Why does it feel like forum users, are trying to make this entire game mode into a gank session that require 0 skills/no boons or basically into a PvE focussed gameplay?

[zengara.8301]

Basically this. It is very obvious that by removing boons, this game becomes easy mode, just throw a bunch of damage and GG, since there are no timings for baiting boons nor any timings for stripping and spiking enemies. Every mmo game out there, I have seen, have not had a massive multiplayer that requires as much communication/movement and collective skill as in WvW (I really do not understand why nobody has yoinked this game mode. kitten works), I just do not get why people on the forum, wants WvW just to turn into every single already dead or dying PvP mmo out there, where it is simply a gank war or about ilvl gear. (These games are dying because nobody wants to log in, people have literally no chance because of numbers, rather than skill or lack of people/commanders etc)

 

Not saying this game mode is perfect, and that it at all times will consist of equal 1 to 1 perfect combat, nor that it can not be improved on. But it is still a million times better than a game depending on me grouping 10 people and ganking 1 or 2 players or doing a dungeon 5000 times for a gear piece, that nobody wanted to do.

Btw, just in case: I do understand that people play for a variety of different reasons. From PPT/Server community/Guilds vs Guilds/50vs50 etc. But what I just do not get at all, is just pushing for a ganking mentality

[Dawdler.8521]

So what you are saying is:

2 players dueling both with 25 might, swiftness, fury and regeneration = awesome hardcore skill based combat 

Same 2 players dueling with no boons at all = zero skill PvE focused combat based on gear levels

?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

1 hour ago, zengara.8301 said:

Basically this. It is very obvious that by removing boons, this game becomes easy mode, just throw a bunch of damage and GG, since there are no timings for baiting boons nor any timings for stripping and spiking enemies. Every mmo game out there, I have seen, have not had a massive multiplayer that requires as much communication/movement and collective skill as in WvW (I really do not understand why nobody has yoinked this game mode. kitten works), I just do not get why people on the forum, wants WvW just to turn into every single already dead or dying PvP mmo out there, where it is simply a gank war or about ilvl gear. (These games are dying because nobody wants to log in, people have literally no chance because of numbers, rather than skill or lack of people/commanders etc)

 

Not saying this game mode is perfect, and that it at all times will consist of equal 1 to 1 perfect combat, nor that it can not be improved on. But it is still a million times better than a game depending on me grouping 10 people and ganking 1 or 2 players or doing a dungeon 5000 times for a gear piece, that nobody wanted to do.

Btw, just in case: I do understand that people play for a variety of different reasons. From PPT/Server community/Guilds vs Guilds/50vs50 etc. But what I just do not get at all, is just pushing for a ganking mentality

The irony is with all these changes that's exactly what WvW has been turning into. A dying braindead game mode with a even more troubling ganking mentality.

First 2 years of what this game was needs to be what they drive it back into. Right now it's a chaotic mess with no actual direction. Feels like what WoW became a decade ago.

[zengara.8301]

6 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

The irony is with all these changes that's exactly what WvW has been turning into. A dying braindead game mode with a even more troubling ganking mentality.

First 2 years of what this game was needs to be what they drive it back into. Right now it's a chaotic mess with no actual direction. Feels like what WoW became a decade ago.

As I remember it, there was an army of thiefs and mesmers waiting for anyone walking alone to gank them? 

[zengara.8301]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

So what you are saying is:

2 players dueling both with 25 might, swiftness, fury and regeneration = awesome hardcore skill based combat 

Same 2 players dueling with no boons at all = zero skill PvE focused combat based on gear levels

?

1 thing is to want ganking in the game mode, another thing is to be straight up dishonest just to sway others. And even with the "1v1 extremely many boons" instead of GvG or blob vs blob....literally any scenario where the different skills is used together to reach a winning outcome. Even in this scenario:

 

The winner of the 2 players depends entirely on when they use their boons or bait enemy boons.=strategy

No boons, and just attack = mindless game mode

[Salt Mode.3780]

Actually in a PvE scenario is where you want all the boons to dps down a boss...I dont understand what you mean by turning WvW into PvE with no boons...

Boons is perfectly fine but not when its 1min+ long and not enough strips esp after spellbreaker wind nerf. 

The reason why Core days were so much better then this hot garbage is because you actually needed to know what fields to combo blast with. Nowadays one button and you can get those boons with ease. Remember you needed staff ele/staff guard to upkeep swiftness, or 2 staff guards/blast fire field for 25 might stacks?

Ofc not because clearly this post was clearly made by a player who played when HoT or POF dropped.

[Dawdler.8521]

13 minutes ago, zengara.8301 said:

No boons, and just attack = mindless game mode

Which must mean there is no dodging, skill usage, weapon swaps, stuns, build variants, traits, cooldowns, blocks, evades, teleports, invoulns, dazes, class specific utilities, reflect, stealth, healing and probably something else I missed in GW2 combat?

[KrHome.1920]

1 hour ago, zengara.8301 said:

The winner of the 2 players depends entirely on when they use their boons or bait enemy boons.=strategy

No boons, and just attack = mindless game mode

When people say the combat mechanic of GW2 is the best of the genre, then they do not refer to strategical boon application but active gameplay.

[Biermeister.4678]

Boon Ball's are a kitten to WvW only skill is for support players in keeping boons up most boon strips are 1boon per three players so out of 25 stacks that would make 1 boon off of a stack on three players 

It is a sad state of the game when the majority of a squad is boon support and not DPS 

The best fights in WvW are small scale roamer's with 4 to 6 in a party 

[Zyreva.1078]

If only applying boons required thinking and deliberate actions ...

The vast majority of boons are applied passively or as side effects of actions you were performing anyway. Now even more than ever.

And many players resort to ganking, because trying to 1vs1 (cele) builds that fart boons left and right results in an aweful slugfest more often than not.

Boons can result in skillful gameplay - but the way they are currently designed does the opposite.

[Hotride.2187]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

2 players dueling both with 25 might, swiftness, fury and regeneration = awesome hardcore skill based combat

How could you forget protection? Hello?

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which must mean there is no dodging, skill usage, weapon swaps, stuns, build variants, traits, cooldowns, blocks, evades, teleports, invoulns, dazes, class specific utilities, reflect, stealth, healing and probably something else I missed in GW2 combat?

Using terrain / jumping puzzles.

And jumping over attacks cause the game is special like that. Few players do this so understandable you don't mention it.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[zengara.8301]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which must mean there is no dodging, skill usage, weapon swaps, stuns, build variants, traits, cooldowns, blocks, evades, teleports, invoulns, dazes, class specific utilities, reflect, stealth, healing and probably something else I missed in GW2 combat?

At this point I am seriously not sure if you are just dishonest for the sake of "debating", personally not a fan of that. Either way, sure these factors are part of the player vs player, and the boons adds to it. I still do not really understand how you are trying to equate a 1v1 in wvw, when it is rather clearly group content, in other words cordination. As you mentioned, stealth, cc, bait dmg etc.

[zengara.8301]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

When people say the combat mechanic of GW2 is the best of the genre, then they do not refer to strategical boon application but active gameplay.

When I played some of the newer games that failed, like New World, most people in the forums talked exactly about WvW and the cordination in WvW. Never saw a single forum post in those games about the SPvP aspects of Guild Wars 2

[zengara.8301]

9 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

If only applying boons required thinking and deliberate actions ...

The vast majority of boons are applied passively or as side effects of actions you were performing anyway. Now even more than ever.

And many players resort to ganking, because trying to 1vs1 (cele) builds that fart boons left and right results in an aweful slugfest more often than not.

Boons can result in skillful gameplay - but the way they are currently designed does the opposite.

I dont fully disagree, with the idea that some boons are passive. But at the same time, the most important boons are applied very deliberately. SYG, book 3 chapter 4/5, bulwark, stab from rev, Aegis (which they did limit pretty hard) etc is probably some of the more important ones. And all of these are meant to either be baited or stripped and after they are gone, apply damage. 

 

I really do not know what kind of players are in the forums, it is weird to see this many people wanting boons gone

[Zyreva.1078]

17 minutes ago, zengara.8301 said:

I dont fully disagree, with the idea that some boons are passive. But at the same time, the most important boons are applied very deliberately. SYG, book 3 chapter 4/5, bulwark, stab from rev, Aegis (which they did limit pretty hard) etc is probably some of the more important ones. And all of these are meant to either be baited or stripped and after they are gone, apply damage. 

 

I really do not know what kind of players are in the forums, it is weird to see this many people wanting boons gone

Have you looked at EOD specs? Stab and aegis as mere sideeffects everywhere, sometimes designed in a way that you can't use them deliberately even if you tried. Also there are a lot more boons out there than just stab and aegis.

And most players don't want boons to be gone completely, just less abundant.

[Dawdler.8521]

46 minutes ago, zengara.8301 said:

At this point I am seriously not sure if you are just dishonest for the sake of "debating", personally not a fan of that. Either way, sure these factors are part of the player vs player, and the boons adds to it. I still do not really understand how you are trying to equate a 1v1 in wvw, when it is rather clearly group content, in other words cordination. As you mentioned, stealth, cc, bait dmg etc.

So between 50v50, 25vs25, 10vs10 or 1vs1, where do you draw the line? Is 2v2 suddenly group content? How many boons do they need until they become hardcore awesome skill based fighters?

Edited June 28, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Sleepwalker.1398]

4 hours ago, zengara.8301 said:

The winner of the 2 players depends entirely on when they use their boons dodges or bait enemy boons dodges.=strategy

I fixed above for you.

 

Game shouldn't be that you get carried by boons, can hide behind or get carried by your FBs or Scrappers cos very few skills have boon removal and the ones that do have been nerfed hard. 

 

[Dralor.3701]

5 hours ago, zengara.8301 said:

1 thing is to want ganking in the game mode, another thing is to be straight up dishonest just to sway others. And even with the "1v1 extremely many boons" instead of GvG or blob vs blob....literally any scenario where the different skills is used together to reach a winning outcome. Even in this scenario:

 

The winner of the 2 players depends entirely on when they use their boons or bait enemy boons.=strategy

No boons, and just attack = mindless game mode

I don’t think you are taking the power creep(or boon creep) into consideration. In “vanilla” we didn’t have some of the rune options we now have nor the elites. Just look at core guard vs firebrand for example and see all the additional goodies that got piled on.

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

That's funny, because there are currently "gank sessions" based on boon and stealth stacking.
There are also builds that have perma boons like might, fury, regeneration, protection and the only way to disturb that state is to have boon rips or corrupts, which not many classes have that.
Skillful gameplay was thrown through window in 2015 with HoT release.

[zengara.8301]

16 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I fixed above for you.

 

Game shouldn't be that you get carried by boons, can hide behind or get carried by your FBs or Scrappers cos very few skills have boon removal and the ones that do have been nerfed hard. 

 

Yeah, I like to use memes 10 years to late aswell. But in this scenario where everyone has maxed boons and 1 player acts like an entire blob, then yeah obviously whoever uses the right boons at the right time is going to win. And evades etc is important as well.

I already explained that equating a 1v1 with a zerg vs zerg is weird above?

 

Even though you are in a blob, you still need to dodge and use the right skills as you wrote above, so there is very much a limit to how much a FB or scrapper can "carry" anyone that is not good?

 

Still, even with all of this text. Weird "1v1 should equate group content", I have yet to see how removing boons would improve this game mode? Limiting the boons a bit, sure. But any kind of boon removal, will surely just end up in less communication/skill=hardcore content. Because why would I get on discord if I can just spam my damage buttons on enemies, instead of needing a timing?

[Hotride.2187]

2 minutes ago, zengara.8301 said:

Because why would I get on discord if I can just spam my damage buttons on enemies, instead of needing a timing?

Sorry, which boon other than stab needs timing again?

[zengara.8301]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Sorry, which boon other than stab needs timing again?

resistance? 

[MedievalThings.5417]

5 hours ago, zengara.8301 said:

As I remember it, there was an army of thiefs and mesmers waiting for anyone walking alone to gank them? 

Now it's streamers showing off their skill by fighting 1 or 2 people with 5 friends.

[zengara.8301]

Just now, Ubi.4136 said:

Now it's streamers showing off their skill by fighting 1 or 2 people with 5 friends.

I usually solo a 2v1

[zengara.8301]

Dude, im done 🤣

It is honestly just getting weirder and weirder. I can agree that boons could be limited a bit, but beyond that it just feels like a bunch of people in the forums either do not even play the game, or looking for debating weird none-connect stuff, for no reason- Thanks for some of the comments though