Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[elsendor.3251]

I'm here to buy ingame items, not gamble for them. Lootboxes are exploitative, a horrible continuation of the trend that's been happening with black lion drops becoming account bound so they can't be sold on the TP.

It's one thing to have dye packs that might not drop the dye you want, but where you can still get that dye on the TP from other people who got duplicates. That's bad enough, but it doesn't require people to gamble to get the item they want.

Recent black lion drops like the elemental sword, the dwayna wings, the dwayna bird mini, etc. require gambling, with no other options, and that's downright unacceptable. There's a reason gambling is regulated IRL, the fact that video games laws haven't caught up is not reason to be this unethical.

Mount skins are another, huge step in that direction. Having to gamble, often ending up paying more than you can afford because of the nature of how gambling works, rather than paying a flat fee for the product you want like a normal, decent transaction.

I have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. I'm a huge skin addict. Hell, I'm working retail along with my usual freelance just so I can afford more gems, but I have never bought black lion keys and have no intention to do so. I also will not be buying any more gems, period, even for non-rng content, until I see this required rng trend stop. Not another cent out of me. I have the money for it now but not everyone does, and your willingness to take advantage of those people deeply disturbs me. I'm not supporting that.

Lootboxes are the dirtiest tactic in video games at present and I'm absolutely disgusted that arenanet, the company I always thought of as better than the rest, has resorted to the same low blows as everyone else. Shape up, or this paying player is gone.

[elsendor.3251]

Oh, and on top of the complete lack of endgame content in POF? Focusing on cash grabs like this is really hollow. What's the point of shelling out cash on skins to look cool in a game with no new engaging gameplay to show them off in? Why would I buy skins when I'm bored of playing just a couple of months after a whole expansion? Serious misbalance of priorities here unless all you want to do is squeeze the last bit of money out of the game and let it die. If you want a healthy game, you have to invest, and that's not what I'm seeing right now.

[Heaven on earth.6249]

It's a loot box system, I personally hate them. I've been playing the gw franchise actively since 2005. If it continues like this you'll loose one of your oldest fan.

[JanTar.5961]

I would also like to voice my opinion on this. Yesterday you would not want to hear my opinion and there would be a lot of kittens in this post if I wrote it yesterday. Needless to say I really hate the way these skins are sold and won't be buying any of them unless they are sold without the lootbox RNG.

The RNG aspect has no advantages for the consumer it's just to make us spend more gems and that is really low and something I would not expect from ANet. And the argument that single random skin is cheaper than chosen skins would be is just a lie, because i don't get what I want from random skin and the lower price is just to pull people in to START buying. And the fact that The Reforged Warhound is presented at 2000 gems to show us how expensive the mount skins would be if we bought them separately and that we should be grateful for the low price of RNG skins is just a disgusting cherry on top!

I'm really disappointed and sad that this RNG crap is in Guild Wars 2 and hope that this will be changed.

[Harms.5973]

I never post on the forums. As a matter of fact, this is my first post on the new forums. I just wanted to express my concerns about these RNG loot boxes. I'm against them for many of the reasons stated by the other non supporters.

I thought I should post to show my concern and back up all the other non supporters for a possible change.

[Traveller.7496]

I am willing to buy mount skins. I thought that if they are 800 per skin, I could still buy a few I like. But these prices, this system, it's wrong.

The random aspect is what annoys me. It caters only to the richest players who will get the skin they want by buying all of them, the rest will have to suck it up.

I know why this system is in place though. Some of the skins are quite mediocre and no one would buy them if sold separately. But that is the fault of the graphic designer, not the customer.

[Cobrakon.3108]

9600 gems is crazy considering most people only really want 5-10 skins. Its a bit counter intuitive because most people will probably only equip 5-10 for their characters and the rest will be wasted. I'd say the celestial, fire, flashy ones should be sold individually but at a premium... Somewhere around 800-1600 gems each.

And maybe even more options like different packs.... Unlock all mounts for one type of mount. So you could have a griffon pack, Jakal pack, etc. Price could be 1500-2000 gems.

Another Idea would be to base it on themes. Celestial pack, flame pack, etc giving u the type u want....and one of the type u choose for each mount type.9600 is a lot of gems to throw down for guaranteeing you get what you want. If you want to do packs thats fine, But let us have smaller bundles so we don't have to feel terrible about buying something, and decide not to buy it because it simply isn't worth it. This is a case of smaller=better and more money for you guys I believe.

[Alakazarm.1847]

I wouldn't have any problem with the system whatsoever if there was evidence that all of the effort of the people making mount skins wasn't going towards the cash shop instead of helping pad the in-game rewards that need so much more of a bump--especially since there are a ton of down to earth mount skins that would fit just fine as an in-game reward. Of course, mounts will inevitably go the way of the glider, except without legendaries.

I don't even have a problem with the RNG aspect of the boxes, although it would be so much better if people could buy the skins they wanted at a premium. Bottom line is, there's an unreal amount of work that went into making the skins that should have gone towards making in-game rewards to keep people invested. Resource allocation like this will sink your ship. PoF may have sold well, but it's an absolute failure in the eyes of the dedicated playerbase. Now it's clear where the effort of constructing rewards went.

I don't play on buying any gems unless/until mount skins become available as in-game rewards. This is disgusting.

[Kenogu.3640]

One point I'm not sure that's been touched on (a quick use of the search bar gave nothing): How does this interact with gifting?

When I give a gift to a friend, usually it's with a personal touch - an outfit that suits their tastes or fits their character, or that makes for a great in-joke (like the fluffy cat hat!)This ability to tailor a gift to a friend is muted entirely with these tickets. I can't pick something fitting; I can only throw a ticket their way and hope it lands on a lucky number.

This, of course, in addition to the concerns already stated. I would gladly pay more than 400 gems per skin, and for several more skins, if I had certainty as to what I was receiving. Please select an honest business model - the loyalty of your players and your own ethical reputation depend on it.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I wish people would stop referring to gambling boxes as lootboxes. Loot is something you take without paying. If you pay for something, it's not loot.

[Arda.2490]

I would have bought some of them if they were not random. But i'm not lucky so i will buy nothing...

[MetalGirl.2370]

Very greedy with this RNG nonsense.They should know that to earn far more money and get more costumers you should let us buy what we want and make what we ask for.So it's weird they do the opposite.Many have stated they'd buy over 5 or 10 even and more if they could only choose what they wanted.I'm hoping they'd do something about it.I'm guessing idea like - lower the price to maybe 300-350 and then give gems to people who bought them for more, so if they got 2 skins for 400, and its down to 300, return 200gems.Or start refunding skin unlocks, then if people want, they can rebuy the ones they want for less.

[Lithlius.5087]

Ive been a player since GW1 Nightfall came out and ive RARELY felt the need to comment in the forums. THIS has definitely brought me out

To summarize EVERYONE's sentiment and mine.The RNG aspect of it is HorriblePeople would much rather cash out a substantial amount of cash if it where guaranteed NOT A LOTTERY.

Suggestions id be ok with:Put each Individual skin for sale at 800 gemsPut a randomized version for 500 gems that lest you choose atleast which mount you want the skin for.The Full 30 pool table make it 300 gems and increment each try. Maybe every adoption it raises by 50 gems? Cap it at some point?

I dont know if Economically for you guys this makes no sense or whatever but it would give a chance for people to play around with their budgets and still feel like they are NOT necesarily being robbed, which this is what it feels like right now.

[Yolanda Hardass.8045]

Times are hard, thrills get cheaper. As your arms get shorter your pockets get deeper

[Traveller.7496]

Make the random skin unlock license available from the actual game as well. Maybe from those damn PoF metas to entice people playing them?

[Shirlias.8104]

Unlike BLC items, these are granted

• no duplicates
• bundle option in order to save gems
• more cash for GW2
• Fashion Gold Sink ( which, unlike the griffon which is content, is totally fine ).

I don't wanna ask anything to ANET, but

to share the nr of mounts sold after the first Weekas you did with the Griffon Mount

in order to know how the skins are really perceived from players ( since the forums is less than 1% of GW2 population ).

[Akayashi.9086]

I've paid a lot of money for this game until now. Often more that 100€ per month. I've played the black lion key gacha game and never got anything good out if it.I'm a skin collector and I love to play the Fashion Wars this game has to offer. But locking like 85% of the mount skins behind the gacha game? With paying 5€ for a chance to get a skin I want? No, thanks. This is just ridiculous and feels like a slap in the face.I'd gladly pay more than 400 gems for a skin I can choose freely, depending on how much effort was put into it but not like this.This seriously makes me consider taking a break from GW2 and spending my money elsewhere.

[Devildoc.6721]

@Ohoni.6057 said:They have no option here but to fix this.

Maintaining the status quo will not stand. They will have to break up the skins into individual sales, different prices for different skins based on complexity, and let people just buy the ones that they want. They will likely have to offer full refunds to anyone who bought skins from the current system, which will likely be a pain in the kitten for them, but it's entirely their own fault for launching it in such a disgusting manner in the first place.

They won't fix it. There are too many whales who will blindly open their wallets and buy it. This is an instance, just like video game boycotts, where the free market fails and any attempts to correct the behavior of a business fail. You'd need about a million people to boycott to make any business reconsider any decision like this. You can voice your opinion but I'm pretty sure anet will flagrantly ignore it and even if they did read it, they're at the very least thinking, if not saying outloud behind their monitor "Yeah well, you can kiss my butt, we're rolling in sales from suckers who just buy everything and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on any RNG box we do, one of them replaces 10 of you. You don't like it? Too bad, it makes money."

[Seffen.2875]

I always have bought some BL Keys since there were always some random things that i liked to have and almost everytime got. So there never was a reason to not buy them since spending 20 € per month on them and receiving some nice things in return was always ok. I never got anything worth more than maybe 10 Gold that i could have sold but nevertheless there have always been some nice Skins or anything. This time there is nothing for me in stock but i will buy again if there is.

The Problem with the Stable is (as far as i think):I bought the Halloween set. It is quite nice but i realised that i do not like it. i run the vanilla Skins, since i like them more. ( i do not regret the buy. Mistakes happen from time to time. I paid 5 bucks per Skin and i knew what i got.)But now i do not even know what i will get. There are several Skins that look quite nice. But i just cannot afford to spend over 100 € to be sure to get them. If it was only seperated by Mounts, then maybe i would give it a consideration since the Chance goes down to 1/6 instead of 1/30. 400 Gems is a fair Price for a Mount Skin. I would even say you could go up to maybe 600. Keeping in mind that you have 5 Mounts i would not go up any further. A 5 € gamble is just to expensive for me. It is fine to make 20 x 1 € gambles with the keys, since i know that there will be something worth the Money. But gambling 4 x 5 € simply does not feel right. The second i knew it gonna be this expensive i did not even check out the Skins closer since i knew i will not buy any.

After reading several Feedbacks i am even more sure about this since there are several things about this i really do not want:Gating 4 Dyes Channel behind a rng lock is really sad.You can get a griffon Skin even if you do not have the griffon (????????) i got it but still...It is fine to have the BL Chests as a gambling and some of the dyes since they are pretty cheap. But there is a certain Limit of gambling i can stand.You cannot even be sure to get a Skin for the Mount you want.Making a single Skin almost as expensive as the whole Expansion????? This one really bugs me out.Locking all 30 Skins behind rng feels bad. Why not make some as legendary Skins obtainable through the game and provide some more Long term Goals. Like the star Thing griffon. Lets say you Need to explore every map plus make the lvl 100 frac for several potions. Then use the well known material dumps and tadaaaaahh! legendary griffon Skin. (30 Skins. you had like 30 Skins already in backhand and did not give us a single one for every Mount with the Expansion? i really feel betrayed)

All in all i come to the Feeling that you are testing out how far you can go with making Money and therefore i will stop spending for now. i will start again if i find something that i really like or have the Feeling that everything is again on a fine lvl.

Another Thing that bugs me ist the amount of cash Skins beeing thrown out right now and the Quality of them. Compared of what we got for PoF it slowly gives me the Feeling, that you are just giving out the minimung and try to sell everything else by the shop. In HoT and the LS i had a Feeling that there was a fine Balance in Quality and quantity of Skins either beeing obtainable throught the store and the game. But right now, i do not have that Feeling anymore.

Of course this will not stop me from playing the game. Since i really enjoy it anyway. (mainly wvw, but PoF made me go full Pve) But i will surely spend less Money on this game from now on.

[Devildoc.6721]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@Disig.7169 said:

While I agree there was a lot of redundancy, I feel like my post and a few others that were well thought out just got completely buried and utterly negated under a huge heap of people not really reading what others are saying and just throwing kitten into a giant echo chamber.

I'm sorry if you feel that way, Disig. I weighed the options carefully, and seeing so much feedback and so many redundancies, I felt this was the best option. One thing I know is that it's easier to read through this focused thread than to find numerous threads on the same topic, which may be scattered throughout a busy forum. And this version will hopefully encourage individual feedback without repetition (by the same person).

@Gazelle.3128 said:"Many of the comments are redundant, in that they repeat comments made in another thread"I like that term,

redundant

. Just because people share a similar aversion towards the RNG mounts does not make them "repeat comments"..

When I said "redundant," I meant one person saying precisely the same thing in ten threads. If ten people say something, that's just fine. But with ten threads attracting repeated comments

by the same person

the signal-to-noise ratio makes it harder to get an accurate feel for players' opinions.

@Freakshow.1809 said:

@Gazelle.3128 said:"Many of the comments are redundant, in that they repeat comments made in another thread"I like that term,

redundant

. Just because people share a similar aversion towards the RNG mounts does not make them "repeat comments"..

Thank god, I thought I was the only one that was triggered by that.

I was already mad enough about the RNG BS, but now they wanna bury and ignore our complaints in merged echo chambers. Getting real sick of Anets new direction lately.

I assure you that is

not

our intention. Please read up to see more.

P.S. I was setting up accounts and this posted strangely, but I think this is going to be properly set up now. Sorry for any confusion!

On the flip side, if arenanet employees even see the subject lines of 100 threads that may be "redundant" it's going to put into perspective how hot an issue it is vs 1 thread that they can easily ignore. They can justify to themselves "yeah that thread is 20 pages long but it could only be 5 very vocal people talking it it, screw em, I don't care what they think. People are buying them complaints or not."

[Carighan.6758]

With this, the game's monetization has hit a very low point.

Unlike gliders, which were pricey, mount skins are pricey and a gamble. On top of that, the majority of them just shift the dye areas around.

And though I know that these are done by different people, it adds insult to injury that while finally we're seeing bigger attempts at rebalancing via the Reaper changes and the modification to Grace of the Land, at the same time something like Mesmer clones vs phantasms vs shatter (which extends into Mirage) goes untouched and other raid buffs like Alacrity and so on continue to require two of the same class to apply because the alternative sources in Revenant are so weak.Sure, these are done by different people. But this begs the question: If these mount "skins" are what we get, and with this monetization model, can't the company use less "artists" and monetization managers and more balance developers?

Because frankly, if this is making a lot of money, I don't think I want to play this game any more. This is Activistion or Ubisoft levels of disgusting. :disappointed:

[Devildoc.6721]

@Zefiris.8297 said:I genuinely don't understand.

We had black lion chests for years.

• Black lion chests have worse RNG, with unknown odds. Here it's 1/30
• Black Lion chests can give you NOTHING, or repeats. Here, you need to buy a maximum of 30
• Black lion chests are flat out gold buying on a lottery (you either make 1k gold+ or get nuthing whatsoever) , whereas here it's just skins.

I genuinely do not understand the bubble people must be living in to think this is totally new, or worse. This is a massive improvement to what we had so far. I rather have this than Black Lion Chests.

Black Lion Keys can be earned in game, either as random drops, from map completion, and as guaranteed rewards from some personal/living story quests. It's RNG, but it can essentially cost you nothing to get a try at it.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

RNG is what makes them money, let's get this out of the way.Also people have to remember that a company has to make MONEY they do not get around by paying everyone there with cookies.People should be happy that this is one of the few games were there is 0% PAY TO WIN and is 100% OPTIONAL so don't be greedy by saying that even asking 400 gems for a skin would be to much lol.

Sorry, but it's perfectly viable to make money without RNG. Plenty of industries do it, in fact. I mean, it's not like you go to the cinema and then draw a lottery for which movie you're going to see. But you mistakenly associate people disliking the idea of RNG with the idea of them not being willing to spend money, when in reality, these two individual points are not necessarily related at all. I'm more than happy to spend 400 or even 600 gems on a new mount skin. I'm not happy to spend it on RNG, however.

And to put it bluntly, myself and others don't need to be happy with anything we don't want to be happy with, and RNG loot boxes is one of those things many of us are more than willing to speak out against.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Devildoc.6721 said:It's RNG, but it can essentially cost you nothing to get a try at it.

We do probably play different games.1 key dropped randomly from map completion or from mobs does not make keys cost zero.

Precursors could randomly drop from mobs and chests, so converting em into golds and then gems will allow you to buy skins and keys for nothing?

[Amadeus.5687]

adding my voice to the list of people that would love to buy mount skins, if I get to pick myself which ones i want!

Heck I have been waiting for mount skins to arrive and had no issuse with the way you did te halloween skins! didnt like them tho, so were just waiting for some skins id like to get! Would have instant brought one for each mount yesterday if I could pick myself, but now i wont buy any!Change this Anet, let people pick whichever skin they want, dont lock it behind a bad RNG gamble!