Does Anet just want to kill off Power Reaper PVE?

[Axl.8924]

Whats specifically terrible about this decision is that 30k DPS for a elite that cannot offer support that is wanted is a dead end.

Reaper should prob be at least 36kish dps if it was 36kish dps. 

Its fine to be 29-30k DPS if you are mainly a support build. If the support isn't up to snuff then it needs to be buffed to keep up with everything else otherwise its a dead end.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Axl.8924

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Whats specifically terrible about this decision is that 30k DPS for a elite that cannot offer support that is wanted is a dead end.

Reaper should prob be at least 36kish dps if it was 36kish dps. 

Its fine to be 29-30k DPS if you are mainly a support build. If the support isn't up to snuff then it needs to be buffed to keep up with everything else otherwise its a dead end.

They were too busy making sure mechanist has viable support healer, support hybrid, power DPS, and condi DPS options to worry about reaper and other selfish melee DPS builds being remotely competitive at the one thing they're able to do.  It's all part of the new vision...

[Nimon.7840]

42 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

They say they monitor metrics and adjust stuff if necessary, but I wouldn't expect any changes till at leat october 4th, if at all.

 

I don't know. They announced another balance patch early August and the one early October. 

There are currently a lot of builds that used to be good, but are pretty bad right now. Dragon hunter, reaper, Holo, power alac Ren, alac willbender,... 

 

Currently snowcrows have 5 power dps builds listed (ok 4 if you count longbow and warhorn soul east as one) and 12 condi DPS builds. That alone shows a lot how power builds suffered from the last patch.

 

At this point they either have to nerf those builds that bench >32k or buff the builds that bench lower (I'm talking about pure dps builds).

[Valisha.8650]

Yes please, buff pve reaper. Maybe rework axe while we are at it, too.

[Xerxez.7361]

6 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Yes please, buff pve reaper. Maybe rework axe while we are at it, too.

 

Staff could definitely use a rework for PvE.

[Kaladel.1670]

36 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

Staff could definitely use a rework for PvE.

We say that since 2012, tho... 😅

[soul.9651]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:03 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They were too busy making sure mechanist has viable support healer, support hybrid, power DPS, and condi DPS options to worry about reaper and other selfish melee DPS builds being remotely competitive at the one thing they're able to do.  It's all part of the new vision...

Watch them add some more buffs and QoL to mech in the next balance patch xd

[gajalu.8965]

Subli posted a Video of their first HT CM kill yesterday, as Power Reaper, pulling 29k over the entire fight. I'd say Power Reaper is anything but dead. Yes, we don't provide much support but we do provide incredibly consistent and reliable dps.

 

I personally still think Power Reaper is worth mastering and maining. We've got other specs to play support as. That's just the reality of what GW2 has become.

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, gajalu.8965 said:

Subli posted a Video of their first HT CM kill yesterday, as Power Reaper, pulling 29k over the entire fight. I'd say Power Reaper is anything but dead. Yes, we don't provide much support but we do provide incredibly consistent and reliable dps.

 

I personally still think Power Reaper is worth mastering and maining. We've got other specs to play support as. That's just the reality of what GW2 has become.

Consistent and reliable DPS is nice but the value of that depends entirely on how the encounter works and it's phasing. I would say  being consistent and reliable aren't as important as doing  the most DPS you can when it's needed. So, I'm going to disagree with the idea that Power Reaper has much value to a team. We have formal roles and we have Anet stating classes should also be actively supporting their team with secondary boon buffs like Fury and Might.

Any spec that does not do either of those things is a flavour spec, especially if they don't compete with meta level DPS. Flavour specs are the lowest value team members. Reaper is one of those classes. I don't believe the fact that a flavour spec participated in some of the hardest endgame content should persuade anyone there isn't lots of opportunity here for Anet to revisit Reaper as a spec for how it contributes to a team. 

Maybe Anet regards Reaper as sufficient because of it's OW performance. There are specs that do this, like Vindicator. So maybe what Reaper has is all we going to get. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[gajalu.8965]

I don't disagree with you and Reaper buffs would sure be nice, but the fact that the spec is good enough to beat the by far hardest content in the game in its current state should be reason enough to stop anybody from crying about the spec being unusable. Yes, perception and meta are sadly insanely strong in this game and cloud people's minds too much, but the truth is: the spec isn't as terrible as Snowcrows, Lucky Noobs, Hardstuck et al are portraying it as.

 

Most people just look at those websites, see that Reaper isn't listed in the benchmarks and doesn't even have a build, and think the spec is completely unusable and will instantly be kicked on party-join. And I just think the HT CM kill proves that power reaper is good enough for any PvE content currently in the game.

[Dadnir.5038]

29 minutes ago, gajalu.8965 said:

but the fact that the spec is good enough to beat the by far hardest content in the game

Well anything is good enough to beat the hardest content, that's not the issue. The issue is that players will naturally favor the specs/builds that are recognized as the optimum choices.

You can take a weaver, camp sword air attunment and only AA to beat the content, that won't make this choice of class and gameplay popular.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, gajalu.8965 said:

I don't disagree with you and Reaper buffs would sure be nice, but the fact that the spec is good enough to beat the by far hardest content in the game in its current state should be reason enough to stop anybody from crying about the spec being unusable. Yes, perception and meta are sadly insanely strong in this game and cloud people's minds too much, but the truth is: the spec isn't as terrible as Snowcrows, Lucky Noobs, Hardstuck et al are portraying it as.

 

Most people just look at those websites, see that Reaper isn't listed in the benchmarks and doesn't even have a build, and think the spec is completely unusable and will instantly be kicked on party-join. And I just think the HT CM kill proves that power reaper is good enough for any PvE content currently in the game.

Well, it's good enough to be carried by the other classes in the hardest content at worst. Put it this way ... that particular run would have been smoother and easier for the team if Reaper wasn't used. The proof will be in the first time someone short mans HT CM ... it's coming. When that happens, it's proof that there is at least ONE slot in a team that can be carried and anyone playing anything can fill it. 

I think we need to establish something here. What is 'usable' is completely dependent on the player. I've seen players completely fall flat with the optimal meta builds. I've seen players completely destroy things in green gear and random traits. It's not about the spec or the build that determines success in this game. So when we talk about how 'good' Reaper is, videos of people using it to clear hard content really doesn't mean much. 

Bottomline is that Reaper needs something to make it valuable in a team.

1. It needs a formal role: unlikely to happen

2. It needs secondary team buffs (Fury.Might, etc...) more likely

3. It needs a unique buff (unlikely, Anet are scrapping those all over the place)

4. It needs Meta level DPS (unlikely, considering how heavily loaded it already is with Offensive buffs)

Edited July 22, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Josiah.2967]

I officially was asked to change my spec... 

We either need to provide support where we are or have the damage to justify the lack of any support.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Josiah.2967

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, Josiah.2967 said:

I officially was asked to change my spec... 

We either need to provide support where we are or have the damage to justify the lack of any support.

Isn't it better than in HoT? At least they don't ask you to switch character now.

[Axl.8924]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, it's good enough to be carried by the other classes in the hardest content at worst. Put it this way ... that particular run would have been smoother and easier for the team if Reaper wasn't used. The proof will be in the first time someone short mans HT CM ... it's coming. When that happens, it's proof that there is at least ONE slot in a team that can be carried and anyone playing anything can fill it. 

I think we need to establish something here. What is 'usable' is completely dependent on the player. I've seen players completely fall flat with the optimal meta builds. I've seen players completely destroy things in green gear and random traits. It's not about the spec or the build that determines success in this game. So when we talk about how 'good' Reaper is, videos of people using it to clear hard content really doesn't mean much. 

Bottomline is that Reaper needs something to make it valuable in a team.

1. It needs a formal role: unlikely to happen

2. It needs secondary team buffs (Fury.Might, etc...) more likely

3. It needs a unique buff (unlikely, Anet are scrapping those all over the place)

4. It needs Meta level DPS (unlikely, considering how heavily loaded it already is with Offensive buffs)

I thought the whole point of nerfing sustain was to give reapers viable DPS that competes with others and that they were trying to give reapers outside of shroud viable meta DPS?
 

What the kitten ANET?

Reapers cannot tank they don't fit the role

Reapers cannot Compete DPS its far far below necessary DPS

Reapers cannot compete in support it is mostly selfish and only works in open world.

This is not good enough ANET you need to do better reaper is going to be auto kicked again like in 2017.

Either you buff reaper to 36-37k or you nerf every class down to reaper level.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Wintermute.5408]

20 hours ago, gajalu.8965 said:

Subli posted a Video of their first HT CM kill yesterday, as Power Reaper, pulling 29k over the entire fight.

You do realize that quickness harbinger of all things has more DPS than power reaper? And don't get me started on reliability and scourge. This is a joke.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Wintermute.5408

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Reapers cannot tank they don't fit the role lack the necessary extra support expected from a tank.

Reapers cannot Compete DPS its far far below necessary meta DPS professions.

I fixed it for you.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I thought the whole point of nerfing sustain was to give reapers viable DPS that competes with others and that they were trying to give reapers outside of shroud viable meta DPS?
 

What the kitten ANET?

Reapers cannot tank they don't fit the role

Reapers cannot Compete DPS its far far below necessary DPS

Reapers cannot compete in support it is mostly selfish and only works in open world.

This is not good enough ANET you need to do better reaper is going to be auto kicked again like in 2017.

Either you buff reaper to 36-37k or you nerf every class down to reaper level.

I still could be. Anet's mode of operation here seems to be to make their changes and see how the change affects how much the spec is played. Maybe the amount it's played isn't low enough to warrant improving it. There is also the fact that it's highly questions Anet would consider buffing something just because it wasn't viable meta DPS. If you think about that, the reasoning is ... not sensible. It's essentially getting a DPS buff just because someone else's is higher than yours. That's pretty trivial. 

I think at this point, we should acknowledge the best way to a team's heart isn't more DPS; it's some kind of supportive tool, the more unique the better. The field for competing for team spot as a DPSer is just too full. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I fixed it for you.

Thanks

 

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I still could be. Anet's mode of operation here seems to be to make their changes and see how the change affects how much the spec is played. Maybe the amount it's played isn't low enough to warrant improving it. There is also the fact that it's highly questions Anet would consider buffing something just because it wasn't viable meta DPS. If you think about that, the reasoning is ... not sensible. It's essentially getting a DPS buff just because someone else's is higher than yours. That's pretty trivial. 

I think at this point, we should acknowledge the best way to a team's heart isn't more DPS; it's some kind of supportive tool, the more unique the better. The field for competing for team spot as a DPSer is just too full. 

 

Reaper could give some buffs to others that would be nice but there are specs out there that can give buffs and have meta DPS:

[Obtena.7952]

24 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Reaper could give some buffs to others that would be nice but there are specs out there that can give buffs and have meta DPS:

Yeah at this point, Reaper is looking pretty left behind. I think if it was to be made desirable as a spec, it would need a combination of things. Frankly, I don't think anything can be done with lesser specs until the superstar team players get some nerfs. FB, Mech ... as normal, I don't think Anet is aware or cares about the relative performance of these things to other specs ... so they just exist as is.

Until then, I play what I want because I like it. I advise everyone else to do the same. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Nimon.7840]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:48 PM, gajalu.8965 said:

I don't disagree with you and Reaper buffs would sure be nice, but the fact that the spec is good enough to beat the by far hardest content in the game in its current state should be reason enough to stop anybody from crying about the spec being unusable. Yes, perception and meta are sadly insanely strong in this game and cloud people's minds too much, but the truth is: the spec isn't as terrible as Snowcrows, Lucky Noobs, Hardstuck et al are portraying it as.

 

Most people just look at those websites, see that Reaper isn't listed in the benchmarks and doesn't even have a build, and think the spec is completely unusable and will instantly be kicked on party-join. And I just think the HT CM kill proves that power reaper is good enough for any PvE content currently in the game.

 

Did you watch the DPS charts in that kill? I didn't see it. But from the kills I saw there were basically 2 full DPS spots in each of the kills. All other players brought a lot of utility like blink and portals. Sure if you can reliably always hit the boss because you don't have to do any mechanics doing 29k is possible. Doing 29k while doing mechanics is a lot harder and since reaper doesn't offer any utility like double blinks or portals I doubt that that reaper did any mechanics.

 

Currently there's only 2 things reaper is good at: cleave without having to target something and pretty good ae- cc with the elite shout (very high cool down)

 

HTcm offers some mechanics that can be "abused":

1. Power classes can use a night sigil to get a permanent +10% dmg

2. Mobs killed will give stacks for stacking sigils which is pretty good if your build can afford to bring something like the ferocity stacking sigil

 

But those things can't be "abused" everywhere so. While I agree that reaper isn't as bad as some people say, imo it does need some buffs. Either them being on the boon or on the dmg side (yes I know that some of the highest dps builds that exist right now, can bring a 50% uptime of fury for example)

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

 

Did you watch the DPS charts in that kill? I didn't see it. But from the kills I saw there were basically 2 full DPS spots in each of the kills. All other players brought a lot of utility like blink and portals. Sure if you can reliably always hit the boss because you don't have to do any mechanics doing 29k is possible. Doing 29k while doing mechanics is a lot harder and since reaper doesn't offer any utility like double blinks or portals I doubt that that reaper did any mechanics.

 

Currently there's only 2 things reaper is good at: cleave without having to target something and pretty good ae- cc with the elite shout (very high cool down)

 

HTcm offers some mechanics that can be "abused":

1. Power classes can use a night sigil to get a permanent +10% dmg

2. Mobs killed will give stacks for stacking sigils which is pretty good if your build can afford to bring something like the ferocity stacking sigil

 

But those things can't be "abused" everywhere so. While I agree that reaper isn't as bad as some people say, imo it does need some buffs. Either them being on the boon or on the dmg side (yes I know that some of the highest dps builds that exist right now, can bring a 50% uptime of fury for example)

Whats worse is some dps can not only give boons such as guardian but their dps is like 20-30% higher..

They can give a bunch of boons pluus also get 37k DPS or something.

If reaper stays as is everyone else has to be mega nerfed then  as well.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Methuselah.4376]

Thing is, if Reaper remains a selfish class, it would actually be very easy to boost the numbers on it. I had proposed certain trait additions that, in my opinion, were not busted and could easily take reaper to 36-37k. At this stage, Anet have no leg to stand on as to regards why Reaper remains in its sorry state; its sustain has been nerfed, it gives no utility, its main defensive feature is also its best offensive power which if used for defense it then hampers it's dps, cannot be healed while in shroud etc. 

Who knows, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised soon (LOL). 

[Nimon.7840]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:48 PM, gajalu.8965 said:

I don't disagree with you and Reaper buffs would sure be nice, but the fact that the spec is good enough to beat the by far hardest content in the game in its current state should be reason enough to stop anybody from crying about the spec being unusable. Yes, perception and meta are sadly insanely strong in this game and cloud people's minds too much, but the truth is: the spec isn't as terrible as Snowcrows, Lucky Noobs, Hardstuck et al are portraying it as.

 

Most people just look at those websites, see that Reaper isn't listed in the benchmarks and doesn't even have a build, and think the spec is completely unusable and will instantly be kicked on party-join. And I just think the HT CM kill proves that power reaper is good enough for any PvE content currently in the game.

 

I actually watched sublis video. And subli did 22-23k dps, which doesn't sound bad.

But: 

If you compare the snowcrows kill to that. Every of their virtuosos did 22k dps, while also doing greens!

And if I remember correctly their dps slots did around 28 to 29k

That's 30% more!

 

Yes you can kill the hardest content in the game with reaper, but should you do that? - probably not, since there actually is a enrage mechanic in every single dragon phase