Revenant Healing

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Has the revenant tablet healing builds just been nerfed to the ground? Recently it seems like no matter what I do it is just not really worth using it, guardians can heal 3x better even if you rock the tablet and staff setup swapping to the GS spec that heals as well. It feels worthless these days.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Renegade could always heal better than Ventari anyway., with less micromanagement. Ventari is designed to be a dedicated healer (even moreso than Druid), probably the most dedicated healer the game has, and yet it just doesn't function properly.

 

One reason is lack of Regeneration boon, which on a full %healing Herald produces 1k/sec.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Just now, Hannelore.8153 said:

Renegade could always heal better than Ventari anyway., with less micromanagement.

Just seems strange to me, revenant needs some love imo

[fenriswolfman.5486]

Look at the patch notes...

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Renegade could always heal better than Ventari anyway.

Highly confusing statement. Renegade is an elite spec, while Ventari is a legend each Revenant spec can use.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Dante.1508]

Its all nerfed in a few days so i would wait until then.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Rev healing was nerfed only in PvP and WvW back in Feb 2020, though I don't think it was touched in PvE. The tablet is losing its alacrity output, and Salvation's outgoing healing modiers will be reduced quite significantly come this Tuesday, but it will be gaining some new things in return. 

 

Are your complaints about Rev healing being weak or the kit as a whole? 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Highly confusing statement. Renegade is an elite spec, while Ventari is a legend each Revenant spec can use.

It doesn't matter whether its a Core or Elite spec.

 

In high-level content generally only one supportive Legend is taken, and the other tends to be offensive or defensive. In PvE, this is typically Renegade mixed with Jalis for defense or Shiro for damage (or Mallyx for condi damage). In competitive modes, this is almost always Herald and Jalis/Shiro/Mallyx.

 

Ventari doesn't heal enough in PvE to justify taking it over Renegade which buffs ally damage while healing, and in competitive modes the tablet micromanagement makes it useless in most fights.

 

Ventari's sole niche use is in projectile-heavy situations like Fractals.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

It doesn't matter whether its a Core or Elite spec.

In high-level content generally only one supportive Legend is taken

I know this, and it has nothing to do with my response. You don't write "Renegade" and then "Ventari" to describe two different builds when any spec can take Ventari as it's a core Legend.
 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[SoulBlaze.3059]

If revenant gets nerfed again, the class will literally be a joke. Ill go play guardian where every spec is powerful as kitten.

[Aeolus.3615]

15 hours ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

Has the revenant tablet healing builds just been nerfed to the ground? Recently it seems like no matter what I do it is just not really worth using it, guardians can heal 3x better even if you rock the tablet and staff setup swapping to the GS spec that heals as well. It feels worthless these days.

TAblet atm is healing 7k on Wvw, 10k PVE every 3 seconds (but skill comes at heavy energy cost so energy management is needed), in theory it will heal a similiar amount on wvw maybe less with is a huge dwarback for such expensive skill in a pvp zone...since it doesnt heal the caster as much it heals others.

tablet movement heals less than 1k arround  700-900 at max (will be lost within next update)

Herald regen is over 1k same thing in vindicator, i nerver saw a FB with regen over 600-700v (still regen is a weak boon outside pve).

Staff 2 heals 2k-3k

staff 4 heals arround 5k and clears 2 condis

Shield 4 healks arround 5k aplyies protection and clears 1 or 2 condis (dont remember).

 

Ventari rev's are not ment to compete with the spam support  builds, it is  a plus one healer(can be even used with non minstrell stats perfectly) it is not ment to keep  camping tablet and spam everything u have like a FB or scrapper, over time a FB will start having stuff on CD and cant keep hp of alies up that's where  other support builds come arround with a big wooosh of health for quite some time to give time for the support to recover.

Another thing ventari has more range no doubt than a FB and a scrapper it's nice to defend the idiots that overextend a litle bit.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jthug.9506]

Revenant outgoing healing is taking a 33% bath because of outgoing healing traits being deleted out of salvation tomorrow, so it’s about to get a lot worse. Like don’t play any kind of heal rev unless you want to troll.

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, Jthug.9506 said:

Revenant outgoing healing is taking a 33% bath because of outgoing healing traits being deleted out of salvation tomorrow, so it’s about to get a lot worse. Like don’t play any kind of heal rev unless you want to troll.

one cant troll in healing rev cause the self heal was always very minor :P 3k self ->7k others

So it's far worse than i am expecting? for that Anet should cut it's energy price as well... CUT in heal CUT in its energy cost as well...

 

EDIT: ic now what u guys ment i wasnt reading it well:

"After summoning Ventari's Tablet, the next Legendary Centaur skill will be empowered. This occurs when entering Legendary Centaur Stance or when using Project Tranquility."

This is a huge nerf and not a buf like the dev said in blog, they dont even know if its a buff or nerf... it will be 4k heals with over 2k healing power from the 7k possible ???

If this values go arround this the energy IS WAY TO EXPENSIVE to be used well for such amount, 7k was nice to catch spikes and give a change to the ally so survice wich was a 50/50 situation since also deppends player and build that is being spiked, but if the heal gos arround  4k means that Ventari rev is dead cause lost its function..

If this verifies tomorow Anet if forcing 100% players to only zerg gameplay where not big heals are needed but boon and several heals.

IC tomorow if i play has jackyl or hyde

 

EDIT2: I hope the boost comes really good on tablet movement.... still if the gap becomes to big will give a clunky heal effect for the player, i just played my ventari build with similar stats for next patch..  the drop in effectivess is almost 100% feels more like a zerg blob healer than small combat healer... (this not takingi in account the boost of tablet movement cause we dont know how much will buff outgoing heals. The 6K-7k heals and the high cost of the skill seams the more balance and effective  even with healing 7k alies die, so lower 6k this wil become really hard to be effective with this skills).

Edited June 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

5 hours ago, Jthug.9506 said:

Revenant outgoing healing is taking a 33% bath because of outgoing healing traits being deleted out of salvation tomorrow, so it’s about to get a lot worse. Like don’t play any kind of heal rev unless you want to troll.

 

Admittedly I am a bit worried about this because it very well could turn out that the healing values on all of the new healing traits are extremely low. Crossing my fingers that is not the case.

 

In PvE it is definitely going to be the most drastic considering the Salvation modifiers are not nerfed. The nerfs are definitely severe, though I do think that a few of the meta healing builds I have looked up take a couple orb traits, so perhaps not as much as I anticipate.

In WvW, in full Minstrel's/Monks w/ Food/Util/Infusions, I'll be losing out on anywhere from 20%-27% outgoing healing (about -25% from Selfless Amplification getting removed, -7% from Tranquil Balance getting removed, but then +5% from Serene Rejuvenation getting buffed). That's a considerable amount to be fair. You can take something like Magi or Cleric's to maximize your healing and then further the loss via Selfless Amplication, but it'll make even more sense post-patch to take Minstrel's.

In PvP, Selfless Amplification being removed doesn't have as big of an impact considering the best healing power amulets available are Avatar/Sage @ 500 healing power. In Avatar/Monks I'll be missing out on just under 6-13% outgoing healing, which is good because they never seemed to factor in that removing Mender's Amulet was a considerable nerf to Selfless Amplification.

 

But I think it's also important to consider what we're gaining:

-A significantly more reliable way of actually landing the skills on allies due to Ventari's Will being a 0.25s CD

-A much more reliable and polished version of healing orbs

-More group cleanse

-Group endurance regen

-A wider array of boons in Ventari (at the cost of alacrity). Prot alone is a big deal in my eyes.

-More energy to spend on the legend skills due to the energy conserved via Ventari's Will being free (PvE againwill unfortunately feel the tradeoff from this the most due to not needing to move the tablet as frequently, and Ventari's Will being stronger there)

-More self-sustain in Ventari due to the added boons, additional effects, and a beefier Natural Harmony

 

Not trying to invalidate your argument because I genuinely agree with it to an extent, but I am optimistic about the changes and hope that the tuning they do on the new goodies is high enough to justify the loss of outgoing healing modifiers. I mourned the massive hit to our WvW/PvP modifiers in the Feb 2020 patch for a very long time, and honestly Ventari has never felt the same since considering big healing was always its big gimmick. I'm hoping that these changes will round off the legend/traitline more. I think for myself the biggest things I will miss are the knockback from the tablet elite, as well as how easy its energy depletion mechanic made proccing Charged Mists.

 

Also hopefully my maths are right for the modifier stuff.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Healing isn’t really the advantage Guard has over Rev. 

 

And if you really just want a bunch of healing, you should be going with Tempest.  
 

The major advantage of Guard is the utility and role compression since it brings more tools in a single build than Rev can.  
 

[Aeolus.3615]

@Za Shaloc.3908

I hope ur right :| that were my initially understanding from the changes also but then people pointed will be a 30%+ lost in efectiveness, and 4.k heals down from 6k on combat its pretty nasty nerf , wich feels 4k   is just heals for the blob where theres alot of spam , not worth small scale due the effort needed most time VS damage and spikes done, so if the healin is that much nerfed this is a huge nerf to Ventari in favor of minstrells blobers....

 

I still refuse to use minstrell stats... and i refuse to play even more in blob PVD.

 

lets just cross fingers.....

Edited June 28, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

6 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Healing isn’t really the advantage Guard has over Rev. 

 

And if you really just want a bunch of healing, you should be going with Tempest.  
 

The major advantage of Guard is the utility and role compression since it brings more tools in a single build than Rev can.  
 

Debatable, they both have equal amount of utility in general other than a instant revive skill. What Guardian has that Revenant doesn't is ease of application.

 

As Guardian you hardly have to work for the application of your support since everything is a large radius, Revenant has to constantly chase and have people consciously act on it with you if they want the full efficiency.

[Dahkeus.8243]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Debatable, they both have equal amount of utility in general other than a instant revive skill. What Guardian has that Revenant doesn't is ease of application.

 

As Guardian you hardly have to work for the application of your support since everything is a large radius, Revenant has to constantly chase and have people consciously act on it with you if they want the full efficiency.

Don't agree at all, particularly with them both having equal utility.  Rev has no access to stability or aegis, which is pretty huge.  It also has on demand access to every boon in the game.  A heal rene won't have resistance and resolution uptime is nothing in comparison.  This also means Firebrands give swiftness (not huge, but helps classes that increase damage with unique boons) and fury. 

There's a reason why groups run healbrands in fractals and not heal renegades.  It's role compression.

[Knighthonor.4061]

9 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Healing isn’t really the advantage Guard has over Rev. 

 

And if you really just want a bunch of healing, you should be going with Tempest.  
 

The major advantage of Guard is the utility and role compression since it brings more tools in a single build than Rev can.  
 

Nah Revenant healers are very underappreciated in this community,  but we hold down the squad in WvW. Just most people don't recognize our work. 

 

"Hey what's the floating tablet thingy that's following us?".....

 

Our bubble may borderline be best, because we can send it into enemy lines to stop all ranged attacks and can CC as need be on specific locations like a detonated bomb. Also add Saintgaroo,  and you have major healing to allies. Only issue is people are so use to Herald Hammer Revenant as the identity of the class as a whole, they people never expect some of us to be pure support and not DPSers.

[Knighthonor.4061]

1 hour ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Don't agree at all, particularly with them both having equal utility.  Rev has no access to stability or aegis, which is pretty huge.  It also has on demand access to every boon in the game.  A heal rene won't have resistance and resolution uptime is nothing in comparison.  This also means Firebrands give swiftness (not huge, but helps classes that increase damage with unique boons) and fury. 

There's a reason why groups run healbrands in fractals and not heal renegades.  It's role compression.

Wait this not true at all. Have you checked out Saint Legend lately 🙏? We have access to a lot of that stuff and more. Alacrity is pretty useless in WvW, so I don't mind losing it if it means the legend and spec of Vantari and Salvation gets fixed and buffed.

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Wait this not true at all. Have you checked out Saint Legend lately 🙏? We have access to a lot of that stuff and more. Alacrity is pretty useless in WvW, so I don't mind losing it if it means the legend and spec of Vantari and Salvation gets fixed and buffed.

That's the thing, it feels it isnt buffed, faster movement but heals m8 end very weak for a very expensive energy skill, yesterday i capped my heals at 4k  and it's effect was useless, heals cant be lower than 6k at minimal.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Don't agree at all, particularly with them both having equal utility.  Rev has no access to stability or aegis, which is pretty huge.  It also has on demand access to every boon in the game.  A heal rene won't have resistance and resolution uptime is nothing in comparison.  This also means Firebrands give swiftness (not huge, but helps classes that increase damage with unique boons) and fury. 

There's a reason why groups run healbrands in fractals and not heal renegades.  It's role compression.

Revenant does have Stability access and it comes packaged with what might be the strongest damage modifier in the game that is not immunity to both strike and condition that cannot be removed via debuffs either, while you may say we don't have Aegis, we have Weakness which is just as good in damage mitigation.

 

Swiftness is available given people care to blast a field although Revenant has it available every 10 seconds for a possible 3 blasts.

 

Resistance is accessible also with Battle Dance which takes part in many other useful support skills.

 

Jalis/Alliances does align with great utility and support that can be compared to Firebrand.

 

Like said, Guardian in general simply has it easier in terms of use, much easier. What are players gonna go for? Easy ways because coordination is extremely scattered and making it any harder even though the buffs might be just as good if not better still doesn't justify it to the average player.

 

[Dahkeus.8243]

3 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Revenant does have Stability access and it comes packaged with what might be the strongest damage modifier in the game that is not immunity to both strike and condition that cannot be removed via debuffs either, while you may say we don't have Aegis, we have Weakness which is just as good in damage mitigation.

 

Swiftness is available given people care to blast a field although Revenant has it available every 10 seconds for a possible 3 blasts.

 

Resistance is accessible also with Battle Dance which takes part in many other useful support skills.

 

Jalis/Alliances does align with great utility and support that can be compared to Firebrand.

 

Like said, Guardian in general simply has it easier in terms of use, much easier. What are players gonna go for? Easy ways because coordination is extremely scattered and making it any harder even though the buffs might be just as good if not better still doesn't justify it to the average player.

 

 

Revenant has stability.  Heal rene does not.  You don't heal in Jalis.  It doesn't even have 100% uptime on full might anymore.  You don't give swiftness on heal rene either.  Even if try-harding, guardian outperforms basically everything except mecha for heal support.  Can't speak to druid after patch tho.

[Aeolus.3615]

Huge nerf to ventari overal..... ANet lied on blog stating was makign it better   lol :)

CONS:;

-Ventari with boons is useless

-Heals less  

- Still has ORB mechanics ... WTF (generous abundance should need a buff and not be a freakign orb)

-Project tranquillity if not buffing healing output tha tmuch needs to keep destroying tablet and spawning it again... its a weird mechanic.

-Favors to much vindicator rather more than any other spec , its is a bad update.

PRO

Tablet movement feels better

 

TDLR: I feel Anet forcing players to play zerg minstrell Aliiance/ventri...  

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

 

Revenant has stability.  Heal rene does not.  You don't heal in Jalis.  It doesn't even have 100% uptime on full might anymore.  You don't give swiftness on heal rene either.  Even if try-harding, guardian outperforms basically everything except mecha for heal support.  Can't speak to druid after patch tho.

You mitigate, heal, mitigate heal. The concept isn't foreign at all and Vindicator has improved Revenant on that premise with the dodge.