Harvest Temple CM <1%

[Danikat.8537]

BTW the Summer Roadmap mentions updates to starter map world bosses and changes to Fractal instabilities as well as the next episode of Season 1 so it's pretty clear they're not ignoring other game modes just because they introduced another strike CM.

 

(It also mentions another WvW restructuring beta, but I wouldn't compare another test for a system they hope to introduce eventually to actually updating content.)

[disco.9302]

1 hour ago, Heibi.4251 said:

Why create content that no one wants to really repeat. 

I guess nobody would want to repeat content for exclusive rare drops like the imp blossom infusion which could sell for an exorbitant price.🤔

Weekly raid CMs have been a thing and are going to be revamped to be more valuable from June 19th. 

Yes, the HT CM is currently inaccessible to the vast majority of the community but this is such a small fragment of the entire game that it doesn't have to be hated on.

As everyone has already mentioned, the strike will become more popular once strats are widely available and maybe it gets changed (who knows).

Yes, HT CM is the hardest content currently, more so than CMs on raids but we can all agree that regular mode strikes are less punishing than most raids and therefore still a stepping stone (loosely).

 

TLDR; GW2 is better with hard content being available, even if it is for a small minority.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Giving single hard encounter every 5 years is too much for some people. Quite selfish don't you think?

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I assume they have metrics from comparable content to know whether people repeat play or not to make that decision. So whether people will replay it has probably been answered in advance.

Those same metrics that told them to stop developing Raids?

[mythical.6315]

11 hours ago, Heibi.4251 said:

you created a CM that is even harder than Doom CM. Seriously, that is not an intro to Raids. You've bypassed Raid CM difficulty.

Honestly the raid CMs were not really all that difficult to begin with. For example, Dhuum CM is more about situational awareness. If you can pay attention to where the Echo is then it’s really not all that different from the normal fight. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Solstice.5790]

Extremely hard content for the top few % who are engaged by stuff like that is imo generally a good thing to have in a game.

I personally don't care about those achievements, don't have time to read the titles in game anyways... But there are those who enjoy it and want to put in the work, so yay, good for them.

But looking at the SC world first and their group composition (having in mind the fact that they just hit Catalyst for class stacking in high lvl 10 mans), I'm worried about the meaning of "bring the player, not the class". Because people already simply stop bringing "the other classes" to content of that level, fueling right into the limitation and unification people are displeased with lately.

 

I'm not against hard content, several posts above stated other good reasons for it.

But I'm not sure know if anet can get it to a) be hard and b) for everyone.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Solstice.5790

[yavi.3105]

20 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I was with you until this part. People really need to stop abusing this word and calling people entitled just because they want something.

Absolutely agree - but here people don't want something, they want everything and they want content that is unappealing to them to not be created. This is where the word fits in my opinion, they are entitled.

Quote

You miss my point for the most part.  Strikes were supposed to be an "Introduction to raids."

As told before, no, EoD strikes are not introduction to anything. You are confused 🙂
 

19 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Why create content that no one wants to really repeat

Mage Tower in WoW. Any of the legendary gen2 journeys in GW2. Most achievements. This is just plainly false, not everything needs to be farm.

 

Quote

The end game meta and Dragon's End is replayable and enjoyable now that it is balanced better

Nice way to say "nerfed to the ground to the point of being semi-afk" 😉

Edited July 15, 2022 by yavi.3105

[Labjax.2465]

1 hour ago, yavi.3105 said:

Absolutely agree - but here people don't want something, they want everything and they want content that is unappealing to them to not be created. This is where the word fits in my opinion, they are entitled.

Not to get too pedantic about this, but for the sake of not misusing the word entitled, I would more call that self-centered or selfish; they are worried that focus on this will mean content they like gets made less. Which is a valid concern, but also kind of a selfish outlook, for an MMO especially where many different groups get appealed to, typically. I'd think entitled only fits if their attitude exhibits a belief that they deserve to have all content made specifically for them as an individual.

[Heibi.4251]

3 hours ago, yavi.3105 said:

 

As told before, no, EoD strikes are not introduction to anything. You are confused 🙂
 

 

Um, you are quite mistaken.

"Strike Missions are 10 player squad-based PvE instances, usually consisting of a boss battle, that serve as a bridge between open world and raid difficulty. They are one of the core pillars of Guild Wars 2's endgame designed for level 80 characters."

" These instances are designed to be something you can tackle alongside both close friends and new allies, pitting you and nine others against jazzed-up, remixed versions of epic, exciting bosses from the Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons story. This gives every player the opportunity to experience these encounters as key story moments, while enabling each Strike Mission to hold greater importance in the overall narrative. These encounters will introduce you to the mechanics you’ll need to learn and master in order to continue your journey, in an environment that doesn’t demand perfection but still pushes you to learn and grow your combat capabilities."

[samsar.9152]

22 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

I guess nobody would want to repeat content for exclusive rare drops like the imp blossom infusion which could sell for an exorbitant price.🤔

Weekly raid CMs have been a thing and are going to be revamped to be more valuable from June 19th. 

Yes, the HT CM is currently inaccessible to the vast majority of the community but this is such a small fragment of the entire game that it doesn't have to be hated on.

As everyone has already mentioned, the strike will become more popular once strats are widely available and maybe it gets changed (who knows).

Yes, HT CM is the hardest content currently, more so than CMs on raids but we can all agree that regular mode strikes are less punishing than most raids and therefore still a stepping stone (loosely).

 

TLDR; GW2 is better with hard content being available, even if it is for a small minority.

I have found certain normal mode strike mission encounters like Whisper of Jormag, Boneskinner,  Kaineng Overlook and Harvest Temple harder than many easier raid encounters and bosses. 

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, yavi.3105 said:

Absolutely agree - but here people don't want something, they want everything and they want content that is unappealing to them to not be created. This is where the word fits in my opinion, they are entitled.

According to this definition almost everyone in this game is entitled. Because all that is needed to call someone this is for said person to disagree with introducing something at least one person wants.

i.e. using your reasoning as basis, everyone that argued against easy mode raids would be entitled. The same for everyone arguing against duels. Or even open world PvP.

By this point that word starts to lose any meaning whatsoever.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[triada.6245]

I'm surprised everyone is discussing the difficulty but no one is discussing how boring this encounter actually is.

I mean, all they did is borrowed an old mechanic from KC and increased numbers. Thats it. Most mechanics don't even feel fair. Hitboxes to half the arena, you stay for a millisecond and it's a wipe. Pressed the portal a millisecond earlier, you died and it's a wipe. Laggedd for a millisecond, didnt get in time to the green, wipe. Someone did not jump over the shockwave - wipe. The giants did not stand perfectly = wipe. Wipe Wipe Wipe Wipe Wipe. Game here behave like a little cranky kid. You should give in to let him win.

 Just imagine, even for Dhuum CM, seven people were enough for the last phase, and I generally beat it with six. For Soo-won you need at least eight, just for mechanics, and if you lost one or two teamates before the last phase, you don’t even try, you will be screwed by the numbers.

Numbers. That's the main problem with this fight. The numbers can make anything difficult, even the rabbit from starting location. Will it be interesting? I don't think so. The same thing happened here, and it's very sad that the developers chose the laziest way to design this encounter. Unprofessionalism as it is.

[Randulf.7614]

7 hours ago, yavi.3105 said:

Absolutely agree - but here people don't want something, they want everything and they want content that is unappealing to them to not be created. This is where the word fits in my opinion, they are entitled.

As told before, no, EoD strikes are not introduction to anything. You are confused 🙂
 

Mage Tower in WoW. Any of the legendary gen2 journeys in GW2. Most achievements. This is just plainly false, not everything needs to be farm.

 

Nice way to say "nerfed to the ground to the point of being semi-afk" 😉

Think it’s erroneously quoted me there, but I didn’t write that, someone else did

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, triada.6245 said:

I'm surprised everyone is discussing the difficulty but no one is discussing how boring this encounter actually is.

Depends on the players and what they prefer really. The groups which cleared the encounter seemed to have had enough fun to finish it.

It just might be that others don't share your opinion, hence why this isn't being discussed.

Quote

I mean, all they did is borrowed an old mechanic from KC and increased numbers. Thats it. Most mechanics don't even feel fair. Hitboxes to half the arena, you stay for a millisecond and it's a wipe. Pressed the portal a millisecond earlier, you died and it's a wipe. Laggedd for a millisecond, didnt get in time to the green, wipe. Someone did not jump over the shockwave - wipe. The giants did not stand perfectly = wipe. Wipe Wipe Wipe Wipe Wipe. Game here behave like a little cranky kid. You should give in to let him win.

You literally just summed up mistakes and then criticized that the encounter design punishes them.

Hitboxes half of the arena? Learn to move in time or use movement skills or else you are making a mistake.

Pressed the portal to early? That's a mistake. Learn your timings.

Didn't make green? That's a mistake. Yes, lag or a bad internet connection will be an issue here, as will being late for a green because one was late.

Enemy packing and controlling them? That requires practice and doing it poorly or incorrect or not at all, again all mistakes which can be fixed.

Yes, the game play needed here is far tighter than any encounter so far. It's actually challenging game play around an encounter, and not around allowing for dozens of mistakes to be made.

Quote

 Just imagine, even for Dhuum CM, seven people were enough for the last phase, and I generally beat it with six. For Soo-won you need at least eight, just for mechanics, and if you lost one or two teamates before the last phase, you don’t even try, you will be screwed by the numbers.

 

That's just the issue, raids in general are not hard. What makes them hard is understanding how the game works. No boss which can be 5 manned is a serious threat or difficult. A difficult boss would have to bee tuned to require 10 players to work together properly.

The fact that Dhuum CM CAN be beaten with so few players, even if very strong players, just goes to show how far off from being a challenging fight it is.

Quote

Numbers. That's the main problem with this fight. The numbers can make anything difficult, even the rabbit from starting location. Will it be interesting? I don't think so. The same thing happened here, and it's very sad that the developers chose the laziest way to design this encounter. Unprofessionalism as it is.

and yet a lot of players enjoyed watching the race to world first. The teams all had to come up with strategies to tackle and solve the encounter.

Dhuum CM while certainly an interesting fight, took a fraction of the time and was solved back when the raid community was barely matured experience wise.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[A Hamster.2580]

Harvest Temple CM was not some separate encounter from HT normal and HT story mode that Anet worked on only for the <1%. The way I understood it was Challenge mode was made first, then toned down to create normal mode. Then further toned down to create a story mode version which is in the "The Only One" story step. They only delayed releasing the CM to fix bugs and polishing.

 

If I recall, the reason they stopped making Raids was because not enough players play it to justify development time. With the method mentioned above, they have created this HT content that is aimed at players of all skill levels while making making the most of development time. It's genius.

 

If you want to play it solo and have a chill time, just play the story step "The Only One". If you want to play it with friends/guildies, just play the normal mode. I do not understand why the thread creator feels the need to exclude people just because they are a minority. If you feel it is ok to exclude <1% of the population, at what point would you stop? <2%? <5%? Look inward.

Edited July 16, 2022 by A Hamster.2580

[triada.6245]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

It just might be that others don't share your opinion, hence why this isn't being discussed.

 

No, this is because most players haven't tried to play it themselves. Let me explain what your gameplay on Soo Won looks like.
You starting the fight. Then something happens. You type /gg. Thats it. This is literally your only gameplay here, this whole encounter is a pure slash gee gee simulator. Only because you need ten people for the last phase, or you won't pass through the numbers.

Did the players who beat it had some fun from the encounter itself? I don't think so. At least it didn't look like that on streams. They only looked fun when they were done with it, because it meant they didn't have to waste any more time on this poorly designed instance.

Was it fun to watch the race? Yes, quite interesting. But the race is over, the hype is over, and i suppose it is time to think about gameplay itself.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, triada.6245 said:

No, this is because most players haven't tried to play it themselves. Let me explain what your gameplay on Soo Won looks like.
You starting the fight. Then something happens. You type /gg. Thats it. This is literally your only gameplay here, this whole encounter is a pure slash gee gee simulator. Only because you need ten people for the last phase, or you won't pass through the numbers.

Yes it is, because mistakes are being made the entire time.

Mistakes were made at Jormag -> we gg'ed. Now Jormag is rather safe and smooth.

Mistakes were made at Primordus and/or the first damage check failed-> we gg'ed. Now it's smooth.

Mistakes were made at Krakatorik -> we gg'ed. Now we get through without issues.

Mistakes were/are being made at Mordremoth -> we gg'ed. Now he is pretty safe.

Mistakes are being made at Zhaitan and we are working on getting past the phase.

 

and once that phase is down, it goes on to the next for us. Thanks for explaining though.

Want me to recall how the Dhuum CM encounter went for comparison? Let me summarize: we got lucky/unlucky on add (hey, it might get stuck), get your dps up, okay everything worked out, done.

Quote

Did the players who beat it had some fun from the encounter itself? I don't think so. At least it didn't look like that on streams. They only looked fun when they were done with it, because it meant they didn't have to waste any more time on this poorly designed instance.

Was it fun to watch the race? Yes, quite interesting. But the race is over, the hype is over, and i suppose it is time to think about gameplay itself.

That assumption, and this is your personal assumption at this point, is neither reflected in any of the commentary of the players after finishing it, nor in any description given by them. It also is not reflected in the large amount of time spent on the content.

 

Now don't get me wrong: You might not enjoy this type of content, which is far closer to raid progression raiding and overcoming a challenge versus just farming something down, but don't assume that everyone agrees with you on this. Best proof of this is WoW mythic raiding and FF14 savage raiding which are pretty much similar to HT CM and are being enjoyed by those games high end player base.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[triada.6245]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That assumption, and this is your personal assumption at this point, is neither reflected in any of the commentary of the players after finishing it, nor in any description given by them. It also is not reflected in the large amount of time spent on the content.

Yes, this is my and my group's personal expirience. Should i public someone else's opinion on forums instead of my own?
Which large amount of time you are talking about? Most people dont even playing it atm, because it is just a waste of time for them.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, triada.6245 said:

Yes, this is my and my group's personal expirience. Should i public someone else's opinion on forums instead of my own?
Which large amount of time you are talking about? Most people dont even playing it atm, because it is just a waste of time for them.

You made a public statement about your opinion as though it was applicable to everyone, I disagreed and gave examples of where and how I disagree and how there is players enjoying this content.

Yes, most people don't play it. And? Most players also don't do Dhuum CM (and even more have bought it over the years).

I don't get to disagree and counter argue your opinion? I already agree: maybe this encounter is not for you.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[triada.6245]

7 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You made a public statement about your opinion as though it was applicable to everyone

I never said things like "everyone" or something like this, keep away your imagination from me please. I only believe that a significant part of the players do not want to play this encounter for various reasons, including one that is identical to what I described.

As for the Dhuum CM, I also believe that many more players would prefer to play it instead of Soo-Won, but if you have any inside information or statistics about this, please share with us. Otherwise, keep your guesses to yourself.

[Cyninja.2954]

10 minutes ago, triada.6245 said:

I never said things like "everyone" or something like this, keep away your imagination from me please. I only believe that a significant part of the players do not want to play this encounter for various reasons, including one that is identical to what I described.

No, you merely:

1. gave some wierd explanation of how this is merely KC but in hard, because 1 of the mechanics is similar

2. suggested that the players that invested far more time into this content did it without enjoying it

3. made some comparisons to Dhuum CM essentially explaining that bosses should be balanced around being able to be low manned

Again, this content is not for you then. That's fine.

Quote

As for the Dhuum CM, I also believe that many more players would prefer to play it instead of Soo-Won, but if you have any inside information or statistics about this, please share with us. Otherwise, keep your guesses to yourself.

I think most players that do Dhuum CM are doing so for 1 reason only by this time: raid selling. This might increase with the change to raid CMs slightly, but not to much. The content is on farm and the only remote challenge it brings is low manning it and/or selling off that work.

Do I think more players are doing Dhuum CM versus HT CM? Absolutely. Similar to how far more players play open world versus raids.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[triada.6245]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No, you merely:

1. gave some wierd explanation of how this is merely KC but in hard, because 1 of the mechanics is similar

2. suggested that the players that invested far more time into this content did it without enjoying it

3. made some comparisons to Dhuum CM essentially explaining that bosses should be balanced around being able to be low manned

1. They literally got this mechanic with three green circles from KC, thats a fact you cant argue with. Dont even try.
2. Just my observation. Wrote how it looked like to me.
3. Why shouldn't we compare two encounters fom the same game?

[Cyninja.2954]

4 minutes ago, triada.6245 said:

1. They literally got this mechanic with three green circles from KC, thats a fact you cant argue with. Dont even try.

No, they literally got the mechanic from VG. The one for KC was an alteration on that one. They've reused the green circle mechanic in very many fights with differing results if failed or succeeded. It's called: keep mechanics identifiable.

Quote

2. Just my observation. Wrote how it looked like to me.

and that observation was not reflected in any of the comments made by any of the players which have completed the fight. Glad we could clear that up.

Quote

3. Why shouldn't we compare two encounters fom the same game?

 

No reason not too. Depends on what the goal is of the comparison.My position is an encounter on farm is not comparable to a new encounter which is a lot more difficult if the goal is to have difficult content.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[triada.6245]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No, they literally got the mechanic from VG. The one for KC was an alteration on that one.

Three circles, two ppl each. This is literally KC, have no idea what VG are you talking about.

 

The purpose of comparison is to compare. For you it's might be a farm, for someone else its just the same first attempt as Soo-won for you. Dosnt change anything.

[Cyninja.2954]

4 minutes ago, triada.6245 said:

Three circles, two ppl each. This is literally KC, have no idea what VG are you talking about.

VG green, 4 players in or take large damage.

KC alteration: more circles, less players, harsher punishment because players were starting to heal through VG green or distorting them (which has a range limit and didn't work against KC green insta-down). It's an alteration on VG green taking into account what players came up with to counter it, even if you can't tell.

Quote

 

The purpose of comparison is to compare. For you it's might be a farm, for someone else its just the same first attempt as Soo-won for you. Dosnt change anything.

No it doesn't and some will enjoy the fight, others won't. Just as how players were unhappy with Dhuum CMs difficulty when it released, some at least. While others enjoyed the fight. Funny how that goes.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954