Burial.1958 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said: Thief Hide in Shadows: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only. Blinding Powder: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds in PvP only. Shadow's Rejuvenation: Reduced base heal from 219 to 158 in PvP only. Smoke Screen: Reduced field duration from 7 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only. The Shadow Arts trait line is a common topic of discussion when it comes to thief balance. We’ve been having some conversations internally about common feedback topics like Hidden Thief and Meld with Shadows, but those discussions are still ongoing and for now we’ve bumped up the cooldown on some of the stealth-granting deception skills. Smoke Screen is also getting a duration reduction rather than a cooldown increase as 7 seconds is a bit longer than we like to see on a one-second pulse blind field. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morena.9312 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 😞 So because SA is to strong they nerfed literally every Stealth Class Skill. Makes sense. I mean Hide in Shadows why +10 Sec? Blinding Powder why? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 I agree with the Smokescreen nerf, even if there were better ways to do it. I have no issue with the Rejuvenation nerf, either, since the heal was deceptively powerful on top of very solid utility. I don't see the reasoning behind gutting Hide in Shadows and Blinding Powder w/o resorting to SA, though. Thought the goal was to get thieves to move away from SA, not reinforce their reliance on it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk.7095 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Does ANET know what the word "Balance" means? Like seriously. How is systematically driving people into SA only gameplay by removing other options then going after the last remaining corner you've driven everyone into without providing ANY alternatives balance? I'm no dev, but I would assume a major tenant of any serious balance effort would be to provide an incentive to try other things. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrForz.1953 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Hm, I can't tell if I'm surprised or not about the changes missing the mark, like the rest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxx.6203 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 SA isn't an issue itself, stealth is. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nawrotex.9521 said: SA isn't an issue itself, stealth is. The actual issue are the people who think they deserve a free kill. Because even if anet took away stealth, players would still find something to complain about. 16 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burial.1958 Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 39 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said: The actual issue are the people who think they deserve a free kill. Because even if anet took away stealth, players would still find something to complain about. Peoples complained even about Vault from staff in the Permastealth Thread. They will never stop with it. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) If 10s of cooldown and 50ish heal is enough to make you quit playing SA thief then I question your judgment. PvP players always are so quick to jump on Arenanet's throat for minor changes. The real issue is acro hasn't been redone since Feb 2020 IMO. Edited February 19, 2022 by Infusion.7149 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said: why I don't play PvP anymore. Enjoy your dead game mode Anet. I, too, quit PvP a while (months) back. Best decision I ever made with this game. Edited February 19, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said: If 10s of cooldown and 50ish heal is enough to make you quit playing SA thief then I question your judgment. PvP players always are so quick to jump on Arenanet's throat for minor changes. On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have people claiming minor changes w/o much of an understanding. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithril Ashwalker.6230 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 19 minutes ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said: This literally does not surprise me at all. ArenaNet has always been trash at balance. Literally the absolute worst devs in the entire MMO industry at game balance. Bar none. Once again, instead of addressing the actually kittening issues and fixing things that are under performing or out right broken (Acrobatics, Scorpion Wire, pathing issues), they take the laziest possible approach as usual. Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf. I have absolutely no faith in the Balance team of this game. None. Crap like this, right here, is why I don't play PvP anymore. Enjoy your dead game mode Anet. you have to understand there is a EoD news patch on release yes? what they cant address are things that may influence metas prior to EoD release AND potentially have an influence on the market...people will buildcraft already and it can screw a bunch of things up. Rest assured there will probably be huge buffs/changes for the GOOD come EoD patch on the 28th. Have faith fam!...dont forget specter gets alac brother! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT.7192 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said: If 10s of cooldown and 50ish heal is enough to make you quit playing SA thief then I question your judgment. PvP players always are so quick to jump on Arenanet's throat for minor changes. The real issue is acro hasn't been redone since Feb 2020 IMO. Hide in shadows going from 30s to 40s is not a minor change. Question judgements all you want, it's been 9 years of this, people are getting tired of these "minor changes" Edited February 19, 2022 by BobbyT.7192 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 57 minutes ago, BobbyT.7192 said: Heal in shadows going from 30s to 40s is not a minor change. Question judgements all you want, it's been 9 years of this, people are getting tired of these "minor changes" I'm not much of a Thief player (haven't played it seriously since HoT era), but IMO, increasing the cooldown of a heal to beyond 30 seconds was a line that shouldn't be crossed. The heal skill has always been something unique to GW2 that sets it apart from most other MMMORPGs, and having it up frequently enough to sustain in a fight is important. 30s has always seemed like the hard cap for heal cooldown length, and although 40s is just 10 seconds more, it still is a significant nerf and the change feels like it is breaking a core philosophy of the game. I am of course making assumptions on ANet's part, but the change just really doesn't sit well with me. A heal shouldn't require a trait in order for it to be used, and although I could be wrong, it's hard for me to see anyone take it without the trait now. Which I find really unfortunate. Limiting choice is a lazy way of balancing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 It's sPvP...so I expect a bunch of people will just ignore this since it's not exactly a game mode known for high population. But really this seems like a "do something" effort that is a poor substitute for an actual balance pass with the full balance team. Like, balancing SA isn't hard when the biggest outlier is the same grandmaster trait for the last 9 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said: It's sPvP...so I expect a bunch of people will just ignore this since it's not exactly a game mode known for high population. But really this seems like a "do something" effort that is a poor substitute for an actual balance pass with the full balance team. Like, balancing SA isn't hard when the biggest outlier is the same grandmaster trait for the last 9 years. Actually, the first thing this brought to my mind was that there's no way something similar isn't coming for WvW thieves.There's reason to be reasonably worried. Edited February 19, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 50 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said: Actually, the first thing this brought to my mind was that there's no way something similar isn't coming for WvW thieves.There's reason to be reasonably worried. True, but until we get to that point it's hard to get enough people making complaints to get noticed. For now all we can say is that several of the changes missed the mark and that much depends on whatever the full balance team considers important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said: True, but until we get to that point it's hard to get enough people making complaints to get noticed. For now all we can say is that several of the changes missed the mark and that much depends on whatever the full balance team considers important. Judging by the recently announced changes to both PvE and PvP content, it's safe to say the balance and dev teams are prepared to toss more seasoned players under the bus in order to attract "fresh blood". It is extremely unlikely thief will see ANY buffs, outside maybe specter. This is the sacrificial lamb. A part of it, anyways. Edited February 19, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) Keep in mind the heal cooldown is still going to be ~25sec on Shadow Arts Spectre (due to Alacrity). Yes, they nerfed Core again to make room for the Elite specs, but did anyone expect otherwise? Its always been their balancing strategy, for better or worse. Edited February 19, 2022 by Hannelore.8153 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 8 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said: Thought the goal was to get thieves to move away from SA, not reinforce their reliance on it. Now where did you get that from? Some players wanted that but the devs. only seem to care about the "what", not the "why" or the solutions people have in mind even if there actually is a common consensus within the feedback people provide for a certain topic. Unfortunately A-Net almost never states what their actual goal is which is why many of their changes tend to come of as aimless and that they "don't know what they are doing" (and that is already the positive, borderline naive, way of interpreting their actions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frareanselm.1925 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 10 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said: I, too, quit PvP a while (months) back. Best decision I ever made with this game. Where you obtain your source of fun now? Because the satisfaction of defeating another real player in pvp is not the same as killing npcs in pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT.7192 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said: Keep in mind the heal cooldown is still going to be ~25sec on Shadow Arts Spectre (due to Alacrity). Yes, they nerfed Core again to make room for the Elite specs, but did anyone expect otherwise? Its always been their balancing strategy, for better or worse. Getting high up time on alacrity means a heavy investment in concentration gear, (currently not available in pvp), a trait that is more design for support, and like 3-4 wells (which the heal would be one of them anyways). Your not roaming, decapping, or +1ing with that kind of build. Alacrity should not be remotely considered for this nerf. Edited February 19, 2022 by BobbyT.7192 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPUlisses.8756 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 40 sec for hide in shadows is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 The problem is they will nerf these cooldowns "for now", then when they finish their discussion about meld with shadows and hidden thief they will nerf those as well, meaning their the indecision will result in a double nerf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 This is likely to push me into SA instead of away from it. Why? It's simple: * Hide in Shadows without SA: 40 seconds, 3 sec stealth. Long wait time/cast for a little bit of stealth. * Hide in Shadows *with* SA: 40 seconds, 5.5 sec stealth. Long wait time/cast for a decent amount of stealth. * Hide in Shadows with SA + Hidden Thief: now it's 32 seconds for 5.5 sec stealth. So all that's doing is kinda forcing you out of Shadow's Embrace. On top of that, if I decide Hide in Shadows is overnerfed, SA also lets me get a ton of extra value out of both Withdraw and Channeled Vigor (basically using either as a non-SA thief might use Hide in Shadows). The one place I'm likely to stop using Hide in Shadows is my Deadly Arts build. 😕 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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