Epic of Virtuoso's missing sustain..

[Nezekan.2671]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:06 AM, Mell.4873 said:

I survive far longer on my Virtuoso than I ever did on my chrono especially against bosses where clones get 1 shot.

Clones do not take damage in raids, fractals and strikes unless the boss directly targets them. They can stand in literal instant death areas and take zero damage.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Mit Nllea.8490]

Idk how you're playing, but you're doing it wrong. Condi virtuoso has pretty ridiculous sustains right now because you're leaching off of bleeds, which you're stacking lots of constantly between phantasms, critical hits, and sigils if you take them and you're 1200 range. Power virtuoso has less sustain, but you get a block on offhand sword on a short cool down, and a distortion on main hand sword on a short cool down, so if you're playing d/s and s/f you have plenty of options to cheese any big hits.

[taara.3217]

11 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Pretty sure lord hizens solo build for mirage didn't even use tormenting runes did it? 😂.

Nor did any others. 

1. LH used TR in his Mirage videos.

2. I use TR.

3. What does this have to do with LH?

Don`t understand the context of your reply - can you explain it ? Thank you.

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, taara.3217 said:

1. LH used TR in his Mirage videos.

2. I use TR.

3. What does this have to do with LH?

Don`t understand the context of your reply - can you explain it ? Thank you.

i ment i was agreeing with u as Not crucial. as im pretty certain the Mirage Solo builds Werent using Tormenting. it was just a Option

[taara.3217]

20 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i ment i was agreeing with u as Not crucial. as im pretty certain the Mirage Solo builds Werent using Tormenting. it was just a Option

Ok, thank you.

[Mell.4873]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:16 PM, Nezekan.2671 said:

Clones do not take damage in raids, fractals and strikes unless the boss directly targets them. They can stand in literal instant death areas and take zero damage.

My bad I didn't know bosses could not kill clones with anything other than a targeted attack.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Nezekan.2671]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Bosses can cleave clones, I will agree that the both greatsword and staff clones are fine but the sword ones die very easily. Not to mention the target switching problem.

Any boss that can is bugged and you should report it. Mind you this does not apply to open world bosses. Raids, fractals and strikes, specifically. Clones are immune to cleave and aoe damage in these modes, and so are ranger pets. I just did Xera yesterday and not a single clone died. They were standing on the death zone she creates and attacking her. 

[Xaylin.1860]

First, most of OPs points I just don't see as relevant for balance or true. Virtuoso is designed as glass cannon and as long it brings enough damage, this design is fulfilled. Whether one likes it or not. Also, needing Precision on condi builds is hardly a novelty. What Virtuoso lacks is synergy with core and a middle trait row.

On 4/1/2022 at 9:02 AM, crazyhusky.2985 said:

6. I feel Virtuoso lacks an identity, All it has is damage, No boons, it really needs something.

7. A fix for its defensives could be barrier or distortion. Distoration is unique to mesmar but yet... Virtuoso lacks any way of getting distortion onto it F4 shatter is now a block. So what I like to see to is, When you gain 5 stocked blades you gain distortion (1sec), Not only that there should be a trait give you boons and cleanse conditions when you get distortion, (...)

Virtuosos identity is one dimensional damage, either power or condition. However, the middle traitline could indeed be used for something like boon removal and/or CC considering this still fits an offensive playstyle.

 

Regarding Distortion, while the F4 part is true, big no from me. If anything, Mirage should be the eSpec that synergizes with Distortion (because that's basically what Mirage Cloak is...). Plus, the trait you describe already exists in Chaos. 😉

 

However, I do like the "effect on 5 blades" idea and thought about something similar before. E.g. instead of Fury on Phantasm cast, gaining Fury at 5 blades makes way more sense. 

[Levetty.1279]

23 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Virtuosos identity is one dimensional damage, either power or condition.

Problem is other elite specs can do similar DPS or spec for other roles

[Xaylin.1860]

13 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Problem is other elite specs can do similar DPS or spec for other roles

All true... I've just made my... "peace" with it. However, I still want something to happen with the middle trait line row. So one can at least branch out a little. For example, boon removal. This won't make the damage builds more exciting but I think it is safe to say that ANet won't deviate too much from the mainly damage role at this point in time.

[Barraind.7324]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:02 AM, crazyhusky.2985 said:

1.Power Virtuoso isn't friendly to open world

 

I did my Mesmer story playthrough on power virt, and it works just fine unless you're trying to play it by standing at range and throwing daggers and greatsword beams at things forever without taking trait coverage to not get blown up.

 

Greatsword is kind of overrated for power virtuoso since everything you do with daggers and blade skills pierces already, and its survivability is a knockback and a cripple, versus having a long duration distort + block + 2 leaps, one of which also cripples.  ITs advantage is range, which you are mediocre at maintaining and already have a far better engage weapon in dagger, which also gets paired with your other source of mob displacement. 

 

Dagger/focus + sword/sword gives you plenty of engage and enough blocks to survive almost anything, and you have plenty of options to play with.  You can either go with the better damage talents and maximize the defensive abilities you have, or you can drop one of them for a far more durable traitline. 

 

Inspiration 3-2-3 with illusions and ether signets fixes a lot of the specific problems mentioned (more sustain, more blocks, more condi cleanse, more shatters) and it can even make virtuoso 2-2-1 a better option than 2-2-2 if your timing is good and you're using f4 for blocks. You can even drop disenchanter for inspiration to pick up an additional distort (disenchanter outside elites and boss fights isnt amazing) if you want even more survive + buff extension. 

 

 

Condi virt sustains even better just taking jagged mind and barfing blades everywhere. 

[Thon.3780]

While Everybody complain for rune of torment got nerf

pls spotlight on Rev . 
while you are far away from mob. ( long range atk)
mob feet already kick Rev face. ( close combat)

 

anyway 

as I try this glass cannon. 
I can only say , only hit can run can make you long life.

[Xaylin.1860]

11 hours ago, Barraind.7324 said:

Dagger/focus + sword/sword gives you plenty of engage and enough blocks to survive almost anything, and you have plenty of options to play with. 

That's also my set up of choice. Countering with a fully stacked Bladesong after blocking feels very satisfying. It is way more engaging than cVirtuoso to me. My issue with pVirtuoso is that as soon as there are more than 2 or 3 enemies the defense from Aegis just doesn't cut it anymore. Which led to me not really playing it anymore at the end of my first story run.

 

As you said, cVirtuoso is more flexible in that aspect thanks to Jagged Mind even though it is way easier to play. On power I have to rely on Inspiration if I need sustain. Always. Which is a pitty considering the top line being the more defense one. 

[Thon.3780]

So which use should be good ? For sustain 

I assume health gain from bleeding ( boost condition damage)

-Torment ( Regen from shatter trait -torment )

-soulbeast

-undead

-krait.?
 

 

 

 

 

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I have been trying to make the new Elite Spec work in WvW for Zergs. And I can't.

 

And yeah, you can get more DPS, and it's nice that your F-skills can actually be used because the ammo doesn't die on spawn, but the fact remains that your DPS gain is not enough for the loss in utility trade off.

 

Which brings you back to Chronomancer Support.

 

The lack of distractions for PvE takes you back... to Power Chronomancer.

 

Like, I want to like these new E-specs I paid for, but most of them just don't compete to what came before.

[Kuma.1503]

How to have good sustain on Virtuoso.

Step 1. Run Viper + Rampager gear (enough to crit cap with fury and food)

Step 2. Literally play the condi raid build, but dont press signet of Ether.

Step 3. One shot evrrything while healing off your damage and your insane clone gen. 

 

Power Virtuoso has garbage sustsin tho. Its very unfortunate. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Zaylo.8072]

I'd like to see blade generation have a replacement effect when at max blades so that the signet of ether can continue to trigger when all your bladesongs are on cd. Additionally this would allow you to save f3-4 for when their needed instead of using them purely so you can keep generating new blades for sustain.

 

I agree that Virtuoso needs a little something extra whether thats party buffs or utility/ defenses however I do enjoy the class theme of creating phantasmal blades and adopting this sort of active sustain you get from blade generation (for condition Virtuoso atleast, i've not tried power)

[Senqu.8054]

That all traits and skills should work properly on virtuoso is the bare minimum to expect from the dev team. I think it’s no thin foil head theory anymore to say that ANet went very consciously with a soft release strategy here considering all the mechanical features are locked behind wired limitations. And I refuse to believe that such a big company has not worked out a release plan long before they showed us virtuoso. This is actively crippling a class and debugging it’s performance on paying customers.

 

This is ANet, lady’s and gentleman.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Senqu.8054

[Mell.4873]

21 hours ago, Zaylo.8072 said:

I'd like to see blade generation have a replacement effect when at max blades so that the signet of ether can continue to trigger when all your bladesongs are on cd. Additionally this would allow you to save f3-4 for when their needed instead of using them purely so you can keep generating new blades for sustain.

 

I agree that Virtuoso needs a little something extra whether thats party buffs or utility/ defenses however I do enjoy the class theme of creating phantasmal blades and adopting this sort of active sustain you get from blade generation (for condition Virtuoso atleast, i've not tried power)

You can heal?

Chrono: average dps + party Quickness
Mirage: average dps + party Alacrity
Virtuoso: average dps + party Healing

By average dps i mean 75% of class maximum.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Ombras.2853]

Virtuoso heal only makes sense in competitive play, in PvE you literally never want to choose those traits.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Virtuoso heal only makes sense in competitive play, in PvE you literally never want to choose those traits.

I do all the time, i don't really need the damage for most open world content so i might as well heal myself and other instead.

For most content I'm more liable to die rather than need a DPS check. Another nice thing is its only a 5k dps drop so for me 35k down to 30k on the golem.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Ombras.2853]

“Most content”, aka farmtrain and champ solo?

Sure, it works.

Don’t call it generic pve tho.

Like, don’t try to sell the idea it’s a good idea to use Inspiration in Raids, Strikes, Fractals, because it’s not 😉

Edited April 10, 2022 by Ombras.2853

[Mell.4873]

8 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

“Most content”, aka farmtrain and champ solo?

Sure, it works.

Don’t call it generic pve tho.

Like, don’t try to sell the idea it’s a good idea to use Inspiration in Raids, Strikes, Fractals, because it’s not 😉

I have brought it on exactly those things too, offhealer it is what it is called. Fractals especially since it can come in handy with HB somewhat being low on HPS and having to stand in a cone behind you.

I mean most alacrity Mirages slot in Inspiration due to the boon sharing, they then provide a little healing so why not Virtuoso. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Ombras.2853]

Well, you’re doing something wrong then.

I’m sorry, but in instanced content you have allies who are appointed to heal he party, so that you as a Dps class have to focus to shorten mechanics killing stuff as fast as you can.

In low level fractals you can play whatever, more like open world non end-game content, in T4 people will (rightly) kick you out if you do so.

[Levetty.1279]

Why are people so obsessed with using Inspiration on Virtuoso?