Can-we slow down the pace of the game's combat? While we are at it, can-we talk about lack of builds and skills/traits that are viable/unviable?

[ChillyKoti.1928]

I don't understand people assuming that

-I am noob

-I am old

-I want a bunker meta

People are always on one extreme or the other,

"Oh no, bunker meta demand, wtf..."

I am also confused with the community immediately calling people that struggle to enjoy an assassin blinking, perma cc and condi meta "low skill".

Fast=skill?

Okay...

Also here is something for people that thinks I want a "bunker meta"

I hate immortal walls playstyle. Both playing one and fighting one.

Also

There is indeed too many condition removals, condition application,

Too many blinks, evades, block.

There is too many of everything.

I also came in the game back then because it was indeed fast paced, it's too fast now. But it's not just that,

If I don't play the same playstyle as everyone, I do not have any chance to succeed at all.

Player skill do not matter anymore.

I used to be platinum 2 around 4 years ago but I guess I am an old decrepit noob based on the community.

I guess I am part of a minority here.

I do not want assassin meta

I do not want condi meta

I do not want tank meta

Or meta at all. You should be able to have varying degree of success depending on your knowledge of the class and every skill and traits should actually make you hesitate to chose, competes between each other.

Middle ground for kitten's sake.

But I guess the community loves the current state of pvp.

I still said what I had to say and I am mostly disapointed that I cannot play the mode anymore with my playstyle. Which is not a kitten tank.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Edge.8724

[UNOwen.7132]

The games pace is already too slow ever since the poorly thought out and even worse executed february megapatch from ... oh god was it 2 years by now? We need to increase damage now, not decrease it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Disregard.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stand The Wall.6987]

dude jesus pls make concise posts and don't double space every little sentence. it'll make it a lot easier to read and people will actually feel like reading it.

[greedywholesome.9081]

Hello OP 🙂

 

 

Build diversity would be nice, agree w/you.

 

 

 

Also yeah, some classes need their traits re-worked due to lack of synergy.

 

 

 

 

 

However, though I respect your opinion on pace, I personally enjoy the fast gameplay and hooked on quickness and superspeed on 

 

certain builds.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone on the thread said you were old, noob or whatnot. I may have missed it but if you made it to Plat 2 years ago, it shouldn't bother

 

 

you. Some of the comments were

 

actually constructive. 

 

 

 

 

What you can try is play a build that applies a lot of chill.

 

 

 

 

I hope you don't take offense with my suggestion. 

 

 

 

You mentioned the warrior class a few times. Is that what's bothering you? If so, I also agree they were gutted. Matter of 

 

 

 

 

fact, I played the warrior for a week a so back in Nov/Dec. The game play is quite different now but I kinda liked kiting and stalling opponents on SB. 

 

 

Have a 

 

 

 

 

nice day.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

6 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Then why there were heal, downstate and defensive amulets originally?

Because the damage to counter healing power, downstate, and other tanky stats was there in the past. 

The only reason they even removed them in the first place is because they knew with all the global damage nerfs and CD increases that these old defensive styles of play would be too strong at what they're built to do.

If you look at the timeframe in which all these sigils, runes, and amulets were removed, you will have proof. The vast majority of them were removed either in the 2/25/2020 patch or in the patches since. How's that for build diversity? Pffft.

They even had to remove Celestial ammy, so you must know its bad. When Cele ammy is considered "too tanky" something is seriously wrong.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[ShionKreth.1542]

I agree, it's a little too fast overall- if you're not intimately familiar with the specific build someone is playing, you can't even follow what's happening while spectating a match. Also makes it so the learning curve for PVP is a lot higher, and the gap between skilled and new players a lot more pronounced. That said, I think we all understand that they couldn't change something so far reaching now, even if they wanted to. 

[ChillyKoti.1928]

I don't see the point to reply anymore. Everyone loves the spam feist and they assume weird things of me.

Yeah yeah, too much space, the forum acted weird, I didn't meant to do that much space and I tried edit as best I can.

I am not sure how people enjoy the current state of fighting in pvp. Everyone just blinks everywhere, perma cc everyone and there's too much of everything again, too much condition application, too much condition removal, too much multi-hit stuff. But hey, if the devs and all the community loves that, my apologies for posting it and for ever daring to think people would have prefered a more skill demanding playstyle to be decent and working in the game.

Meta should be better, not the only way to play.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Edge.8724

[Spellhunter.9675]

9 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Because the damage to counter healing power, downstate, and other tanky stats was there in the past. 

If the damage was there then why everyone complained about "bunker meta" back then? If the damage was there how there were times when tourny games sometimes were played without single kill? Mind you I'm talking about vanilla times because I don't agree with the statement "the game combat system designed to be fast paced". As I remember it, you could kill someone fast BUT you need to bait dodges, defensive CDs and find opportunity window to land your combo. And for me it was much easier to avoid being killed back then. In other words the game was more tactical as I see it. 

 

I don't know much about HoT times since I didn't played it, but when I came back in PoF the first thing I noticed was everyone had more of everything. More damage modifiers, more boons, more mobility (especially this, I was amazed by the amount of blinks), more evade and block frames. Like it was arms race. Nowadays the games feels like spamfest. You approach your enemy and smash all your buttons with couple of random dodges and hope you outspammed your opponent. It works up to plat 2 - plat 3 with meta builds. Maybe the TTK now is longer than before, but due to the game is more spammy combat feels faster. For example, if I'm waiting and not spamming my skills for couple of seconds I feel like I'm putting myself in disadvantage.

 

Everything I wrote above is just my feelings about the game. Maybe I'm just bad and slow player, maybe I remember vannila days wrong due to nostalgia.

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, Edge.8724 said:

I don't understand people assuming that

-I am noob

-I am old

-I want a bunker meta

People are always on one extreme or the other,

"Oh no, bunker meta demand, wtf..."

I am also confused with the community immediately calling people that struggle to enjoy an assassin blinking, perma cc and condi meta "low skill".

Fast=skill?

Okay...

Also here is something for people that thinks I want a "bunker meta"

I hate immortal walls playstyle. Both playing one and fighting one.

Also

There is indeed too many condition removals, condition application,

Too many blinks, evades, block.

There is too many of everything.

I also came in the game back then because it was indeed fast paced, it's too fast now. But it's not just that,

If I don't play the same playstyle as everyone, I do not have any chance to succeed at all.

Player skill do not matter anymore.

I used to be platinum 2 around 4 years ago but I guess I am an old decrepit noob based on the community.

I guess I am part of a minority here.

I do not want assassin meta

I do not want condi meta

I do not want tank meta

Or meta at all. You should be able to have varying degree of success depending on your knowledge of the class and every skill and traits should actually make you hesitate to chose, competes between each other.

Middle ground for kitten's sake.

But I guess the community loves the current state of pvp.

I still said what I had to say and I am mostly disapointed that I cannot play the mode anymore with my playstyle. Which is not a kitten tank.

please

stop

writing

like

that

 

[Sahne.6950]

doublepost

Edited March 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Edge.8724 said:

I don't see the point to reply anymore. Everyone loves the spam feist and they assume weird things of me.

Yeah yeah, too much space, the forum acted weird, I didn't meant to do that much space and I tried edit as best I can.

I am not sure how people enjoy the current state of fighting in pvp. Everyone just blinks everywhere, perma cc everyone and there's too much of everything again, too much condition application, too much condition removal, too much multi-hit stuff. But hey, if the devs and all the community loves that, my apologies for posting it and for ever daring to think people would have prefered a more skill demanding playstyle to be decent and working in the game.

Meta should be better, not the only way to play.

I think we need to clarify something here.

The combat is VERY FAST compared to previous times. There is alot going on... ALOT. Alot of blinks/invulns/evades/ you name it.

BUT the actual Time it to kill is slow. Good luck killing a good Fireweaver in under 30 seconds or even a minute. It is simply not going to happen.

I dont see why anyone would ask to slow down the combat even more.

 

How do you define "slow down the pace" do you mean "Less skills per minute" or do you mean we need to "increase the time it takes to kill a player"? Or do you want to tone down everything Blinks/invulnv/Evade.

If you want less skills per minute there is some Lowintensity builds that might fit you.

If you want to increase the time to kill.... I have to sincerely ask whats wrong with you 😧

If you want skills removed: I am sorry this will unfortunately not happen. What you are describing is very common for MMO´s that age. More and more stuff is added over the lifespan of a game and that is a good thing actually. Imagine every game being stuck in the past and not evolving.

Altho i agree that there is ALOT going on at times.... but If you think there is to much going on in Gw2 combat... MAYYYYYBEE it is just not for you. It is very sad but you have to put your nostalgia away and finally arrive in 2022. You have to accept that Gw2 is what it is and will probably not change any time soon. Go with the flow or drown.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Spellhunter.9675]

10 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

What you are describing is very common for MMO´s that age. More and more stuff is added over the lifespan of a game and that is a good thing actually. Imagine every game being stuck in the past and not evolving. Would become pretty lame for any hardcore players that play the game for a vast ammount of time.

Do not confuse the concept of content consumers with the concept of a hardcore players. These are different things.

Also adding more stuff is not evolving. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Spellhunter.9675

[Sahne.6950]

17 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Do not confuse the concept of content consumers with the concept of a hardcore players. These are different things.

Also adding more stuff is not evolving. 

ok then lets change the term: it would be lame for any player that sticks around in the game for several years.

i agree adding more stuff is not equal to evolution of a game. But gw2 chose a business model where they add more and more especs to the game with every expansion. This is their way of evolving the game. And with new especs come new utility skills and weaponskills. And they HAVE TO BE new things. Imagine every espec just being a reskin of core, where they simply change the animations and order of available traits, but in the end it is the same espec over and over.

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[greedywholesome.9081]

14 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

ok then lets change the term: it would be lame for any player that sticks around in the game for several years.

i agree adding more stuff is not equal to evolution of a game. But gw2 chose a business model where they add more and more especs to the game with every expansion. This is their way of evolving the game. And with new especs come new utility skills and weaponskills. And they HAVE TO BE new things. Imagine every espec just being a reskin of core, where they simply change the animations and order of available traits, but in the end it is the same espec over and over.

 

 

Yup. Very astute. The developers need to maintain sensory stimuli within gaming interactions in an attempt to keep many of us interested. Most will not stick around and the game is almost a decade old. In my most humble opinion, Anet isn't aggressive enough with monetization relative to other developers. This game is not perfect but overall a good value for our money and they really are trying. 

 

The issue with pace is that so many things were introduced yet the game mode stayed the same, heck most of the maps didn't change or evolve along with the expansions and new specs. That significant imbalance will influence pace. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

21 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Then why there were heal, downstate and defensive amulets originally?

Im sry but ur confusing fast paced combat with low time to kill ratio, those are two completely different things.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

If the damage was there then why everyone complained about "bunker meta" back then? If the damage was there how there were times when tourny games sometimes were played without single kill? Mind you I'm talking about vanilla times because I don't agree with the statement "the game combat system designed to be fast paced". As I remember it, you could kill someone fast BUT you need to bait dodges, defensive CDs and find opportunity window to land your combo. And for me it was much easier to avoid being killed back then. In other words the game was more tactical as I see it. 

 

I don't know much about HoT times since I didn't played it, but when I came back in PoF the first thing I noticed was everyone had more of everything. More damage modifiers, more boons, more mobility (especially this, I was amazed by the amount of blinks), more evade and block frames. Like it was arms race. Nowadays the games feels like spamfest. You approach your enemy and smash all your buttons with couple of random dodges and hope you outspammed your opponent. It works up to plat 2 - plat 3 with meta builds. Maybe the TTK now is longer than before, but due to the game is more spammy combat feels faster. For example, if I'm waiting and not spamming my skills for couple of seconds I feel like I'm putting myself in disadvantage.

 

Everything I wrote above is just my feelings about the game. Maybe I'm just bad and slow player, maybe I remember vannila days wrong due to nostalgia.

The Bunker Meta was annoying then, it's like 10x worse now since the very idea of Bunker Buster builds is a distant memory. You need a +1 to crack a bunker that has any clue what they're doing.

Vindicator filled the role for a couple weeks, but that's been nerfed now. They were hitting 11k on my over 3k armor defense Spellbreaker, now they hit for 5k(Tested earlier with a friend)

 

Other than that I find myself in complete agreement with this amalgamation of words you've wrote here. I think the major difference is that I prefer the other two options you described as opposed to the spamfest easily and without a doubt.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

16 hours ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

Hello OP 🙂

 

 

Build diversity would be nice, agree w/you.

 

 

 

Also yeah, some classes need their traits re-worked due to lack of synergy.

 

 

 

 

 

However, though I respect your opinion on pace, I personally enjoy the fast gameplay and hooked on quickness and superspeed on 

 

certain builds.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone on the thread said you were old, noob or whatnot. I may have missed it but if you made it to Plat 2 years ago, it shouldn't bother

 

 

you. Some of the comments were

 

actually constructive. 

 

 

 

 

What you can try is play a build that applies a lot of chill.

 

 

 

 

I hope you don't take offense with my suggestion. 

 

 

 

You mentioned the warrior class a few times. Is that what's bothering you? If so, I also agree they were gutted. Matter of 

 

 

 

 

fact, I played the warrior for a week a so back in Nov/Dec. The game play is quite different now but I kinda liked kiting and stalling opponents on SB. 

 

 

Have a 

 

 

 

 

nice day.

dude lol

[greedywholesome.9081]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

dude lol

 

I was "mirroring" the OP to build friendly, playful rapport coz he seemed stressed but I failed 😞

It's ok to be nostalgic. I miss the original Capricorn map with the underwater mid and real working cannons we control. I miss playing ultra glass core shatter mesmer, boon corrupt necro with 20 sec Lich Form that hard countered eles and engies but got owned by warriors and bear bow rangers.

 

Back then,  PvP was noob friendly because all one had to do was experiment builds via hotjoin. No one cared about your build there. PvP used to be a 10v10 then 8v8 mess with almost the same maps we have now yet it was fun. I miss launching people off the map with my engie in the original Sky Hammer. Those were literally 1 sec kills. I miss the original HOTM map and mapchat then used to be always PvP or build related. 

 

So on and so forth. 

 

Lol

 

 

[Infinity.2876]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:29 PM, coro.3176 said:

This is what gameplay used to be like. This is slow combat.

I think that era was better. Fights were more of a chess match, where small mistakes added up over time to cost you the fight.

Currently, it's more like a very intense shootout, where each player trades burst with the opponent and hope yours kills them before theirs kills you. So yeah, TTK is still too short.

I agree that it could be a little bit slower but not that slow it would make every fight like "ugh here we go again" and by the time the match was finished you had only gotten like one kill maybe two also they would need to slow point gen alot

Edited March 16, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Stand The Wall.6987]

5 hours ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

I miss launching people off the map with my engie in the original Sky Hammer.

we are enemies

[Eddie.9143]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:29 AM, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

The mobility creep has sped the game up way too much. Anet please make larger pvp maps. 

and make nodes 2x the size.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

I miss launching people off the map with my engie in the original Sky Hammer.

*Laughs in Scorpion Wire*

An agent of chaos I see

Edited March 17, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:28 AM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

we are enemies

 

Aww c'mon, I'd never do that to you. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:00 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*Laughs in Scorpion Wire*

An agent of chaos I see

 

Tsk, like you've never tried it 🙂

 

Hope OP reads this as well.... Bladesworn is good!!!! Knew it from the start before the recent thread about its sustain. I even told someone (former Vindicator, lol)  to roll it. Nice to see a warrior spec back in game.