What universe are devs living in where Catalyst was "meta-defining"? Because it sure isn't this one.

[Silverpoopoo.1476]

A few of the top 0.01% guild statics started stacking Catalyst to clear raids faster, and Anet thinks that these speed runners are the new meta?

This is a joke.

Why is the game being balanced for the top 0.01% over-performers, when everyone else is playing differently?

Anet devs need to measure with real game data the classes that strike and raid LFG PUGs actually fill up with. This is what most players are actually playing. Most players are not in dedicated, highly optimized static guild groups.

Average players do NOT play elementalists of any spec in raids and strikes. It is not meta at all. I know this because when I play my elementalist, which has been my main since launch, I very often get asked by commanders to play something else that actually is meta. I have to regularly spend time explaining that even though my class is not meta, because I've been playing it for 9 years I can perform well enough with it that the commander won't regret bringing me. Or I just have to give up and switch classes.

It literally feels like the devs hate elementalist and take any excuse they can find to nerf it, while other clearly overpowered specs run rampant.

Why is it okay for mechs to be so strong that they are played in almost every PUG that forms, with commanders asking for them explicitly most of the time, but when some speed runners stack a few Catalysts, suddenly it's required to bring a massive nerf hammer?

Edited July 9, 2022 by Silverpoopoo.1476

[Fuchslein.8639]

Because it's ele. No one cares for this class, and this comes from an ele-main. Did you see the warrior-changes and the outcry after this? People want easy classes and don't care for ele or mesmer. So anet cares even less and will do everyhing to put their favorites in Front of erything uu...

 

I mean look at this, the thread is 5h old now and has no to nothing response. Just the normal confused trolls, thats it. Compare this to others classes who where discussed here and say me people acutally care for ele ...

Edited July 9, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[LadyKitty.6120]

When it comes to pure DPS meta, speedrunners are indeed the ones who create the meta comps since they push for the maximum DPS. Pug meta is a separate thing where builds with best "DPS/skill required" ratio rule and ofc a build with no rotation and 100% DPS uptime rules in such. (rifle/pistol+pistol kitless mechs, scourges, virtuosos, previously shortbow soulbeasts)

Since it's mostly tryhards playing cata and trying to push their gaming to extreme, guess they indeed use them as reference for the build while using more casual players for builds with lower skill floor and lower DPS ceiling since tryhards don't usually use builds below maximum DPS ceiling. (as evident from Snowcrows' site as they've omitted quite a bunch of commonly used builds since they don't serve their purpose of speedrunning at max DPS)

Edited July 9, 2022 by LadyKitty.6120

[SuavePuppy.2809]

The "meta" explanation made no sense and the trait like fix was clunky. They needed to fix the issue by not allowing so much passive quickness to be built by those not running support builds. The potential damage was out of line but this is one of those rare instances where they should have looked at lowering the ceiling slightly while not making the class even less appealing for the average player. 

[tekmo.3076]

Please ANet stop with the Elementalist nerfing because of the top 0.01% player base. Continual nerfing of a profession makes it less desirable to play and makes it seem like you didn’t properly test it before deploying the new profession. Stop punishing the majority of Elementalist players due to a minority group achieving high stats.

[Dante.1508]

They live in the Snowcrows world..

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

If you follow the strictest definition, Cata stacking was the most effective tactic available.  The most commonly run builds do not make those builds the meta, but simply common.  If anything, I think it is a testament to the raiding community that scourge stacking became a common tactic, instead of demanding the most difficult builds.  Some still do, though, and this is where Anets unstated fear comes in.

Despite all the lamentations to the contrary, Anet does want this game to be accessible and also to give players a wide range of viable builds and choices.  The biggest obstacle for viability in group content, however, is the social hurdle of acceptance.  The knowledge of cata stacking speedruns was growing, which would eventually lead to elitists demanding that every player stack catalysts in their runs.  The meta trickles down, to players trying to emulate elite groups, whether it is in a desire to join them or under the expectation that they'll have to learn their techniques eventually.

Though IMO they over-nerfed Catalyst.  

Edited July 10, 2022 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I guess that members of the discord talked about how great Catalyst performed in a very certain group-setup for a couple of selected encounters. I do not doubt that it had the capability to overperform as they claimed it in the notes, but the people in that discord do not reflect the player-base at all. It is an illustrious group of specialists and elite-players.

It feels as detached as if you would ask the teams of formula-1 to make suggestions about optimizing city traffic, civil road planning and pedestrian/bike management. They know a lot about cars, fast cars and race-tracks. But that cannot be copied to regular traffic.

Both the leak with its aftermath and the ongoing criticism, do not seem to have an impact to the management. They feel the urge to explain their decisions, but they do not feel the urge to change. They believe they are on the right track and we are just too dumb to understand their genius.

Please keep complaining and change playing habits as you feel comfortable. If there is a visible impact (money/reputation), they have to react to it. They cannot ignore everything forever.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

If you follow the strictest definition, Cata stacking was the most effective tactic available.  The most commonly run builds do not make those builds the meta, but simply common.  If anything, I think it is a testament to the raiding community that scourge stacking became a common tactic, instead of demanding the most difficult builds.  Some still do, though, and this is where Anets unstated fear comes in.

Despite all the lamentations to the contrary, Anet does want this game to be accessible and also to give players a wide range of viable builds and choices.  The biggest obstacle for viability in group content, however, is the social hurdle of acceptance.  The knowledge of cata stacking speedruns was growing, which would eventually lead to elitists demanding that every player stack catalysts in their runs.  The meta trickles down, to players trying to emulate elite groups, whether it is in a desire to join them or under the expectation that they'll have to learn their techniques eventually.

Though IMO they over-nerfed Catalyst.  

Bullkitten. Case in point: Tempest dps during early HoT times.

Tempest was in the exact spot Cata was recently, people knew it, and yet pugs weren;t asking for it, they preferred DHs and core condi rangers. Because everyone knew that those tempest numbers worked only in selected well-organized static squads, while in pugs they were a pure fiction.

You don't make the game accessible and give players a wide range of viable builds and choices by nerfing builds that are already played by next to noone. Or by buffin easy to play builds that are already popular. You do that by buffing underutilized builds, either by increasing their effectiveness, or by making them easier to play.

Which is something Anet devs practically never do.

[Wolfshade.9251]

Did you really think that being able to pull off a perfect complicated rotation with multiple animation locks should result in better damage? No. Little Timmy playing his random-trait, random-rune mechanist wants to press 111 and get the same loot.

*sigh* That's just the way things are heading man. Best you can do is keep your head high and play ele with pride, hoping that someday things change for the better.

[LKEY.9567]

1. Proclaim Catalyst stacking is a problem

2. Have your players catch you on the lie

3. Get rid of SPEC STACKING META-DEFINING

4. Create Rifle Mechanist

5. ...

6. Hehe

[Ashantara.8731]

12 minutes ago, LKEY.9567 said:

1. Proclaim Catalyst stacking is a problem

2. Have your players catch you on the lie

3. Get rid of SPEC STACKING META-DEFINING

4. Create Rifle Mechanist

5. ...

6. Hehe

That's called... "logic"? 😂