So, how exactly is Specter supposed to be played?

[Valisha.8650]

Power? Condi? Support? At first it was supposed to be thief's support spec, but now it seems like it's another condi dps. But even on condi dps, the rotation feels rather... confusing?

Could someone share some tips how to build/play this spec to achieve good numbers, either with healing or dps?

[Zacchary.6183]

Support and tanking. A lot of its power damage comes from shroud since each attack has a damage modifier of 1 or more, but the CDs on it make it a bit slow. Its condition damage is pretty good on scepter, but scepter does a better job at supporting, even if you go all into damage.

[Infinity.2876]

Don't do wvw support it doesn't end well you have way to many targets to support if your using scepter as the support weapon. This is because your damage seriously declines and your an easy target because stealth rodent last very long. sword might work I haven't tried 

Condi is amazingly powerful and fun even without the right gear in pve  too

 

Haven't tried power yet so you'll want it get someone else's opinion on that I'm thinking it would be good at power with a little support now and then

Edited March 24, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Valisha.8650]

Oh i should probably mention that - I am talking just about PvE

[RyuDragnier.9476]

It's supposed to play as a support or a condi build. Support wise you have a lot of alacrity pulsing with the wells along with any buffs you give out from using Siphon (the Trickery traits that give boons work with it) on an enemy. Condi wise it dishes out a LOT of torment thanks to Rot Wallow Venom (giving barriers to others gives them stacks of it allowing them to give Torment when attacking).

Snowcrows has the two builds I'd suggest the most. I personally use the Condition Alacrity build they have for Raids, Strikes, and the metas, as it can dish out a LOT of DPS even while just supporting. I suggest Plaguedoctor's for trinkets if you don't want to take the time to get Ritualist's, they work just as well.

Edited March 24, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Zacchary.6183]

49 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

Don't do wvw support it doesn't end well you have way to many targets to support

Its easy with power healac spec, but your squad has to stay on you for it to work.

[Vidit.7108]

It's best usage is condition damage and it's second best usage is condition + alacrity. 

[Valisha.8650]

2 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

It's best usage is condition damage and it's second best usage is condition + alacrity. 

any particular rotation you suggest for condi spec?

[kash.9213]

5 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Oh i should probably mention that - I am talking just about PvE

If you play for awhile you're going to probably end up with something like one of the Snowcrows builds anyway. They have a rotation up which makes sense for their mode. I like to start Mind Shock right away in Shroud though to tighten up it's blast with Grasping Shadows or something else and for the daze, but I'm playing more WvW. 

It's a condi spec that supports by projecting your defensive and offensive power through your tether or through a group depending on your traits, the order of your combos, and how you dump what you built up. Think of yourself more like a beneficial parasite maybe. You gotta be alert though and be ready to drop this and pick up that right away but you can be clutch. 

It doesn't take as long as you think to build up for a Consuming Shadows dump if you're running that. I wish all of the stuff Specter has to monitor were more Up and Central somehow but your internal clock will pick up on it anyway.

Edited March 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Overworld Build.  The strategy for this one is pretty simple:  Mash Twilight Combo, then go into shroud to use Grasping Darkness and Eternal Night until my initiative comes back.  Use Venoms and Well of Sorrow off cooldown.  I know Thousand Needles does more damage than the well, but the wait time make using preparations difficult against overworld enemies.  They're usually dead by the time the preparation finishes.  You can use Ritualist or Traiblazer stats if you need more durability, but so far that hasn't been an issue.

 

Alacrity Specter.  Though personally I prefer to use Shadowfall, since it is usually beneficial to have excess boons than to just barely maintain them.  This build uses the wells off cooldown, but otherwise it plays almost exactly like the overworld build.  Use Plaguedoctor instead of Ritualist if you want the condi healing version.  

 

Harrier Healer.  This build works by spamming Infiltrator's Strike.  It creates a massive amount of group healing, and it also can buff the group up with swiftness, fury, alacrity, and vigor.  

 

 

[Vidit.7108]

3 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

any particular rotation you suggest for condi spec?

The one snowscrows has put together is pretty much it. You don't have a lot of skills to worry about for condi specifically, Alac is different.

The basic idea is to do as much as you can with 2 and 4, auto attacking in shroud. Out of shroud reapply venoms and twilight combo initiative away until you can get back into shroud. 

https://snowcrows.com/builds/thief/specter/condition-spectre

[celestia.3829]

I play a celestial alacrity variant. Managed to bench 22k w/o allies on golem. Rotation is spam 3 and weapon swap and use utils off cooldown. When you dont have weapon swap go into shroud for weapon swap traits and shroud dps skills. Big heals , dps and cc. Lacks might generation though

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, celestia.3829 said:

I play a celestial alacrity variant. Managed to bench 22k w/o allies on golem. Rotation is spam 3 and weapon swap and use utils off cooldown. When you dont have weapon swap go into shroud for weapon swap traits and shroud dps skills. Big heals , dps and cc. Lacks might generation though

Ritualist alac is 25K w/o allies so that isn't too bad.

I would say if you want might that you should run thrill of the crime in trickery.

[celestia.3829]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

Ritualist alac is 25K w/o allies so that isn't too bad.

I would say if you want might that you should run thrill of the crime in trickery.

i do, still isnt 25 might. This build can soloheal for its sub with good dps but it needs might harbinger warrior or tempest

[Stx.4857]

Is it worth it to run aristocracy runes and use scepter 2 occasionally to boost might?

[cyberzombie.7348]

I say you have to think of it more like a TF2 medic, but focusing more on barrier output than direct heals. Also the Traversing Dark trait seems to have synergy with Shadow Savior and sc/p's Measured Shot.  So on max healing power you can pretty much get around 3k per Measured Shot, plus 1.3-1.7k on surrounding teammates from the traits.

This is what I've been using which has the heals maxed out with 3 different failsafes before getting downed: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABwitrlJwyYbsQ2IeKTlRXA-zxYYPlB9BDrGE4Zkk6qaJqdPEimGGKeV8L-e

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by cyberzombie.7348

[ASP.8093]

Right now the meta alacrity support build tries to simplify it down to an AOE support role (with reasonable personal DPS as well) that works kinda like this:

You place wells and pop any other group buffs like venoms more-or-less on cooldown.

Then you spam your best attack skills (usually just Scepter/Dagger 3) while you can afford the initiative cost.

Once you're out of initiative, you pop into shroud, stay in shroud long enough to rebuild initiative and get a few Consume Shadows stacks, then pop back out to give the group a big heal + barrier + Rot Wallow stacks.

 

With this game flow you seldom have to purposefully target allies, and there's not much of a "rotation" to sweat either. All you really need to learn to play at an okay level is how to juggle your three resources (initiative, shroud energy, skill cooldowns). It's fairly similar to the Scourge in some sense.

Edited March 26, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

It's supposed to be support. but it's pretty terrible at it.

You got power damage in shroud, but your cooldowns are so long, building power isn't worth the trouble. Additionally, the Kit does not support other weapons very well, so power is almost unusable in solo play.

 

Your primary support would be from wells. But the only note worthy support functionality you got is Alacrity (doesn't help you personally much, even in shroud), barrier, and rot wellow venom. The Alacrity only comes from the wells, so you have to mass spam wells to keep it up. Healing scaling is garbage, so you're not very good at it beyond giving barrier and using Consuming Shadows. And Rot Wallow Venom only occurs on people you give barrier too. So... with scepter you have to stop what you're doing and target someone. Or use that shadow step trait which I feel like only works half the time.

 

You can give might, but it's not worth the trouble since you can only give it effectively to a single person, and it burns through init.

Condi damage is solid, but it ramps up slowly. So you'll feel like you take forever to kill things. Especially since Torment (your primary source of damage) only deals max damage while target is stationary. And you're probably not going to be stationary, so the enemy isn't going to be stationary.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Valisha.8650]

4 minutes ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

It's supposed to be support. but it's pretty terrible at it.

You got power damage in shroud, but your cooldowns are so long, building power isn't worth the trouble. Additionally, the Kit does not support other weapons very well, so power is almost unusable in solo play.

 

Your primary support would be from wells. But the only note worthy support functionality you got is Alacrity (doesn't help you personally much, even in shroud), barrier, and rot wellow venom. The Alacrity only comes from the wells, so you have to mass spam wells to keep it up. Healing scaling is garbage, so you're not very good at it beyond giving barrier and using Consuming Shadows. And Rot Wallow Venom only occurs on people you give barrier too. So... with scepter you have to stop what you're doing and target someone. Or use that shadow step trait which I feel like only works half the time.

 

You can give might, but it's not worth the trouble since you can only give it effectively to a single person, and it burns through init.

Condi damage is solid, but it ramps up slowly. So you'll feel like you take forever to kill things. Especially since Torment (your primary source of damage) only deals max damage while target is stationary. And you're probably not going to be stationary, so the enemy isn't going to be stationary.

So its just a lackluster elite spec?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

15 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

So its just a lackluster elite spec?

It's an interesting concept. I was one of the ones that wanted a support spec for Thief so I was willing to try and like it during beta. Just execution is mediocre, and it has a lot of problems on top of some of the most severe tradeoffs I've seen.

Less Initiative to work with, forcing you to take Trickery once again and removing shortbow as a valid option (have fun when half the skills destroys your init). You lose the steal teleport and stolen skills, so mobility and engage takes a dive. You get it back via Wells which shadowsteps... but its using the old shadowstep behavior. So the slightest change in altitude causes it to fail. Additionally, the wells are slow to get out, and they are low on the priority. So low, that they will not pre-empt weapon skills... including the auto attack. Along with some traits now being unusable thanks to the loss of stolen items.

Then there are things that are just bad. Like just about everything it does has a long casttime (and tell), making Specter easily interruptible, even in shroud. Most of the influencer videos I've seen talking about the spec, usually don't offer any points of criticism to it. Which I guess is fair given many thieves do that for them already.

What's supposed to be your primary support, is only given to you in the form of single target application via weapon skills - and only for a single weapon. So when I say you have to stop what you're doing. I mean you have to stop everything that you're doing to focus on someone. And the effect isn't as strong as a firebrand just dropping an AoE. In general, it doesn't really compete with any of the supports outside of pvp 2v2. Even then... I'd feel you'd be better off with any of the other Elite Specs from thief in that scenario.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[RyuDragnier.9476]

38 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

So its just a lackluster elite spec?

I wouldn't say that. Survivability is high, support is high, condi damage is high (so high they had to nerf it), mobility is high. I'd say it is as good as Daredevil, if not better.

[Zacchary.6183]

6 hours ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

I'd say it is as good as Daredevil, if not better.

In terms of damage, there's only one comparable build and its condi. But it does have vastly more survivability than most specs in the game and its healing capability is arguably the most powerful, even if boon support is pretty bad.

[ASP.8093]

16 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

So its just a lackluster elite spec?

It's pretty dang strong in group content.

Alac on thief feels weird because it doesn't help your own attack skills much (I think I would've definitely preferred a different design that gave Quickness), but you do get considerable value out of how it speeds up Siphon (which gives you a ton of Shroud energy) and Shroud itself, which is a critical part of your rotation.

Condi emphasis on support thief just makes sense since your base classs' unique support shtick is Venom sharing.

It's ranged so it's very easy to play, like a simpler Renegade rotation.

Core traits already reward spamming the #3 skill on condi builds, and both Scepter #3 skills are great for this.

Consume Shadows is a pretty fat heal, and still has good value if everyone is at full hp. You can use it preemptively or reactively depending on the content.

The meta Ritualist-gear builds end up with like 25k hp and shroud, so you've got pretty good capacity to recover from your own mistakes.

In addition to Alac, you do provide substantial Fury (key dps boon), Swiftness (clutch with all the new "run away / run back" mechanics), and Vigor (helps PUGs avoid dying quite a lot).

Well of Bounty interacts really nicely with other supports in the group, making up for whatever they're missing. Often that will include Protection (~7 sec on a ~16 sec cooldown), another very high-value boon.

Edited March 27, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

It's pretty dang strong in group content.

Alac on thief feels weird because it doesn't help your own attack skills much (I think I would've definitely preferred a different design that gave Quickness), but you do get considerable value out of how it speeds up Siphon (which gives you a ton of Shroud energy) and Shroud itself, which is a critical part of your rotation.

Condi emphasis on support thief just makes sense since your base classs' unique support shtick is Venom sharing.

It's ranged so it's very easy to play, like a simpler Renegade rotation.

Core traits already reward spamming the #3 skill on condi builds, and both Scepter #3 skills are great for this.

Consume Shadows is a pretty fat heal, and still has good value if everyone is at full hp. You can use it preemptively or reactively depending on the content.

The meta Ritualist-gear builds end up with like 25k hp and shroud, so you've got pretty good capacity to recover from your own mistakes.

In addition to Alac, you do provide substantial Fury (key dps boon), Swiftness (clutch with all the new "run away / run back" mechanics), and Vigor (helps PUGs avoid dying quite a lot).

Well of Bounty interacts really nicely with other supports in the group, making up for whatever they're missing. Often that will include Protection (~7 sec on a ~16 sec cooldown), another very high-value boon.

 

Yeah that has been my experience in instanced content too. I have really been enjoying myself on it. 

[Bunny.9834]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:37 AM, Vidit.7108 said:

It's best usage is condition damage and it's second best usage is condition + alacrity. 

Yup, spam wells. build some shadow shroud, go on it build stack of that trait that when you leave shroud you heal people around you. rinse repeat. 

Save Siphon for insta rez.