I hope you non-warriors are happy

[JTGuevara.9018]

You got what you wanted. Warrior did "too much damage" and "too much CC" and was "too oppressive". Now warrior is nerfed to the ground while guardian, necro and rev run roughshod in pvp modes. Congratulations. Now warrior does NO damage on rampage. NO damage with freaking GS or Axe. NO CC damage AT ALL. Non-warriors also have blind spam upon blind spam upon blind spam. Have fun with your low-effort builds. At least I didn't re-roll like a chump.

Edit: The confused emojis are very telling. That confirms to me that I'm on the right track. My apologies for spoiling the apple cart...

Edited June 6, 2022 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[Antycypator.9874]

All you do is spin to win, so you deserve having no damage.

[JTGuevara.9018]

4 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

All you do is spin to win, so you deserve having no damage.

But of course! The "spin to win" that lasts THREE seconds! Certainly not enough time to sit there and think, "Oh my...that's a lot of spinning axes! Better move away!" But no. Apparently that is still too much of a problem. Silly me! Now, address my point regarding warrior with actual facts. I'll wait.

[Myror.7521]

Idk what ya mean warr is pretty fair. Letz compare it to willbender. It cant outrun it thx to thousand dash/ ports. It cant stand in melee thx to aegis blind and Block. Willbender easily out dps a warr in like every way. The only thing warr got is more thougness 

[Popel.1468]

21 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

Idk what ya mean warr is pretty fair. Letz compare it to willbender. It cant outrun it thx to thousand dash/ ports. It cant stand in melee thx to aegis blind and Block. Willbender easily out dps a warr in like every way. The only thing warr got is more thougness 

That's glorious attribute 😄

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

You got what you wanted. Warrior did "too much damage" and "too much CC" and was "too oppressive". Now warrior is nerfed to the ground while guardian, necro and rev run roughshod in pvp modes. Congratulations. Now warrior does NO damage on rampage. NO damage with freaking GS or Axe. NO CC damage AT ALL. Non-warriors also have blind spam upon blind spam upon blind spam. Have fun with your low-effort builds. At least I didn't re-roll like a chump.

I don't think anyone asked for CC to cause no damage in competitive modes and I'm pretty sure everyone is aware how that impacts some builds far more than it does others.  Maybe you should limit the time you spend on the warrior forums, huh?

[Popel.1468]

Anyway, dmg on CC is too strong anyway, Even if nerfing was asked or no. Blizzard for eg learned it, brining 1st exp by reducing CC [implementing DR on CC], when rogue could kill max geared opponent with starting daggers, rotating with CC.

I am quite surprised that lasted that long in GW. Ofc GW have more ways to break stuns and other CC, but still its much easier for party members to burst disabled feo's, which should be strength (and is) in itself (at least in competitive environment) .

Back than, when Anet released 1st exp, there was necromancer build called "Fearomancer", which did that, and was reaping boons from feo's - that's all: No much dmg, but CC and reaping boons. Today, playing necro I feel, that I am playing fearomancer + burst dmg condi or power doesn't matter, because I have anyway effectively 70k HP (exluding HP of minions) :DDDDDDD (plus I can cleanse some condi from allies)

Edited June 2, 2022 by Zerthi.5493

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Berserker has a lot of burst potential luckily even though they have to go all in on damage boosting traits to achieve this.

I want them to buff gunflame and more of the burst mechanics damage potential and effects. No reason DH longbow abilities should have more damage potential then warrior rifle :/. Trueshot is basically gunflame but less telegraphed with no resources needed to hit high burst. Kind of absurd.

[Puck.3697]

I dont think anyone woke up one day and said "i'd really like it if Warrior was Dogtier."

i see this thread pop up alot in proffession forums.. and quite litterally no one is demanding other proffessions to suck, Anets Short cuts to "balancing" problems is what caused proffessions to be Dogtier and players tend to assossiate those who asked for Rightful nerfs to a few things as being the sole cause of nerfs.

Alike the thief nerfs we saw on EoD launch.

no one said "Nerf everything around shadow arts" People said "Rework Shadow arts as in current state its making Thief too oppressive". yet you see thieves say "People just dont want thief to be More then a "free kill" "

There are lots of things that need Reworking in GW2, Just because Anet Instead of implementing a Concrete fix just nerfs a whole bunch of stuff to delete things instead of those needed reworks, doesnt mean players are the problem. it means a Shortcut Anet took to "Budget" their balance patch Destroyed something u liked.

I.E was Mirages Evade broken in Season 9 PoF. Yah. did peopel Say Litterally gut Several builds. Nerf dodge Specifically to later on Delete said dodge No.

People were unhappy with Mirage season 9 bunker builds and Said the evade was Unfair. Anet could of taken that information and Worked on the Core issue. the physical Evades mechanics. instead they doubled down and Deleted a Dodge + nerfed its vigor entirely.

Hold your problems. to the company which chose how they balanced the proffession. Not with players who had a Issue with what was Dominating at the time, Anet nerf the wrong things and it generally topples over.

I.E Thiefs Complaints Were Primarily with its Sustain due to shadow arts. yet they Nerfed thief in a manner that basically forced Non-Spectre builds to only be able to use Shadow arts.. Quite litterally Deleting every buidl that didnt run shadow arts... Instead of just reworking Shadow arts...

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[ZDragon.3046]

8 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

You got what you wanted. Warrior did "too much damage" and "too much CC" and was "too oppressive". Now warrior is nerfed to the ground while guardian, necro and rev run roughshod in pvp modes. Congratulations. Now warrior does NO damage on rampage. NO damage with freaking GS or Axe. NO CC damage AT ALL. Non-warriors also have blind spam upon blind spam upon blind spam. Have fun with your low-effort builds. At least I didn't re-roll like a chump.

I do think some of the cc was technically too oppressive for what it was doing back then.

Activates rampage > Throws a rock wihile kiting away that stuns and deals 8-12k damage > oh you dodged it ill just dash at you for 10k > oh you dodged it > throws another rock for 8-12k damage... 
Rampage was one of the insane examples that was = to lich after the nerfs except it had cc rather than just only damage. Things like bulls charge, shield bash, hammer attacks etc didnt deserve the cc damage nerfs though 

[Popel.1468]

9 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I dont think anyone woke up one day and said "i'd really like it if Warrior was Dogtier."

i see this thread pop up alot in proffession forums.. and quite litterally no one is demanding other proffessions to suck, Anets Short cuts to "balancing" problems is what caused proffessions to be Dogtier and players tend to assossiate those who asked for Rightful nerfs to a few things as being the sole cause of nerfs.

Alike the thief nerfs we saw on EoD launch.

no one said "Nerf everything around shadow arts" People said "Rework Shadow arts as in current state its making Thief too oppressive". yet you see thieves say "People just dont want thief to be More then a "free kill" "

There are lots of things that need Reworking in GW2, Just because Anet Instead of implementing a Concrete fix just nerfs a whole bunch of stuff to delete things instead of those needed reworks, doesnt mean players are the problem. it means a Shortcut Anet took to "Budget" their balance patch Destroyed something u liked.

I.E was Mirages Evade broken in Season 9 PoF. Yah. did peopel Say Litterally gut Several builds. Nerf dodge Specifically to later on Delete said dodge No.

People were unhappy with Mirage season 9 bunker builds and Said the evade was Unfair. Anet could of taken that information and Worked on the Core issue. the physical Evades mechanics. instead they doubled down and Deleted a Dodge + nerfed its vigor entirely.

Hold your problems. to the company which chose how they balanced the proffession. Not with players who had a Issue with what was Dominating at the time, Anet nerf the wrong things and it generally topples over.

I.E Thiefs Complaints Were Primarily with its Sustain due to shadow arts. yet they Nerfed thief in a manner that basically forced Non-Spectre builds to only be able to use Shadow arts.. Quite litterally Deleting every buidl that didnt run shadow arts... Instead of just reworking Shadow arts...

 

Ah, yea - that's also something to point out:D It's looks like soon there will be 1 amulet to "pick", followed by 1 rune.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Zerthi.5493

[Diak Atoli.2085]

These types of threads always make me laugh. Whether the base argument is valid or not, the inevitable hyperbole and narrow focus tend to make constructive responses pointless to me. Especially when one can find posts for the other eight professions that just figuratively replace the profession name.

Thanks, OP, for the laugh.

[JTGuevara.9018]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I dont think anyone woke up one day and said "i'd really like it if Warrior was Dogtier."

i see this thread pop up alot in proffession forums.. and quite litterally no one is demanding other proffessions to suck, Anets Short cuts to "balancing" problems is what caused proffessions to be Dogtier and players tend to assossiate those who asked for Rightful nerfs to a few things as being the sole cause of nerfs.

Alike the thief nerfs we saw on EoD launch.

no one said "Nerf everything around shadow arts" People said "Rework Shadow arts as in current state its making Thief too oppressive". yet you see thieves say "People just dont want thief to be More then a "free kill" "

There are lots of things that need Reworking in GW2, Just because Anet Instead of implementing a Concrete fix just nerfs a whole bunch of stuff to delete things instead of those needed reworks, doesnt mean players are the problem. it means a Shortcut Anet took to "Budget" their balance patch Destroyed something u liked.

I.E was Mirages Evade broken in Season 9 PoF. Yah. did peopel Say Litterally gut Several builds. Nerf dodge Specifically to later on Delete said dodge No.

People were unhappy with Mirage season 9 bunker builds and Said the evade was Unfair. Anet could of taken that information and Worked on the Core issue. the physical Evades mechanics. instead they doubled down and Deleted a Dodge + nerfed its vigor entirely.

Hold your problems. to the company which chose how they balanced the proffession. Not with players who had a Issue with what was Dominating at the time, Anet nerf the wrong things and it generally topples over.

I.E Thiefs Complaints Were Primarily with its Sustain due to shadow arts. yet they Nerfed thief in a manner that basically forced Non-Spectre builds to only be able to use Shadow arts.. Quite litterally Deleting every buidl that didnt run shadow arts... Instead of just reworking Shadow arts...

 

True, nobody explicitly says "X profession should be low-tier", yet people don't seem to mind that it ends up happening! People just look the other way when a class is low-tier secretly thinking, "Hah! At least I don't main THAT class!".

And NOPE, players are part of the problem. If players are going to sit there and shill for their overpowered mains and not look at the game as a whole, guess what...they're part of the problem. Players are not innocent and above criticism, here.

[JTGuevara.9018]

24 minutes ago, Diak Atoli.2085 said:

These types of threads always make me laugh. Whether the base argument is valid or not, the inevitable hyperbole and narrow focus tend to make constructive responses pointless to me. Especially when one can find posts for the other eight professions that just figuratively replace the profession name.

Thanks, OP, for the laugh.

And thank you for the participation.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

True, nobody explicitly says "X profession should be low-tier", yet people don't seem to mind that it ends up happening! People just look the other way when a class is low-tier secretly thinking, "Hah! At least I don't main THAT class!".

And NOPE, players are part of the problem. If players are going to sit there and shill for their overpowered mains and not look at the game as a whole, guess what...they're part of the problem. Players are not innocent and above criticism, here.

i think people do mind, its a simple case of someone who doesnt play the said Proffession. Doesnt know what to ask for realistically. you cant ask for change in balance if you dont fundamentally understand what needs to improve or what needs to change to bring the proffession to a higher competitive capability.

[otto.5684]

17 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

You got what you wanted. Warrior did "too much damage" and "too much CC" and was "too oppressive". Now warrior is nerfed to the ground while guardian, necro and rev run roughshod in pvp modes. Congratulations. Now warrior does NO damage on rampage. NO damage with freaking GS or Axe. NO CC damage AT ALL. Non-warriors also have blind spam upon blind spam upon blind spam. Have fun with your low-effort builds. At least I didn't re-roll like a chump.

This is a hyperbolic statement. Sure, there were periods where warrior was out performing in spvp. However, overall warrior has always and consistently been the worst class. This has nothing to do with player feedback or whining. It was and is Anet’s failure in performing good design and class balance. 

[Lighter.5631]

19 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

All you do is spin to win, so you deserve having no damage.

are you talking about willbender?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

19 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

are you talking about willbender?

Honestly lol.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 6/2/2022 at 4:20 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

i think people do mind, its a simple case of someone who doesnt play the said Proffession. Doesnt know what to ask for realistically. you cant ask for change in balance if you dont fundamentally understand what needs to improve or what needs to change to bring the proffession to a higher competitive capability.

Whoever said I was asking for anything specific changes? (that's what each profession forum is for). This thread is just to vent and call out certain players who still pretend that warrior is "viable" or "middle of the pack". It's not. Every time new specs come out, warrior gradually gets worse because it's still primarily pigeon-holed into mostly power builds.

 

On 6/2/2022 at 7:12 PM, otto.5684 said:

This is a hyperbolic statement. Sure, there were periods where warrior was out performing in spvp. However, overall warrior has always and consistently been the worst class. This has nothing to do with player feedback or whining. It was and is Anet’s failure in performing good design and class balance. 

There's that word again, hyperbolic. (Seems to be popular these days...) Even with a strong Rampage, it still took skill to land the CCs. Can't say the same for necro Shroud! (I know autos when I see them, I don't need to play the class...!) And you are most certainly wrong, it DOES have to do with player feedback. I've witnessed it personally, any time warrior becomes viable or "meta", people come out of the woodwork to demand nerfs even when it's not needed.

[otto.5684]

8 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Whoever said I was asking for anything specific changes? (that's what each profession forum is for). This thread is just to vent and call out certain players who still pretend that warrior is "viable" or "middle of the pack". It's not. Every time new specs come out, warrior gradually gets worse because it's still primarily pigeon-holed into mostly power builds.

 

There's that word again, hyperbolic. (Seems to be popular these days...) Even with a strong Rampage, it still took skill to land the CCs. Can't say the same for necro Shroud! (I know autos when I see them, I don't need to play the class...!) And you are most certainly wrong, it DOES have to do with player feedback. I've witnessed it personally, any time warrior becomes viable or "meta", people come out of the woodwork to demand nerfs even when it's not needed.

People complain about guardian and necro all the kittening time, yet they do not have this issue. It is not an issue of biased player feedback, but incompetent development.

[Kuma.1503]

From before the Feb patch dropped, I've been trying to convince players that complaining for nerfs wasn't going to make the game better. With every meta build killed there was collateral damage to weaker builds because that is how Anet does their nerfs. With the weaker builds killed as collateral, the more balanced healthy builds weren't able to take over as people predicted, instead we just kept gravitating to whatever is the least nerfed out of the pool. Typically, Necro, Rev, thief, and guard. 

It's been a long process with a lot of pushback from the community, but it seems like, now that what I said would happen is happening, people are starting to see that constant nerfs aren't the magic bullet to save PvP.

There's been a slow shift with people starting to accept that maybe we should give some love to underperforming builds (like Warrior), maybe we should rework some traits and weapons that have been made useless. Maybe we should clean up some painpoints such as bad projectile tracking, 300 sec cooldowns, blinks going off in place, easily avoidable CC skills with long telegraphs doing no damage (backbreaker). Maybe we shouldn't ignore these problems as they keep piling up in favor of just creating more by continuing to nerf the few builds that still function?

I'm one person that has spent more time defending other people's classes than defending my own, because if poor logic can be applied to nerf an underpowered build on one class, the same will apply to others, until everyone is ultimately unhappy. 

Balance, but at what cost?

[JTGuevara.9018]

Just now, otto.5684 said:

People complain about guardian and necro all the kittening time, yet they do not have this issue. It is not an issue of biased player feedback, but incompetent development.

Yes, because of Willbender and Harbinger, which are running ROUGHSHOD over pvp. Also, because they're two of the Anet favorites. I agree on incompetent development, but I am not letting players off the hook.

[Angesombre.4630]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

From before the Feb patch dropped, I've been trying to convince players that complaining for nerfs wasn't going to make the game better. With every meta build killed there was collateral damage to weaker builds because that is how Anet does their nerfs. With the weaker builds killed as collateral, the more balanced healthy builds weren't able to take over as people predicted, instead we just kept gravitating to whatever is the least nerfed out of the pool. Typically, Necro, Rev, thief, and guard. 

 

The revenant less nerfs? he took only nerfs for 2 years and some without justification, he was completely destroyed (dwarf, hammer, demon, shiro, even the traits) and even more since the release of the vindicator, end of february. The necro his nerf was very minor, the guard I don't know, but the thief no nerf.

[Kuma.1503]

16 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

The revenant less nerfs? he took only nerfs for 2 years and some without justification, he was completely destroyed (dwarf, hammer, demon, shiro, even the traits) and even more since the release of the vindicator, end of february. The necro his nerf was very minor, the guard I don't know, but the thief no nerf.

It's not about who wasn't nerfed. Every class has been nerfed for the 2 years following Feb 2020 (Even guardian, but they usually get compensation). It's about who got it the least bad, and Rev hasn't been destroyed on the same level as some other classes, hence why it remains meta. 

Vindicator got some nerfs as well, but unlike other EoD specs (*cough* Mechanist ) It at least hasn't been nerfed in every major patch, including a hotfix nerf, and it at least got a few buffs to its damage to compensate when it did get hit. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Whoever said I was asking for anything specific changes? (that's what each profession forum is for). This thread is just to vent and call out certain players who still pretend that warrior is "viable" or "middle of the pack". It's not. Every time new specs come out, warrior gradually gets worse because it's still primarily pigeon-holed into mostly power builds.

 

There's that word again, hyperbolic. (Seems to be popular these days...) Even with a strong Rampage, it still took skill to land the CCs. Can't say the same for necro Shroud! (I know autos when I see them, I don't need to play the class...!) And you are most certainly wrong, it DOES have to do with player feedback. I've witnessed it personally, any time warrior becomes viable or "meta", people come out of the woodwork to demand nerfs even when it's not needed.

Yeah, having a bar where every move is a high-damage CC is big brain. 🙄

I agree warrior is in a bad spot, but this is just delusional.