The Boz.2038 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 WHY DOES IT STILL HAVE STEALTH!? Really, ANet, why? Why does this rune need stealth AND superspeed? What is the upside? Can anyone rationalize ANet's hesitance when it comes to removing stealth from this rune? 2 5 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Nerfing it to 1 second means it's mostly there as a detarget now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Lololololol! DH was pretty meme before against newbs. Now it's just a meme to itself 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: WHY DOES IT STILL HAVE STEALTH!? Really, ANet, why? Why does this rune need stealth AND superspeed? What is the upside? Can anyone rationalize ANet's hesitance when it comes to removing stealth from this rune? Trap builds were already mediocre before, now they are 100% dead. Exactly how un-usable does a spec need to be before you're happy? 7 8 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Trap builds were already mediocre before, now they are 100% dead. Exactly how un-usable does a spec need to be before you're happy? It's ANet. They love killing things that are already dead. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Trap builds were already mediocre before, now they are 100% dead. Exactly how un-usable does a spec need to be before you're happy? Just a news flash : this has been happening for the past 3 years…builds becoming useless due to numerical nerfs. You’re late but welcome to the party. Have a seat with the other ghosts in the build graveyard. 4 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik.3401 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) Whilst it’s nice to see one of the most degenerate mechanics is practically gone, it is strange they didn’t alter it to make it usable in other ways. for now it’s just another item thrown into a huge garbage pile of killed traits, gear and mechanics. Nothing like killing your own content devs good job! Edited May 10, 2022 by Mik.3401 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: Just a news flash : this has been happening for the past 3 years…builds becoming useless due to numerical nerfs. You’re late but welcome to the party. Have a seat with the other ghosts in the build graveyard. You say that as if I was unaware that many builds have been nerfed out of existence over the last few years. And DH-Trapper was not a build I regularly played. Its removal is only beneficial to me. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Look its opposite day! They removed so many things from the gamemode that could have been balanced... but the one thing that clearly needs a deletion, they attempt to balance. What I do not get is after years of statistics about winrates, ruined/memed monthlies, endless player frustration and flamewars both ingame and on the forums... what the hell changed? Why now? If it was fine for the last 3 years, it is fine now. That said, good riddance. Anything that makes trapper, minion master, and turret builds meta needs to be crushed to dust by the repeated strikes of the nerfbat. These kinds of builds need to be bad. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) It's fine tho dh will still function at the level which it functioned before im just more happy that the degen trap ranger that build with a million dodges and trap stealth is gone Edited May 10, 2022 by felix.2386 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said: Look its opposite day! They removed so many things from the gamemode that could have been balanced... but the one thing that clearly needs a deletion, they attempt to balance. What I do not get is after years of statistics about winrates, ruined/memed monthlies, endless player frustration and flamewars both ingame and on the forums... what the hell changed? Why now? If it was fine for the last 3 years, it is fine now. That said, good riddance. Anything that makes trapper, minion master, and turret builds meta needs to be crushed to dust by the repeated strikes of the nerfbat. These kinds of builds need to be bad. Yeah, this is the strangest thing about this. That they do it now, when nobody is playing it, but didn't do anything 2 years ago when burn-DH was tearing up tournaments. Or SEVEN years ago, when trap-thief was trolling everyone. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yeah, this is the strangest thing about this. That they do it now, when nobody is playing it, but didn't do anything 2 years ago when burn-DH was tearing up tournaments. Or SEVEN years ago, when trap-thief was trolling everyone. Because stronger builds existed to compete with them (annihilate them to be honest). But everything was nerfed and all you had were these derpy builds that still actually functioned, and they filled that vacancy. Edited May 10, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: Because stronger builds existed to compete with them (annihilate them to be honest). But everything was nerfed and all you had were these derpy builds that still actually functioned, and they filled that vacancy. That isn't true though. Trapper-Thief and Trap-Burn-DH weren't muscled out by other stuff in the meta, and somehow came out on top when everything else was nerfed. They were explicitly targeted with nerfs at the time to remove them. Thief had its traps changed to preparations, burn-DH had its burning cut in half. When in both cases the obvious fix would have been an ICD on trapper rune. So why was that not an acceptable fix then, when it was seriously needed, but now when it's not a hot topic it suddenly gets done? I'm not complaining, it's just.... bizarre. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: That isn't true though. Trapper-Thief and Trap-Burn-DH weren't muscled out by other stuff in the meta, and somehow came out on top when everything else was nerfed. They were explicitly targeted with nerfs at the time to remove them. Thief had its traps changed to preparations, burn-DH had its burning cut in half. When in both cases the obvious fix would have been an ICD on trapper rune. Trap DH was not a thing for many years aside from early HOT. Stealth trap DH was easily countered by many things back then. Trap thief was never a thing either…it was a meme build, because back then (and somewhat still today) Daredevil DP was what won games…not meme condi-trap thieves (lol) Edited May 10, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: Trap DH was not a thing for many years aside from early HOT. Stealth trap DH was easily countered by many things back then. Trap thief was never a thing either…it was a meme build, because back then (and somewhat still today) Daredevil DP was what won games…not meme condi-trap thieves Yikes, swing and a miss dude. You've clearly missed out on some stuff. Burn-DH with trapper rune was THE hot topic build dominating tournaments just over a year ago. And trapper-rune DH was also all through HoT and PoF guardian's only real WvW roaming build. Trap-thieves were the #1 complained about build in WvW roaming back in 2014/5, and only got removed once they started solo-ing raid bosses. This is before Daredevil was even released. People have been complaining about trapper runes literally non-stop since they were introduced back in..... 2014? Through to today. Thats what I find so odd. Why now? Again, not complaining, just bemused. The amount of bending over backwards they've done to keep this rune alive is unreal, nerfing and changing literally every other aspect of these builds other than the rune. I can only conclude that it was someone at ANets pet project and they were reluctant to let it go. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: People have been complaining about trapper runes literally non-stop since they were introduced back in..... 2014? Through to today. Thats what I find so odd. Why now? Again, not complaining, just bemused. The amount of bending over backwards they've done to keep this rune alive is unreal, nerfing and changing literally every other aspect of these builds other than the rune. I can only conclude that it was someone at ANets pet project and they were reluctant to let it go. I wonder the same thing sometimes. Speculation: The balance devs got it into their head that they should wait for the meta to shake out before balancing (true) but end up waiting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long - years rather than weeks. There are no balance devs. It's like 1 person who gets 1 day per quarter to attempt to fix stuff, and they do what they can. The devs are disconnected from the actual play of the game, so they don't know what is a priority But I've seen interviews, and their balance notes often imply that they have been paying attention, so it's always baffling how glacial the pace of balance can be. Things can be left in an unusable (or ridiculously OP) state for years. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yikes, swing and a miss dude. You've clearly missed out on some stuff. Burn-DH with trapper rune was THE hot topic build dominating tournaments just over a year ago. Im talking about pre feb nerf time period “dude” not a year ago “bro”. DH was not meta for a very long time…it only was meta for some time in HoT…and even then it wasn’t really meta it was considered meme because nobody that is actually good dies to traps. Also…let alone burns…there was a lot more condition cleanse back then, then there is now. Burning builds were not a thing and were pretty meme. Edited May 10, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer.4362 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yikes, swing y un tipo señorita. Claramente te has perdido algunas cosas. Burn-DH con trapper rune fue EL tema candente en los torneos dominantes hace poco más de un año. Y trapper-rune DH también fue todo a través de la única versión itinerante WvW real del guardián de HoT y PoF. Los ladrones de trampas fueron los principales de los que se quejaron en la itinerancia WvW en 2014/5, y solo se eliminaron una vez que comenzaron a usar jefes de incursión en solitario. Esto es antes de que se lanzara Daredevil. La gente se ha estado quejando de las runas de trampero literalmente sin parar desde que se introdujeron en... ¿2014? Hasta hoy. Eso es lo que encuentro tan raro. ¿Porqué ahora? Una vez más, sin quejarme, solo desconcertado. La cantidad de esfuerzo que han hecho para mantener viva esta runa es irreal, nerfeando y cambiando literalmente todos los demás aspectos de estas construcciones además de la runa. Solo puedo concluir que fue alguien en el proyecto favorito de ANets y se mostraron reacios a dejarlo pasar. they clearly want us to play the new spec and not play other things, just the new 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: Im talking about pre feb nerf time period “dude” not a year ago “bro”. DH was not meta for a very long time…it only was meta for some time in HoT…and even then it wasn’t really meta it was considered meme because nobody that is actually good dies to traps. Also…let alone burns…there was a lot more condition cleanse back then, then there is now. Burning builds were not a thing and were pretty meme. Yes, but if you go back that far, there were other builds that people absolutely despied. As I said, trapper thief. Also, trapper druid with the old lower CD on ancient seeds. At various times in the past you couldn't move for the amount of complaints about these builds. It doesn't matter that they weren't meta. Trapper DH wasn't meta today when the nerf came through. Regardless of it being meta, there was a huge amount of fuss made about it, because basically all trap builds are anti-fun. The point is, the Feb patch is kinda irrelevant here. People complained about trapper runes for a long time before it, and continued to do so after it. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Archer.4362 said: they clearly want us to play the new spec and not play other things, just the new Then why not take it out when PoF came? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yikes, swing and a miss dude. You've clearly missed out on some stuff. Burn-DH with trapper rune was THE hot topic build dominating tournaments just over a year ago. And trapper-rune DH was also all through HoT and PoF guardian's only real WvW roaming build. Trap-thieves were the #1 complained about build in WvW roaming back in 2014/5, and only got removed once they started solo-ing raid bosses. This is before Daredevil was even released. People have been complaining about trapper runes literally non-stop since they were introduced back in..... 2014? Through to today. Thats what I find so odd. Why now? Again, not complaining, just bemused. The amount of bending over backwards they've done to keep this rune alive is unreal, nerfing and changing literally every other aspect of these builds other than the rune. I can only conclude that it was someone at ANets pet project and they were reluctant to let it go. Ghost trapper was certainly a problem but it was because it could kill without ever being revealed, and if they were revealed, they died because the entire build was centered around one gimmick. A lot of builds could just ignore it, which was the only realistic solution to classes without reveals. It was more of an urban legend than a terror that existed at all times. Painter consumables also existed and literally killed them because it was like 20 seconds of reveal that couldn't be removed. Don't get me wrong, the build was super degenerate and needed to go, but it wasn't complained about because it was strong, but because it was unfair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said: Ghost trapper was certainly a problem but it was because it could kill without ever being revealed, and if they were revealed, they died because the entire build was centered around one gimmick. A lot of builds could just ignore it, which was the only realistic solution to classes without reveals. It was more of an urban legend than a terror that existed at all times. Painter consumables also existed and literally killed them because it was like 20 seconds of reveal that couldn't be removed. Don't get me wrong, the build was super degenerate and needed to go, but it wasn't complained about because it was strong, but because it was unfair. Agreed, but doesn't change the fact that it was complained about. Strength =/= only reason something gets complained about. People complain about all sorts of stuff that isn't actually that good. Edited May 10, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer.4362 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Entonces, ¿por qué no sacarlo cuando llegó PoF? the firebrand was op, it was not necessary, core or fb was played, and now for us to play only the new classes is what it touches, nerf the old, it has always been the policy of anet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Archer.4362 said: the firebrand was op, it was not necessary, core or fb was played, and now for us to play only the new classes is what it touches, nerf the old, it has always been the policy of anet It wasn't necessary to nerf trapper builds now to get people to play WB or Untamed either. They were already doing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yes, but if you go back that far, there were other builds that people absolutely despied. As I said, trapper thief. Also, trapper druid with the old lower CD on ancient seeds. At various times in the past you couldn't move for the amount of complaints about these builds. It doesn't matter that they weren't meta. Trapper DH wasn't meta today when the nerf came through. Regardless of it being meta, there was a huge amount of fuss made about it, because basically all trap builds are anti-fun. The point is, the Feb patch is kinda irrelevant here. People complained about trapper runes for a long time before it, and continued to do so after it. "back that far?" I'm literally citing the whole time period before "before the February patch" which was the game prior to early 2020. Trap DH, Trap Ranger, and Trap Thief were not meta no where near it...they were meme builds that serious players rolled over in matches because everything was just way stronger than these builds ever were or could be in that time period. If you want a serious snapshot of the game from these days, just watch old Sindrener videos. The builds that were meta in HOT: Reaper (Condi, Shoutmancers, Power) Tempests (that heal the reapers back then) Mesmer (Condition, Power) Scrapper (Bruiser) Revenant DP Daredevil Druid Later when POF dropped, the meta shifted from Druids -> Soulbeast (Boonbeast), Scrappers -> Holosmiths, Reapers -> Scourges. and Tempests -> Firebrands. If you see a Trap DH, or a Trap Ranger or a Trap Thief...they are the exception not the norm. Edited May 10, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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