Just what is the point of necro anymore?

[Parpage.9867]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Here is the good part ... people that play Reaper DO have reasons to play it, even if other classes like mechanist exists. There is no "you SHOULD use" in this game ... unless you are going to push meta on people that don't care about it.

Oh man the famous Atena giving his hot take about necro! Man i couldn't wait for it 🙂

I don't care about meta or speed running as well, but for the love of God stop pretending that reaper is fine. He's not. I've already made my point of how sad this spec and how much it desperately needs (and deserve) a rework for his power weapons and shouts are just pathetic. But you can keep you head under the sand and pretend that everything is fine the choice is yours 

[Polar.8634]

In PvE scourge still has good DPS which is easy to pull off plus barier plus strips. U got strip is traits, on scepter and 2 strong utility skills. There is a reason why scourge is default strip class in wvw. Reaper i use for open world sometimes wvw. Harbinger is op in wvw, pvp and is strong DPS and quick DPS in PvE.

Oh, almost forgot heal scourge exists. Perfect carry for newer players, i take in strike or raid sometimes if no KP group 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Polar.8634

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Buff Reaper! Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!  Buff Reaper!   Buff Reaper!

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Parpage.9867 said:

stop pretending that reaper is fine. 

No one pretended anything so your accusation here doesn't make sense. As bad the state Reaper is, the reason to fix it can't be some idea of how everyone should play the game. Let's ALSO not pretend that any change to Reaper will be based on player's ideas of how everyone should play either.  

What is ACTUALLY wrong with Reaper is several things, but not being something people 'should play' is definitely isn't one of them. The fact is that even though the rhetoric is that there is 'no reason' for people to play it, that's obviously nonsense considering it actually ignores the reason some people do play it. 

How about this ... instead of pretending there is 'no reason' for people to play it, how about we ask WHY the people that play it still do so and where it's played? That's a MUCH more sensible approach to understanding the state of the spec to see what people DO like about it. Let's not pretend Reaper needs a fix at the expense of those people that DO enjoy it.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Parpage.9867]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No one pretended anything so your accusation here doesn't make sense. As bad the state Reaper is, the reason to fix it can't be some idea of how everyone should play the game. Let's ALSO not pretend that any change to Reaper will be based on player's ideas of how everyone should play either.  

What is ACTUALLY wrong with Reaper is several things, but not being something people 'should play' is definitely isn't one of them. The fact is that even though the rhetoric is that there is 'no reason' for people to play it, that's obviously nonsense considering it actually ignores the reason some people do play it. 

How about this ... instead of pretending there is 'no reason' for people to play it, how about we ask WHY the people that play it still do so and where it's played? That's a MUCH more sensible approach to understanding the state of the spec to see what people DO like about it. Let's not pretend Reaper needs a fix at the expense of those people that DO enjoy it.  

Where i said that there is no reason at all to play it? You're the one who's not making sense. I literally stated that you have several arsenals at your disposal (and guess what, almost all of them are the core necro skills and not the shouts themselves), but compared to what others classes can do it's in a sad state. You're either just a troll or blind, people can play whatever they want i really couldn't care any less but when an afk spec does more dps and has a better QoL than reaper by just existing then you know that is an actual problem. And let me rephrase it again so that your attitude "omg dps elitist stop imposing on others" shows again, it's not just a matter of dps it's also the fact that necro has little to no choice of power weapons and shouts are bad. Period. If you're fine with how reaper it is that's cool, but objectively speaking reaper is *again* not fine

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Parpage.9867 said:

... when an afk spec does more dps and has a better QoL than reaper by just existing then you know that is an actual problem. 

Right ... except that problem has nothing to do with Reaper. I mean, let's put this to rest right now. What OP'ed specs are capable of should NOT be a balancing target of specs that aren't capable. 

Quote

... but objectively speaking reaper is *again* not fine

That's true and no one said it was. I'm just realistic in understanding that the best way to fix what is wrong with Reaper is not to pretend there is 'literally no point' in using it because it's severely downgraded by OP'ed specs. I think most people can agree that in the current game state, there are some obviously overtuned specs that need to be dealt FIRST to sensibly address specs 'that don't have a point to play'.

Here are some facts:

1. Reaper doesn't benefit that much offensively from getting a team because of how much it can self buff.

2. It's unlikely it will be buffed an amount of DPS (30-40%?) where it appeals to teams looking for good DPS performance

3. Competing for a team spot as a pure DPS class is already far too competitive as it is and far too sensitive to class changes. 

None of these can be addressed without either reconsidering the role Reaper has in a team or significantly downgrading the currently meta specs. 

Here is the REAL hot take though: I think Anet doesn't consider it a problem if some specs are regarded as 'OW" specific at the expense of their team capabilities.

Again, ask yourselves who is playing Reaper, where it's played and why they play it. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Parpage.9867]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... except that problem has nothing to do with Reaper. I mean, let's put this to rest right now. What OP'ed specs are capable of should NOT be a balancing target of specs that aren't capable. 

I was comparing reaper with mech because it's the easiest offender to prove the simple fact that his dps is under performing. It's a fact, where you want to recognize it or not it doesn't matter. Also yes, balancing should also consider "why a melee dps should do way less than a ranged afk". 

 

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm just realistic in understanding that the best way to fix what is wrong with Reaper is not to pretend there is 'literally no point' in using it because it's severely downgraded by OP'ed specs. I think most people can agree that in the current game state, there are some obviously overtuned specs that need to be dealt FIRST to sensibly address specs 'that don't have a point to play'.

The only thing i can agree on with is that there some broken specs that needed to be tuned down. Everyone is talking about pMech, but let's not forget about specter and virtuoso and other specs but i digress. The point is, OP may be exaggerating when stating that there is 0 point at all to play reaper (because you can still play it for ow, simple fractals, strikes and literally whatever you want) but can you really blame this tought? As a necro main i sympathize and i understand. In PvE outside of open world try to use reaper for end game purposes and you will understand how under performing it is, you may not care about it but i assure you that many people do. Just have a look at wingman, data shows that overall reaper has 1,56% of play (and that's being generous with overall). I don't think that asking for a buff and a QoL update to your favorite spec is a bad thing since it will benefit everyone who plays it. 

 

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Competing for a team spot as a pure DPS class is already far too competitive as it is and far too sensitive to class changes. 

It is you're right, because almost of every other spec can do what reaper does but way better. 

 

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

None of these can be addressed without either reconsidering the role Reaper has in a team or significantly downgrading the currently meta specs. 

Yes you can address these issues that you listed, also it's not only those issues but *again* we lack power weapon variety and other stuff that i have already said it, if you choose to ignore what i say it's your problem honestly. 

[Bakeneko.5826]

Returning necro to be AoE monster it was pre epi nerf would be nice

[Nabbut.7480]

18 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

And specter, with 28k hp, second healthbar, alac, not to mention 50% heal by just leaving the aforementioned second healthbar.

Oh, don't forget staff mirage with its 25 might / alac, and 3 clones to tank away its aggro.

Specter gets his second bar as barrier while core Necros gets his health, shroud (which depletes considerably slower than a barrier) 'and' barrier from overhealing which amounts to more ehp.

Plus Necros is oneshot proof due to Unholy Sanctuary, does Specter have the same mechanic?

And staff mirage is vulnerable to heavy DoT AoE while Necros in shroud can stand in the fire fields and the like with no problem due to Shrouded Removal.

But yes, I take back my silly saying. There are other tanky PvE builds, I am just arguing that Core Necro is the tankiest.

[Parpage.9867]

2 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Returning necro to be AoE monster it was pre epi nerf would be nice

We're fine in the condi department (although imo they should give at least 10 stacks instead of 5), sadly we can't say the same about power 😞

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... except that problem has nothing to do with Reaper. I mean, let's put this to rest right now. What OP'ed specs are capable of should NOT be a balancing target of specs that aren't capable. 

That's true and no one said it was. I'm just realistic in understanding that the best way to fix what is wrong with Reaper is not to pretend there is 'literally no point' in using it because it's severely downgraded by OP'ed specs. I think most people can agree that in the current game state, there are some obviously overtuned specs that need to be dealt FIRST to sensibly address specs 'that don't have a point to play'.

Here are some facts:

1. Reaper doesn't benefit that much offensively from getting a team because of how much it can self buff.

2. It's unlikely it will be buffed an amount of DPS (30-40%?) where it appeals to teams looking for good DPS performance

3. Competing for a team spot as a pure DPS class is already far too competitive as it is and far too sensitive to class changes. 

None of these can be addressed without either reconsidering the role Reaper has in a team or significantly downgrading the currently meta specs. 

Here is the REAL hot take though: I think Anet doesn't consider it a problem if some specs are regarded as 'OW" specific at the expense of their team capabilities.

Again, ask yourselves who is playing Reaper, where it's played and why they play it. 

 

I don't think people are screaming to be top dog and a have to be  meta just fixed the damned class and give it respectable damage, it is in terrible shape. A 15 to 20% increase would just begin to bring it in line with other dps class and by no way make it meta. It's about being fair to every class regardless of how they want to see the meta look like. It just isn't right to let several classes flounder without even attempting to bring them along with the rest of the pack.

That's what most Reaper players are screaming about, just do what's bloody right simple as that! Buff the bloody Reaper and take it out of the bottom for a bloody change!!!

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

That's what most Reaper players are screaming about, just do what's bloody right simple as that! Buff the bloody Reaper and take it out of the bottom for a bloody change!!!

Unfortunately that's not as simple as you make it out.

Initialy the reaper's role was to be a "tank" and players push to have it become a "strike damage dps" because, not having block, good amount of stability and decent support made the reaper an unattractive "tank". Yet, while the damages managed to reach an acceptable height, this never made reaper especially attractive for a group. I'm sure the devs can increase the coefficient value on a few reaper specific skills and bring him back to 35k dps, but that's not something that will give it some "group value". All in all, playing the "increase damage" card just lead to a dead end for reaper.

As far as I know, the devs current goal is to create a meta game revolving around 4 roles: Healer, Quickness, Alacrity and dps.

- Reaper will never be accepted as a dps simply because if it got high enough dps to be competitive a part of the playerbase will just complain that it got to much survivability and "it's unfair".

- I doubt we will ever see a reaper healer, not because it's an impossible feat but because it's to far apart from the picture of the reaper in the playerbase imagination.

- Which leave us with the roles of providing either Alacrity or Quickness. Unforunately reaper's thematic don't match alacrity while providing quickness have been given as a role to harbinger.

 

As such, we can say that reaper is and have been in a dead end since it's very release in 2015. In the current game, for group content it doesn't have any appeal as it both lack the tool and thematic necessary while the spot it could have filled with it's thematic have already be snatched by the harbinger. For solo content, it's performances, while not stellar, are already more than satisfactory due to it's inate survivability and it's ability to self buff.

 

If one want reaper to "have a point" in the game, you need to do either of these things:

- Have reaper lose it's ability to protect it's health bar via LF and then bring it's dps to the top. (if they can do it for harbinger, one have reasons to think they can also do it for reaper. It might lead people to complain that "reaper have no survivability" but harbinger already prove that such concerns are overdramatic)

- Promote reaper as a quickness provider and demote harbinger from it's statut of a quickness provider in favor of either alacrity provider or dps that can only provide non essential boons but can top the chart.

[Pooh.6897]

The point of necro is to make Rangers jealous that you can have more than 1 pet out at the same time, and have a whole basket full of them as well. Just look at those cute little deformed faces, what's not to love?

[Artificer.3468]

Where are you getting that it was made for the tank role at first?

 

They could make the Soul Eater trait turn reaper shroud like harb  since its lifesteal doesnt work when you're in shroud normally anyways.

 

And from what I've seen so far selfish dps is the most flexible spots in a squad As long as your spec does high damage you qualify for it lmao

 

Even in 5 man content theres an alac, quickness, one of which is healer and one which is offensive support, then you can pick  dps for the other slots.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Artificer.3468 said:

Where are you getting that it was made for the tank role at first?

Original dps: below 25k

Reaper specific tanking asset:

- "Rise!": -33% incoming damage

- Shroud#3: -20% incoming damage

- Shroud#2: short CD, aoe blind and projectile hate

- Receive 10% less damage from chilled foe

- A 3 traits focused on sustain on major adept, major master and major grand master slot.

- AoE blind on GS

- AoE weakness on shout

- Crowd control through chill and freeze/stun

- Access to frozen aura

Along with core necromancer's own assets:

- A lot of weakness output

- Receive 10% less damage from poisoned foe. (death magic)

- Blood magic sustain

- Access to protection (close to perma uptime without boon duration)

- ... etc.

As damage reduction mods was additional at that time, it was relatively easy to get 80% damage reduction out of shroud and peaking at 100% when necessary. Unfortunately the inability to block made it a crappy choice as a tank and even if it had had those things, people were turning themselve toward support archetype to tank (Chronomancer).

 

[Artificer.3468]

Couldn't you just as easily use the reasoning that you could pick all damage traits and it was meant to be an aoe damage dealer? 

[Dadnir.5038]

11 minutes ago, Artificer.3468 said:

Couldn't you just as easily use the reasoning that you could pick all damage traits and it was meant to be an aoe damage dealer? 

I said that the peak damage you could do with the spec was below 25k dps (I can even tell you that apart from mesmer all other professions reached the 30k. When you've got minimum 20% less dps than the "dps" then you're not considered a "dps".). That's literally the first thing that I stated. So no, you're not a damage dealer when you have this amount of dps in full glass gear. While on another hand, you're teeming with way to reduce incoming damage, which make you a natural "tank".

Edited August 11, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Obtena.7952]

Dadnir is correct ... it's a LONG time ago but at the beginning, Reaper had some really specific tank features. That transition away from that probably got alot to do with why it's currently so far behind. No one can reasonably think Anet can just flip a switch, give it a new purpose that isn't aligned to the original concept and believe there won't be long lasting problems. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Unfortunately that's not as simple as you make it out.

Initialy the reaper's role was to be a "tank" and players push to have it become a "strike damage dps" because, not having block, good amount of stability and decent support made the reaper an unattractive "tank". Yet, while the damages managed to reach an acceptable height, this never made reaper especially attractive for a group. I'm sure the devs can increase the coefficient value on a few reaper specific skills and bring him back to 35k dps, but that's not something that will give it some "group value". All in all, playing the "increase damage" card just lead to a dead end for reaper.

As far as I know, the devs current goal is to create a meta game revolving around 4 roles: Healer, Quickness, Alacrity and dps.

- Reaper will never be accepted as a dps simply because if it got high enough dps to be competitive a part of the playerbase will just complain that it got to much survivability and "it's unfair".

- I doubt we will ever see a reaper healer, not because it's an impossible feat but because it's to far apart from the picture of the reaper in the playerbase imagination.

- Which leave us with the roles of providing either Alacrity or Quickness. Unforunately reaper's thematic don't match alacrity while providing quickness have been given as a role to harbinger.

 

As such, we can say that reaper is and have been in a dead end since it's very release in 2015. In the current game, for group content it doesn't have any appeal as it both lack the tool and thematic necessary while the spot it could have filled with it's thematic have already be snatched by the harbinger. For solo content, it's performances, while not stellar, are already more than satisfactory due to it's inate survivability and it's ability to self buff.

 

If one want reaper to "have a point" in the game, you need to do either of these things:

- Have reaper lose it's ability to protect it's health bar via LF and then bring it's dps to the top. (if they can do it for harbinger, one have reasons to think they can also do it for reaper. It might lead people to complain that "reaper have no survivability" but harbinger already prove that such concerns are overdramatic)

- Promote reaper as a quickness provider and demote harbinger from it's statut of a quickness provider in favor of either alacrity provider or dps that can only provide non essential boons but can top the chart.

Can't you make it that in 1 side of a trait its DPS and sacirfice more shroud and on the other sacrifice more DPS and become a tank and certain buffs change to allow you to tank? its better than the alternative which is to continue to sink to the bottom and be forgotten.

[Nimon.7840]

10 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Original dps: below 25k

Reaper specific tanking asset:

- "Rise!": -33% incoming damage

- Shroud#3: -20% incoming damage

- Shroud#2: short CD, aoe blind and projectile hate

- Receive 10% less damage from chilled foe

- A 3 traits focused on sustain on major adept, major master and major grand master slot.

- AoE blind on GS

- AoE weakness on shout

- Crowd control through chill and freeze/stun

- Access to frozen aura

Along with core necromancer's own assets:

- A lot of weakness output

- Receive 10% less damage from poisoned foe. (death magic)

- Blood magic sustain

- Access to protection (close to perma uptime without boon duration)

- ... etc.

As damage reduction mods was additional at that time, it was relatively easy to get 80% damage reduction out of shroud and peaking at 100% when necessary. Unfortunately the inability to block made it a crappy choice as a tank and even if it had had those things, people were turning themselve toward support archetype to tank (Chronomancer).

 

 

All good, but as a tank it still lacks one crucial thing:

At least one short cooldown block or evade skill. 

There are mechanics that one shot you, no matter the damage reduction.

All those soft cc skills are great in pvp, but useless in PvE endgame against bosses, because they normally are soft cc "immune" due to the defiance bar. 

Also if you have to take all the sustain traits, your dmg will drop, which then lowers your sustain from soul eater trait. And a pure tank doesn't fit in the game. 

Currently you are not just tanking. You always want to compress as many roles into one person as possible, to get more dps players in your group, with the result of not having to do as many mechanics = less chances to fail mechanics.

Most common are tank+ quickness + heal or tank + alacrity + heal. That way you only have to put one other person in your group, that does less dps because that person has to provide the other crucial boon(s) alacrity/quickness.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Nimon.7840

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Nimon.7840 said:

 

All good, but as a tank it still lacks one crucial thing:

At least one short cooldown block or evade skill. 

There are mechanics that one shot you, no matter the damage reduction.

All those soft cc skills are great in pvp, but useless in PvE endgame against bosses, because they normally are soft cc "immune" due to the defiance bar. 

Also if you have to take all the sustain traits, your dmg will drop, which then lowers your sustain from soul eater trait. And a pure tank doesn't fit in the game. 

Currently you are not just tanking. You always want to compress as many roles into one person as possible, to get more dps players in your group, with the result of not having to do as many mechanics = less chances to fail mechanics.

Most common are tank+ quickness + heal or tank + alacrity + heal. That way you only have to put one other person in your group, that does less dps because that person has to provide the other crucial boon(s) alacrity/quickness.

Look, I don't know if you are trolling me on purpose or you simply lack reading comprehension but I'll give you a tiny bit of context here.

Previously I said that reaper was originaly designed as a "tank" which the other person argued against.

You're commenting on my argumentation of what reaper was at it's release point which in essence was a low damage character with kitten ton way to take a beating and control it's foes. By common mmorpg definition, that's a "tank".

Now, if you had taken care of reading my post before the one you're commenting on you'd have seen that I point out that the reaper was a failed "tank" within GW2 context for various reasons (not having block, limited stability and no support). This is due to GW2 not being your "average MMORPG", leading people to care less about the ability of the tank to "survive" than what it does at the same time than it "tank".

And, again, if you've still not catch up yet, you're commenting on a post that describe reaper in 2015. In 7 years a part of the necromancer's community pointed out that it was a failed tank more than enough for the devs to make many changes to the spec leading to a loss of survavibility and an increase in damage. Yet, even if they did that much, it doesn't mean that reaper didn't keep a high inate survivability that make him unsuitable for being an acceptable "dps" in the eyes of the majority of the playerbase.

Thus the solutions that I suggest are oriented toward either making him lose some of it's inate survivability along with raising it's damage output or giving it some boon support that fit it's thematic without touching it's current damage output. In order to make something balanced instead of a mess that everybody and it's grandma will cry against until it's nerfed to oblivion.

[Dadnir.5038]

7 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Can't you make it that in 1 side of a trait its DPS and sacirfice more shroud and on the other sacrifice more DPS and become a tank and certain buffs change to allow you to tank? its better than the alternative which is to continue to sink to the bottom and be forgotten.

No, the issue is that the true survivability currently is in the skills not in the traits while damage are in the traits not in the skills. There are to many skills that would need to change for what you suggest. I highly doubt that we will ever see reaper lose it's ability to shield itself in life force. Even if the devs were to reduce shroud damage reduction to 0% in exchange for competitive damages, people would still argue that reaper have to much survivability for the damage they do.

If you really want the reaper to not be "pointless", the solution is to give him an option for a support role so that it can now fit GW2 peculiar definition of a "tank". Giving him "competitive damage" would just make him a target for hate which would lead up to nerf and a return to being "pointless".

All in all, people just need to let go of this dream of being a competitive "reaper strike damage dps". Fact is that for solo content reaper have already good enough damage output and survivability. It's highly likely that the devs can't get rid of the inate survivability so logic point out toward making it bring support to it's allies in order to make it competitive for group content.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Dadnir is correct ... it's a LONG time ago but at the beginning, Reaper had some really specific tank features. That transition away from that probably got alot to do with why it's currently so far behind. No one can reasonably think Anet can just flip a switch, give it a new purpose that isn't aligned to the original concept and believe there won't be long lasting problems. 

 

Fine so they can't find a place for use, they don't know what role to give us it i still no excuse for letting us languish for years without bringing our dps along with the other classes. Dev's lost their way fine but that doesn't mean they have to keep us in such a pitiful state for damage. Maybe they will never find a role but they should still do the right thing and provide us with the damage we need to do the bloody content efficiently. Sick of all these ridiculous excuses.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Reaper does provide a lot of vulnerability generation which makes it pretty good for solo play. In solo play, where you won't see people capping vulnerability (unless they play necro), reaper can easily average 20+ stacks of vulnerability (or outright cap it) by itself meaning 20% extra damage to the enemies than otherwise. But this is a multiplayer game, so solo play shouldn't really be a balance area should it? I mean a class could be specifically be made so it is only great at solo play, but this isn't a solo game, and group play is what Anet wants to funnel people into don't they?

Anyways, vulnerability generation doesn't scale well when you add even just one other player to the equation. This is actually a long standing problem of how conditions were designed in the root of the game. This plagued condition dots before they fixed damaging condition capping, however, when they fixed capping, they only fixed half of the issue. Vulnerability is potent, so they can't uncap it, and the soft CCs, which stack by duration, easily hit caps that make applying any more meaningless. People don't care if there is a Vulnerability or soft CC skill fact in their ability, because the enemy will always have those effects maxed out when there is a modest group hitting an enemy.

Vulnerability is potent, a lot of extra damage to the enemy. But it is overlooked because maxing it out is essentially free. It always happens, there is no vulnerability role because it seems to magically max out in 10 or even 5 man content without a thought. And yet, Necro, and Reaper essentially has the role of generating vulnerability, a lot of it, a single player can cap vulnerability on the enemy... but that role has no meaning in group play.

Anet says they want to make might and fury more of an intentional choice than something that just comes along automatically. Support players bring quickness and alacrity. And DPS players bring might and fury. I think Anet should also make room for a player to choose to bring heavy amounts of vulnerability too.

Vulnerability capping should be intentional and requires work. Scale the vulnerability cap on an enemy based on the expected player count of an encounter so that vulnerability capping is no longer an afterthought. For example, trash mobs cap at 25, 5 man champ/legendary cap at 50, 10 man legendary cap at 100, open world legendary cap at 300 (subject to scaling). Apply the damage bonus of vulnerability using +%[25 * vulnerability/vulnerability_cap] and any skill facts that scale from vulnerability to [25 * vulnerability/vulnerability_cap].  Then rebalance vulnerability generation across the board, using necro and reaper as a benchmark for what a heavy vulnerability spec should look like.

Now, for the soft CCs... which also can mean a lot but are also presumed automatically capped in group play... Well that is another story I have no ideas about. Thanks for me ranting about vulnerability capping. Make vulnerability great. Make reaper great!

 

On 8/10/2022 at 3:58 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

That's a MUCH more sensible approach to understanding the state of the spec to see what people DO like about it. Let's not pretend Reaper needs a fix at the expense of those people that DO enjoy it.  

I play reaper because I enjoy my character and the spec more than I care to do instanced group content. So I just avoid instanced group content for now.

Edited August 13, 2022 by PseudoNewb.5468

[Matthius.9104]

Im just glad to see necro suffer after years of its kitten in pvp. Feels great