The PvP balance is probably the best it's ever been.

[Poelala.2830]

I think it's important to be positive and give credit where it's due. The balance in sPvP right now not only has some of the highest build diversity ever, but each class as at least one niche it can fill and can be played incredibly well with great efficacy. This has not always been the case. I particularly revel the fact the most overpowered builds right now ARE NOT GAME-BREAKING in the slightest. Looking back at previous expansions and the builds that tarnished the meta there really is no equivalent problem that can be pointed to today.

 

HoT was rife with bunker builds abusing cleric's amulet, knight's amulet, menders, and so on. Every support was a bunker also and was immune to 1v1's. The classes that were designed for damage did way too much, and sPvP gameplay was essentially get on a node and bunker it forever. PoF at launch had multiple 1-shot builds (mesmer, ele, ranger, thief) had some of the most over powered builds known to gw2 like launch firebrand, scourge, bunker ele, bunker prot holo. Not to mention mirage for a long time was insanely overpowered with several "degenerate" builds to boot. These builds/classes pigeonholed the game with their power creep and made it very difficult to play off-meta and be successful, unlike now. 

 

For MOST classes, you can play at least a build from at least 2 stages of the game (core, HoT, PoF, EoD) and find success. Ele can still play weaver, tempest, and now cata. Necro can play core, reaper, or harbinger. Guardian can play DH, core, or willbender. Rev can play herald or vindicator. Thief can play specter or daredevil. Engineer can play holo or mechanist. Warrior can play core (yes, core) or bladesworn. Ranger can play untamed, core, and soulbeast. All the while competing in gold 3 and higher. 

 

While balance is not perfect and there are a lot of changes I'd like to see as a player, nothing in this current meta is as game-breaking as cleric ele, launch firebrand, seeker mesmer, etc.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Same kitten, different day. Balance is not getting better, it’s just a different type of bad than it was during hot/pof.

[Hotride.2187]

Makes me wonder why spvp is still half dead.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Absolutely 100% factually correct without a shadow of a doubt.

People are spoiled want to play this 'video game', but all you really need is the video part.

Its less work this way. Less stress.

 

CmC blessed this thread. 🙏

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Poelala.2830 said:

I think it's important to be positive and give credit where it's due. The balance in sPvP right now not only has some of the highest build diversity ever, but each class as at least one niche it can fill and can be played incredibly well with great efficacy. This has not always been the case. I particularly revel the fact the most overpowered builds right now ARE NOT GAME-BREAKING in the slightest. Looking back at previous expansions and the builds that tarnished the meta there really is no equivalent problem that can be pointed to today.

I disagree, I've played power Mesmer since core and it has almost never felt worse than now, sure it is easier to survive on off-meta builds but the "new" (since feb patch) problem is having impact. That is why I don't play inspiration for example, because you have so little impact even if you do survive.

Quote

HoT was rife with bunker builds abusing cleric's amulet, knight's amulet, menders, and so on. Every support was a bunker also and was immune to 1v1's. The classes that were designed for damage did way too much, and sPvP gameplay was essentially get on a node and bunker it forever. PoF at launch had multiple 1-shot builds (mesmer, ele, ranger, thief) had some of the most over powered builds known to gw2 like launch firebrand, scourge, bunker ele, bunker prot holo. Not to mention mirage for a long time was insanely overpowered with several "degenerate" builds to boot. These builds/classes pigeonholed the game with their power creep and made it very difficult to play off-meta and be successful, unlike now. 

Yes early HoT and much of PoF sucked. Core and end of HoT was better though.

Quote

For MOST classes, you can play at least a build from at least 2 stages of the game (core, HoT, PoF, EoD) and find success. Ele can still play weaver, tempest, and now cata. Necro can play core, reaper, or harbinger. Guardian can play DH, core, or willbender. Rev can play herald or vindicator. Thief can play specter or daredevil. Engineer can play holo or mechanist. Warrior can play core (yes, core) or bladesworn. Ranger can play untamed, core, and soulbeast. All the while competing in gold 3 and higher. 

In gold 3 you can compete with anything and have always been able to. Core engi, core mesmer, berserker, whatever.

Quote

While balance is not perfect and there are a lot of changes I'd like to see as a player, nothing in this current meta is as game-breaking as cleric ele, launch firebrand, seeker mesmer, etc.

What do you mean by seeker Mesmer? And when do you mean that clerics ele was game-breaking?

Also even if the thesis of this thread were true, it misses the point of what makes a game good in my opinion. Need to write a post on that at some point.

Edited April 16, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Stand The Wall.6987]

everyone got spoiled and carried by op builds now they're mad they're gone. theres still some nonsense, but you're right not nearly as bad as it once was.

[Myror.7521]

@Stand The Wall.6987 If you mean that mechanist, bladesworn, harbringer arent build carry then probably yes it is a good Balance xd.

[Senqu.8054]

2 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

everyone got spoiled and carried by op builds now they're mad they're gone. theres still some nonsense, but you're right not nearly as bad as it once was.

Developers deleted skills, traits, effects and whole mechanics till some classes have less then to core times and a specific part of this community is still celebrating this move. No words anymore, seriously. Maybe we should move the PvP arena to the super adventure box, yes?

[Hotride.2187]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Absolutely 100% factually correct without a shadow of a doubt.

People are spoiled want to play this 'video game', but all you really need is the video part.

Its less work this way. Less stress.

 

CmC blessed this thread. 🙏

AAA game devs know this.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

11 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

AAA game devs know this.

How do you think CmC blessed this thread?

[Lucentfir.7430]

3 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Absolutely 100% factually correct without a shadow of a doubt.

People are spoiled want to play this 'video game', but all you really need is the video part.

Its less work this way. Less stress.

 

CmC blessed this thread. 🙏

My guilty confession is I am indeed spoiled for wanting to play a video game, but I will settle for video only because that's what is willed.  Praise be blessed CmC. 🙏

 

 

3 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

everyone got spoiled and carried by op builds now they're mad they're gone. theres still some nonsense, but you're right not nearly as bad as it once was.

There's always been OP/Strong builds since core and they still exist now, the only difference to current times is that they just keep removing/nuking tools to help you manage them, along with repeated whine nerfing for classes people don't want to deal with. All it took for "not as bad as it once was" was removing 70% of the build customization via  amulets, runes, and sigils , accompanied with bad blanket changes, and chugging along the nerf train without really buffing anything for a long period of time, and balancing around that. 

[Carnage.6751]

Dude you missed to April 1th.Really if this is best balance you ever seen that means this is one of the worst mmorpg ever.You saying bunker meta not viable when guardians sitting on node and soaking all enemy damage?I thought Reapers was busted and stupid.Anet release Harbinger and skill cap went lower.Just Stay in enemy and push one button and lift and succ all enemy hp.This is the Best Balance?Anet first give Necromancers a shroud and now specter have second life bar.What kinda weed they smoking man?I'm a mesmer player and even Virtuoso is a terrible class compare to others.What kinda variation you talking about?Necromancers and guardians invade to meta.

[Zekent.3652]

5 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 If you mean that mechanist, bladesworn, harbringer arent build carry then probably yes it is a good Balance xd.

No sure about the others, but bladesworn a carry build? it's just a selfsustain build lol, doesn't have the constant damage and fluidity as the other "carrys", just see mATs, you rather preffer to run another pHerald than a bladesworn.

And on soloQ, things doesn't changes that much to be a "carry".

Edited April 16, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I wouldnt be surprised if this diversity disappears once people have a better understanding of the new specs. Untamed makes core ranger obsolete. Catalyst makes core ele even more worthless and replaces weaver. Bladesworn is better than spellbreaker, berserker, and core warrior in every way. Harbinger is just a better reaper. Mechanist makes every other side noder obsolete... Most of these specs are just power creep in the form of weird gimmicks that are more annoying than anything.

[Lonecap.4105]

Yeah I’m not so sure I agree about diversity being good, old specs are largely being eclipsed by tanky EoD builds. Have you fought a good player on Spectre? 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

5 hours ago, Senqu.8054 said:

Developers deleted skills, traits, effects and whole mechanics till some classes have less then to core times and a specific part of this community is still celebrating this move. No words anymore, seriously. Maybe we should move the PvP arena to the super adventure box, yes?

i know wars and rangs are still mad, scrapper and firebrand are still weak and scourge is still a complete wreck of a spec but everyone else is doing ok.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

4 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

There's always been OP/Strong builds since core and they still exist now, the only difference to current times is that they just keep removing/nuking tools to help you manage them, along with repeated whine nerfing for classes people don't want to deal with. All it took for "not as bad as it once was" was removing 70% of the build customization via  amulets, runes, and sigils , accompanied with bad blanket changes, and chugging along the nerf train without really buffing anything for a long period of time, and balancing around that. 

there aren't broken specs like there were at other expac launches. eod is incredibly tame compared to hot and pof. funny how you skipped that. do you think people would be ok with menders, sage, deadshot and knights amulet back in the game? some of the sigils were broken too. anet should find a way to bring back more stuff they removed but some shouldn't come back.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Poelala.2830]

3 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I wouldnt be surprised if this diversity disappears once people have a better understanding of the new specs. Untamed makes core ranger obsolete. Catalyst makes core ele even more worthless and replaces weaver. Bladesworn is better than spellbreaker, berserker, and core warrior in every way. Harbinger is just a better reaper. Mechanist makes every other side noder obsolete... Most of these specs are just power creep in the form of weird gimmicks that are more annoying than anything.

I agree with untamed and catalyst being the best versions of their class, but bladesworn cannot compare to core war's ability to teamfight. Harbinger is definitely not "just a better reaper". There is a direct tradeoff and they are equal. Mechanist actually LOSES a lot of matchups that, for example, specter condi does not and there is still side node diversity. Every expac gives power creep but it's nowhere near the level of previous expansions.

[Poelala.2830]

3 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Yeah I’m not so sure I agree about diversity being good, old specs are largely being eclipsed by tanky EoD builds. Have you fought a good player on Spectre? 

I have fought rank 1 specters and best of the best title holder specters. Catalyst beats power specter pretty handedly but loses generally to condition specters, which is okay because the cata build I play isn't designed for duels but condition specter is. A good d/p daredevil would absolutely win vs either of my builds, or at least not die.

[Poelala.2830]

4 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

Dude you missed to April 1th.Really if this is best balance you ever seen that means this is one of the worst mmorpg ever.You saying bunker meta not viable when guardians sitting on node and soaking all enemy damage?I thought Reapers was busted and stupid.Anet release Harbinger and skill cap went lower.Just Stay in enemy and push one button and lift and succ all enemy hp.This is the Best Balance?Anet first give Necromancers a shroud and now specter have second life bar.What kinda weed they smoking man?I'm a mesmer player and even Virtuoso is a terrible class compare to others.What kinda variation you talking about?Necromancers and guardians invade to meta.

I devour guardians alive on all the builds I play. What guardian can sustain through an extended 1v1 or 1v2 while holding cap? none. Harbinger is very strong and is in need of some NERFS I agree but it isn't game-breakingly strong.

[Poelala.2830]

Before mesmer mains continue to complain/retort to my post... notice how I never said mesmer in my statement of current builds being good?

[Lucentfir.7430]

3 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

there aren't broken specs like there were at other expac launches. eod is incredibly tame compared to hot and pof. funny how you skipped that. do you think people would be ok with menders, sage, deadshot and knights amulet back in the game? some of the sigils were broken too. anet should find a way to bring back more stuff they removed but some shouldn't come back.

Very big brain to just go from there aren't broken specs, to there are very tame broken OP/Strong specs compared to the previous in one swoop. I didn't skip anything. Again all it took was again taking away a large portion of customization from the players and a choo choo nerf train and some very snug (poorly implemented) blanket changes.  Frankly we should just continue reduce the amulet pool  more, no reason to add amulets back since we've come so far with 'good' balancing. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

1 hour ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Very big brain to just go from there aren't broken specs, to there are very tame broken OP/Strong specs compared to the previous in one swoop. I didn't skip anything. Again all it took was again taking away a large portion of customization from the players and a choo choo nerf train and some very snug (poorly implemented) blanket changes.  Frankly we should just continue reduce the amulet pool  more, no reason to add amulets back since we've come so far with 'good' balancing. 

i didnt say there aren't broken specs now, i said there aren't broken specs like there were at other expac launches and the builds that were previously broken are mostly gone. i didn't mention eod or the current balance iteration. don't try to change what i said.

[Khalisto.5780]

I think top builds from eod are oversustaining for the dmg they have, nerfing it a bit and not touch the dmg is the way.

 

 

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i didnt say there aren't broken specs now, i said there aren't broken specs like there were at other expac launches and the builds that were previously broken are mostly gone. i didn't mention eod or the current balance iteration. don't try to change what i said.

So what exactly are you trying to say then, in regards top me skipping over a detail? There's new broken specs but they're not broken like broken HoT and PoF specs (But clearly still broken?). Broken is broken, OP is OP no matter how you slice it, and you want to comment about people being spoiled and getting carried by OP builds? What exactly changed? I'm not changing what you said, that's exactly what you're saying.