Why is Virtuoso allowed to place 24 stacks of confusion on you from stealth?

[Ovark.2514]

Or at all for that matter? Then it hits your with power damage so you need to use a skill to save yourself then die instantly to confusion.  .  .

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

This smells like a warrior grievance.

The confusion is fine, as are the blocks. If you were playing warrior, try not to project your weakness as your enemies strength. Your frustration is largely stemming from the fact that you're playing a different game than everyone else.

That being said, it bears noting that virtuoso, as much as some people consider it a bad mesmer spec due to it being unable to find a slot in AT, is still leagues better than warrior/its derivatives.

You do not need to hit any button if you are hit by Virt-F2. you can wait out the confusion because apart from those bursts, the virt doesn't have significant pressure on you, and is slow. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Ovark.2514]

26 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This smells like a warrior grievance.

The confusion is fine, as are the blocks. If you were playing warrior, try not to project your weakness as your enemies strength. Your frustration is largely stemming from the fact that you're playing a different game than everyone else.

That being said, it bears noting that virtuoso, as much as some people consider it a bad mesmer spec due to it being unable to find a slot in AT, is still leagues better than warrior/its derivatives.

You do not need to hit any button if you are hit by Virt-F2. you can wait out the confusion because apart from those bursts, the virt doesn't have significant pressure on you, and is slow. 

 

 

 

 

Tell that to the virtuosos I fight. They are using vipers or something so they deal decent power damage even after the confusion

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 minutes ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Tell that to the virtuosos I fight. They are using vipers or something so they deal decent power damage even after the confusion

 

I get that's frustrating af, but that matchup only works vs you on war.

 

Thief, Ranger, Guardian, Necro, Rev, Ele and engie have tools to mitigate it or ranged counterpressure, which can make virt damage negligible if they're fighting someplace there's a time constraint. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[viquing.8254]

U have 2 evades, if you get hit by confuburst, you can evade the next outcome or I'm missing something ?

That said I didn't met enough virtuoso to have a good view of this situation.

[Aodlop.1907]

59 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

That said I didn't met enough virtuoso to have a good view of this situation.

That's because it's fun to play for 1 hour, then you realize you're useless once the F2 button has been pressed and you go back to a non-gimmicky class.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, viquing.8254 said:

U have 2 evades, if you get hit by confuburst, you can evade the next outcome or I'm missing something ?

That said I didn't met enough virtuoso to have a good view of this situation.

 

There's a combination of things that makes this MU obnoxious. None of it really has to do with the virt though. They have pretty high block/invuln uptime, which they need due to the clones being turned into daggers. it's much easier to target them. 

While that makes them -worse- for lots of team content, it makes them better against things that already struggle to gap close, and things that deal burst damage in single hits that can be mitigated by aegis. So, warrior. You also get some ways to fend thief with that.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Myror.7521]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 But we need the REAL good questions here. One would be. What actually dont do counter warrior at all? xD

[Amadeus.5687]

3 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Tell that to the virtuosos I fight. They are using vipers or something so they deal decent power damage even after the confusion

 

There is no vipper stats in sPvP....

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 But we need the REAL good questions here. One would be. What actually dont do counter warrior at all? xD

 

If I grasp at straws, probably core engie and core mesmer (power).  And even then, certain core engies can shut you down. (Woodstock in particular can prob win that MU more often than not), and Mesmer can choose to ruin your life by taking Power Block and having normal reaction time.

 

Everyone else uphill battle. 
 

Quote

There is no vipper stats in sPvP....

True. Sinister's/Grieving with confusion sigils is best you got 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sleepwalker.1398]

If you are a warrior complaining, how about you go put some reflect on your shield and let the Virtuoso kill themselves.

[apharma.3741]

I agree, confusion should have a stack cap of 10 and all stacks are removed on next skill use. Also while we're at it torment should do half the damage it currently does, then we can all be safe from these plagues of virtuoso's ruining the competitive experience for us all.

[Mik.3401]

I agree or don’t agree

Edited June 10, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Tycura.1982]

Shake it off 

 

Also stupidly high stacks is the name of the game with some of these EOD specs. Harb, Virt, Spec, heck even Willie has 4 stacks of burning on whirling light. Yknow the one where they spin around like a buffoon on a 15 second CD.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Tycura.1982

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

If you are a warrior complaining, how about you go put some reflect on your shield and let the Virtuoso kill themselves.

Reflect doesn't scale off the casters condi damage,  it scales off the reflecter.

And warriors don't have condi builds. Taking defense to occasionally hit a virt that for some reason never dodges when shield is up isnt a solution. 

Again, virt is fine (or at least not over-performing). War isnt.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sleepwalker.1398]

54 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Reflect doesn't scale off the casters condi damage,  it scales off the reflecter.

And warriors don't have condi builds. Taking defense to occasionally hit a virt that for some reason never dodges when shield is up isnt a solution. 

Again, virt is fine. War isnt.

 

 

So lets take it you don't take Defence,  but you have cleanse on heal, cleanse on Shake it off, other traits like auto Shake it off and cleanse on weapon swap. But you would rather have the opposing class take a nerf just so you can play your optimal build?

Also there is condi berserker build available.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

So lets take it you don't take Defence,  but you have cleanse on heal, cleanse on Shake it off, other traits like auto Shake it off and cleanse on weapon swap. But you would rather have the opposing class take a nerf just so you can play your optimal build?

 

I literally said virtuoso is fine multiple times, but go off. @Ovark.2514 if you mean ovark.

That being said its still a bad matchup for warrior. Bladesong sorrow can be cast every 20 seconds. Shake it off cd is 75. Warriors have to manage that cd deficit, while trying to get in range of the virt for damage, and ensure that damage doesn't just meet an aegis or block when its delivered. All the combat pressure is on the war in that interaction.

 

Quote

Also there is condi berserker build available.

Is defense condi zerker your proposed solution, given the above? Think carefully about that. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sleepwalker.1398]

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I literally said virtuoso is fine multiple times, but go off. @Ovark.2514 if you mean ovark.

 

That being said its still a bad matchup for warrior. Bladesong sorrow can be cast every 20 seconds. Shake it off cd is 75. Warriors have to manage that cd deficit, while trying to get in range of the virt for damage, and ensure that damage doesn't just meet an aegis or block when its delivered. All the combat pressure is on the war in that interaction.

 

You have Mending on 20sec and 16sec when traited.

 

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

And warriors don't have condi builds.

 

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Is defense condi zerker your proposed solution, given the above? Think carefully now.

 

No, i'm just correcting you cos you said "warriors don't have condi builds."

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

You have Mending on 20sec and 16sec when traited.

While shake it off and weapon swap are good cleanse sources to deal with confusion (and I say "good" as in "mechanically, they would work if shake it off cd wasnt 75 seconds and weapon swap dealt with confusion reliably, since sorrow typically drops cripple, vuln and torment on you too, in addition to the bleed and confusion"), surely you can see the problem with Mending (eating the confusion damage then performing a 1 second, interruptible, visible cast to clear confusion) and why that would be frustrating to get done vs a class that can tell you "no" if they have line of sight on you while you do that.

Again, virt is fine. It's warrior that struggles uniquely here. Are you arguing against war buffs specifically?

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

No, i'm just correcting you cos you said "warriors don't have condi builds."

Ah. Semantics. I see.

Okay. You're right, I did say "builds." Point to one other warrior condi build, and you've corrected me. Preferably one that can adequately fight virtuoso. 

(Pettiness aside I assumed it was understood the point is "how to deal with virt as warrior". "Reflect while condi build" is infeasible.) 

 

Edit:

Wait a minute. HEY, don't you have unblockable bladesongs? Why are you pretending reflect is the solution? Come back I just wanna talk-

Edited June 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sleepwalker.1398]

31 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Edit:

Wait a minute. HEY, don't you have unblockable bladesongs? Why are you pretending reflect is the solution? Come back I just wanna talk-

I'll correct you again.

Its only unblockable when traited.

Not everyone is a fan of Psychic Riposte.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sleepwalker.1398
when

[Sleepwalker.1398]

..

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sleepwalker.1398

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I'll correct you again.

Its only unblockable when traited.

Not everyone is a fan of Psychic Riposte.

 

Touche, got it. So warrior has a solid matchup vs virtuoso (except that its matchup-addressing cds are at least three times as long as the problem casts from virtuoso) and virtuoso has a specific weakness to reflect (except when it decides not to).

 

Enlightening. 

Disclaimer: Virtuoso is fine. Warrior is not. 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Exciton.8942]

This is a skill on 20s CD and highly telegraphed with not so fast travelling projectile. How difficult is it to save a dodge every 20s for this?

 

In the worst case, you got focus fired and used all your dodges. If you can stop using skill for a mere 4 seconds, you will only take less than 1000 damage from that 24 stacks of confusion.

[Bale.3851]

17 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

U have 2 evades, if you get hit by confuburst, you can evade the next outcome or I'm missing something ?

 

This is the answer to 90% of PVP complaints. Kappa. Love this FOrUm.

[Infinity.2876]

19 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Or at all for that matter? Then it hits your with power damage so you need to use a skill to save yourself then die instantly to confusion.  .  .

Imagine if a Virtuoso and a mirage(condi) teamed up....

 

Also most of the time if you survive the initial burst you can just bonk them on the head and they'll fall over it isn't like deadeye who has access to a lot more stealth and can remove revealed from themselves. They are also vulnerable to most cc (stuns, dazes, push, pull, float, etc.) as they don't have stability or resistance by themselves.

 

Just some friendly tips.