No Vindicator Changes from Beta 4 to EoD Release???

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Can't run the numbers specifically right this second, but it looks like there are NO changes between Beta 4 and today's release.  All the traits/skills/weapon skills look like they have exactly the same functionality/numbers as before.

This is extremely disappointing Anet.  I'm sad that none of the feedback from Beta 4 was put into place and that instead you guys chose to focus on nerfing core/etc. across the board for all professions instead of trying to fix some of the issues Vindicator STILL has. 

Can others confirm that there are in fact no changes made to Vindicator from last beta until now?

Edited February 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Obtena.7952]

I don't see any changes. I don't see why anyone would have expected any either. Anet never indicated that the time between Beta 4 and Release was going to incorporate any more player feedback. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Raknar.4735]

GS autos hit in a wider arc now, i think.

[Kidel.2057]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see any changes. I don't see why anyone would have expected any either. Anet never indicated that the time between Beta 4 and Release was going to incorporate any more player feedback. 

Never intended to change anything between "BETA" 4 and "RELEASE", sure. Why did we even think something so preposterous. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Kidel.2057

[Scoobaniec.9561]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see any changes. I don't see why anyone would have expected any either. Anet never indicated that the time between Beta 4 and Release was going to incorporate any more player feedback. 

Then what was the purpose of beta? What is beta in itself according to u? What was the point of ppl wasting their time to give feedback nobody cared about?

[otto.5684]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see any changes. I don't see why anyone would have expected any either. Anet never indicated that the time between Beta 4 and Release was going to incorporate any more player feedback. 

It was a beta. Anet clearly indicated it as such. I do not expect that Anet will incorporate some or all of the players feedback. However, I do expect a complete a product. This ain’t it…

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

It was a beta. Anet clearly indicated it as such. I do not expect that Anet will incorporate some or all of the players feedback. However, I do expect a complete a product. This ain’t it…

Well, I guess that's a matter of opinion then because I don't see what you would refer to is 'incomplete' here. 

[Obtena.7952]

54 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Then what was the purpose of beta? What is beta in itself according to u? What was the point of ppl wasting their time to give feedback nobody cared about?

Hold on ... Anet DID consider player feedback make changes to the specs after the first beta test as they SAID THEY WOULD ... so what are you REALLY asking me here? Again ... Anet did NOT indicate that they were going to implement player feedback after Beta 4 ...so if you expected that, that's just weird. 

 

See here is the problem ... it's not that Anet isn't listening ... it's that they simply aren't going to make the changes you want. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Gwaihir.1745]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Hold on ... Anet DID consider player feedback make changes to the specs after the first beta test as they SAID THEY WOULD ... so what are you REALLY asking me here? Again ... Anet did NOT indicate that they were going to implement player feedback after Beta 4 ...so if you expected that, that's just weird. 

 

See here is the problem ... it's not that Anet isn't listening ... it's that they simply aren't going to make the changes you want. 

 

Please work on your post formatting that is brutal to try and read.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

GS autos are better.

Reavers rage is a CC

Alliance tactics is instant cast ( This is a MUCH bigger improvement than most people realize )

People love to whine.

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

2 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

GS autos are better.

Reavers rage is a CC

Alliance tactics is instant cast ( This is a MUCH bigger improvement than most people realize )

People love to whine.

 

Reaver's Rage was a CC in Beta 4.  But thank you for the other additions that's quite helpful

Honestly upset that Phantom's Onslaught wasn't fixed or tooltip updated though

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Gwaihir.1745 said:

 

Please work on your post formatting that is brutal to try and read.

What ... ever ... do ... you ... mean ... you ... think ... my ... post ... formatting ... is ... b...r...u...t...a...l?

The fact is that people are expecting something that Anet didn't say they were going to do. They let us feedback in Beta 1, they listened, they made changes to that feedback and we tested in Beta 4. That's ALL they told us. No one should have expected changes after beta 4, even though it's Anet's prerogative to make whatever changes they want. What's REALLY happening is that people are simply unhappy they didn't get the changes THEY wanted. 

[GrayHawk.7560]

The flow feels decent not sure what it is they've sped up to make it feel that way but it does even Viktor's kitten urn ce in clutch a couple of times.  The biggest "issue" I ran into was not finding stats that suited a full hybrid style that could take advantage of the whole kit.  

 

I essentially button spammed Alliance in group events and very rarely ran into energy or endurance issues.  The skills cooldowns on Alliance are so negligible that they don't feel like they're there at all.  Even the sustain felt decent (albeit more active than before).  Battle scars heals less sure but Vindi shits out so much Vuln I didn't even feel it.  The kit now has 3 heal skills plus Viktor's ashes and the Vindi heals basically have no meaningful downtime.  Typing on my phone with 3 hou4s sleep so don't feel like going through every skill but the class really didn't feel bad to play in my opinion at least.

 

As for the post beta changes they said they will make changes in the future not by release. There are definitely some minor tweaks across the board but it's to numbers not mechanics (save for the "bug" fix).  Major changes will probably happen in the next big balance patch.

[Ausar.9542]

9 hours ago, Kidel.2057 said:

Never intended to change anything between "BETA" 4 and "RELEASE", sure. Why did we even think something so preposterous. 

modern MMO Marketing term. Beta means Demo. 

[Drlightningbolt.1754]

They made it worse does that count

[Tiberius.3802]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:35 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see any changes. I don't see why anyone would have expected any either. Anet never indicated that the time between Beta 4 and Release was going to incorporate any more player feedback. 

Good grief, do any of you get tired over the insane hoops you jump through to defend ANY objectively bad decision by Anet? It was a BETA - meaning a phase purposely created to TEST FEATURES on and GATHER FEEDBACK from. What do you think that means exactly?

 

The excuse you farted out on the spot would've been hilarious if you weren't meaning for it to be taken seriously...

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tiberius.3802

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, Tiberius.3802 said:

Good grief, do any of you get tired over the insane hoops you jump through to defend ANY objectively bad decision by Anet? It was a BETA - meaning a phase purposely created to TEST FEATURES on and GATHER FEEDBACK from. What do you think that means exactly?

I'm not defending a decision so ?

It means what Anet said it means ... and they did that. Nothing Anet said should have given anyone the impression they were going to make anymore massive changes after Beta 4 like they did Beta 1. You know how I know that? Because the changes they made after Beta 4 that we see in Release aren't nearly as significant as the ones after Beta 1. 

Again ... the "OMG, Anet didn't listen to us after Beta 4" ... is just really a complaint that most of the changes Anet were willing to make based on player feedback were already done. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 2/28/2022 at 5:22 PM, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Then what was the purpose of beta? What is beta in itself according to u? What was the point of ppl wasting their time to give feedback nobody cared about?

Marketing.  Their expansion sales have plummeted with every release and the only thing that sold EoD was the elite specs.

If anyone had any delusions about ANet's professions team, you've just been playing the right builds on the right specs for the past several years.

[SWLDguitar.5746]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:46 PM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Marketing.  Their expansion sales have plummeted with every release and the only thing that sold EoD was the elite specs.

If anyone had any delusions about ANet's professions team, you've just been playing the right builds on the right specs for the past several years.

According to Google, Arena Net is a company of 400 employees.  Compare to Blizzard having 9,500.  That to me is a small business.  They are literally 5% the size of one of their biggest competitors. 

 

I'd say lay off them.  Launching is a big ordeal, balancing is not.  The specs are fun, worry about the rest later.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

12 minutes ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

According to Google, Arena Net is a company of 400 employees.  Compare to Blizzard having 9,500.  That to me is a small business.  They are literally 5% the size of one of their biggest competitors. 

 

I'd say lay off them.  Launching is a big ordeal, balancing is not.  The specs are fun, worry about the rest later.

Are u implying theres 9500 ppl working on WoW? Bc i believe theres about ~300 ppl working on it so technically smaller team than Anet.

[SWLDguitar.5746]

16 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Are u implying theres 9500 ppl working on WoW? Bc i believe theres about ~300 ppl working on it so technically smaller team than Anet.

I didn't imply anything, just man power.

Are you implying that 400 people are working on development?  Pretty sure my GM friend is 1 of the 400.  So 399 devs 🤣

[DeceiverX.8361]

5 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

According to Google, Arena Net is a company of 400 employees.  Compare to Blizzard having 9,500.  That to me is a small business.  They are literally 5% the size of one of their biggest competitors. 

 

I'd say lay off them.  Launching is a big ordeal, balancing is not.  The specs are fun, worry about the rest later.

It's why I absolutely never complain about new content release rates, encounters, or major asset development.  Those take a bulk amount of manpower from programmers to designers to writers to voice actors to various forms of artists to involvement on various levels from leadership and project management to 3d modeling to animation rigging to accessibility to balance and QA, and all the way to analysis on the in-game economy.  HUGE amounts of work goes into creating new content that people always scream about getting MORE of.

Honestly, I don't give a kitten about more content.  This is an MMO.  The nature of its replay-ability comes from engaging with existing content in different ways.  If I only cared about an epic, cinema-style experience, I'd stick to single-player.  There's often more to explore, more nuanced and better-written stories, better graphical displays, and generally a higher-level of finish because the game only has to sustain a few dozen hours of great enjoyment for the player to be considered great and the devs can cash out.

 

My problem with ANET is that numerical balance/trait design and core profession gameplay, restricted more or less to working in the game engine and some animations in the event of a total rework of a skill, requires significantly less work/wide skillsets and is an absolute cornerstone purpose of playing a game online for replay-ability - and is THE entire purpose of the competitive modes for replay-ability.  Asset and animation recycling is often not even that big of a deal, as we saw with various post-core Elite spec weapons and skills.  And yet, it's been overtly neglected for closing on 8 years.  Issues plaguing the game for nearly a decade have not gone fixed.  We can't even blame localization issues or translation problems or lack of publisher ability to force change like imported games do.

It doesn't matter how many new systems and raids and new currencies and skins you add to the game - if the gameplay itself sucks, the game will decline and decline quickly, because there's no point in joining a community if you're not having fun.  It's why the WoW-style grind and L2 clones are over and done in the Western market; it's a formula for failure because our players care more about gameplay than anything else.

GW2 is lauded in how good its gameplay feels and has held up on the technical level, but just because gameplay is buttery-smooth doesn't mean it's going to be fun or balanced.  It doesn't mean your experience playing the game will intrinsically be any good if your skills are weak or the community rejects everything that isn't a very specific way of playing because it's definitively weaker with no recourse.

I criticize ANet because if they were any other studio, with any other product that didn't completely and totally smash the industry wide open with its game release the way GW2 did, running on a perfect tech miracle that is just how good the core game and its core gameplay smoothness is, they'd be a dead studio with 0 employees rather than 400.

I'd expect negative sales figures to continue despite the expansion; I'd go as far as saying it might even be lower in Q1/Q2 2022 despite having just launched an expansion, because the Q4 2021 numbers were artificially-inflated from pre-purchases to make the green line go up, and historically, every expansion this game has had in the past has been horrible for their financials.

For reference, so far I've not been wrong about sales timetables since HoT launched.  Go find the way-back-machine posts from 2015 where I precisely project the fall in subsequent months with the exodus of the PvP/WvW communities from a very similar set of blunders.

Edited March 3, 2022 by DeceiverX.8361