Meta + Strike Missions = Turtle. No thank you.

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, Excursion.9752 said:

All you really have to do it is one time

Until the next time something else comes around which might be sooner rather than later as I can definitely see them locking the new elder dragon variants behind other SMs.

3 hours ago, Excursion.9752 said:

and that is not horrible in my book

Sure, if you have your raid squad ready then I guess it's "not horrible" but pugging this content can lead to absolutely terrible experiences. Keep in mind that according to the devs own words SMs are not even supposed to be that difficult (that's what the CMs are going to be there for) yet some of the ones we got are easily on the same level as something you find in high tier Fractals except with extremely bloated HP pools on top of it (the SM in question takes experienced groups about 10 min to clear which would be the equivalent of your average Fractal 100 CM group taking 10 min to clear 42). A group that only consists of your average casual players is bound to have a horrible time which is part of why this thread here even exists.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Derkojote.1957]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:12 AM, Grishnaakh.2143 said:

Just want to say that the story and locations for EoD are fantastic, love them, but requiring, for the moment, to run the Meta then Strike Mission to unlock the Siege Turtle really just turns me off to the rest of the game at this point.

Can't fault you there. Fact, most casual players are Working folks and some of us are handicapped or playing on PCs that are not top of the line. Many of us play to relax and spend time with family and friends in a fun environment and are not in big guilds with raid party mentality. Yet, We Paid For content that we now cannot have because we don't play to that extreme. Mighty close to Theft. Misrepresenting how we were going to get the turtle. Locking it behind content many are not able to do because either we can't or simply don't have the time to give to it. A-Net is dividing what till now was easily the closest community of any MMO.

[Sandie.1964]

I was soo excited when they came out with this. The maps, the graphics. Taxi! Love it! Everything you have said applies to me on strike missions. I cant sit for 2 hours at a time, I cannot get on discord as it will disturb the rest of the house. I tried fractals back in the day. I worked my way up, crafted infusions, got the right armor and accessories. Joined a group and had never seen that map. Played a bit, died a bit,  was at the very end boss and was kicked from the group. The reason, "I was not very good and needed to practice more before I joined the higher groups" I haven't done a higher level fractal since. I have played this game for 17,000 hours since Beta and now I wont be playing past this expansion. I see no value in spending more for game content that I cant do and the thought stresses me out too much to even imagine trying.

[yoni.7015]

5 hours ago, Derkojote.1957 said:

Can't fault you there. Fact, most casual players are Working folks and some of us are handicapped or playing on PCs that are not top of the line. Many of us play to relax and spend time with family and friends in a fun environment and are not in big guilds with raid party mentality. Yet, We Paid For content that we now cannot have because we don't play to that extreme. Mighty close to Theft. Misrepresenting how we were going to get the turtle. Locking it behind content many are not able to do because either we can't or simply don't have the time to give to it. A-Net is dividing what till now was easily the closest community of any MMO.

So players that do strike missions don’t have jobs? I don’t think that’s true. I have a job and I am working on my PhD, but still I do strike missions. 

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

So players that do strike missions don’t have jobs? I don’t think that’s true. I have a job and I am working on my PhD, but still I do strike missions. 

Not everyone needs the same time to adjust to game mechanics. When i was learning (and then teaching) raids, i have noticed that there are people that would learn the class/build in a day, and "get" an encounter after an explanation and one-two tries. And there were those that needed hours after hours after hours of much greater (and honest) effort and even then ended up at a slightly lower place. And frequently those in the first group could not really understand why the others have any issue - after all, it was so easy for them, they didn' really need to put any effort into it, and automatically assumed it would be the same for everyone else. Except it wasn't.

And guess which ones are far more common. Hint: not the former kind.

You having enough time off work to spare on this type of content does not mean everyone else does.

[yoni.7015]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not everyone needs the same time to adjust to game mechanics. When i was learning (and then teaching) raids, i have noticed that there are people that would learn the class/build in a day, and "get" an encounter after an explanation and one-two tries. And there were those that needed hours after hours after hours of much greater (and honest) effort and even then ended up at a slightly lower place. And frequently those in the first group could not really understand why the others have any issue - after all, it was so easy for them, they didn' really need to put any effort into it, and automatically assumed it would be the same for everyone else. Except it wasn't.

And guess which ones are far more common. Hint: not the former kind.

You having enough time off work to spare on this type of content does not mean everyone else does.

The quote was “most casual players are Working folks”, that implies that players who would not define themselves as casual don’t have jobs. I would say most players are working folks. What is this kind of discussion to constantly try to make the other side look bad? 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[yoni.7015]

To all the confused people here: maybe if you weren’t so confused you could do the strike mission 🙂 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

The quote was “most casual players are Working folks”, that implies that players who would not define themselves as casual don’t have jobs. I would say most players are working folks. What is this kind of discussion to constantly try to make the other side look bad? 

No. That implied that having a job decreases your chances of being a hardcore player, due to the simple reason of having less time to dedicate to "preparing to have fun" in games, instead of just trying to have that fun without wasting that precious time on any preparations. Not to mention that a lot of working people do not play games just to have a second job.

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. That implied that having a job decreases your chances of being a hardcore player, due to the simple reason of having less time to dedicate to "preparing to have fun" in games, instead of just trying to have that fun without wasting that precious time on any preparations. Not to mention that a lot of working people do not play games just to have a second job.

Strike missions don’t really need preparation and are nothing like a second job. I had two jobs for a long period of time. That is very different.
You don’t have to be a hardcore player to do strike missions. The strike mission for the turtle was daily yesterday and I did it again with a pug group with several casual players in it. Did it without any problems. 
 And yes, it implied that. Why write that casual players have jobs and not the truth that most players have jobs? 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

So players that do strike missions don’t have jobs? I don’t think that’s true. I have a job and I am working on my PhD, but still I do strike missions. 

You are working on PhD yet, you can't think of other people and their ability to not being able to do certain task? Weird.

Or may be you are young. Once you hit age threshold, your thinking will change. Life experience is a thing 🙂

Game defining feature that was advertised shouldn't be locked behind anything other than story.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[yoni.7015]

7 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

You are working on PhD yet, you can't think of other people and their ability to not being able to do certain task? Weird.

Game defining feature that was advertised shouldn't be locked behind anything other than story.

If it were locked behind CM I could understand that some aren’t able to do that. But we are talking about the normal mode of the strike mission  

That’s your opinion about that. Others like me think that game defining features can be locked  behind another game defining feature. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

That’s your opinion about that. Others like me think that game defining features can be locked  behind another game defining feature. 

The moment strikes and other high-end content will really become "game defining features", instead of just being a side content aimed only for a minority that likes them, will be the moment i will stop playing this game.

[yoni.7015]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

 

Or may be you are young. Once you hit age threshold, your thinking will change. Life experience is a thing 🙂

I don’t know what my age has to do with it or is it just ageism? I wouldn’t discriminate you because of your age so don’t do it because of my age. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[yoni.7015]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The moment strikes and other high-end content will really become "game defining features", instead of just being a side content aimed only for a minority that likes them, will be the moment i will stop playing this game.

Strikes are not high end content, raids and challenge modes are. But okay, that’s a matter of definition. 
 

[chronometria.3708]

55 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Strikes are not high end content, raids and challenge modes are. But okay, that’s a matter of definition. 
 

Considering the gatekeeping going on with Strikes, they are being treated as high end content by a great many people who take part in them.

[aspirine.6852]

12 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Until the next time something else comes around which might be sooner rather than later as I can definitely see them locking the new elder dragon variants behind other SMs.

 

Oh now that you mention that, this is very very likely indeed.

[Excursion.9752]

15 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Until this will happen again, and they will realize that it was their participation in that content that supported Anet's mistaken idea that this is something that actually can persuade people to change their gameplay likes and dislikes.

I am less jaded about this specific case, and more about it being a process that keeps going forward, pushing that type of content more and more and more with every iteration.

I don't believe anet is trying to persuade anyone to start liking strikes. I believe they want people to try something new. Specifically new instanced content that they want people to see. And yes we will see in the future more things locked behind achievements that's a given. It wouldn't make much since to give us everything just for launching the game now would it. Just because we purchased the expansion does not entitle us to get everything it offers without work.

15 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Until the next time something else comes around which might be sooner rather than later as I can definitely see them locking the new elder dragon variants behind other SMs.

Sure, if you have your raid squad ready then I guess it's "not horrible" but pugging this content can lead to absolutely terrible experiences. Keep in mind that according to the devs own words SMs are not even supposed to be that difficult (that's what the CMs are going to be there for) yet some of the ones we got are easily on the same level as something you find in high tier Fractals except with extremely bloated HP pools on top of it (the SM in question takes experienced groups about 10 min to clear which would be the equivalent of your average Fractal 100 CM group taking 10 min to clear 42). A group that only consists of your average casual players is bound to have a horrible time which is part of why this thread here even exists.

Activities for the variants should be as legendary as the items itself. So I hope there is some difficulty to earning them all.  My hope is a tie in to dungeon paths but we will see.

Also you definitely quoted me leaving key parts out to fit your complaint.

"Just the other day I joined a LFG that read "I'm new and I want the Turtle Please Help!"

Joined them took 2 hours and on our successful run I had over 60+ resurrections with my Heal Scourge but we got the job done.

Regardless if you enjoy the content or not, or if you are not good, you have to perform the task and stop defeating yourself by putting barriers up in your mind. All you really have to do it is one time and that is not horrible in my book."

So was I in a full raid squad no, I was actually helping people out that generally would come here to complain about such content. I personally think its nice for people to see that this game isn't just about mashing keys and never evading.

I challenge people to step out of the box they have put themselves in and be more than what you think you are. Nothing worth earning is ever given to you.

[Astralporing.1957]

15 minutes ago, Excursion.9752 said:

I don't believe anet is trying to persuade anyone to start liking strikes. I believe they want people to try something new.

You're partially right. According to what they themselves said, they are trying to persuade people to start doing raids. Strikes are just a bridge that is supposed to lead there. Raids are hardly new, though, and they are something the overall community already considered and discarded.

Quote

I challenge people to step out of the box they have put themselves in and be more than what you think you are.

No. You are asking me to be less than what i am. To surrender my likes and dislikes to outside pressure. To agree to play by the rules that are designed to kill my remaining enjoyment in this game.

Quote

Nothing worth earning is ever given to you.

In a game, the way to earn the rewards must also be enjoyable. There's no point otherwise. And for me, strikes aren't.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[yoni.7015]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

 

In a game, the way to earn the rewards must also be enjoyable. There's no point otherwise. And for me, strikes aren't.

And that’s totally fine. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. But then you can’t expect to get the rewards. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Gibson.4036]

21 minutes ago, Excursion.9752 said:

Nothing worth earning is ever given to you.

That's kind of circular.

There are things that are worth having that are given. Not everything has to be some reward at the end of work. But that's getting philisophical and much bigger than this, which is an entertainment.

People love the PoF mounts. One was given for merely doing one story instance. The others took completing one heart and paying some gold for the saddle. I don't think I've ever seen anyone declaring that the raptor was such a shame because it didn't involve a collection to unlock it.

All of which is beside the point that disliking the way in which something is earned is not the same thing as asking it to just be given.

[Excursion.9752]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You're partially right. According to what they themselves said, they are trying to persuade people to start doing raids. Strikes are just a bridge that is supposed to lead there. Raids are hardly new, though, and they are something the overall community already considered and discarded.

That's not true because if that were true new raids would have been added to the xpac. Maybe in the future there will be more once the they believe the skill gap has been closed but I don't believe this will happen mostly because posts like these.

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. You are asking me to be less than what i am. To surrender my likes and dislikes to outside pressure. To agree to play by the rules that are designed to kill my remaining enjoyment in this game.

No one is making anyone do anything. If they don't want to do them, so be it then no turtle for them. No big deal. No body is owed a  griffon, skyscale, or turtle for no reason. The overall pessimism about your enjoyment tells me maybe its time you take a break from the game.

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In a game, the way to earn the rewards must also be enjoyable. There's no point otherwise. And for me, strikes aren't.

Who said that? There are things in this game that I found less than enjoyable but since I wanted the reward I did them.  Anets goal is to give people activities to do. You can't please everyone nor should you try to.

[Gibson.4036]

2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

And that’s totally fine. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. But then you can’t expect to get the rewards. 

But, as a customer, they are free to express to the developers that they don't like the choice ArenaNet made for how to get them.

Really, this response is pretty meaningless. It could be used against any reward path ArenaNet implements, no matter how egregious. It shuts down all discussion of whether a reward path is good for the game or its players. That should be a legitimate topic of discussion.

[Hadi.2430]

Harcore Meta " Anet killing its playerbase"

Casual Meta "Anet killing its playerbase"

Normal Mode  "Anet don't care about us elitists"

CM " Anet driving towards WoW direction!!"

Minigame  "Anet killed the fun !"

Imagine posting a thread about a (mini-game) 

 

 

my god w.e they do people will still complain

Edited March 24, 2022 by sammokdadd.3602

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

But, as a customer, they are free to express to the developers that they don't like the choice ArenaNet made for how to get them.

Really, this response is pretty meaningless. It could be used against any reward path ArenaNet implements, no matter how egregious. It shuts down all discussion of whether a reward path is good for the game or its players. That should be a legitimate topic of discussion.

Of course they are, it’s their time and if they want to spend it complaining for weeks they are free to do so. 
I don’t really like map completions but they have to be done to get legendaries. But instead of complaining about it,  I just do it. I don’t think I’m special or better than others. 
 

Edited March 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Excursion.9752]

11 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

That's kind of circular.

There are things that are worth having that are given. Not everything has to be some reward at the end of work. But that's getting philisophical and much bigger than this, which is an entertainment.

People love the PoF mounts. One was given for merely doing one story instance. The others took completing one heart and paying some gold for the saddle. I don't think I've ever seen anyone declaring that the raptor was such a shame because it didn't involve a collection to unlock it.

All of which is beside the point that disliking the way in which something is earned is not the same thing as asking it to just be given.

The PoF Core mounts were easily obtainable everything since has been tied to achievements and collections.

To think that things need to be changed because they are difficult to get its a big ask. Lets not forget anet did change the way eggs were obtained so they did make it easier for people to start on their way. To ask for another change is a bit much in what already is a fairly easy task for the most part.