Why Alliances idea need to go to the trash bin

[Connla Dda.9407]

1. Guild groups fight only clouds which is annoying.

2. No proper organised zergs/blobs due to lack of voice support commanding ingame program.

3. No one cares to defend

4. Only Karma Train available

5. No server pride.

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

 

These are what comes up in my mind, please support me with more ideas why Alliances sucks.

[RedBaron.6058]

Actually you are wrong, seriously wrong.

All your points are wrongly considered negative by you because they all are very positive for the general population in WvW, especially for new players. And do not forget that until December 2022 this game will enter Steam and a lot of new players will join.

The best measure that Alliances are the best route for WvW is that Stonemist Castle rarely goes to T3 and never stays in the same hands for long. This represents a much more balanced WvW.

Capisci?

[MLinni.6109]

"You are wrong." is not constructive criticism. You may not agree with some or all of the points but please elaborate.

Also we don't really need condescension like "Capisci" as if talking to idiots.

 

For me:

1) I think that will get better because we don't really have alliances yet. ATM people can represent 1 guild and if that guild is not running events, it will be a mostly unorganized cloud. But hopefully alliances will not only consist of closed tag guild raids.

 

2) That is indeed a problem even if alliances are formed consisting of the guilds of one server. Every faction will have to have several alliances (numbers pending and subject to change), and cross alliance "server" communication may be tricky if it changes all 8 weeks.

 

3) For me I've seen too much defending really, prolly depends on who you are fighting. 

 

4) See 3)

 

5) That is also a big problem for me. While there's a lot of bandwagoners who constantly jump pairings, playing together with friends is more important for me. Fighting for the server pride is also a big motivation for me.

 

6) I guess some "elite fighting alliances" will form who will stay in the upper tiers. Depends on ANET's matching algorithm of several alliances into one faction really. If such alliances get penalized by matching them with weaker alliances for balance, it might be indeed like that.

But that is a challenge ANET will have to find a solution for.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by MLinni.6109

[Scavarius.6059]

38 minutes ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

i dont know buddy, i could tell clearly when my homeworld was in the wrong tier after the last beta.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

all alliances are playing exactly like mine and mine is perfect, fun for everyone.

 

-some dud who has no idea how other instances are doing.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

1. Guild groups fight only clouds which is annoying.

2. No proper organised zergs/blobs due to lack of voice support commanding ingame program.

3. No one cares to defend

4. Only Karma Train available

5. No server pride.

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

All 6 points also describing the link system.

[SweetPotato.7456]

No one knows how the alliance work yet, what you are talking about is the scoring system. people play the way they do because of the one up one down scoring system.

 

Lazy to start a new thread, just gonna lazily put this here.

WvW needs to take a page out of "Last Fortress"  https://rb.gy/e8venk , or "The Ants" https://rb.gy/e61bih yes, they are mobile apps, with many servers each having many "guild/alliance" fighting non stop 24/7 for Eden. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456

[Chichimec.9364]

Hmm, my beta experience is a bit different than the OP's. @Arianth Moonlight.6453 has it right though. Most of us can only describe the match up we are in and we don't know what's going on with other match ups, except for what we hear from players in other match ups. I'm actually in two completely different match ups and as of this morning, what I'm seeing in both is different than what the OP is reporting. Yes there is cloud fighting going on but not just cloud fighting. I've seen solo roamers (including one really pesky deadeye who, unfortunately, was also really, really good) as well as small group fights. I've seen some pretty solid defense of keeps and towers. Karma trains? Yes, but I've also seen open field fights as well as the roamers and small groups already mentioned. Server pride is not something I personally feel. I like the guilds I run with and I like some of the guilds my guilds run with, but for me that doesn't translate into something that could be called "server pride". Given the toxicity that can pour out in team chat, I actually ignore a lot of the folks on my servers. That's just me though and I know some folks feel otherwise, which is fine by me. Different strokes and all that.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Chichimec.9364

[RedBaron.6058]

Server pride is a urban myth, most people change servers all the time depending on the match ups...

The current beta alliance system is much better than the old match up system that perpetuates very strong servers against under dog servers, bringing unnecessary frustration to such an awesome game mode as WvW is.

I am having much more fun with the alliance system, much more commanders available, all type of fights, very dynamic and fluid frontlines, Stonemist Castle changing hands all the time instead of locked the whole match up for the stronger servers.

Alliance system is better than we have, of course that some tuning up is needed but please never ever again use the old match up system.

Thanks.

Edited August 15, 2022 by RedBaron.6058

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

>finally log in when a real fighting guild is on

>red mysteriously disappears

>MAG literally hide inside towers/SMC with a bazillion ACs

>fighting guild call it a day

>few hours later red zerg magically appears to cap everything on our side

yep, alliances FTW!

also, #BEASTGATE 4EVER!

[floppypuppy.5789]

6 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

1. Guild groups fight only clouds which is annoying.

2. No proper organised zergs/blobs due to lack of voice support commanding ingame program.

3. No one cares to defend

4. Only Karma Train available

5. No server pride.

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

 

These are what comes up in my mind, please support me with more ideas why Alliances sucks.

So just to help me understand this way of thinking, let me try to summarize:

1. I don't like what my opponents are doing therefore alliances are trash.  It doesn't matter if other matchups are different. 
2. Nobody is providing me with "proper" organized zergs therefore alliances are trash.  I won't get in comms outside of the game therefore nobody else does either and there is no organization.
3. Defending structures is exactly as meaningless as it was before, therefore alliances are trash.
4. The only thing that can be done is Karma Train.  The only thing.  Thats it.  Thats all.
5. There is no arbitrary identity to adopt.  Therefore alliances are trash.
6. There are no more population advantages therefore alliances are trash.  This must also mean that all matchups are the same as mine.

Do I misunderstand?

[Riba.3271]

You are right. Alliances are bad.

But linking system is even worse since it actually incentivises people to transfer and stack servers for pop advantage while leaving lot of servers full+unlinked or underpopulated.

The pre-linking system with less servers where transferring to higher pop servers cost more and each tier had their regular enemies was much better. PPT also mattered more and if fighters wanted to build their own place while playing against populated servers, they needed to PPT.

 

Unfortunately I made many posts and comments about how link system fails and anet has chosen to ignore the original WvW devs ideas. Guess having a great game doesn't sell enough.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Riba.3271

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

10 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

1. Guild groups fight only clouds which is annoying.

2. No proper organised zergs/blobs due to lack of voice support commanding ingame program.

3. No one cares to defend

4. Only Karma Train available

5. No server pride.

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

 

These are what comes up in my mind, please support me with more ideas why Alliances sucks.

nice trolling effort

1) is your personal interpretation. normally, guilds find guilds to fight, but in beta weeks some dont raid, most will do tho. others just run in bigger open groups, which the very few leftovers of competitive guilds can still fight

2) ... random claim. we use discord since long time (and before teamspeak). like srsly, with that theory, there never ever been organized zergs, and ur obviously wrong as hell here
 

3) maybe nobody scouted or nobody is online at that time. sometimes bigger groups are just bound to some fight and cannot defend random tower on random map just bc someone scouts it, too.

 

4) ? i mean the random mist buff obv encourages karmatrains. but people do these anyways, there never was any sense or reason behind ktraining empty objectives, but it obviously is a thing also in the betas

5) server pride is dead anyways, therefore simply off complaint

6) u cannot go up in a tier anyways in a beta. the real version will likely have tiers again. (while tiers are pointless anyways, as they are all equal. there's zero value of beeing in higher tiers, unless there's things to do there)

[Varheroth.6748]

I agree that server pride, or belonging to the same faction (or order, bring in Orders from PvE to identify for example!) would encourage more players to play for their team. Instead of just being a number in the hands of some guild owners doing zerg runs from keep to keep. WvW will be dead soon, if it means you need to chose one guild or one alliance to play with or fight for, and not being able to play with your former server friends bc they are not in said guild, or alliance set. So instead of alliance make it factions /orders to chose and fight for. With stylish difference in their keep's appearance, armor and weapon sets^^ (gem store cash flood)

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Varheroth.6748

[Reborn.2934]

13 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

1. Guild groups fight only clouds which is annoying.

2. No proper organised zergs/blobs due to lack of voice support commanding ingame program.

3. No one cares to defend

4. Only Karma Train available

5. No server pride.

6. There is no point to go up with tiers, as population is more less equally distributed, so same fights in all tiers.

 

These are what comes up in my mind, please support me with more ideas why Alliances sucks.

 

yes there are more than 6 reasons my friend and i am collecting them all now., but all these are all correct and valid!

 

They can create Alliances but not like this. I have arleady write what we asked in old forums before 9 years ...

 

[Chichimec.9364]

9 hours ago, Varheroth.6748 said:

I agree that server pride, or belonging to the same faction (or order, bring in Orders from PvE to identify for example!) would encourage more players to play for their team. Instead of just being a number in the hands of some guild owners doing zerg runs from keep to keep. WvW will be dead soon, if it means you need to chose one guild or one alliance to play with or fight for, and not being able to play with your former server friends bc they are not in said guild, or alliance set...

 

 

14 hours ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

Server pride is a urban myth, most people change servers all the time depending on the match ups...

For me, server pride really is just an urban myth. I don't play for my server team. I play because I like to run with the folks in my guilds, because I enjoy the game play in WvW, and because I'm getting rewards - legendaries - that I very much like. As for my server - some of the individuals and guilds on there I like. Some I don't. The Alliance my WvW guild joined is a coalition of guilds we like on our server as well as those we like from other servers. Individuals and guilds we don't like are not in our Alliance. So to me, the Alliance system is the exact opposite of what you are saying. It won't stop us from playing with folks we like on our server. Instead, it will exclude the individuals and guilds that our guild doesn't like.

In case you are wondering who makes the decisions about invitations, the leaders of the guilds already in the Alliance decide together which new guilds get invites. Our Alliance is almost at the 500 cap atm and so far I haven't heard any disagreement from the rank and file about who is in our Alliance and who isn't. I'm rank and file and I'm fine with our Alliance's composition.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

It's like saying the car is kitten after all was tested are the wheels. 

All was done is testing on a small part of the system but suuuuuuuuure, the full system that we didn't even have seen yet is trash. 

 

[MarkBecks.6453]

So unbalanced, 8k tick for green that owns most of everything, small sliver of red, and even smaller sliver of blue, so unmatched, so unbalanced, Devs will have to relook at how the system works.

On the positive side, I think this was a server stress test, and so far lag has not been that bad, but seems lot of people are running at low fps. I know this is a test phase, but at the moment, you cannot really test the servers unless you have full equally balanced teams all fighting in the same instance, so unsure how much info they will get out of it.

No one defending, and perma stealth thieves stopping people at spawn, while green blob caps everything, this seriously kills the game for new players, and cause frustration and players, especially new ones come into map, get killed and leave (please dont say get gud). This should be looked at seriously if you want to grow the numbers which have dwindled, as a lot of pve players only come for gift of battle, and I only see them joining alliances to get this gift, then adios and goodbye till next time
.
I play scrapper, but when I proc "reveal" I see nothing, yet thief is still spamming his pistol dagger and is within range at spawn, and imo, this has long been a problem with any reveal skill that DO not reveal the thief.

Sad thing is, I joined an Alliance that has many players, but sadly, their are language barriers from Commanders which is always going to be an issue with cross pollination, and yet another barrier for the players to figure out.