Thief Nerf thread

[Sinister.5792]

Hi, I just came back after awhile.... been a player since day 1 of GW2... i've not played for awhile but after returning, I am not happy.

 

First of all, I would like to express my disappointment and disgust towards the balance team who just decides to ridiculously create these supposely "BALANCE" patches.

 

((OPENING THIS FORUM)) I see this in title " Thief - Deadly acrobatic masters of shadow and stealth." this is an absolute LIE.

 

Even last patch, thief wasnt even in great shape, yet class is only carriable by actual good players. 

I kid you not in this, thief is suppose to be +1 / Mobile / High Damage 

With high damage, I dont have mobility at all, the backstab damage maximum was about 5, and often Blocked, Blind, Dodge.. 

Today, I'm trying to chase an engi, guess what? Engi has an incredible amount of heals, sustain, and oh? UNLIMITED SUPER SPEED. 

Now, trying to chase the elemtalist, I get 99 evasion and unlimited burns applied on me, and I have no zero cleanse. 

I'm going for a guard, Too many blocks, damage dealt is like very little... 

You get one burst from a Soulbeast... 

rest is basically weak against condi... 

It is absolutely ridiculous... 

we all know what thieves like vs other classes... we could talk about it all day.. 

 

If ANET doesn't like this thief mechanic, why call it thief, why not remove thief in the game completely or revamp it, because this is just absolutely stupid. 

If other classes can do what thief should be able to, why have thief in the game... 

 

I propose to return TANK / DAMAGE / HEAL aspect and get rid of these absolute BS that is all in one... 

how can a class do ALL things??? 

 

I don't get the Devs at all...

 

I invoke free speech and I should be able to express what I feel towards this game in this forum  without receiving infraction because of simply trying to express myself. 

If this post gets infracted and Devs just want to silence people expressing negativity, you're no better than the government. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Sinister.5792

[Valisha.8650]

Just play condi specter. So easy to play, so much fun. True, there are better options both for dps and alac, but hey, at least thief is finally viable.

[Sinister.5792]

this isn't even about playing other viable specs, its simply a "class" issue... its literally making thief not a thief at all... this isnt the purpose of it... this class is suppose to have the mobility, stealth, damage and attack in compensation of low defense.. but look at other classes... before warrior was the laughing stock, great, now warrior is great and "IS" very warrior... thief is not even considered a thief anymore, its a joke of a class and needs to be shelved or revamp if the devs hate the stealth mechanic at all.... its called thief for a reason, MASTER OF STEALTH... you cant even stealth with daggers without wasting your time on it and too much initiative and you got nothing else.... unless you play deadeye...  its just really stupid now.

[ASP.8093]

9 hours ago, Sinister.5792 said:

Now, trying to chase the elemtalist, I get 99 evasion and unlimited burns applied on me, and I have no zero cleanse. 

Let's just start with this example.

Why, why, why do you have zero cleanse? Why aren't you running Shadow's Embrace? Cleansing sigil? Hide in Shadows? Signet of Agility? (Heck, even some of your weapon skills are condition cleanses.)

Why are you just attacking over and over into evades?

You don't really seem to be playing to the class' strengths very much, from your description. Just kinda repeatedly trying to burst someone and floundering in frustration if that doesn't do the trick.

[Sinister.5792]

8 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Let's just start with this example.

Why, why, why do you have zero cleanse? Why aren't you running Shadow's Embrace? Cleansing sigil? Hide in Shadows? Signet of Agility? (Heck, even some of your weapon skills are condition cleanses.)

Why are you just attacking over and over into evades?

You don't really seem to be playing to the class' strengths very much, from your description. Just kinda repeatedly trying to burst someone and floundering in frustration if that doesn't do the trick.

 

i play thief at high level so I know what I am doing, I am running CS, (I wont disclose my build because people like copying kitten) but what I am really stressing here is about the class itself and its functionality exactly... what makes thief a THIEF... the class is not even functional because you have to follow viable builds, but the builds itself is already a problem... 

if I added condi cleanse, I lose like about 50% dps, I am literally putting everything in high damage and +1 as that's what Im best at.. this is evident in pvp having 19kills and above per match with minium 1-3 deaths.. but now, you cant play it without having to bring condi cleanse after 1 attack from mesmer, ele or any condi dealer, and you cant do anything to them either, and all you can ever do is leave the game... there's really no point. you get one shotted in teamfight, so you play in side, your teammate has to deal 4v5... then you lose the rotation either because simply, you cant carry from other classes just being better... so why have thief exactly. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You played something that worked prior to Feb2020. Turns out it no longer works. There are a lot of builds like that for several professions. There is lots of condi vomit everywhere now. You have to take cleanses now. So what if you lose DPS, it doesn't matter if the condi kills you.

The meta shifted, and shifted in such a way that your old build, that was good for what it did and your playstyle, is no longer a good build. Shift with the meta or get left behind.

[Infinity.2876]

One of the things I've been frustrated about thief is no straight up condi cleanse

 

You have 2 skills (one healing and one utility) 

Assassins signet(3 conditions wow) and hide in the shadows (only certain ones)

 

that's it.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Lighter.5631]

except the fact that thief has very good defense.

daredevil has been the hardest to kill burst class in pvp forever.

and now deadeye is also basically unkillable.

not even going to mention how hard it is to kill spector.

 

no other class can be as hard to kill while running roaming burst build.

which is why thief basically dominated roam gank in pvp since forever and forever meta.

 

you could always sacrifice more defense for more damage, but of course you wouldn't want that, you talk like you want more damage in compensate of low defense, but of course, all you want is more damage, without any sacrifice.

mobility and stealth are essentially part of defense.

the moment you want more mobility and stealth on top of more damage in compensation of low defense, you already lost your kitten.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

14 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

One of the things I've been frustrated about thief is no straight up condi cleanse

 

You have 2 skills (one healing and one utility) 

Assassins signet(3 conditions wow) and hide in the shadows (only certain ones)

 

that's it.

And if you take Anti-toxin runes in WvW you double up on all if that.

[Graeaw.6329]

1 hour ago, Sinister.5792 said:

 

i play thief at high level so I know what I am doing, I am running CS, (I wont disclose my build because people like copying kitten) but what I am really stressing here is about the class itself and its functionality exactly... what makes thief a THIEF... the class is not even functional because you have to follow viable builds, but the builds itself is already a problem... 

if I added condi cleanse, I lose like about 50% dps, I am literally putting everything in high damage and +1 as that's what Im best at.. this is evident in pvp having 19kills and above per match with minium 1-3 deaths.. but now, you cant play it without having to bring condi cleanse after 1 attack from mesmer, ele or any condi dealer, and you cant do anything to them either, and all you can ever do is leave the game... there's really no point. you get one shotted in teamfight, so you play in side, your teammate has to deal 4v5... then you lose the rotation either because simply, you cant carry from other classes just being better... so why have thief exactly. 

Ok so basically you have this headcanon where you should oneshot everything with backstab before they have the chance to put up a fight, and since it doesn't work anymore thief is dead?

also lol @ "i play thief at a high level" but having to bring condi cleanse apparently ruins my game 🤡

[Valisha.8650]

15 hours ago, Sinister.5792 said:

this isn't even about playing other viable specs, its simply a "class" issue... its literally making thief not a thief at all... this isnt the purpose of it... this class is suppose to have the mobility, stealth, damage and attack in compensation of low defense.. but look at other classes... before warrior was the laughing stock, great, now warrior is great and "IS" very warrior... thief is not even considered a thief anymore, its a joke of a class and needs to be shelved or revamp if the devs hate the stealth mechanic at all.... its called thief for a reason, MASTER OF STEALTH... you cant even stealth with daggers without wasting your time on it and too much initiative and you got nothing else.... unless you play deadeye...  its just really stupid now.

I guess just rename "thief" to "assassin", such a name is very universal and can mean a lot of different things. Problem solved.

[nikelaus.9745]

4 hours ago, Sinister.5792 said:

 

i play thief at high level so I know what I am doing, I am running CS, (I wont disclose my build because people like copying kitten) but what I am really stressing here is about the class itself and its functionality exactly... what makes thief a THIEF... the class is not even functional because you have to follow viable builds, but the builds itself is already a problem... 

if I added condi cleanse, I lose like about 50% dps, I am literally putting everything in high damage and +1 as that's what Im best at.. this is evident in pvp having 19kills and above per match with minium 1-3 deaths.. but now, you cant play it without having to bring condi cleanse after 1 attack from mesmer, ele or any condi dealer, and you cant do anything to them either, and all you can ever do is leave the game... there's really no point. you get one shotted in teamfight, so you play in side, your teammate has to deal 4v5... then you lose the rotation either because simply, you cant carry from other classes just being better... so why have thief exactly. 

 

You play thief at high level but you still try to hit through evasions, attempt to one shot guards without stripping their aegis first, and chase rocket boot engineers? 🙄

[Rogue.8235]

5 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

One of the things I've been frustrated about thief is no straight up condi cleanse

 

You have 2 skills (one healing and one utility) 

Assassins signet(3 conditions wow) and hide in the shadows (only certain ones)

 

that's it.

 

and a weapon skill

and another healing skill that removes movement-impairing conditions

and another utility skill that cleanses 3 conditions and provides mobility + stun break

and a trait that converts every stealth skill into a condition cleanse

and a trait that converts every trickery skill into a condition cleanse

and stealing from Rangers gives a skill to remove conditions

and a trait that converts evades into condition cleanse (daredevil)

and a heal skill that transfers 3 conditions (deadeye)

and a profession skill that cleanses a condition (specter)

and a trait that converts profession mechanic into condition cleanse (specter)

 

And there's two traits in acrobatics that have condition removal.  But we don't talk about acrobatics.

 

[Mincsk.6028]

12 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

except the fact that thief has very good defense.

daredevil has been the hardest to kill burst class in pvp forever.

and now deadeye is also basically unkillable.

not even going to mention how hard it is to kill spector.

 

no other class can be as hard to kill while running roaming burst build.

which is why thief basically dominated roam gank in pvp since forever and forever meta.

 

you could always sacrifice more defense for more damage, but of course you wouldn't want that, you talk like you want more damage in compensate of low defense, but of course, all you want is more damage, without any sacrifice.

mobility and stealth are essentially part of defense.

the moment you want more mobility and stealth on top of more damage in compensation of low defense, you already lost your kitten.

 B.S, don't ever start with the "ur unkillable" you need to compensate. Go over to necro forum and tell cele harb to compensate. Or maybe you mean the perma super speed engis that are unkillable but still throw big dps. Even benders and rangers can run away and survive and seem "unkillable" but compensate nothing. You seem biased tbh. Also if thief is so OPed like you are saying, you would see the fotm rerolls and thieves would be everywhere like mech, harb, ect. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mincsk.6028

[Sahne.6950]

21 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

One of the things I've been frustrated about thief is no straight up condi cleanse

 

You have 2 skills (one healing and one utility) 

Assassins signet(3 conditions wow) and hide in the shadows (only certain ones)

 

that's it.

shadows embrace.... escapist fortitude.... shadowstep... signet of agility.... 

[Sahne.6950]

On 8/7/2022 at 9:21 PM, Sinister.5792 said:

Hi, I just came back after awhile.... been a player since day 1 of GW2... i've not played for awhile but after returning, I am not happy.

 

First of all, I would like to express my disappointment and disgust towards the balance team who just decides to ridiculously create these supposely "BALANCE" patches.

 

((OPENING THIS FORUM)) I see this in title " Thief - Deadly acrobatic masters of shadow and stealth." this is an absolute LIE.

 

Even last patch, thief wasnt even in great shape, yet class is only carriable by actual good players. 

I kid you not in this, thief is suppose to be +1 / Mobile / High Damage 

With high damage, I dont have mobility at all, the backstab damage maximum was about 5, and often Blocked, Blind, Dodge.. 

Today, I'm trying to chase an engi, guess what? Engi has an incredible amount of heals, sustain, and oh? UNLIMITED SUPER SPEED. 

Now, trying to chase the elemtalist, I get 99 evasion and unlimited burns applied on me, and I have no zero cleanse. 

I'm going for a guard, Too many blocks, damage dealt is like very little... 

You get one burst from a Soulbeast... 

rest is basically weak against condi... 

It is absolutely ridiculous... 

we all know what thieves like vs other classes... we could talk about it all day.. 

 

If ANET doesn't like this thief mechanic, why call it thief, why not remove thief in the game completely or revamp it, because this is just absolutely stupid. 

If other classes can do what thief should be able to, why have thief in the game... 

 

I propose to return TANK / DAMAGE / HEAL aspect and get rid of these absolute BS that is all in one... 

how can a class do ALL things??? 

 

I don't get the Devs at all...

 

I invoke free speech and I should be able to express what I feel towards this game in this forum  without receiving infraction because of simply trying to express myself. 

If this post gets infracted and Devs just want to silence people expressing negativity, you're no better than the government. 

maybe i can help you with your builds.

the Thiefprofession as a whole has shifted quite a bit. But it actually is incredibly strong right now.

 

for PvP this are the two strongest builds currently available.

 

1) roaming Deadeye. This build is the top of the top. you will find every "pro" thief running exactly this in the tournaments. The new SA changes gave Deadeye a wagonload of initiative to work with. Great sustain, INSANE damage, borderline impossible to catch. THIS BUILD RIGHT HERE... THIS is the thief meta for PvP Tournaments currently. Simply the postiion change of Cloaked in shadows is incredible, you now have "blind on dodge" thanks to the interaction with silentscope thus making hitting this DE build incredibly hard.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAQhrlFweYSsNmJecXnvTA-z5IeK9KCCYIUxEokFgtGAA   <---- offhand is completly optional, whatever suits you best.

 

 

2)Condition sc/p specter.  This build is probably the strongest duelling spec currently. not many things can beat you in a straight 1v1. and you even have the option to support your teammates should the situationg get "sticky".

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABsqxjlhyoYpsNWLO2WnxWA-zZoOlUkA9KCiYBkxQQaDA

 

 

For WvW this is the builds that i use currently. I am having mad succes with both of these.

 

Pistol/pistol + Pistol/Pistol Daredevil.  This build is literally insane. if you die with it... you fell aslepp. Create a smokefield and use your "bounding dodger" to gain stealth. Then attack with your stealthattack and start building might thanks to Daredevil and its interaction with rune of aristocracy. During the evade you switch weapons to recharge your dodge straight away (sigil of energy) and gain 5 stacks of might for 21 seconds (sigil of battle). after 2 ambushes you will be sitting at 25 might and can shred your opponents with devastating damage. All of this while having 2 passive iincomes of cleansing (shadows embrace;Escapist fortitude) insane healing thanks to shadowarts traits(probably like 3k per stealth) and having permanent protection and 1700 Toughness as thief. This is a true Bruiser. You are hella tanky and spam alot of stealths.  i HIGHLY advise trying this build in WvW. it is borderline overpowered.

(if you place the pistols in your equipment just how i have done in gw2skills.net you can swap weapons, without actually swapping weapons, thus you can trigger the sigils without swapping away from your pistol/pistol setup. Thats how you can keep spamming evades and will gain 25 might | keep in mind that using the right buffood is 100% necessary. the +40%enduranceregeneration allow you to keep stealthing over and over without running out of resources)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAorlFwAZisNGJe0W3NdA-z1IY1okvMysAKNEcfWqSaDA-w  

 

 

Deadeye. Solid build, nothing more to add.

https://guildjen.com/rifle-deadeye-roaming-build/ 

 

 

i hope this helps you to get a foot into this game again. Personally speaking i dont agree with your description of thief... i strongly believe its because you are running suboptimal builds. Especially after the recent changes to Shadowarts, thief is as strong as it hasnt been in a long time... the Builds have changed immensly, but once you found your jam.. Thief is incredible.

 

if you play pvp i advise you play the specter build!  If you play WvW you should for sure check out my P/P+P/P Daredevil!!! Those are the builds that will probably net you the best results.

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[MATIC.9542]

 

So am i understanding correctly that you are only using 2 pistols in this build? One bar is Pistol 1-3 and the other bar is 4-5? Does the game actually let you do that?

I would have thought you'd have to use 4 pistols total to make this work. And I'm not totally sold on losing out on 5 weaponskill/utility slots by not using a different weapon set on the 2nd bar. 

 

But I do appreciate the advantage of simplicity in one's kit.  And for that reason I'm looking forward to trying your build out.

 

[Sahne.6950]

31 minutes ago, MATIC.9542 said:

 

So am i understanding correctly that you are only using 2 pistols in this build? One bar is Pistol 1-3 and the other bar is 4-5? Does the game actually let you do that?

I would have thought you'd have to use 4 pistols total to make this work. And I'm not totally sold on losing out on 5 weaponskill/utility slots by not using a different weapon set on the 2nd bar. 

 

But I do appreciate the advantage of simplicity in one's kit.  And for that reason I'm looking forward to trying your build out.

 

Both Bars act like you hold pistol/pistol. 

With this setup you can weaponswap and still will be p/p. You can therefore procc "on weaponswitch" sigils, without actually switching. 

You have 5 skills and also the stats as if you were Holding 4 pistols! But only with 2. 

You dont need shortbow,  you need the enegy sigil to make this work. 5 might for 21 seconds from sigil of battle is also mandatory to Holding 25 might.

Try the exact setup, this build is incredible! 

Use pistol 5, then dodge and swap weapons while dodging. This way you will have enough energy and i intiative to do it over and over again. Just the 5,dodge,stealthattack... 5,dodge,stealthattack.... and swap whenever the weaponswap is ready. 

This build is busted beyond believe.. vallun also mentions it:D 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Chips.7968]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:21 PM, Sinister.5792 said:

Hi, I just came back after awhile.... been a player since day 1 of GW2... i've not played for awhile but after returning, I am not happy. 

Welcome back to the game, and as others have pointed out, we have had to adapt as time goes on. Unsurprisingly, what worked in 2012 doesn't necessarily work anymore either.

They're not going to change everything just for yourself, so its either adapt or move on i'm afraid (to other classes, game modes, or entirely different games). 

You can list out your grievances, but you're shouting into the void. Why waste your time. 

*edit* just saw post date was a week ago. Oh well.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chips.7968

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Chips.7968 said:

Welcome back to the game, and as others have pointed out, we have had to adapt as time goes on. Unsurprisingly, what worked in 2012 doesn't necessarily work anymore either.

They're not going to change everything just for yourself, so its either adapt or move on i'm afraid (to other classes, game modes, or entirely different games). 

You can list out your grievances, but you're shouting into the void. Why waste your time. 

*edit* just saw post date was a week ago. Oh well.

dont worry 😄 He is playing the build that i linked him probably, and noticed that teef is stronget than it was when he left😄

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:00 AM, Sinister.5792 said:

 

19kills and above per match with minium 1-3 deaths

so you can't do that anymore, its more or less 1 kill 1 death, it's not balance. I got it.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[MATIC.9542]

18 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Both Bars act like you hold pistol/pistol. 

With this setup you can weaponswap and still will be p/p. You can therefore procc "on weaponswitch" sigils, without actually switching. 

You have 5 skills and also the stats as if you were Holding 4 pistols! But only with 2. 

You dont need shortbow,  you need the enegy sigil to make this work. 5 might for 21 seconds from sigil of battle is also mandatory to Holding 25 might.

Try the exact setup, this build is incredible! 

Use pistol 5, then dodge and swap weapons while dodging. This way you will have enough energy and i intiative to do it over and over again. Just the 5,dodge,stealthattack... 5,dodge,stealthattack.... and swap whenever the weaponswap is ready. 

This build is busted beyond believe.. vallun also mentions it:D 

 

 

Thank you for the response! 

I actually played a similar build last night, but with a shortbow for 2nd bar, and I can see how eliminating that weapon also frees up more ini to just blast away with pistolas.

 

I tried setting one pistol on each bar but was not able to, I think I'm missing something. To google!

[Sahne.6950]

36 minutes ago, MATIC.9542 said:

 

Thank you for the response! 

I actually played a similar build last night, but with a shortbow for 2nd bar, and I can see how eliminating that weapon also frees up more ini to just blast away with pistolas.

 

I tried setting one pistol on each bar but was not able to, I think I'm missing something. To google!

pistol 1  in the mainhand slot of your first weaponset.

pistol 2 in the offhand slot of your second weaponset.

if you leave a slot empty, the game will automatically fill the slot with the weapon your are using in the same slot of the other weaponset.

it also works with shortbow, but not because of what you might think.

if you cast pistol5, and then swap to bow, you can cast bow2,dodge,bow2,dodge,bow2. This is permastealth^^  But i HIGHLY advise you go with the pistol/pistol+pistol/pistol setup. cuz the sigil of battle is how you gonna get to 25 might^^

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[MATIC.9542]

my DD isnt trained up yet to build this in WvW but i'm able to approximate it in sPvP. messing around with it in the lobby right now. I can see the advantages already. Going to take some getting used to but I can see myself really enjoying it, especially since pistol is my fave thf weapon

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, MATIC.9542 said:

my DD isnt trained up yet to build this in WvW but i'm able to approximate it in sPvP. messing around with it in the lobby right now. I can see the advantages already. Going to take some getting used to but I can see myself really enjoying it, especially since pistol is my fave thf weapon

THIS DOES NOT WORK IN THE PVP LOBBY!

you need the buffood, and you need the 96% mightduration from Celestial and Aristocracy... 

The buffood also works in the FFA arena... but its cheeky 😛

For spvp you should use Deadeye or specter, they are both alot stronger.

Deadeye:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAQhrlFweYSsNmJecXnvTA-z5IeK9KCCYIUxEokFgtGAA

 

Specter

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABsqxjlhyoYpsNWLO2WnxWA-zZoOlUkA9KCiYBkxQQaDA

Edited August 17, 2022 by Sahne.6950