Gw2 Pay to Win or Skill to Win, Core Buids Outdated.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 4/26/2022 at 10:19 PM, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

Core builds, once feared, now obsolete and useless in WvW, and PvP.

They are your "starter" class, elites are your "advanced" class. 

  

On 4/26/2022 at 11:54 PM, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

Yes and now its time to make CORE ELITES equal in power. 

Waste of development time. They wasted 2-3 years of class development time on this during Pof.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Gotejjeken.1267]

They're aware, which is why things like warrior banner and ranger spirits are getting a look at.  Both are core features.  

[Oraxis.9705]

22 hours ago, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

1: I roam, and I prefer to scout and roam at the same time. Many roamers would agree, there are classes of roamers, and I roam on my Core Ranger. Its a stealth trap ranger, and fun, but when I come up against other roamers of the new variant such as the ele EOD meta type, or Necro, its best to stun them, and run. I stand literally no chance. I've hit them with double everything I had, every CC i had, and still couldn't get their health down to 75%, and they do 2 hits on me and I'm dead. This type of game play isn't fair at all. I'm no whiner, but my level of frustration has been boiling for "years" This isn't from just a few skirmishes and felt like ranting, this has been boiling over from years of anet creating an imbalance of builds. I'm seriously angry about this and you should too. 

2: The 1 shot kills have been around forever, but no contest, the skills in the new meta are just so powerful even the weak skills can 1 shot me, instant down or even instant KO. The Sniper Assassins are the exception because of their glass design, however the wars, guards, eles, revs, every class from literally EOD has 1 shot kill skills, and my core ranger, it takes like 5 minutes to kill some players like that. Its gotten to the point sometimes they will PM me and praise my success for using a core build and taking them down, which is sad. Being complimented for all the wrong reasons says alot about the difference in strength and isnt right. Anet should be ashamed of themselves. 

Look, I hate myself for saying this but this is a skill issue. Core ranger is still a very effective roaming scout and with the right loadout and skill you can take down just about anything. It comes down to counters, positioning,  and timing. I always ran, and often still do, greatsword longbow with survival skills. You need to read your opponent and react accordingly. And quite frankly if you can't burst on a ranger you need to reevaluate your gear and skills because ranger burst is incredibly powerful. Soulbeast in my opinion is the superior roamer and pick squad but frankly thats to be expected because it requires an additional skill check and base ranger is probably the easiest and most forgiving class to play. Also, how do you account for how powerful and, in the right hands, downright disgusting core thieves can be as WvW roamers?

 

To respond to the obvious retort that I'm skirting the issue, expansions are not and have never been described as pay to win by anyone save yourself. There is a natural period where new subclasses border on overpowered because as much as they might try, playtesters can't pinpoint how us players will break the game and find overpowered ways to use new things. 

 

Tldr: this is frankly either a skill or loadout problem. Look at *how* EoD specs are beating you and when you see one try to counter.

[Kal.7825]

Im just gonna say as someone with many pvp titles and thousand’s upon thousands of hours, you are definitely not a skilled player. Its that simple. Just reading your opinion on the matter shows that you dont like losing and you will reach to even the most incredibly stupid reasoning to prove yourself 

[porkfillets.4507]

It’s not pay to win, the entire point of the game moving to a F2P market was to bring more players to the game and encourage them to buy the game to get the perks that come with it. It’s hardly like it’s pay to win, I don’t have EOD but my HoT dragon hunter guardian build is still the meta for a power dps guardian. That’s now 6.5 years and going of that build being relevant for a single purchase. Ultimately I’m glad they restrict f2p players, they shouldn’t have builds that are on par without great skill otherwise what is the point in me paying for the game? What was the point in me buying the game 10 years ago? Like your talking as if people have to spend thousands to unlock new builds, you can buy all expansions for £43 as a new player coming to the game. That is buttons. Not to mention once you buy them, your not automatically op, you still need to unlock the builds, build the specs, and learn how to play the build. Hardly sounds like buy to win, more like buy to spend time learning a new build that could be effective if you play it right and get all the gear you need to run it and unlock the traits for it in game. 

[Nakasz.5471]

Sorry buddy, but why the hell would elite specs be weaker than core builds???????? If it's an elite spec, it must be better. Also, it has a lot of interesting content and builds that you can create to play in pvp with other elite specs, buying the expansion will make you like the game even more.

Another point, do you think devs work for free? Developing a game costs money, a lot of money. They have already given away ALL living seasons (return achievements and now ls 1) for free. What else do you want? You should be ashamed of yourself for creating such a topic.

Anyway, Another cry baby topic on the forum. Open the wallet, buy the expansion and, before calling gw 2 p2w try a real p2w game before crying on the forum.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Nakasz.5471

[EMIXAM.5034]

I dunno man, while true for a lot of builds, I still saw some core warrior breaking backs left and right...

 

Also I wouldnt call an expansion "pay 2 win" except if EVERYTHING beforehand is rendered significantly obsolete. And as every FB will tell you, it's not the case lol

[ASP.8093]

On 4/26/2022 at 10:19 PM, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

Core builds, once feared, now obsolete and useless in WvW, and PvP. Its either buy new content or stand no chance against new meta builds. I know pvp isn't like that, but wvw is. PvP is pretty equal with talent required game play, however WvW, no matter what you do to your characters as far as armor, runes, sigils, and build for core builds they stand no chance against new meta builds unless you use extreme tactics, skill, and trickery. Ambushes, stealth, pulls, stuns, disabling, seems like my only chance to shut down and kill some of the new META classes. 

 

There are so many things that anger me about gw2, that I could make 10-15 more threads about them but I'm not usually a complainer. I stay in my corner and keep quiet but my level of frustration has peaked. I love core builds, and hate some of the new classes. But why should I move to a new class just to be more powerful? Why cant Anet keep them even in power? 

It's rather funny that you're posting this after an expansion that didn't really alter the WvW zerg meta at all.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Core Terrormancer would like a word with you.

I've also had better mileage with core warrior than berserker while roaming since Feb2020 patch.

[ASP.8093]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:58 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

If it's balanced so the best spec comes from the latest expansion, that means you have to pay to compete. Not just once as buy to play would imply, but every time there is an xpac. So, pay to win.

But this transparently _isn't_ the case with EoD. If all you've got is PoF or HoT, you're still able to run top-dog builds in most of the professions. Most often, that $30 you spent back in 2019 or 2015 is still enough to keep you meaningfully "competitive" today. Even as the power level of a lot of builds fluctuates up and down, they clearly aren't just looking to make all the old stuff trash just to make you buy an expansion.

 

And the details of the OP's complaint boils down to "some of these new specs are bad matchups for me." But that doesn't necessarily mean they're overtuned on the whole — it may just as readily mean that the new espec makes a change (such as trading sustain for mobility) that's particularly good against whatever they're running. There's lots of ways you could make a class stronger against longbow rangers but weaker in roaming overall, for example (consider a build with tons of reflection and gap closers but no meaningful condi cleanse — lackluster in the roaming meta overall but a solid counter to the longbow ranger; conversely, consider how much a build with a massive amount of Aegis and melee-range Blind/Weakness spam but limited mobility would be a sitting duck against that same pew-pew sniper).

[Cem.1702]

Sorry little buddy. I am going beat you up instantly whenever I see you in my range. See, I am the ELITE, meaning my specs are ELITE, whereas you have core specs probably because you are a pleb from some kittenhole country the economy of which I feed upon as an ELITE civilized member of society.

 

If you try really hard and find a way to beat my Harbinger with some core spec build I might start another war in the vicinity of your puny economy and buy another few expansions that are coming soon for me while your currency plummets into the depths of hell. Then your only option will be to spend your life savings if you want to have any chance against me, pleb.

 

/s

[Aphandra.9672]

My little perspective - I understand the p2w element some people describe, and that the game should offer new specs, and they are hard to balance, and loyal players want something new, and...

However, what if I like how a core spec plays?
Is it a sin to just enjoy being an archer (core ranger) or mage (core elementalist)?
I most usually played archer in all RPGs until a few years ago I started the sparkling classes as well.

I don't know whether you're talking about 2-5% clear speed or burst vs sustain stuff, but normally core builds are rated rather low on build sites so I assume otherwise.

This post is not about me, there is virtually zero chance I'll ever get near anything serious in this game, it's about the concept. And being able to stick to a spec while exploring, hunting, playing the story.

[charrboiledeggs.8164]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:26 PM, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

Pay to keep Anet employees working.  

 

I still use core builds in wvw from time to time just because some are fun to play.  What I find is that a lot of people don't know how to react to them and the fight goes my way.  

 

"Powerful" is misleading.  Equal skill, the better build or better class matchup will take the win, but its pretty rare that the skill is equal.  Good players adjust.  

if anet wouldn't have messed up their own game we wouldnt have to pay to keep them employed lol. That wouldnt even be a factor we would be amusing.

[charrboiledeggs.8164]

4 minutes ago, Aphandra.9672 said:

Is it a sin to just enjoy being an archer (core ranger) or mage (core elementalist)?

yes, yes it is. Jail time for you. popo called and on the way.

[Riba.3271]

Honestly, I do not mind core builds being obsolete. Elite specs are just more interesting and have more weapon choices. I think anyone who finds "backstab 20k" gameplay after 10 years fun is kind of messed up in the head.

What Id like to see however is a system where you can get elite spec in addition to 3 core traitlines. Basically make Cores even more obsolete by watering down core traitlines a bit so damage or sustain doesn't become overwhelming, then change to a system with 1 elite spec + 3 core traitlines.

I just think we get too many QoL and story changes these days. I want to see some bigger changes that shake whole system up between expansions.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:19 AM, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

Core builds, once feared, now obsolete and useless in WvW, and PvP. Its either buy new content or stand no chance against new meta builds. I know pvp isn't like that, but wvw is. PvP is pretty equal with talent required game play, however WvW, no matter what you do to your characters as far as armor, runes, sigils, and build for core builds they stand no chance against new meta builds unless you use extreme tactics, skill, and trickery. Ambushes, stealth, pulls, stuns, disabling, seems like my only chance to shut down and kill some of the new META classes. 

 

There are so many things that anger me about gw2, that I could make 10-15 more threads about them but I'm not usually a complainer. I stay in my corner and keep quiet but my level of frustration has peaked. I love core builds, and hate some of the new classes. But why should I move to a new class just to be more powerful? Why cant Anet keep them even in power? 

failed thread once more... the new classes matter not in Wvw, they aren't good in largescale.

 

idk how u exactly get it wrong, bc the new classes perform way better in spvp than they do in Wvw... lmfao. in largescale Wvw, they do zero, nothing, nada. deadweight.

 

further, there are no "new meta" classes. meta only changed in terms of kicking spellbreaker out of "useful" terms...

 

even if u compare... for largescale, core necro and core guard are far better than anything the EoD specs can provide damagewise.

 

edit: and even IF u did mean roaming only... then u talk about a system which never had rules. and roaming is sorta dead, it's mostly ganking or massively clouding. the amounts of time u find roamers who really come alone somewhere without a ganker parade of 3-4 people behind them, that's like 1 in 10000 encounters probably. so, imo this kinda fighting scenario barely matters in Wvw, idk.

Edited April 28, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[Tao Wayfarer.5083]

This is my first post in the forum after...  how long did GW1 come out? Anyways the community responses to this thread, especially after page 3 is golden and it's one reason why I'm still casually playing both games so many years later.  The return on investment is incredible because of these people.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Tao Wayfarer.5083
Edited for typo

[Virus.3501]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:58 AM, RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136 said:

So you came here to shut my thread down, and call my comments names. Instead you are part of the problem and why this has never been fixed. I see you've made many posts, you must be a regular troll, or do you contribute to the benefit of the community in some manor

1. oxymoron

   /ˌɒksɪˈmɔːrɒn/

   noun

   1. a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).

       

      Sorry just had to add that as that person pointed out that you don't have core elites only core or elite 

      Back to discussion I have an elite spec and I have been playing for as long as this game has been released, and going to be honest me with my condi fb and condi virtu (both snowcrow build) do less damage than some of the core players I have played with and against because they also know their class intimately, 

       

      The problem is and this is how I feel as core class you have 5 specs to work with with quite a bit of customization when we get to elite you have to choose 2 of the 5 as well as 1 of the 3 elite spec which means by the time you learn that build and what works well and what doesn't you have played let's say another month or so so you as a player increased your knowledge about game mechs some more. 

       

      I see this a lot people who uses lvl 80 boost to get to elite specs me included suffer quite a bit especially when it is your first lvl 80 or first of that class as you do not learn your class core mechanics which no matter what people tell you is the base of all the elite specs I mean take for instance guardian all of them grant boons, protection and cause burning they just differ in the thing they specialize in for instance DH hits hard and cause burning FB grants boons and cause burning wb cause burning core guardian jack of all trades master of none

      Mesmer the same virtu uses blades and cause bleeding, mirage uses clones to cause confussuin, chrono has quite a bit of boon uptime core mesmer can do all of those just don't have any specific specialty I see a lot of builds that use core skills and specs with an elite for just the weapon they use that is all. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Virus.3501
Had a error

[Dawdler.8521]

9 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

even if u compare... for largescale, core necro and core guard are far better than anything the EoD specs can provide damagewise.

Is that why there are only scourges and firebrands in largescale, because core guard and core necro are far better?

I guess it makes sense.

Somehow.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Is that why there are only scourges and firebrands in largescale, because core guard and core necro are far better?

I guess it makes sense.

Somehow.

ur really a genious... neither FB nor scourge are EoD specs, are they? they fill specific roles that other specs just are not able to - if the other specs of the same class could, then anet woulda just done some copypaste on those, idk if u want that really 😛

 

also i added "damagewise" - FB has zero dmg output potential really, unless u play against literally karmatrainbots. scourge only has peak dmg if your squad is really bad and/or u run specific builds for that (which is often not necessary but optionally possible and still less than a core necro can do)

 

and dmg power guard is a good alternative to dh, as later only pays off on direct clash

Edited April 29, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136]

On 4/28/2022 at 3:38 AM, Kal.7825 said:

Im just gonna say as someone with many pvp titles and thousand’s upon thousands of hours, you are definitely not a skilled player. Its that simple. Just reading your opinion on the matter shows that you dont like losing and you will reach to even the most incredibly stupid reasoning to prove yourself 

As a person also with tens of thousands of hours pvping, and wvw'ing, I can say for certain I know my class very well, and 9 years playing gw1, with GWAMM under my belt. Its not my skill, its my build power ratings, and ineffectiveness to cause enough damage to the other player. They have double or more my hit power, and strength. They do 3 times the dps. My build has been nerfed like 10 times over the past 6 yrs because it was so strong, and people whined about it. It was once so OP, I could do a instant 30k spike cdps but 30 k is nothing now. It used to be massive  damage, but 40 k 1 shots is now the norm. While my 30 k cdps dwindled in power down to 7 k cdps. Anet has ruined my once feared and fun build.

[RUB RUB RUB RUBZ.9136]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:50 PM, Tao Wayfarer.5083 said:

This is my first post in the forum after...  how long did GW1 come out? Anyways the community responses to this thread, especially after page 3 is golden and it's one reason why I'm still casually playing both games so many years later.  The return on investment is incredible because of these people.

Do you mean the nayhaters or ones who support my post?

[Junkpile.7439]

Core specs are fine. You can feel superior when you play one and see all noob elite spec abusers. If you kill elite spec player you have right to whisper him and gloat.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Junkpile.7439