Mechanist is currently destroying the game. Please consider adjusting it ASAP.

[Blackmon.1903]

11 minutes ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

It's very simple. Those who want to use a negative word would call it envy, but its really all about justice. It's about people wanting their play style to be just as worthy as others and dont want to be overshadowed by some other OP stuff. It's telling a lie if you think that normal functionining humans don't care about others choices - it's a very important thing to feel a purpose to your char that its relevant and especially all the nerfs to peoples favorite chars over time it pisses them off to see other speccss get loading with ezmode OP and hearing people try to defend that thehy should keep it.

It's all about justice, respecting everyones right to be on level. That's also why annoying playstyles that rage players get nerfed the most, such as pet and ai styles, because it feels really bad both to play against and feels unfair if its just as good or better than  a hardworking specc.

To me, that shouldn't be a problem because that means those same people who has a hardworking spec would have to work less harder this time because a class is helping them get to the finish much faster than if they're mostly the ones who are doing the work.  On a cooperative game, the better the performance of everyone is, the better because in the end, you get the same rewards regardless of how much you contributed and you finish it that much faster. 

Would most of those with hardworking specc be ok with carrying players who does mediocre damage because their class got nerfed?  Because that means those with a hardworking specc would have to work harder to compensate for the players who's class got nerfed because they felt invalidated. 
 

[angrax.1372]

From a point of view of a player who is only now going through the living world content, we do need solo, self-sustaining builds.

 

An example: I am doing LW4 now and I found the content in island of Istan an overwhelming increase in difficulty. Whereas before I could solo most meta events and even some bounties and fractals, I noticed it is very easy to die in season 4. That would not be an issue if there were players in the map to team up with and do the content. That makes it hard do complete some very wanted achievements. I see many content void of players as expansions are released and people move to the latest end game content.

 

I am more than happy to have a dependable self sustained solo build for every class. It is perfectly fine for open world and these classes are not the best for end-game group content anyways because they usually are selfish and trade dps for survival.

Edited March 22, 2022 by angrax.1372

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Not good to have in an action game.

I agree, but it's here to stay.  You should try to be constructive.  There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the design, but simply screaming at the sky that the spec never should have been and exaggerating what it can do to make your points isn't helping anyone.

[AliamRationem.5172]

12 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

EoD literally gave us ONE good E-spec class and you want it nerfed? 
All other E-specs should be buffed to this level for EoD. 

I don't know how good the spec is, but buffing everything else to bring them all on the level is generally not the answer.  If the spec is "good" because it's overtuned, then the answer is to nerf where appropriate.  Always.  We don't need another firebrand.

[Stx.4857]

Mechanist isn't overtuned though.  It's not top at anything right now except possibly Solo pve in which case we can have a discussion about the mech being too tanky which is a legitimate case.  I would say that the mech is only too tanky for builds with toughness though.   

[Pokedranzer.4856]

I think people forget that the 40/39k dps bench for jade dynamo and jdrive respectively also assumes full might, fury, alacrity, and quickness on the mech as well. The reason the Lord Hizen build's mech does so much damage is that the mech gets full might, stability, and alacrity. The issue also isn't the mech here. The issue is the Juggernaut trait in firearms, That is what is enabling the full might and stab uptime for both the mech and the engi. The openworld build Lord Hizen has wouldn't be possible without it without signficant damage tradeoffs. You need 85% Boon Duration to upkeep 25 stacks of might alone. Juggernaut drops that down significantly. 

Edit because I just remembered this: Anet has said that Juggernaut has been a problem trait. A lot of the LI easy openworld engi builds run it too and camp flamethrower.

Source on the Anet has said: 

 (Yes, I know it is about SPvP. No that does not change that it is a problem trait in openworld as well.)

Edited March 23, 2022 by Pokedranzer.4856

[RabbitUp.8294]

8 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

My flesh golem lost 50% of it's HP soloing a random normal mob in sirens landing(and took forever to do it). I swap to mech and my mech kills it in < 5 seconds with 100% HP left. Not true at all.

You are comparing the elite spec's entire sale point to a single necro summon. 

Take multiple minions and the death magic traitline, then you can see how minionmancer works. You also have scourge that can give barrier to its minions.

Also the point is not whether the pet itself can kill something, but whether it can handle the aggro so you can kill it together, so your "test" is kind of irrelevant to begin with.

[RabbitUp.8294]

2 hours ago, Pokedranzer.4856 said:

I think people forget that the 40/39k dps bench for jade dynamo and jdrive respectively also assumes full might, fury, alacrity, and quickness on the mech as well. The reason the Lord Hizen build's mech does so much damage is that the mech gets full might, stability, and alacrity. The issue also isn't the mech here. The issue is the Juggernaut trait in firearms, That is what is enabling the full might and stab uptime for both the mech and the engi. The openworld build Lord Hizen has wouldn't be possible without it without signficant damage tradeoffs. You need 85% Boon Duration to upkeep 25 stacks of might alone. Juggernaut drops that down significantly. 

Edit because I just remembered this: Anet has said that Juggernaut has been a problem trait. A lot of the LI easy openworld engi builds run it too and camp flamethrower.

Source on the Anet has said: 

 (Yes, I know it is about SPvP. No that does not change that it is a problem trait in openworld as well.)

Renegade can have perma 25 might without any boon duration.

Hizen soloed the dragonstorm meta on a condi renegade. Yes, that was with pre-nerf Tormenting runes, but renegade still has tons of healing.

[Pokedranzer.4856]

51 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Renegade can have perma 25 might without any boon duration.

 

That's the point having permanent 25 might increases damage by A LOT. A permanent 1500 stat increase is kinda nutty.

[RabbitUp.8294]

2 hours ago, Pokedranzer.4856 said:

That's the point having permanent 25 might increases damage by A LOT. A permanent 1500 stat increase is kinda nutty.

My point is that its hardly exclusive to engi. A lot of classes can have 25 might by themselves. If anything, engi needs to use flamethrower, other classes don't need to limit themselves.

[Malus.2184]

 

On 3/20/2022 at 11:00 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

How can the golem tank raidbosses? those ignore pets otherwise druid pet could tank aswell.

herald has similar afk dps. mirage has 30k afk dps. signet condi mech doing 40k is the bigger problem but since every casual defends scourge dps i dont see this changing.

There was a bug where bosses would sometimes focus on the mech instead of the Mechanist, which made tanking some bosses a downright pain. It seems to have been fixed now as bosses properly hit the player now.

[frareanselm.1925]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:26 PM, ugrakarma.9416 said:

destroy open world how's??

i didnt see yet any LFG with "mechanists only" for EOD meta, like we have "necros only" squad trying beating marionette on early days.

 

if u dont like it, don't play it.

Your argument is so stupid. If something is broken is providing a unfair advantage over other classes and need to fe fixed.

What do you think when somebody uses an exploit or hacks? If you dont like them dont use it?

[ugrakarma.9416]

30 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Your argument is so stupid. If something is broken is providing a unfair advantage over other classes and need to fe fixed.

What do you think when somebody uses an exploit or hacks? If you dont like them dont use it?

how's other playing the game ruim my game? i don't remember to subscribed myself into a race.

i do metas, maps, exploring, farm gold, i didnt find anything that could stop me.

i think the real stupidity its that over-obscession is with how others have fun and enjoy the game.

Edited March 23, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[AliamRationem.5172]

34 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

how's other playing the game ruim my game? i don't remember to subscribed myself into a race.

i do metas, maps, exploring, farm gold, i didnt find anything that could stop me.

i think the real stupidity its that over-obscession is with how others have fun and enjoy the game.

By that logic it shouldn't matter if they nerf your spec either.  Balance matters in general and to you, whether you want to admit it or not.

[ugrakarma.9416]

49 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

By that logic it shouldn't matter if they nerf your spec either.  Balance matters in general and to you, whether you want to admit it or not.

Nerf make it less fun.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Nerf make it less fun.

Right. And buffing everything makes it more fun. It's so simple! 🙄

[Pokedranzer.4856]

12 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Your argument is so stupid. If something is broken is providing a unfair advantage over other classes and need to fe fixed.

 

But Mechanist ISN'T invalidating other forms of play. That means it isn't an unfair advantage. If something warped the game around it so much that any other strategy is irrelevant is when it needs to be axed immediately. There is literally no reason to nerf mechanist on the grounds that it is "overpowered" when others can still do its job at the same level. I'm personally in the camp of put everything on the same level through buffs and slight numbers reduction rather than hard nerfs to anything. People will be happy that their classes and specs got buffed and the smaller nerfs makes the people whose classes and specs got nerfed not be too butt hurt about it. Getting your builds hard nerfed feels awful. Will it be needed for overtly egregious circumstances? Yes. Mechanist is not one of those circumstances.
 

 

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Right. And buffing everything makes it more fun. It's so simple! 🙄

Fun is subjective.

 

[LeSavage.1359]

On 3/20/2022 at 10:32 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

The mech can EASILY tank strike bosses. It should not be able to generate enmity at all.

The mech makes all open world content a snoozefest and extremely safe. Actually safer than any torment runes/self sustain build you nerfed going into EoD.

Support mechanist is just as good as Firebrand in groups(provides alac instead of quickness though).

DPS mechanist is doing extremely high DPS.

The skill floor on this class is extremely low, probably the lowest in the entire game.

You can do ~26k DPS while literally AFK only auto-attacking.

 

So its bad if theres another option to play support healer instead of firebrand? Variety is bad? Those benchmarks tells machinist is on par with other condi dpses. Hows that bad? Op did u forget to take ur meds? 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, LeSavage.1359 said:

So its bad if theres another option to play support healer instead of firebrand? Variety is bad? Those benchmarks tells machinist is on par with other condi dpses. Hows that bad? Op did u forget to take ur meds? 

 

If the argument comes down to "It's almost as good as firebrand!" then, yeah, it's overperforming.  Firebrand is the most broken kitten that's ever been.  Why they don't just give that class the catalyst treatment until they can figure out how to fix it is beyond me.

[LeSavage.1359]

35 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

If the argument comes down to "It's almost as good as firebrand!" then, yeah, it's overperforming.  Firebrand is the most broken kitten that's ever been.  Why they don't just give that class the catalyst treatment until they can figure out how to fix it is beyond me.

I dont understand u QQers. Instead of playing and enjoying the class if its strong u whine on forums to nerf it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

38 minutes ago, LeSavage.1359 said:

I dont understand u QQers. Instead of playing and enjoying the class if its strong u whine on forums to nerf it.

That's the problem.  People do play classes because they overperform.  It's why firebrand/renegade/scourge was at 80% representation and why they announced their efforts to begin nerfing them down to make room for other classes.  So, again, if it's overperforming to that level (I'm not saying it is), it only makes sense to trim it.  Like I said, if you want to say "But firebrand!" you already lost the argument. 

[Jalad Lantana.3027]

The Engi/Mech is viable and average, not OP. 

The proof is in the pudding.  LFG is not screaming for Condi/Engineer/Mechs.

Wade solo with a mech into the Whispering Grottos in Elon Riverlands and see how long you and it last versus various level Hydras and adds.

Try to play one in challenging content and come away with zero self or mech deaths after a week.

Judging from the obvious popularity of the Engi/Mech specialization, it is a big hit.  I think it is the best thing about this expansion.

The mech requires constant management, especially when multiple hostiles are near, and high involvement in activating it's skills at the appropriate times.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Jalad Lantana.3027

[Valisha.8650]

Let me guess; A guardian main doesn't like that his HFB finally got some fair competitor? 😛 

[Axl.8924]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:29 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Better than 1/10th the damage of the high end without having to perform gymnastics to survive would be great.  Making it a competitive dps or support role should be a no go due to the design. 

That is unless they want to design some traits that create a more interactive playstyle in exchange for taking some power off the golem for those who would like the option.

Comparing easier to harder classes based on button mash didn't work because If for instance: ele and mes are more complicated button combos and lets say nec were easier then you would have to nerf to inneficiency and that would cause groups of people to leave and i doubt ANET wants that. What you can do is compare classes in roles and say Here is weaver here is holosmith here is mechanist what do we want mechanist to be? what vision do we have for weaver and catalyst? what about the vision for  lets say dragonhunter vs willbender?

[frareanselm.1925]

10 hours ago, Pokedranzer.4856 said:

But Mechanist ISN'T invalidating other forms of play. That means it isn't an unfair advantage. If something warped the game around it so much that any other strategy is irrelevant is when it needs to be axed immediately. There is literally no reason to nerf mechanist on the grounds that it is "overpowered" when others can still do its job at the same level. I'm personally in the camp of put everything on the same level through buffs and slight numbers reduction rather than hard nerfs to anything. People will be happy that their classes and specs got buffed and the smaller nerfs makes the people whose classes and specs got nerfed not be too butt hurt about it. Getting your builds hard nerfed feels awful. Will it be needed for overtly egregious circumstances? Yes. Mechanist is not one of those circumstances.
 

 

Fun is subjective.

 

Dude, the golem is tanking strike bosses while the strongest ranger pet cannot even tank a bronze boss lol. Other classes do the same?