is a different story, but they desperately need a tremendous amount of armour buffs to keep them at close range.

 

No question.

I suggested them to give mesmers a MH pistol instead... to no avail.

Surprise Surprise. 

Agreed.

 

True. Agree also.

The majority are recycled animations from other classes. 

maybe this helps you to understand why ranger got hammer.

 

and no MH pistol would be as bad as dagger because we would get again only 3 skills and it would be again only something with dps, there would be no mobility on it or some usefull thing, we want 5 skills like other profession specs got, they can do this with dual dagger or give us a 2h weapon.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, Urphen.2857 said:

maybe this helps you to understand why ranger got hammer.

 

and no MH pistol would be as bad as dagger because we would get again only 3 skills and it would be again only something with dps, there would be no mobility on it or some usefull thing, we want 5 skills like other profession specs got, they can do this with dual dagger or give us a 2h weapon.

I didn't even need to click on the link to guess.

Yeah yeah, bunny thumper.

They just had to... it shows the lack of creativity and imagination. 

Occasionally going back in time to see what else can be extracted from gw1.

It's a surprise that monk 55 hasn't re-emerged yet.

So why not bring back Paragon and Dervish... or even Ritualist for that matter?

They'd better...

Do us all a favour and stop the class restrictions on weapons. 

Just give every class every weapon and players would create their own playstyles and combos as they see fit... might aswell that we're at it.

 

Ok. To be fair, get 5 skills just like everybody else.

I have no issues with that.

But IMO I'd rather compromise on quantity if that meant quality. 

An extra dagger and 2 more skills doesn't necessarily means that would improve the ES.

A lot of people are unhappy with it, and in their prespective (Not mine), it would be just like adding more salt to a wound.

Edited December 10, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203