[Sugestion] Halve the Range of All Instant Move Abilites

[Malus.2184]

There's little to no CC on an individual basis, any Immonilization abilities are instantly countered by Stability and assorted movement skills that breaks Immobilzation. This creates an unhealthy gameplay style where there for some are no consequences to their actions since people can just run away if they're in trouble and suffer no consequences for intiating. This is especially an issue with Specters since they along with their Barrier, which works great without +Healing, can use their Wells to instantly escape after attacking or if the target manages to reach them. Since they usually have 2+ Wells they'll win the Distance game since it's rare that the opponent can match that. And since their damage is ranged the Wells  teleport them, gives them Boons as as well as they also have extreme Barrier, and Alac if they're specced for it, which they usually are in that configuration.

This is less of an issue when large groups fights large groups since the damage will usually down people faster than they can get away, however, in roaming situations it creates a really unhealthy encironment where the ones who can easily create distance between themselves and the attacker have a great benefit, especially if they're ranged already.

The title is hyperbolic, however, I do believe that Instant Movement abilities should have their ranges halved if they had no target and, if possible, were used to move away from a selected target. It would have zero practical impact on large-scale fights since you're dead if you move away from the pack anyway and are usually dead if you have to use them to escape, just that no one has killed you yet. While this does give an advantage to Stealth+Swiftness builds those are usually melee and Swiftness accessability is in most cases a lot lower and tied to other abilities.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Hotride.2187]

Is that one of those "lets nerf everything because that 1 build" thread?

[Malus.2184]

It's in more than one build. It's a general thing. Specter is the worst offender and thuse used for the example.  The Vindicator can do it as well, legit saw one do it across two subzones in WvW. They could make great distance and  then their heal would be off CD. Warrior can do it as well, though they mostly use it to get close to the enemy. Mesmer with Focus can Curtain+Blink and by the time you catch up with them they can do it again.

Pretty must everyone in some capabilities have access to abilities that can do this. I've seen a Holo do it with a mix of sword leap+Holo leap+Rocket Boots. Only one of those is a Utility skill.

Everyone is due to stomp compilation videos more concerned with performance instead of utility. The hard fact that people forget is that if you never die eventually you win.

[Zyreva.1078]

Stability does not counter immob and wells aren't instant. Specter isn't more mobile than other thief specs.

Roaming has always been dominated by mobile builds, because mobility is important for handling outnumbered situations. Nerfing mobility across the board (which warclaw already did indirectly) just hurts roaming (solo roaming in particular) and makes ganking outnumbered targets easier.

[Malus.2184]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:24 PM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Stability does not counter immob and wells aren't instant. Specter isn't more mobile than other thief specs.

What you're expressing is, "I have so much interrupt and stun that Wells are no issue." That means that your spec shopuld be looked at in PvP as well. And "not instant" is technically correct, it's contextually wrong though, as everything "technically correct" is as they have a ½ second cast. My main knockback also has a ½ second cast. By the time I discover that they're casting they'll complete theirs even if I hit mine instantly as they have the same cast time and mine is a reaction to theirs, Most interrupts have a similar cast time. So unless I cast before they do and they then start casting I'm unable to interrupt them.

So yes, potentially interruptable? Yes. Practically interruptable? No.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Kozumi.5816]

yeah, this game feels like watching DBZ and everyones teleportiing around. its really boring cause it takes zero(0) effort to run from fights

Edited July 9, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Svarty.8019]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:40 PM, Malus.2184 said:

I do believe that Instant Movement abilities should have their ranges halved if they had no target and, if possible, were used to move away from a selected target. 

I agree. Halving movement away from an enemy would result in more fights. Which is what everybody claims to want.

[Xenesis.6389]

I'd rather they nerf all teleports to needing line of sight to use, mainly the need target ones to match the place target ones.

And to anyone who wants to counter that argument with but it requires a target!, all skills that require a target are meant to be used as engage skills, not disengage as well, otherwise you would have the place target teleports instead, or charge/dash skills that freely gives you the option of both. Cooldowns and range also come into play for both types if anyone cares about balance.

But no one cares so enjoy your roadrunner roaming.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Kozumi.5816]

17 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

But no one cares so enjoy your roadrunner roaming.

The people who care quit years ago. Including Anet employees I bet.

[Justine.6351]

"Mesmer with focus can run away"

Lol...

You arnt by chance playing an unkillable facetanking bruiser build with no mobility are you? Cele harbringer? They arnt running away from a fight, they are skipping you.

[KrHome.1920]

Classes are just doing what thief is doing since 2012.

Besides that the server imbalance would make the game unplayable for everyone that is not on a bandwagon server. If I could not avoid all the 5 player gank squads on deso and sfr this week I would not play at all, because I couldn't even flip a camp without dying 5 times in the process.

[Warkind.6745]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:40 AM, Malus.2184 said:

Since they usually have 2+ Wells they'll win the Distance game since it's rare that the opponent can match that. 

A specter could fill their entire utility bar with wells, blow all of them to escape, and it wouldn't even bring them out of a soulbeast's longbow range.  Not really that rare.  If you can't cover 1200-1800 range or interrupt the cast time on those wells, you don't deserve the kill.

[Xenesis.6389]

17 minutes ago, Warkind.6745 said:

A specter could fill their entire utility bar with wells, blow all of them to escape, and it wouldn't even bring them out of a soulbeast's longbow range.  Not really that rare.  If you can't cover 1200-1800 range or interrupt the cast time on those wells, you don't deserve the kill.

Any spector that loads their bar with all wells deserves to die... practically no thief in wvw should be without shadowstep.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[oscuro.9720]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:14 AM, Malus.2184 said:

Warrior can do it as well, though they mostly use it to get close to the enemy. .

Warrior doesn’t have teleports, unless you just mean movement skills in general by “Instant movement”, but it seems the other classes you are pointing out all have ports. 
 

Regardless of which, a lot of ports in the game require a target. If you don’t want them to run away, kill them first. Port abuse is not very problematic right now, there’s much bigger fish to fry when it comes to balance. 

[Malus.2184]

5 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Warrior doesn’t have teleports, unless you just mean movement skills in general by “Instant movement”, but it seems the other classes you are pointing out all have ports. 

As the title say it's all instant movement skills because without a target they can be used extremely effectively to escape in WvW.. This is only an issue in WvW since in sPvP doing so only works if the opponent goes into Sunk Cost and starts following the escapee and ios lured away fro the node they were headed to/guarding.

[Malus.2184]

12 hours ago, Warkind.6745 said:

A specter could fill their entire utility bar with wells, blow all of them to escape, and it wouldn't even bring them out of a soulbeast's longbow range.  Not really that rare.  If you can't cover 1200-1800 range or interrupt the cast time on those wells, you don't deserve the kill.

What you are expressing is that since there's one or two counters out of 36 thern it's fine and perfectly balanced. Do you know how meta-exploitation builds work?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

If not halving the distance then take away all extra effects. Teleports should be Teleports, not attacks or things that inflict debuffs or buffs.

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

If not halving the distance then take away all extra effects. Teleports should be Teleports, not attacks or things that inflict debuffs or buffs.

If you want to start applying that kind of rule set, then you will have to go down a long list. There's a lot of passive flak that can be cut out of the game.

My main teleport is also one of my best condi clear utilities. If There were no secondary modifiers to be forced to blow a cooldown on then I would always have it ready to use. If you want the game to promote deliberate combat more, than you better be prepared to be alert and rely entirely on outplaying every attack and action. Some builds tend to attract players who are more tuned in to deliberate combat and movement.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

If you want to start applying that kind of rule set, then you will have to go down a long list. There's a lot of passive flak that can be cut out of the game.

My main teleport is also one of my best condi clear utilities. If There were no secondary modifiers to be forced to blow a cooldown on then I would always have it ready to use. If you want the game to promote deliberate combat more, than you better be prepared to be alert and rely entirely on outplaying every attack and action. Some builds tend to attract players who are more tuned in to deliberate combat and movement.

Not really going down a long list of anything. Itl be similar to Ele teleport or Mesmers. If you need cleanse you bring cleanse focused abilities, same for if you want damage boosting abilities or blocks.

[Justine.6351]

3 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Not really going down a long list of anything. Itl be similar to Ele teleport or Mesmers. If you need cleanse you bring cleanse focused abilities, same for if you want damage boosting abilities or blocks.

Blink has a stunbreak.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

I suppose OP hasn't met a Gadgeteer traited Rifle Mech with 2x Rocket Boots and Shift Signet.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

2 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Blink has a stunbreak.

Is it not a movement ability?

[Warkind.6745]

On 7/15/2022 at 2:07 AM, Malus.2184 said:

What you are expressing is that since there's one or two counters out of 36 thern it's fine and perfectly balanced. Do you know how meta-exploitation builds work?

If you can only think of one or two ways to CC a cast-time or close distance, you've got bigger problems than specter wells.

[Malus.2184]

 

32 minutes ago, Warkind.6745 said:

If you can only think of one or two ways to CC a cast-time or close distance, you've got bigger problems than specter wells.

I can think of only one as long as m,y interrupt have the same cast time. Precasting and hoping that they decide to cast at the same time. And I can use various moiement abilities to catch up to them, hopwever, I would have to scrifice more to get them than they would, in that specific case, for others like the Vindicator it'sa full package that's meant to be used offensively and can also be used to escape consequence free.

I also always find dishonest when people say something like this without mentioning specific examples. IF they had specific examples they would say them in order to prove that they're superior. This kind of vagueposting does nothing to prove your point. It makes it look quite weak IMO.

[Warkind.6745]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

 

I can think of only one as long as m,y interrupt have the same cast time. Precasting and hoping that they decide to cast at the same time. And I can use various moiement abilities to catch up to them, hopwever, I would have to scrifice more to get them than they would, in that specific case, for others like the Vindicator it'sa full package that's meant to be used offensively and can also be used to escape consequence free.

I also always find dishonest when people say something like this without mentioning specific examples. IF they had specific examples they would say them in order to prove that they're superior. This kind of vagueposting does nothing to prove your point. It makes it look quite weak IMO.

My man, if you want a list of CC skills for your class, hit the wiki.  Anything under 3/4 of a second will do you good.  I recommend you look for solutions, not excuses.