Zok.4956 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: I get your point, but for example WOW has enough freedom to do stuff outside raids and dungeons for players that don't like endgame . It seems you have a very specific idea what "endgame" is from other games. In GW2 everything a level-80 character can do is considered endgame. It can be fishing, mount races, fashion contests, achievements (collections and quests), getting legendary gear, raids and fractal-CMs, sPvP WvW ... whatever. 23 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: But Gw2 has no endgame it is all casual 24/7 crafting resources farm converting to gold and gems. That statement is wrong. And it does sound a little bit like the question "I am level 80 now. What should I do?" that appears from time to time in the forum and in chat. 27 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: because I have no use for them, the gear is worth nothing to keep because no gear progression no beter gear. It just feels the same as when the game went live years ago. That is the issue with GW2. I don't want to be and sound rude, but if gear progression (like it is in other games but not in GW2) is your main motivation to play a game and to feel rewarded, then GW2 maybe is not the best choice for you. Making the "gear progression" different from other games is a major and very conscious decision by the developers. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thon.3780 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 As old gamer since RO FF11 GW1 FF14 GW2 I can say GW2 have mix of old and new player most . Coz once you reach lv80 , you can come back any time . Also new comer use only few time to catch up the current player. On opposite, RO or FF14, you need to lv up again to catch up with old friend. So for full time people or. Who has family . It is hard or zero chance to return. and finally it will have only old and hard core player left and die down. ( I am in this group) as for GW2 , I am not sure ANET try to use gw1 with name elite or not but I think gw1 give more flexibility and simplicity to do main / sub profession than gw2 . So… the story content can go on but the difficulty to design new elite will increase each expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, vares.8457 said: Introducing gear progression would be the worst thing they can do. Everyone who wants that please go play WoW. GW2 is the wrong game for you. yawn. Actually. One the of the games biggest flaws( in my opinion) is the lack of character progression outside of being told to 'buy' some exotics and you are set. They should just be a place holder to getting the better stuff and the game should guide you there. Hell put agony on world bosses, make people work a bit more with their gear. 😕 Edited May 12, 2022 by Dami.5046 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vares.8457 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said: yawn. Actually. One the of the games biggest flaws( in my opinion) is the lack of character progression outside of being told to 'buy' some exotics and you are set. They should just be a place holder to getting the better stuff and the game should guide you there. Hell put agony on world bosses, make people work a bit more with their gear. 😕 After exotic gear there is ascended gear and legendary gear. You want gear progression? Go for full legendary. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 1 minute ago, vares.8457 said: After exotic gear there is ascended gear and legendary gear. You want gear progression? Go for full legendary. Funny enough...... *laughs in full legendary' 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said: yawn. Actually. One the of the games biggest flaws( in my opinion) is the lack of character progression outside of being told to 'buy' some exotics and you are set. They should just be a place holder to getting the better stuff and the game should guide you there. Hell put agony on world bosses, make people work a bit more with their gear. 😕 Simple as that and still players on the GW2 forums will be offended because that means change...I just don't get it why some are so against it. 1 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vares.8457 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Just now, venator.8326 said: Simple as that and still players on the GW2 forums will be offended because that means change...I just don't get it why some are so against it. It took me a long time to get three full legendary armor sets, most of the legendary weapons and legendary trinkets. Why would I want them to be useless just because some people want to turn this into a cheap WoW clone? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said: It took me a long time to get three full legendary armor sets, most of the legendary weapons and legendary trinkets. Why would I want them to be useless just because some people want to turn this into a cheap WoW clone? So having some gear progression in an MMO is immediately considered a cheap WOW clone? God forbit you are playing a MMORPG, oh wait you are GW2 /lol... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: Simple as that and still players on the GW2 forums will be offended because that means change Why do you attack players with different points of view by assuming a motivation that suits you? 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) I don't think people are reading my post outside of seeing my name and confusing. The gear progression is already in the game so the game should drive people to get the better gear. I think the character level going up 5 more levels and having the legendary go up with them (level that is) would not only give people something to do but make getting the legendary more worth as it would be totally one and done and you wouldn't need to make anymore gear. waits for all the confused cos i am. 🤣 Edited May 12, 2022 by Dami.5046 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: Simple as that and still players on the GW2 forums will be offended because that means change...I just don't get it why some are so against it. Once again, it’s not fear of change, it’s that some of us are here precisely because this game doesn’t have a gear treadmill. The fact that you can’t understand it doesn’t invalidate that preference. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Gibson.4036 said: Once again, it’s not fear of change, it’s that some of us are here precisely because this game doesn’t have a gear treadmill. The fact that you can’t understand it doesn’t invalidate that preference. well it does and it doesn't.. So you stay all the time in one stat? 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said: Why do you attack players with different points of view by assuming a motivation that suits you? I speak from personal experience on GW2 social platforms, asking about gear progression that might be a good thing to implement will be met with 'Move along, go play wow, this game is one of a kind, we don't want change...and so on'. I'm just speaking from my point of view what would be nice to have in the game to give it more meaning to invest time playing the game. I'm not here to attack players that have different view's. Edited May 12, 2022 by venator.8326 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 1 minute ago, venator.8326 said: I speak from personal experience on GW2 social platforms, asking about gear progression that might be a good thing to implement will be met with 'Move along, go play wow, this game is one of a kind, we don't want change...and so on'. I'm just speaking from my point of view what would be nice to have in the game to give it more meaning to invest time playing the game. I'm not here to attack players that different view's. Have you been on the 'new way to get pve Leggie armour' threads? hahha. It's the same there. I always find it funny when people think they are insulting me by telling me to go make legendries if i say anything about Character progression. . I am always working on them. But it's ok to nerf the skyscale to hell to the point we got that stupid short achieve for the turtle that made zero sense. no one wants to do anything *sigh* 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said: Have you been on the 'new way to get pve Leggie armour' threads? hahha. It's the same there. I always find it funny when people think they are insulting me by telling me to go make legendries if i say anything about Character progression. . I am always working on them. But it's ok to nerf the skyscale to hell to the point we got that stupid short achieve for the turtle that made zero sense. no one wants to do anything *sigh* or i might add comment other than emote. hahah! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: I speak from personal experience on GW2 social platforms, asking about gear progression that might be a good thing to implement will be met with 'Move along, go play wow, this game is one of a kind, we don't want change...and so on'. I'm just speaking from my point of view what would be nice to have in the game to give it more meaning to invest time playing the game. I'm not here to attack players that different view's. It's like playing soccer and then asking to play with your hands instead of your feet because... you come from basketball and you like it better the way a basketball game is. Assuming players who have different opinions that they don't have good reasons for their opinions but simply don't want change is a form of "ad hominem" attack/argument. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Dami.5046 said: The game has a future? Not from where i'm sitting. I remember reading this exact thing, oh, about 9 years ago. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 29 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: would be nice to have in the game to give it more meaning to invest time playing the game A gear progression system is the exact opposite of adding meaning to the time invested playing the game. All the endgame gear you get now will forever be the endgame gear. It will never be obviated or made irrelevant, replaced by a new tier in a new expansion. It is a maximal amount of meaning to the time invested obtaining it. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: I remember reading this exact thing, oh, about 9 years ago. Haha! Edited May 12, 2022 by Dami.5046 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 On 3/24/2022 at 10:00 AM, Sylum.1806 said: Rebrand Season 4 and Icebrood Saga as "Path of Fire: Living World" and unlock it for all accounts that have purchased PoF. While I can relate to the general sentiment of your post, I'd just like to point out that The Icebrood Saga stands in no relation to PoF other than owning the expansion was made a requirement for access. It's not PoF content, nor does it use PoF mastery points. It's its own product. On 3/24/2022 at 8:19 AM, Sernius Alathar.6538 said: Alot of people have covered game progression adjustments that are required in game, even if the development team doesn't actually read any of it. My issue as always is reward structuring in the game, even mentioning new expansions after that glorified DLC you called an "Expansion" is unproductive and hopelessly optimistic, you need to take the time to go back over previous content and give a tick or cross on what is and isn't fixed, or change to be 1. new player friendly (I cannot imagine how any new player would or could feasibly catch up on previous living world content) 2. make replayable and viable existing content for older players. Most of this comes down to reward mechanisms that have been deleterious to the game post HoT expac. To name a few that have been destroyed by the development team to the point nobody cares anymore:1. Festivals: *Halloween - Halloween used to be a fun time to just hop on a zerg train farm trick or treat bags and fool around in the laby, kill the bosses get rewards, its old fashioned fun farming, and considering how garbage the contents are from ToT bags because newsflash the dev team has never updated them to have anything good in them (unless you count the same x-infusions that someone dragged the hue saturation filter higher in photoshop with). I remember the first few halloweens, we could get outfits like the witch outfit etc with farming, there were rewards that were reasonable to collect. Over time it just became a Candycob grind fest, which isn't fun especially when you incrementally increase the costs but reduce the rewards overall. The irony of course is the events and activities are still fun, they just aren't worth anybody's time.*Dragon Bash - Pretty much the same as Halloween. Insert currency change, candy corn = zhaitaffy, cobs=jorbreakers. *Zephyr Fest - the first incarnation of this was spectacular, and not only was the reward schemes good, the events were fun, and you took a page out of GW1 book and made real world drops for kite fortunes which everybody loved, it was fantastic. F. knows why the fun police decided that should of been removed, things like this should be commonplace occurrences, kite fortunes, ToT bags, zephyr supply crates, red letter fortunes, Wintersday Gifts etc. Should have always been world drops during those events as well as the standard activity. We are left with a no-fun resource trade exercise for people to burn materials for excruciatingly valueless supply crates (yay gambling). In theory I have no problem with the crates, until it becomes about purely buying and not just farming for them in the open world and events. *Wintersday - The same thing as the others, like stop being lazy and expand the scope of your event design, and update the kitten gifts so people aren't getting the same crap, If players got rewards like you get from the extra bags you get in BL chests with LS rewards, we might appreciate it a bit more, but also, open world drops - not difficult - learn from GW1.*Queen's Jubilee - Holy Nerfing Batman, what didn't you ruin about this event? The gauntlet was awesome, great rewards for smart co-ordination, and then free reign farming around the map until the meta started again. The arena was great, doing challenges getting rewards, why did you remove the rewards from the arena. Crazy! This fest was always so busy, map capped on multiple maps, now its just sad.2. Dungeons *Abaddon give me strength, whoever decided to remove individual path rewards for dungeons and unify them into that garbage design needs to be removed from any game team that should and does exist. People loved them, hell I used to do nearly all paths daily with my guild before they were destroyed. I've never know a game dev team to make such unbelievably stupid choices that detract players from playing certain content. All it is now is - fastest path only. RIP Lupi you will be remembered fondly. BTW- 10yrs and no new dungeons, shame on you, stop wasting time on gem shop crap and make some real content. 3. Event Scaling * Not much to say other than this change needs a hard ctrl+z. I don't know where the logic is, that when a group of players work together to scale up an event to get better rewards, it's somehow unbalanced. It used to be fun running groups through Cursed shore etc. scaling events up and fighting hordes of risen and champ risen and getting satisfaction from actually getting loot from your enemies. Istan was the same, we used to run events they would scale up, we would get some cool rewards, and also progress the meta chain. win-win for everyone. 4. Loot tables for enemies * The last, I dunno 4 years, the game has been slowly stripping rewards from certain enemy types so that when you kill them, you get a big fat nothing. A good example is enemies that spawn extra enemies - It started in Orr with a particular event that created alot of risen and they could all drop loot, since then its expanded to things like Barracudas when they summon extras, they don't drop loot. Risen spider Hatchlings, etc. There are a lot of enemies that have extraneous spawns but also some enemies just don't drop anything anymore. If an extra enemy spawns at the same strength or sometimes when they scale up to elite, you kitten well should give me the loot for killing it. Such a strange choice to actively find this mechanic and nerf it. Oh also dungeon enemies got their loot tables essentially annihilated as well.5. PvE zones * Specifically Istan is my personal pet peeve - That map is abandoned, nobody goes there other than story reasons, and the only time the meta gets done is during reset time. Istan was the only map of that entire LS group that had replayable content that players enjoyed doing, and it was done properly. Every player did every event, the commanders would organise it so we would all work together to clear each event, to progress the bar, then kill the 1st stage boss, then run through and finish Palawadan. It was like the other HoT metas, every time you cleared it you were rightfully rewarded for your time and effort to finish the events. Apparently doing a meta well and efficiently means it deserved a nerf. So well done fun police, you killed an entire map. If this was ever reverted I would actually praise a renewed dev teams perspective on punitive and harsh reward systems.As for other reward structure issues - Stop making people buy or create exotics to unlock ascended versions with slight graphical changes. Just sell 1 armor piece, for the map currency, Like heart of thorns, or make them drop from meta events. Or utilise existing design mechanics like you had with Jahai Bluffs were it was almost entirely all map currency. But remove these two/three step iterations, they are crap, plain and simple. Also must everything that has an unlock be an ascended version, how much ascended gear do you people think we need, just make exo and ascended skin the same. It's been ridiculous for too long. - NO-MORE-GATING-CONTENT, when I was doing research for the Aurene set of Legendaries I legitimately laughed while talking to my guildmate on discord about the 20week nonsense or being forced to buy on the TP for the certain items needed for 1 weapon. I mean it's laughable enough that the set is identical, it's essentially a BL set with legendary stats, honestly how lazy has the leg weapon team gotten lol. The only way these legs are worth making is if they could change their dragon attunement to any of the other elder dragons. At least they would be dynamic and worth making. But I got a lil side tracked, stuff in game that is still gated like ascended materials, and god even charged quartz, long overdue to be removed and the philosophy of gating. - Overdue, it's been in PvP and WvW for years, Add PvE reward tracks to PvE as well. Allow players to do the content they enjoy while gaining rewards for content that's dead, or simply unfun. Like honestly does anybody want to go back to Thunderhead Keep or any of those LS areas that are just obnoxiously unrewarding and tedious. It wouldn't be that hard to implement it would simply be finding a way to balance how events and/or participation values function on a reward track. - If you guys want something to nerf, how about nearly every single weapon collection from LS after Heart of Thorns. You know the ones, that need 188 of each ascended material to complete, because that's normal and sane. You wonder why people are looking for ways to make gold when you make collections more obscene with every content release. RIP new players.Metas - Anything not designed the way they developed them in HoT is a no-no, you reached the pinnacle of rewards vs participation and time invested in Heart of Thorns, this design is perfect, it makes players feel a sense of accomplishment and progress, especially in long drawn out meta events like in Cantha. Removing this style in Cantha made those meta events extremely stale very quickly.EoD Cantha Specific - Yo guys, you need to make this expansion have value, right now it's a story with no replayable content, until you update the reward systems, the participation systems, and generally all event rewards to give you things meaningful to the vendors in the expac. These areas will have high turn over for the player base, but an unsustainable player base. You don't even get jade slivers or jade fragments from events, or amber in echovald. I think I have ranted enough, I love this game, I've played since the 3-day head start and years of GW1 before, I hate the wasted potential, my guild has essentially died down to a handful because they rather play games that reward their time invested. This is the main issue I see and hear about the most, These are not unfixable changes. I hope someone from ANet does take the time to read this. I think it is well thought out and a 100% correct assessment of the reward situation we have in GW2. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 20 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: A gear progression system is the exact opposite of adding meaning to the time invested playing the game. All the endgame gear you get now will forever be the endgame gear. It will never be obviated or made irrelevant, replaced by a new tier in a new expansion. It is a maximal amount of meaning to the time invested obtaining it. I guess it is a personal taste, but having the same gear forever seems not really fun to me. It is like driving a 1980 VW Golf forever instead of a newer version that has more advanced features and drivercomfort. Now you can say 'The 1980 VW Golf still drives, right?' yes it does but it just feels old and that is how I feel about the forever having the same gear in GW2. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Just now, venator.8326 said: I guess it is a personal taste, but having the same gear forever seems not really fun to me. It is like driving a 1980 VW Golf forever instead of a newer version that has more advanced features and drivercomfort. Now you can say 'The 1980 VW Golf still drives, right?' yes it does but it just feels old and that is how I feel about the forever having the same gear in GW2. Do you have ascended? Do you have legendary? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 25 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said: While I can relate to the general sentiment of your post, I'd just like to point out that The Icebrood Saga stands in no relation to PoF other than owning the expansion was made a requirement for access. It's not PoF content, nor does it use PoF mastery points. It's its own product. I hope someone from ANet does take the time to read this. I think it is well thought out and a 100% correct assessment of the reward situation we have in GW2. Agree 100%. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: I guess it is a personal taste, but having the same gear forever seems not really fun to me. I agree. I don't want the same gear forever (for all my characters), too. Sometimes I want to play and try different gear-stat-combinations (power, condi, celestial, etc.), also for different game modes, sometimes I want to "grind" for a specific gear because of how it looks or how it is used (weapons). Only the max-gear-level and the max-stats will continue to be "ascended" and there will be no better stats than "ascended" in the game. Increasing the max-character level and the max-gear-level, with every expansion for example, like it is in other games, is the easy way out treadmill for games to retain players. The GW2 creators did not wanted that. Because it invalidates all previous gear and does not value and respect the time of players getting their gear in the first place. That's why GW2 instead implemented another form of progression system with the masteries with the release of the HoT expansion. Sure, the mastery progression system is far from perfect and has it's flaws. But I think this progression system is still better than increasing the gear-level again-and-again (with every expansion). 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 18 hours ago, Zok.4956 said: First: That is an ad hominem argument. No need to attack (most) owners of legendary gear. Second: The work for legendary gear would not become pointless. Legendary equipment will always have stat values equivalent to the highest tier of equipment available. what? very few people like to waste time and work like this, SPECIALLY the hardcore crowd and "always" is clearly wrong. as long , as the game is running., yes. as long, as you are playing, yes. unless you are immortal, it wont be always. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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