Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[Vekks.6013]

Thanks to not having to touch jade mech buttons and the fix to rifle autoattacks, despite the nerf to aim assisted rockets, you can now afk at the boss, press zero buttons, and do 28k dps. 0 APM build that does probably more than twice the damage that your average pug does in raid spamming away at their buttons.

 

If this is intended design choices, I really want to know why.

[Kuma.1503]

They actually went and let you set every pet skill to autoattack. That's... interesting.  

I'm gonna keep that turned off because I like having control over when and where I use these skills, but that definitely drops the skill floor by a lot. 

 

Time to try Untamed now IG. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Jerus.4350]

11 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

They actually went and let you set every pet skill to autoattack. That's... interesting.  

I'm gonna keep that turned off because I like having control over when and where I use these skills, but that definitely drops the skill floor by a lot. 

 

Time to try Untamed now IG. 

No no that’s the best part, it doesn’t work on the untamed pet skills, just the pets core skills. 😅

[Obtena.7952]

42 minutes ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

Thanks to not having to touch jade mech buttons and the fix to rifle autoattacks, despite the nerf to aim assisted rockets, you can now afk at the boss, press zero buttons, and do 28k dps. 0 APM build that does probably more than twice the damage that your average pug does in raid spamming away at their buttons.

 

If this is intended design choices, I really want to know why.

Easy ... accessibility is a BIG selling point to this game . In fact, I would argue that most of Anet's decisions to make changes to the classes, their especs and recently, the game itself, are mostly or even completely based on making it more accessible to people. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[ThunderX.6591]

The real damage of the Rifle mecha 1111111 is now 2k less then before the patch, i got from 23k to less than 21k, all the same as before (i don't use autopet attack, cause i didn't used them before....... same basic, or results come out wrong).

So, with the nerf to AARocket for the robot (6 secs) and for the player (only missile hit), even with extra juice to the rifle, Mecha lost around 2k dps.

We need to wait Snowcrow new test to see where Mecha rank now.......  but is low, really low; Vindicator 11111 greatsword with impossible odd active do more damage now.

Edited August 2, 2022 by ThunderX.6591

[Vekks.6013]

38 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Easy ... accessibility is a BIG selling point to this game . In fact, I would argue that most of Anet's decisions to make changes to the classes, their especs and recently, the game itself, are mostly or even completely based on making it more accessible to people. 

I love accessibility, low intensity, and making things easier to play for my friends with disabilities/etc. Trust me on this, I love this and want it in the games I play. But there is a difference between easier to play, and not having to do anything to play. When you take out all interaction, so you don't have to do anything, its not a game anymore. It doesn't feel rewarding, and ends up being insulting to the same people you're trying to make feel included. Next time I go hang out with a friend of mine with physical disabilities, I'll demonstrate this by recording a video of us playing a video game but instead of him playing I take his controller and do it for him and tell him he's doing a good job. That will go over really well I think.

My point, and let me be clear that's a joke on that last part, is that there is a line between being accessible and still being a game that you play and interact with in a meaningful way.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Anscenic.3268
Typos

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

I love accessibility, low intensity, and making things easier to play for my friends with disabilities/etc. Trust me on this, I love this and want it in the games I play. But there is a difference between easier to play, and not having to do anything to play. When you take out all interaction, so you don't have to do anything, its not a game anymore. It doesn't feel rewarding, and ends up being insulting to the same people you're trying to make feel included. Next time I go hang out with a friend of mine with physical disabilities, I'll demonstrate this by recording a video of us playing a video game but instead of him playing I take his controller and do it for him and tell him he's doing a good job. That will go over really well I think.

My point, and let's me be clear that's a joke on that last part, is that there is a line between being accessible and still being a game that you play and interact with in a meaningful way.

The thing here is that the reduced inteaction has nothing to do with how easy it is to get DPS on this build. The issue is how well the bot tanks for you while doing that. 

So let's be clear here. DPS was never and will never be the problem with such LI builds. In the end, whether it's HI or LI, the DPS that hits the mob looks all the same to it. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

24 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

The real damage of the Rifle mecha 1111111 is now 2k less then before the patch, i got from 23k to less than 21k, all the same as before (i don't use autopet attack, cause i didn't used them before....... same basic, or results come out wrong).

So, with the nerf to AARocket for the robot (6 secs) and for the player (only missile hit), even with extra juice to the rifle, Mecha lost around 2k dps.

We need to wait Snowcrow new test to see where Mecha rank now.......  but is low, really low; Vindicator 11111 greatsword with impossible odd active do more damage now.

You seem to be missing what OP talks about and it's about "0 input" dps.

Pre-patch if you wanted to "afk dps", you could just 1111111, since mech skills required additional keystrokes, currently if you want to "afk dps", you 1111111 and mech uses the skills for you, so the overal "afk dps" increased with the same 0 button presses.

[Vekks.6013]

13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The thing here is that the reduced inteaction has nothing to do with how easy it is to get DPS on this build. The issue is how well the bot tanks for you while doing that. 

So let's be clear here. DPS was never and will never be the problem with such LI builds. It's actually the DPS these builds have that ENABLES players to successfully interact with the game/encounter mechanics.  

This would be a perfect counter argument for a game that had challenging or punishing game mechanics with hard failure states. The amount of encounters designed like this in our game is minimal to non-existent. You can do 95% of this games content by ignoring all mechanics and dpsing harder. 

[ASP.8093]

35 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Easy ... accessibility is a BIG selling point to this game . In fact, I would argue that most of Anet's decisions to make changes to the classes, their especs and recently, the game itself, are mostly or even completely based on making it more accessible to people. 

Accessibility is good. And I don't mind "low-effort" builds being straight-up top-tier DPS, either. But it's frustrating how entire classes just don't *work* without you watching 3-4 different resources like a hawk, and often if you change a single trait away from "max DPS, no survival, no utility," they have measurably worse performance than easy-mode Mechanist or here's-15-utility-skills-for-free Firebrand.

[ThunderX.6591]

The part about autopet skill is based for Ranger........... BUT i find the autoattack more of a problem instead of a bonus, cause a lot of the skills are CC or "boons" that need to be used "smart" for maximaze the use.

Autouse for many of those skills is more of a problem instead of an help.

And AFK will be the same, i see literally no change there. (afk is always AFK)

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Jerus.4350 said:

No no that’s the best part, it doesn’t work on the untamed pet skills, just the pets core skills. 😅

Ooookay, that seems... arbitrary. Maybe Anet had a hard time coding it?

If it works on the core skills, at least you can make the pet act like it does for other elite specs. Minus the keybinds that completely mess up your muscle memory. 

[Artificer.3468]

If you're referencing the reddit post I think you are, not only does it have unrealistic perma conditions which affect damage because of Modified Ammunition trait but it might have been against  a 1M Hp which makes the number look better than it would be under the usual testing standards

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

The part about autopet skill is based for Ranger........... BUT i find the autoattack more of a problem instead of a bonus, cause a lot of the skills are CC or "boons" that need to be used "smart" for maximaze the use.

Autouse for many of those skills is more of a problem instead of an help.

And AFK will be the same, i see literally no change there. (afk is always AFK)

That's just saying that in most circumstances it's better to leave some skills on manual. Which is to be expected. This is mostly an Untamed change, since many pets are expected to use most of their skills on cooldown but this added extra busywork to Untamed. Now, Untamed can get the best of both worlds.

[Jerus.4350]

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Ooookay, that seems... arbitrary. Maybe Anet had a hard time coding it?

If it works on the core skills, at least you can make the pet act like it does for other elite specs. Minus the keybinds that completely mess up your muscle memory. 

Yeah I have to think they want to address that but ran into issues.  It’s just too funny given everything going on.

[Obtena.7952]

13 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Accessibility is good. And I don't mind "low-effort" builds being straight-up top-tier DPS, either. But it's frustrating how entire classes just don't *work* without you watching 3-4 different resources like a hawk, and often if you change a single trait away from "max DPS, no survival, no utility," they have measurably worse performance than easy-mode Mechanist or here's-15-utility-skills-for-free Firebrand.

I don't get why that would be frustrating to you if you believe accessibility is good. Accessibility means there is a wide range of difficulty to choose from and it's reasonable to expect that if being accessible is a pillar of balancing classes, then the difficulty doesn't strongly correlate to the performance.

It's also weird considering you have choice of whatever class you want to play and classes/specs cover a wide range of any parameter you can think of to make that choice. You want hard? You can have it. You want high DPS. You can have that too. You want lots of utility? That's also a choice. 

What you DON'T get is to "order up" you parameters in whatever spec/class you prefer to play. But then again, find me an MMO that DOES do that ... 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

16 hours ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

Thanks to not having to touch jade mech buttons and the fix to rifle autoattacks, despite the nerf to aim assisted rockets, you can now afk at the boss, press zero buttons, and do 28k dps.

You do realise that you're talking about a 4-7% damage increase on a build with no utility?

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Wolfb.7025]

Accesibility?

 

 

*The community comes together to create several viable low intensity builds for everyone to pick up*

*Anet, on Jun 28 patch day with several buffs to power mechanist and Rifle1*: Hold my Firebrand.

[zeyeti.8347]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Easy ... accessibility is a BIG selling point to this game . In fact, I would argue that most of Anet's decisions to make changes to the classes, their especs and recently, the game itself, are mostly or even completely based on making it more accessible to people. 

Wait , ... more accessible , you mean for blind people ? Or people with physical disabilities (like no arms ?) , then quickly , we must say to anet to completely delete ele from the game !!! If one of those people try ele they could sue anet for false advertising !! Ele being not accessible at all (4 attunements , what the heck ! i have to hover to 4 attunements !!! ouinnnn ... they said the game was easy an accessible...)

Leveling down , till we reach the bottom ---> mobile games ! 👌

I didnt mean to be offensive to you Obtena.7952 , you just state what anet said , but when you have an afk build performing as well as a crazybuttonmasher build , everyone is gonna take his wheelchair and fake the disability, if you get my point.

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

58 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

You do realise that you're talking about a 4-7% damage increase on a build with no utility?

So just tell which dps only spec got a free utility , and dont loose any dps changing something , oh yes you have virtuoso , you could change one of his skill , same for mech you can get rid off one of his sigil.

As for power mech rifle you have actually a free slot , grenade kit ! can take a turret if you are lazy , or the barrier sigil ...

And 4-7% damage increase is something i crave to have on my ele ...

[Tails.9372]

10 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

So just tell which dps only spec got a free utility , and dont loose any dps changing something , oh yes you have virtuoso , you could change one of his skill , same for mech you can get rid off one of his sigil.

As for power mech rifle you have actually a free slot , grenade kit ! can take a turret if you are lazy , or the barrier sigil

Irrelevant, the build in question was the pure DPS AFK spam one. Ofc. you could change things up to add more utility and group support but that's not the topic of this thread.

 

11 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

And 4-7% damage increase is something i crave to have on my ele ...

Sure, if we nerf the selfish pure DPS ele builds down to 26k first then they too can get another 7% boost to bring them in like with this underperforming gimmick build.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yo, Anet can you share that 28k 0 APM benchmark love to some other classes? That would be dope.

[zeyeti.8347]

5 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Irrelevant, the build in question was the pure DPS AFK spam one. Ofc. you could change things up to add more utility and group support but that's not the topic of this thread.

 

Sure, if we nerf the selfish pure DPS ele builds down to 26k first then they too can get another 7% boost to bring them in like with this underperforming gimmick build.

You know the difference between ele dps being 39 k , and engi 31-33k , well yes the numbers and , ... freaking 300 action per minutes

Obviously , you never played ele on endgame content , what you have to do to get to your minimal dps , when u have a semi afk/sleeping mech near you at the benchmark , it's frustrating as hell ... Just think about it , you do the same work in the same office in the same department as a random guy and he get payed twice your money , just because he has blue eyes and the boss like blue eyes , does that sound  fair ? well no , and thats the feeling i have playing my ele atm (me luv mechs , duuuuhhh).

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Tails.9372]

21 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You know the difference between ele dps being 39 k , and engi 31-33k , well yes the numbers and , ... freaking 300 action per minutes

Again irrelevant, the build you're talking about here is not the one the OP is talking about.

21 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Obviously , you never played ele on endgame content , what you have to do to get to your minimal dps , when u have a semi afk/sleeping mech near you at the benchmark , it's frustrating as hell ...

Sounds like your actual issue here is more that ele doesn't have an LI build that is to your liking rather than the engi rifle build in question. If you "actually played endgame content" then other LI builds which actually are able to pull similar numbers to ele would make a lot more sense to complain about as opposed to a build that does DPS which is routhly on par with P/P DE.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tails.9372

[zeyeti.8347]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

Sounds like your actual issue here is more that ele doesn't have an LI build that is to your liking rather than the engi rifle build in question. If you "actually played endgame content" then other LI builds which actually are able to pull similar numbers to ele would make a lot more sense to complain about as opposed to a build that does DPS which is routhly on par with P/P DE.

yep , agreed , but as i always say , you should do damage proportionnaly of the effort you put in , having an afk build hiting 28k is not right .

Edited August 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347