[Final Battle] "dead pls WP" vs. "sum1 rez pls"

[Palador.2170]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

Yes i agree. The answers in the poll are answers to 2 completely different questions. I seriously hope further discussion isnt founded on the answers in this poll being proof because its so badly flawed. Im surprised more people cant notice it.

I noticed it, and chose the answer the OP doesn't want to skew things against them. The more people that take Option 2, the less they'll ever want to mention this again.

[Ashen.2907]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows.

"Should dead players be punished for not wp?"

"Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?"

This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one.ONE

Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute.

You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options.

If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been:

"Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?"

With answer choices being:

• Yes
• Depends (elaborate in comment)
• No

Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins.

You might not have

meant

for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion.

Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

11111. @Leo G.4501 said:

       @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

       @Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll.

       Because the options are BAD. They are not clear opposite choices that are mutually exclusive.
       Choice 1: People should WPChoice 2: People should not HAVE to WP.
       So here I am. I believe people SHOULD waypoint in reasonable circumstances, but people should not HAVE to waypoint. Which option do I choose?
       But how many times have you tried to convince the OP that his options are bad, ignoring all other goals of the questioning? Obviously the goal of the poll is to polarize the choice. If you don't agree with it, you're free to state so and move along. Adamantly pursuing a line of reasoning contrary to the discussion's purpose is boarderline derailing. That's all I'm saying.

The goal, in my opinion, is about polarizing players moreso than the choices. I am not sure that derailing that sort of effort is all that terrible.

[Shikigami.4013]

@sephiroth.4217 said:I believe in rezzing the downs, you know, helping my fellow gamer out.

I think it's elitism or autism not too.

a) You are not "helping him out", you are doing the work for him (getting him into the fight again) that he could easily have done himself by waypointing and running back. Instead of helping anyone, you choose to do his work while at the same time not doing yours anymore. "Helping" is when you get a downed player up by assisting him to rally.b) Your "fellow gamers" are not only those who lie dead on the floor and refuse to rejoin the fight be waypointing and running back, your fellow gamers are also those who are fighting. You remove yourself from the fight, and by that you leave all those other "fellow gamers" alone by not participating/helping anymore while instead you sit there ressing a lazy bum.c) This has nothing to do with elitism as it requires no skill, good equipment or anything else that only an "elite" would have, all it takes is to use a waypoint and run. Every GW2 player can do this.d) I am not even sure how anyone would use the word autism in this context but it seems rude and totally inappropriate.

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

Like a lot of people have mentioned in the thread, context does matter. However, for most cases where I'd ever need to rez full-dead players, I'd prefer them to WP. This is under the assumption that I'm doing a complicated meta like the 3 gatekeepers phase of DS where trying to rez people will legitimately wipe the rest of the squad. However, picking up one or two full-dead people on the way there for the events prior isn't going to be that big of a deal. I always make sure to try and rez downed if I don't think I'll kill myself doing so.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I doubt very much it matters all that much. If there are so many dead that the event fails, the people failing to WP are unlikely to have been the cause of the failure. More likely, it's people failing to execute on the mechanics of the event, something that can be (nearly always) prevented by folks taking time to explain how things work and/or reminding people what skills really help.

I agree with everyone that dead should WP, that the game should be changed so it doesn't scale up the event if they don't. But all the same, I think we can do better if more of us took a little time to help those who don't know how the event works (and despite the age of some events, there are always people new to it and always folks who misunderstand it).

[Chamelion.9536]

GW2 rewards for team effort. Refusing to help those who are downed/dead, isn't a 'team effort'. However, on the flip side, each event and situation is different and I follow a simple formula... I'll rez anyone I can, so long as I feel safe doing so.... If I expect to die in the progress, sorry, you're on your own. But I always look to see if there's someone downed in battle... after all, we're all trying to work towards defeating the event, right? Now, if the WP is around the corner and you're completely dead, please WP. If you're downed, it's a 50/50 on what event there is. I also look at how much time is left in the event... down to the last 1-2 minutes and the it's a matter of keeping up DPS, I won't rez, nor will I expect to be rezzed. Also, as I play the most "beloved" class in the game, Reaper Necro ;), I will sometimes use my Reaper mode (second life pool) to help a downed player or two that may be under the boss and in no way able to be saved otherwise.

Bottom line; Which ever way serves the team best is what I expect out of everyone... if I can rez you, I will! If it's quicker, safer to WP, do so.

So I won't vote on either of the choices.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all). But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

[Zacchary.6183]

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all). But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

Okay... then who is it biased towards?

[Westenev.5289]

I think a person should wp upon death, if it isn't disadvantageous for them to do so. And no, I don't consider the 30 second run back to the boss as disadvantageous – and no, they aren’t really missing anything by doing so. Dead people make it difficult to res downed players durring large events, which just adds to the body count.

That being said, I think it should be left up to the individual whether or not they want to WP. Some places and fights have limited access, and can make rewards difficult to collect if you WP (ie. vinewrath). If you're asking "res plz" at Tequatl or Svanir Chief however, you'll receive little in the way of compassion from me.

[Seera.5916]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all). But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

Okay... then who is it biased towards?

His last sentence in his post says who it is biased towards (I have bolded the sentence):

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all).

But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

People don't tend to like absolutes when it comes to optional things. Look at all of the complaints about having to do WvW to get the Gift of Battle. Look at all of the complaints about having to do raids to get legendary armor. Look at all of the people who complain about having to work.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Seera.5916 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all). But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

Okay... then who is it biased towards?

His last sentence in his post says who it is biased towards (I have bolded the sentence):

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all).

But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

People don't tend to like absolutes when it comes to optional things. Look at all of the complaints about having to do WvW to get the Gift of Battle. Look at all of the complaints about having to do raids to get legendary armor. Look at all of the people who complain about having to work.

There are two problems with that perception though, we are arguing semantics when it could simply be taken at face value.

By definition, "should" in this context is used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's action. (Google search "should definition") Obligation implies a major moral standing behind the statement. But players do what they want regardless and so it means nothing in the end. The game does not force you to waypoint on dead nor are there any rules that dictate you should waypoint on dead during an event. So this is not an absolute in any sense. If I put "have" in front of "should" in the first option, at that point it could be read as an absolute because it could imply that players who select it want a forced waypoint solution (ie Players should HAVE to waypoint if they die during an event.). That is not what this poll is or ever will be about.

Now the second option IS an absolute, but only as a counter the first one. Notice how I did not say "if they die" and added "have" on the second one. That was done on purpose. "should NOT have to waypoint", with a resounding capitalized NOT, clearly and directly contradicts the first statement. "have" implying lack of choice. Leaving out "if they die" broadens the statement beyond the original discussion of waypoint on dead.

If there is any bias, it is in the second option. It an absolute with a much broader scope compared to the first option which implies a highly recommended preference on a specific topic. I even made it simple for players to choose on the original post.

So I have to ask, are you two sure you are not just basing this bias off the current results?

[Zacchary.6183]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@Zacchary.6183 said:So I have to ask, are you two sure you are not just basing this bias off the current results?

Because the options are between Using a WP and not using a WP during an event. If you're defeated, the first thing that anyone will think of is to use the waypoint.It's like asking in any sport, you should try to score in this opportune position, or you don't have to try to score this opportune position. It's just pointless to ask.Not many are going to say, hmm well just incase of that.. one thing.. most people just say: "Yeah obviously go for it!"

[Zacchary.6183]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

Nah coz your poll is bad and doesn't give questions which can answer the question you want. Ive tried to show you but u are stubborn and wont admit it so meh

[Spurnshadow.3678]

This wouldn't be that big of a deal if enemy health didn't scale with dead players.

[Zacchary.6183]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

Nah coz your poll is bad and doesn't give questions which can answer the question you want. Ive tried to show you but u are stubborn and wont admit it so meh

Your opinion means nothing to me. If my poll offended you in anyway, you are free to make your own.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

Nah coz your poll is bad and doesn't give questions which can answer the question you want. Ive tried to show you but u are stubborn and wont admit it so meh

Your opinion means nothing to me. If my poll offended you in anyway, you are free to make your own.

Its not an opinion its a fact. If you are going to do research then you have to make sure your data collection method is valid or fact criticism. Im not offended. I dont care about it enough to get offended. Everyone knows with or without a poll that people prefer you to wp over lying dead on the floor. Just you being stubborn over a poll which is clearly wrong and then using it to back up your opinion in furture discussions is misleading for the playerbase and anet and is honestly pointless to do.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll.

Because the options are BAD. They are not clear opposite choices that are mutually exclusive.

Choice 1: People should WPChoice 2: People should not HAVE to WP.

So here I am. I believe people SHOULD waypoint in reasonable circumstances, but people should not HAVE to waypoint. Which option do I choose?

But how many times have you tried to convince the OP that his options are bad, ignoring all other goals of the questioning? Obviously the goal of the poll is to polarize the choice. If you don't agree with it, you're free to state so and move along. Adamantly pursuing a line of reasoning contrary to the discussion's purpose is boarderline derailing. That's all I'm saying.

Only once. That was my first post in this thread. I didn't agree, I stated so and moved along, as you suggested. Apparently you're the one who can't.

[Seera.5916]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all). But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

Okay... then who is it biased towards?

His last sentence in his post says who it is biased towards (I have bolded the sentence):

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said.

So, we're going to disregard that it might be better to handle each case individually in search for the nuclear catch all solution. Fantastic. (Disregarding the whole can of worms with Polls where the maker have an agenda instead of finding objective distribution.)

I just treated the two options as "have to waypoint" and "don't have to waypoint", because it depends on the situation (thus They don't have to, although it's more a NO this poll is not good at all).

But the poll like this is heavily biased to "you should waypoint" because that's just obvious in moments where it matters.

People don't tend to like absolutes when it comes to optional things. Look at all of the complaints about having to do WvW to get the Gift of Battle. Look at all of the complaints about having to do raids to get legendary armor. Look at all of the people who complain about having to work.

There are two problems with that perception though, we are arguing semantics when it could simply be taken at face value.

By definition, "should" in this context is used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's action. (Google search "should definition") Obligation implies a major moral standing behind the statement. But players do what they want regardless and so it means nothing in the end. The game does not force you to waypoint on dead nor are there any rules that dictate you should waypoint on dead during an event. So this is not an absolute in any sense. If I put "have" in front of "should" in the first option, at that point it could be read as an absolute because it could imply that players who select it want a forced waypoint solution (ie Players should HAVE to waypoint if they die during an event.). That is not what this poll is or ever will be about.

Now the second option IS an absolute, but only as a counter the first one. Notice how I did not say "if they die" and added "have" on the second one. That was done on purpose. "should NOT have to waypoint", with a resounding capitalized NOT, clearly and directly contradicts the first statement. "have" implying lack of choice. Leaving out "if they die" broadens the statement beyond the original discussion of waypoint on dead.

If there is any bias, it is in the second option. It an absolute with a much broader scope compared to the first option which implies a highly recommended preference on a specific topic. I even made it simple for players to choose on the original post.

So I have to ask, are you two sure you are not just basing this bias off the current results?

Haven't looked at the results and I haven't voted. Because the poll is badly worded and has bias in it, any results in it will not be in any way meaningful to the purpose you're trying to do. Since your sample size is already too small to really be a good indication of what the player base wants (margin of error will be too high), you have to be extra careful to make sure your poll options don't skew results more than they already will be.

It's also biased because both options say THE SAME THING. Your results will always give you the same answer. That players should waypoint, but they don't have to. Since the first does not have the phrase "have to" it literally states that they do not have to waypoint. Which is exactly what the second option says.

If you're trying to decide if something should be done by ANet about it, then you need to include those who find it situational. Because the solution will affect that group. Because the solution chosen may be different if one takes that group into account.

[Ellecthan.8170]

waypoint if the event far away from the end

[Zacchary.6183]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

Nah coz your poll is bad and doesn't give questions which can answer the question you want. Ive tried to show you but u are stubborn and wont admit it so meh

Your opinion means nothing to me. If my poll offended you in anyway, you are free to make your own.

Its not an opinion its a fact. If you are going to do research then you have to make sure your data collection method is valid or fact criticism. Im not offended. I dont care about it enough to get offended. Everyone knows with or without a poll that people prefer you to wp over lying dead on the floor. Just you being stubborn over

a poll which is clearly wrong

and then using it to back up your opinion in furture discussions is misleading for the playerbase and anet and is honestly pointless to do.

That is subjective and not based on fact in any way. Hence your opinion.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that.

But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along.

Well OP said he was going to base further debate and even 'solutions' on the answers to this poll so if the answers are wrong thats a problem.

Also it was 7am and I couldnt sleep so was bored and OP was refusing to admit he was wrong so trying to change his mind was something to do.

I can't change the polls. So deal with it.

Fine then just dont use this poll as evidence for any further discussion.

Because I didn't put a neutral answer? This isn't a most popular opinion contest. Plenty of people who chose Waypoint when Dead in this poll chose indifferent in the other poll, which is something I already knew was going to happen. What does that tell you? It means that waypointing when dead is a preference. A highly recommended preference by a majority. Despite what you think, my poll has already achieved it's goal. I am just waiting for the votes to slow.

Nah coz your poll is bad and doesn't give questions which can answer the question you want. Ive tried to show you but u are stubborn and wont admit it so meh

Your opinion means nothing to me. If my poll offended you in anyway, you are free to make your own.

Its not an opinion its a fact. If you are going to do research then you have to make sure your data collection method is valid or fact criticism. Im not offended. I dont care about it enough to get offended. Everyone knows with or without a poll that people prefer you to wp over lying dead on the floor. Just you being stubborn over

a poll which is clearly wrong

and then using it to back up your opinion in furture discussions is misleading for the playerbase and anet and is honestly pointless to do.

That is subjective and not based on fact in any way. Hence your opinion.

Nah. Validity is a fundemental part of science and research. Its not opinion. It can be tested by scientific method and has entire fields dedicated to it. Your poll has 0 validity so its wrong. Thats a fact. Im done arguing with you.

If you want to be so offended by me criticising it that you are going to be stubborn and argue with not just me but multiple people telling you over and over why its wrong then thats your problem. You are obviously not suited to do research.