Good job, Anet. Honestly.

[Valisha.8650]

According to statistics, engineer was the second least played class in overall playtime, and had the least amount of characters made.

Pretty sure if we took such statistics from just the last month, engi would easily be in top 5, thanks to mechanist.

Uplifting an underperforming, or underrepresented, class is always a good thing, and it is fair to say that the EoD DLC achieved it on engineer, probably on mesmer as well thanks to easy power dps, Virtuoso.

And don't even get me started on all those guardian mains, salty that their HFB finally has an at least somewhat fair competitor. Justice can be sweet.

The spec still suffers from a number of bugs, some skills canceling other skills without warning, weird mech behavior, a buggy summon/unsummon button, but all of that can be polished as time goes.

TLDR; Anet did a really good job with mechanist, now just make sure to not ruin it with some overnerf or a new seriously annoying bug.

[MrForz.1953]

Engineer never was underperforming or underrepresented, and a class always has to be last, even if it's by one player.

[Valisha.8650]

8 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

Engineer never was underperforming or underrepresented, and a class always has to be last, even if it's by one player.

Guardian - 129,654,467 hours (15.90%)

Engineer - 49,830,261 hours (6.11%)

I wouldn't call that a "by one player" difference, in all honesty. Also, i am pretty sure these people played something else instead of engi for more reasons than just, say, aesthetics.

And yes, engi was underperforming - not as dps. But as a support - heal scrapper was junk when compared to druid or hfb.

[MrForz.1953]

45 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Guardian - 129,654,467 hours (15.90%)

Engineer - 49,830,261 hours (6.11%)

I wouldn't call that a "by one player" difference, in all honesty. Also, i am pretty sure these people played something else instead of engi for more reasons than just, say, aesthetics.

And yes, engi was underperforming - not as dps. But as a support - heal scrapper was junk when compared to druid or hfb.

Beyond Efficiency not being quite accurate on the actual population, one can't tell if it's just people shifting from their bearbows and Necros (given the nature of Mechanist) or actual raiders. HFB is a major offender, not a standard, druid has nothing else beyond that specific role. Are we seriously going down the victimization path now?

[Cherubino XV.2384]

Engineer was always under represented since the launch, and I'm pretty sure that 90% of the time people who stopped using their own Engineer it was because you had to put too much effort to achieve the same as the other professions (Spamming Grenades 1 is just a burden not Skill).

 

I contributed in the update of the wiki during the first years of GW2 especially on the Engie side because it was the least played.

 

I have played all professions in PVE PVP and WVW, mechanist is comfortable in PVE and realistically doesn't Top the charts, but there is a lot of hate and Nerf pleas because, the Mechanist player doesn't have to press over 9000 keys per minute, shame on them!

 

At the end of the Day Engie is my main, but my first Engie made after leveling the Elementalist to 80 at GW2 launch, so before the elite Specs, he was deleted after 1000 hours of playtime, because after trying the other professions I asked myself what was the point in all the effort the Engie required to do the same as others, even Elementalist required less effort.

 

After trying the other professions I made a new Engie because I like the theme, he is at about 1100 hours so in total more than 2000 hours for me on Engie since the GW2 Launch, and mechanist is the saving boon the class needed when you want to relax after work doing Metas or taking a Camp alone in WVW without having to use an Alt, if an enemy comes by in WVW you better swap your build to Holo or Scrapper fast or you are probably going to lay on the floor dead quickly...

Edited March 24, 2022 by Cherubino XV.2384

[Duglaive.5236]

7 hours ago, Cherubino XV.2384 said:

 

I have played all professions in PVE PVP and WVW, mechanist is comfortable in PVE and realistically doesn't Top the charts, but there is a lot of hate and Nerf pleas because, the Mechanist player doesn't have to press over 9000 keys per minute, shame on them!

 

 

 

 

 

I have come to believe that the above statement encapsulates the real issue driving all the nerf calls. With the launch of EoD, and by no small coincidence the implementation of a bunch of sustain nerfs, we have a new elite spec that allows even the most casual of players to complete - and even solo - content that was once the province of the "most skilled" and/or those using builds that require a lot of effort for such Herculean feats. 

 

All the achievements, accolades, and rewards ... Diminished because now any pleb with a strong AI-assisted espec can supposedly do the same. So yeah, the calls for "nerf that kitten" aren't going away.

 

Thing is, neither Mechanist, or condi Ren, nor any other spec, is going to allow even a small % of players to accomplish what a player like Lord Hizen does. Or for that matter, what AliamRationem (whom has been spending some vocal time here on the engi subforum of late) can do with his fire Weaver; seriously, some of his videos are every bit as nuts as Hizen's.

 

Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, but currently it's hard for me to see this in any other light.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Duglaive.5236

[Infusion.7149]

Engineer didn't pick up til holo came around (see infamous 4 kit PVE condi rotation and projectile hate in competitive modes). Scrapper was more less useless in PVE since having more tankiness was not that helpful (similar to reaper but without the quickness) , gyro rework of 2019 helped a little but it wasn't until quickness was added in May 2021 that it became decent.

P.S. Mechanist may as well not exist underwater.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Cherubino XV.2384]

1 hour ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

I have come to believe that the above statement encapsulates the real issue driving all the nerf calls. With the launch of EoD, and by no small coincidence the implementation of a bunch of sustain nerfs, we have a new elite spec that allows even the most casual of players to complete - and even solo - content that was once the province of the "most skilled" and/or those using builds that require a lot of effort for such Herculean feats. 

 

All the achievements, accolades, and rewards ... Diminished because now any pleb with a strong AI-assisted espec can supposedly do the same. So yeah, the calls for "nerf that kitten" aren't going away.

 

Thing is, even Mechanist, or condi Ren, nor any other spec, is going to allow even a small % of players to accomplish what a player like Lord Hizen does. Or for that matter, what AliamRationem (whom has been spending some vocal time here on the engi subforum of late) can do with his fire Weaver; seriously, some of his videos are every bit as nuts as Hizen's.

 

Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, but currently it's hard for me to see this in any other light.

 

When I played PVP, I probably was one of those who found some strong Built after a big balance patch, not only on the Engineer, and smartly I didn't put a video online with BIG NUMBERS on the caption telling others "look at me my build STRONK! I can play it by licking the mouse", so I enjoyed my tactical advantage until someone craving for attention told it around and then eventually got it nerfed.

 

The nerf callers can avoid being killed by the golem, just target the engie and keep moving is it that hard?

 

Everyone plays at different skill levels, if you are a good player you always do make a difference.

 

I can't understand why there is so much nerf calls for the mechanist, I'm more then happy when I can complete a big group event without having to ress downed people 50% of the time.

 

Like Infusion wrote underwater the Mech doesn't exist you have to swap to holosmith, scrapper or core.

 

The problem is that under represented professions, not only engineer, get played more after a huge balance patch or expansion, then people start popping telling that "I don't Main this profession but I want it to be nerfed to the ground because I discovered watching a video that it can do THIS against the TEST GOLEM"

 

The problem is that the ones calling for the nerf to the golem don't understand that to counterbalance it the engineer has to be buffed in damage or sustain or utility for loosing the golem, and it will be even harder for them to fight against the engineer because the mechanist will be less reliant on AI to do what it is supposed to do.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Cherubino XV.2384

[Thornwolf.9721]

6 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Guardian - 129,654,467 hours (15.90%)

Engineer - 49,830,261 hours (6.11%)

I wouldn't call that a "by one player" difference, in all honesty. Also, i am pretty sure these people played something else instead of engi for more reasons than just, say, aesthetics.

And yes, engi was underperforming - not as dps. But as a support - heal scrapper was junk when compared to druid or hfb.

It's really the theme of engineer isn't as interesting as the other classes. It's generic in a lot of ways and to top it off scrapper and holosmith did little to really draw people to it who weren't already interested...

Mechanist however grabs attention because you get a construct, which not only appeals to any asuran player as golems are their motif but it also grabs the attention of those who like minions and those who like the more mage-tech aspect of the game. It honestly was a welcome departure from what I thought you were going to get (I was expecting harbinger to be your spec)

[LucianDK.8615]

You see so many mechs about an about, bringing quite the visibilty to engineers.     I liked playing a necromancer summoner in the past, but was always disappointed by how weak they were, as well the lack of a target/return to me button.

[Aravind.9610]

1 hour ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

You see so many mechs about an about, bringing quite the visibilty to engineers.     I liked playing a necromancer summoner in the past, but was always disappointed by how weak they were, as well the lack of a target/return to me button.

Necromancer summons are utility skills, not class mechanics, that's why they didn't get a return button. They were meant to blindly attack stuff and be expendable. Kind of like turrets on engineer but a bit stronger. Personally I would prefer if the minions were a class mechanic and did inherit stats from us so we could have a minion army. But back then they didn't want minions running all about clogging up their servers. Also tons of complaints about minions/turrets being oppressive in pvp.

At least we got mechanist now with a good pet/summon.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Aravind.9610

[LucianDK.8615]

16 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said:

Necromancer summons are utility skills, not class mechanics, that's why they didn't get a return button. They were meant to blindly attack stuff and be expendable. Kind of like turrets on engineer but a bit stronger. Personally I would prefer if the minions were a class mechanic and did inherit stats from us so we could have a minion army. But back then they didn't want minions running all about clogging up their servers. Also tons of complaints about minions/turrets being oppressive in pvp.

At least we got mechanist now with a good pet/summon.

Agreed, I know they are utility, but frustrating to use. For years they would frequently despawn and go on cd on mounting/dismount.

I think anet was afraid of a gw1 situation where you could have a huge army, and minionmancers in hot demand to cheese missions through the sheer amount of bodyblocking they could perform.

[Zil.3071]

agreed. +1  didnt even gear eng after 9 yrs ...couldnt be fckd. until mech thn now it has all pink n purple. much fun n style n utility, so please dont make it boring n useless with over nerfs. also fine tune the mech responsiveness and how it just keeps wondering around buggy

[Fueki.4753]

Do not forget that gw2efficiency does not reflect the entire playerbase and therefore means literally nothing in terms of profession representation among all players.

[ClickToKill.8473]

Engi's being the least played is more of a playstyle choice than a power choice.  Engi is one of the more complex classes in the game, IMO.  The classes that are at the top of the most played don't have much of a learning curve. 

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, ClickToKill.8473 said:

Engi's being the least played is more of a playstyle choice than a power choice.  Engi is one of the more complex classes in the game, IMO.  The classes that are at the top of the most played don't have much of a learning curve. 

This hasn't been true since the release of scrapper. Scrapper can run grenade kit and hammer and essentially be a low cooldown weapon swap class. The pacing is different to a weaponswap class but not any different. With the addition of quickness onto the traitline it is quite strong now, I usually run quickness scrapper on Vale Guardian and Keep Construct in particular.
Arguably no kit holo is the same , with photon forge being less cooldown than weaponswap and also providing barrier on corona burst for the typical PVE builds. Holosmith's overheat makes it more intensive so I wouldn't consider this to be as easy.

[Valisha.8650]

15 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Do not forget that gw2efficiency does not reflect the entire playerbase and therefore means literally nothing in terms of profession representation among all players.

Literally NO STATISTICAL RESEARCH IN HUMAN HISTORY reflects ENTIRE population pool, because that is *not* how such research works.

https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html

[ClickToKill.8473]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

This hasn't been true since the release of scrapper. Scrapper can run grenade kit and hammer and essentially be a low cooldown weapon swap class. The pacing is different to a weaponswap class but not any different. With the addition of quickness onto the traitline it is quite strong now, I usually run quickness scrapper on Vale Guardian and Keep Construct in particular.
Arguably no kit holo is the same , with photon forge being less cooldown than weaponswap and also providing barrier on corona burst for the typical PVE builds. Holosmith's overheat makes it more intensive so I wouldn't consider this to be as easy.

 

It still plays very different from the norm, since you are swapping your weapons via utility skills and not the weapon toggle.  It might be the easiest engi build to learn though. 

 

Let's not forget new players might not know that weapon swapping occurs when your weapon skills change, and could wrongfully assume engi weak because they can only have "1 weapon" in combat. 

[Jerus.4350]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

This hasn't been true since the release of scrapper. Scrapper can run grenade kit and hammer and essentially be a low cooldown weapon swap class. The pacing is different to a weaponswap class but not any different. With the addition of quickness onto the traitline it is quite strong now, I usually run quickness scrapper on Vale Guardian and Keep Construct in particular.
Arguably no kit holo is the same , with photon forge being less cooldown than weaponswap and also providing barrier on corona burst for the typical PVE builds. Holosmith's overheat makes it more intensive so I wouldn't consider this to be as easy.

You're right, both Scrapper and Holo have a much more "normal" GW2 play style, though I'd argue it wasn't until Holo that Engi got an "good simple build" because of how janky and impractical Scrapper was back then.

 

I do still think ClickToKill has a point in that Engi has always been one of the weirder/more complex professions in GW2 and unlike Ele they weren't stupidly OP for the first 4 years so people just didn't feel like learning it.  And, now we have Mechanist... 😅

 

Gotta say, I'm loving Engi even more lately (always loved it), we have so many build options.  We have simple Power DPS options with PBM Holo, or more complex ones with ECSU or maximized PBM rotations.   We have simple Condi DPS with J-Drive, or more complex options with 3-4 kits.  We have Quickness with Power Scrapper or Alacrity with Power or Condi Mechanist, and you can play either of those as a Heal role as well.  Really we have options for it all even if some aren't top tier (Scrapper healer is basically weaker Healbrand in PVE for example).  Probably need a little shaving on Condi DPS Mech and Heal Mech, but otherwise we're sitting pretty.

[Hotride.2187]

Well... the only fractal I did with a heal mech, I joined as a qfb. And I got asked to do stab as well. If engi will be a competition to hfb for fractals, more will have to change.

Healing was good though. After the heal mantra nerf I don't really trust other guards with healing... so at least the engi can do that. Though it could do that before the new specs also.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:33 PM, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

I have come to believe that the above statement encapsulates the real issue driving all the nerf calls. With the launch of EoD, and by no small coincidence the implementation of a bunch of sustain nerfs, we have a new elite spec that allows even the most casual of players to complete - and even solo - content that was once the province of the "most skilled" and/or those using builds that require a lot of effort for such Herculean feats. 

 

All the achievements, accolades, and rewards ... Diminished because now any pleb with a strong AI-assisted espec can supposedly do the same. So yeah, the calls for "nerf that kitten" aren't going away.

 

Thing is, neither Mechanist, or condi Ren, nor any other spec, is going to allow even a small % of players to accomplish what a player like Lord Hizen does. Or for that matter, what AliamRationem (whom has been spending some vocal time here on the engi subforum of late) can do with his fire Weaver; seriously, some of his videos are every bit as nuts as Hizen's.

 

Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, but currently it's hard for me to see this in any other light.

Thanks for the shout out.  Just to be clear (because some people were making it out to be me vs. Hizen).  I'm not on that level.  The guy plays every class.  I just play one or two.  I'll play in the same ballpark on weaver and mirage, but that's it!  Much respect to Lord Hizen.  He's an inspiration!

I also want to be clear that I'm not against LI builds.  If I were, I wouldn't have made this video nearly 4 years ago. However, just as I felt it was a bad call to give staff mirage free alac and might for spamming 1, I dislike the idea of a heavily AI-based spec competing for top spots as healer, boon support, and DPS.  You want DPS on engi?  You should go holosmith.  You want boon support?  Scrapper.  Mechanist shouldn't eclipse those specs, in my opinion.  If it does, they should trim it.  However, it's my hope that it always holds a spot for LI open world play, which I think is something it should do quite well, being an AI-based spec.

[Valisha.8650]

11 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Thanks for the shout out.  Just to be clear (because some people were making it out to be me vs. Hizen).  I'm not on that level.  The guy plays every class.  I just play one or two.  I'll play in the same ballpark on weaver and mirage, but that's it!  Much respect to Lord Hizen.  He's an inspiration!

I also want to be clear that I'm not against LI builds.  If I were, I wouldn't have made this video nearly 4 years ago. However, just as I felt it was a bad call to give staff mirage free alac and might for spamming 1, I dislike the idea of a heavily AI-based spec competing for top spots as healer, boon support, and DPS.  You want DPS on engi?  You should go holosmith.  You want boon support?  Scrapper.  Mechanist shouldn't eclipse those specs, in my opinion.  If it does, they should trim it.  However, it's my hope that it always holds a spot for LI open world play, which I think is something it should do quite well, being an AI-based spec.

Normally I could partially agree, but as long as the thing called firebrand exists in its current form, I will oppose any major nerf to any elite spec, ESPECIALLY support ones.

[AliamRationem.5172]

38 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Normally I could partially agree, but as long as the thing called firebrand exists in its current form, I will oppose any major nerf to any elite spec, ESPECIALLY support ones.

Oh, they absolutely need to nerf firebrand.  They've needed to nerf firebrand for years.  It's insanely overpowered and their excuse of "making room for other specs" rings hollow because they still haven't done anything about this spec dominating the support meta while also being great at everything else.

Makes you feel bad for druids.  "Sorry, druid.  You're a healer.  You only get to do one thing."  But..but...look at that firebrand!

Edited March 27, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Oh, they absolutely need to nerf firebrand.  They've needed to nerf firebrand for years.  It's insanely overpowered and their excuse of "making room for other specs" rings hollow because they still haven't done anything about this spec dominating the support meta while also being great at everything else.

Makes you feel bad for druids.  "Sorry, druid.  You're a healer.  You only get to do one thing."  But..but...look at that firebrand!

Firebrand should never have been allowed to have access to all three tomes at ones.

So, rather than simply nerfing Firebrand, they should redesign it, so that the first column of traits is the choice between the tomes.

Daredevil has to choose between the three dodges.

Vindicator has to choose between three jumps.

Junksworn has to choose between three dragon wiff adjustments.

It'd be fair, if Firebrand had to choose between the tomes as well.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[AliamRationem.5172]

32 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Firebrand should never have been allowed to have access to all three tomes at ones.

So, rather than simply nerfing Firebrand, they should redesign it, so that the first column of traits is the choice between the tomes.

Daredevil has to choose between the three dodges.

Vindicator has to choose between three jumps.

Junksworn has to choose between three dragon wiff adjustments.

It'd be fair, if Firebrand had to choose between the tomes as well.

Sounds about right.  And it might not be a bad idea if one spec didn't just do everything better than everyone else, too.  Force them to choose, but also make them good at one thing and only decent at the others.  That goes for any spec, not just firebrand.  The "best" spots should be reserved for the classes that can't perform multiple roles (i.e. selfish DPS should be top DPS, dedicated healer spec like druid should be the best healer).