I realized one of the biggest problems with EoD final meta

[Gorem.8104]

9 hours ago, ProtoGunner.4953 said:

And again: still an issue? I don't know is this a US server thing that they fail? Since about 1-2 weeks after release I've done this map regularly without big problems. Sure de event failed from time to time, but now? I don't know. People seem to be just utterly casual and complain when they play in a half empty map on 3 AM.

You understand that this post pretty much agree's with everyone saying the DE meta was designed badly, correct? 
No one is doing the meta anymore, so of course it will succeed more often, all the casuals have been weeded out, cause when they do show up, chat turns toxic at the sheer hate thrown towards them. 

Why would normal average players want to do content that causes both toxicity and them wasting their time over 2 hours?  Hence most will see an increase in completion rates. The only people doing it are the people who want to do content that is less rewarding then other parts of the game and are elitist. 

No matter what people say at this point, eventually the DE meta will be nerfed. Just wait for Steam 🙂

Edited August 22, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Silent.6137]

5 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

No one is doing the meta anymore, so of course it will succeed more often, all the casuals have been weeded out, cause when they do show up, chat turns toxic at the sheer hate thrown towards them.

You kept saying the same thing over and over again. How would you know since you haven't done it in ages? Toxicity? Only in your mind. Every single metas there, there are plenty of casuals. But of course you wouldn't know that, right? Since you probably base your statements on something from 4 or 5 months ago.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Silent.6137

[AliamRationem.5172]

14 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

You understand that this post pretty much agree's with everyone saying the DE meta was designed badly, correct? 
No one is doing the meta anymore, so of course it will succeed more often, all the casuals have been weeded out, cause when they do show up, chat turns toxic at the sheer hate thrown towards them. 

Why would normal average players want to do content that causes both toxicity and them wasting their time over 2 hours?  Hence most will see an increase in completion rates. The only people doing it are the people who want to do content that is less rewarding then other parts of the game and are elitist. 

No matter what people say at this point, eventually the DE meta will be nerfed. Just wait for Steam 🙂

So, if the only people doing the meta are successful squads, wouldn't that mean anyone who wishes to complete the event can join a squad and expect a good chance of success?  That matches my experience, in fact. 

As I've said, I hate the amount of time required to prepare for this meta so after being turned off by failing it several times in the early days of the event, I bought the item I needed for my turtle from the vendor when it became available and forgot about DE for awhile.

However, I really enjoy the boss battle itself and recently I've been making time for it.  Now that a lot more people are familiar with it, I've found that nearly every squad I join in LFG is successful.  The main sticking point is that I need to show up an hour ahead of start time to avoid being unable to get into the map due to the low population cap.

I've seen exactly zero gatekeeping on these squads.  The squad leaders do all the work of dividing the groups up to provide support and usually just a squad message directing subgroups on where to go is all that's necessary to win.  I've found groups doing this meta at all hours, even very early in the morning.

I even recorded and uploaded my run from this morning to share on a reddit thread to get GW2 a little exposure ahead of the Steam release.  You can see me noobing it up not attacking the tail (I'm not sure where it is or when to attack it?), getting downed a couple of times (once I'm not even sure how as people around me didn't get downed?), and going to the wrong platform during the split.  I didn't see anybody sniping at anyone and we completed the event with 5 minutes to spare.  So what's the problem here?

 

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And you have not 99%, but 100% of raids.

Why do you keep making that weird comparison where you try to make it about "open world vs raids"? IF you even need those weird comparisons then maaaaybe make it about "open world vs instanced content" (although I don't see that as a needed distinction either) and then remember about low tier fractals, majority of strike missions, some of the ""raids"" that aren't really raids, but some kind of escort sidemissions, drms, story content and so on. How are your percentages now? 🤦‍♂️  It's not some sort of "instanced content belongs to you and OW belongs to me" deal, varying levels of difficulty across the game's content is perfectly reasonable to have.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

15 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Interesting how on the one hand, you have someone suggesting extra development resources go into accommodating the skilled player desire by making an instanced version of this (as opposed to just nerfing it)

It's not really interesting since there's no good reason to suddenly try and turn it into instanced content.

15 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I am seeing this thing about it not being the same or something if it's instanced? But doing this meta as an organized squad in voice chat who tried to get everyone out of map who is not doing it, is basically doing it instanced already.

But this is not at all how I've seen this event succeed (both in the past and recently, repeatedly), so I'm not sure what you're talking about here other than what you imagine people playing there do.

I think it's safe to put it in the same bag as someone saying "people don't play this event" based on nothing more than the fact they personally don't play it.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

You understand that this post pretty much agree's with everyone saying the DE meta was designed badly, correct? 
No one is doing the meta anymore, so of course it will succeed more often, all the casuals have been weeded out, cause when they do show up, chat turns toxic at the sheer hate thrown towards them. 

Why would normal average players want to do content that causes both toxicity and them wasting their time over 2 hours?  Hence most will see an increase in completion rates. The only people doing it are the people who want to do content that is less rewarding then other parts of the game and are elitist. 

No matter what people say at this point, eventually the DE meta will be nerfed. Just wait for Steam 🙂

As a casual, this has not been my experience, but then I do not consider someone giving some basic directions to be hateful or a toxic attack.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Ultramex.1506]

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

You understand that this post pretty much agree's with everyone saying the DE meta was designed badly, correct? 
No one is doing the meta anymore, so of course it will succeed more often, all the casuals have been weeded out, cause when they do show up, chat turns toxic at the sheer hate thrown towards them. 

Why would normal average players want to do content that causes both toxicity and them wasting their time over 2 hours?  Hence most will see an increase in completion rates. The only people doing it are the people who want to do content that is less rewarding then other parts of the game and are elitist. 

No matter what people say at this point, eventually the DE meta will be nerfed. Just wait for Steam 🙂

The only thing i understand about this DE being "badly" designed is the pre-pre event and low map cap

Other than that, the fight ain't hard and most players that joined seem casual to me, tag ask for role on lfg but not gear/build check or killproof just the required boon after that anybody can join, if you think 50 peoples doing this per day are toxic elitist, then wow gw2 sure have larger elitist playerbase than we were led to believe, i never did raid or CM but by your logic im the elite too

And it has already been nerfed, more people do it now for gold 🙃

Edited August 23, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Luci.7018]

1 hour ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

The only thing i understand about this DE being "badly" designed is the pre-pre event and low map cap

Other than that, the fight ain't hard and most players that joined seem casual to me, tag ask for role on lfg but not gear/build check or killproof just the required boon after that anybody can join, if you think 50 peoples doing this per day are toxic elitist, than wow gw2 sure have larger elitist playerbase than we are led to believe, i never did raid or CM but by your logic im the elite too

And its has already been nerfed, more people do it now for gold 🙃

Now that i thinking it over more clearly , they should leave it alone and simply postpone the Story/Strike for a couple of months and instead create an OW meta for the masses . People don't tend to go back in old things even if they buff the rewards (see Marionette)

So all kind of people  can play they content they want , rather than the stories that can be completed in 2hours , while in the same time  giving the writers  time to come up with new stories , now that the Dragon Saga have ended

Edited August 23, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Gorem.8104]

Hook line and sinker, you all make this too easy. 
Like I said, doesn't matter, when Steam releases and if the game does get a slew of new players that do manage to make it this far, there is no way it won't be nerfed hard unless Anet truly wants GW2 to die as a game and have its servers shut down, now would anyone like that? Would that be a good thing, for no one to be able to play GW2 for the rest of our lives? 🙂

[AliamRationem.5172]

22 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Hook line and sinker, you all make this too easy. 
Like I said, doesn't matter, when Steam releases and if the game does get a slew of new players that do manage to make it this far, there is no way it won't be nerfed hard unless Anet truly wants GW2 to die as a game and have its servers shut down, now would anyone like that? Would that be a good thing, for no one to be able to play GW2 for the rest of our lives? 🙂

How dramatic...

 

[Sobx.1758]

41 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Hook line and sinker, you all make this too easy. 
Like I said, doesn't matter, when Steam releases and if the game does get a slew of new players that do manage to make it this far, there is no way it won't be nerfed hard unless Anet truly wants GW2 to die as a game and have its servers shut down, now would anyone like that? Would that be a good thing, for no one to be able to play GW2 for the rest of our lives? 🙂

It's hilarious that you think players using steam are somehow not capable of learning mechanics or overally progressing in the games they play just because you refuse to do so, which subsequently is supposed to somehow make the change you want inevitable 🤦‍♂️ 

It gets even funnier when you realize plenty of people enjoy farming up steam achievements on top of ingame achievements. That surely means they don't like challenging themselves in the games they play 🙃

Edited August 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Hook line and sinker, you all make this too easy. 
Like I said, doesn't matter, when Steam releases and if the game does get a slew of new players that do manage to make it this far, there is no way it won't be nerfed hard unless Anet truly wants GW2 to die as a game and have its servers shut down, now would anyone like that? Would that be a good thing, for no one to be able to play GW2 for the rest of our lives? 🙂

 

That is your argument and worry? Lol.

 

In your case I'd be far more worried that a set of new players with fresh enthusiasm enters the game, exposed to bazillion guides on how to play and improve at the game coming in and outperforming 10 year old veterans stuck in their ways. I can absolutely see some players quitting over this.

 

We shall see. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

That is your argument and worry? Lol.

 

In your case I'd be far more worried that a set of new players with fresh enthusiasm enters the game, exposed to bazillion guides on how to play and improve at the game coming in and outperforming 10 year old veterans stuck in their ways. I can absolutely see some players quitting over this.

 

We shall see. 

Are you going to use the same tactic also ?

Force them into trainning guilds , while they bicker about the old lfg + 250kpgroups  ?

You cannot create an friendly-Istanced-community like FF14 , that in the same time adore you like Teapot.

They will simply use the Trainning guild as a different channel , and when they collect the itemsand re-try the lfg , they will join ours ranks

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Izzy.2951]

18 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

The goal of the PvE map , is to teach the General Population  to do the mechanics (cc-steap out of cc -rez-don't die - greens) . It's mid-lvl-progression.

 

People doing it over and over  , get used to them and that should be the goal  .

But the timer discourage people from doing it again , that why the majority when they see that dps is low at the entry bosses , they start fishing and give up the event .

While other groups  create groups in a different map so the low-dps-player won't join them

 

 

 

If you add more timer, its just gonna be a non stop request until literally half of the map afk can get the event. If you put 10 minutes more in the timer, you are not gonna get ppl learning how to play the game or doing the mechanics. What your gonna get is 20 ppl doing properly the meta, and 30 not doing the mechanics just random stuff, leeching or even with alts (cos its a profitable meta tbh).

Again for future events like this, my only request is the time for pre-events be much lower. Like a total of 30-45min max (including boss)

Edited August 23, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Cyninja.2954]

24 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Are you going to use the same tactic also ?

Force them into trainning guilds , while they bicker about the old lfg + 250kpgroups  ?

You cannot create an friendly-Istanced-community like FF14 , that in the same time adore you like Teapot

 

Force them? Nope. Players are free to play as they want. Given all the resources available today though, it allows for many to avoid the mistakes and inefficiencies some veterans have "acquired and never shaken" if they so desire.

 

Man, I wonder how much it must sting if a new player comes in and eventually asks the question some of you might fear:"So you've played this game for 10 years and never became remotely decent at it?"

[Labjax.2465]

To restate and try to summarize something I touched on in an earlier post in a tired haze: there is going to be a curve of player skill. How steep it is can change, but there's going to be some kind of curve. So if anet wants an open world meta to be something that will be completed by most pug groups and perceived as a meta that will succeed, they need to balance such that the people at the higher end of the curve can carry the people at the lower end of the curve.

Otherwise, what you get is what happened with EoD. Groups having to select for people at the higher end of the curve to ensure success.

Some people on the higher end of the curve view this resentfully, like there's something wrong with it, but there is no avoiding it in the pug environment of open world. If you are a player who falls on the higher end, you're going to be carrying some of the ones who fall on the lower end. You probably already have been for a long time. The only thing anet can do about it is try to flatten the curve some in design of classes and what the game teaches you. If anet doesn't do anything to meaningfully flatten the curve and still tries to balance metas like the metas alone are going to force the curve to be closer to flat, they are going to encounter a brick wall every time.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Force them? Nope. Players are free to play as they want. Given all the resources available today though, it allows for many to avoid the mistakes and inefficiencies some veterans have "acquired and never shaken" if they so desire.

 

Man, I wonder how much it must sting if a new player comes in and eventually asks the question some of you might fear:"So you've played this game for 10 years and never became remotely decent at it?"

Decent at what ? Dps meters ?

If they further nerf the dps of  Ele , are you going to fire another Dev ?

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Decent at what ? Dps meters ?

If they further nerf the Ele , are you going to fire another Dev ?

 

Decent at understanding the basic game mechanics, that's all it takes to actually succeed at any of this games content.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Decent at understanding the basic game mechanics, that's all it takes to actually succeed at any of this games content.

What basic things ?

Because i see people , don't have a problem with understanding the mechanics . Even in stream of Teapot , people could understand the tactics

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Cyninja.2954]

2 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

What basic things ?

Because i see people , don't have a problem with understanding the mechanics . Even in stream of Teapot , people could understand the tactics

 

 

Hmmm keep telling yourself that. The good thing is, the things you don't know or understand you won't worry about, until that 4 week new account player starts outperforming you, but then again he is "only playing for dps".

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Hmmm keep telling yourself that. The good thing is, the things you don't know or understand you won't worry about, until that 4 week new account player starts outperforming you, but then again he is "only playing for dps".

I don't have a problem some1 outperforming me , with my 1k dps .

The problem is are you surely going to take the same steps when they whine about the lfg and 250kp groups ? You will keep the same tactic ?

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Cyninja.2954]

5 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

I don't have a problem some1 outperforming me , with my 1k dps .

and I don't believe that the vast majority of players mirrors that sentiment if given the opportunity to improve.

I'm a firm believer in the fact that humans in general enjoy learning and improving and stagnation becomes boring. The fact that you are fine with stagnation is also okay, I absolutely don't mind. I merely wonder how this will feel when fresh players call this into question and not just us nasty nasty veteran raiders that are the doom of this game, that is all.

Quote

The problem is are you surely going to take the same steps when they whine about the lfg and 250kp groups ?

I'm not taking any steps. I'm pretty sure the grouping mechanisms in this game will ruffle some feathers. I'm also pretty sure that given the vast amount of resources available, it will be a far smaller issue to train new players versus convincing old players that they are terrible at the game (from a performance perspective).

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

43 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

and I don't believe that the vast majority of players mirrors that sentiment if given the opportunity to improve.

I'm a firm believer in the fact that humans in general enjoy learning and improving and stagnation becomes boring. The fact that you are fine with stagnation is also okay, I absolutely don't mind. I merely wonder how this will feel when fresh players call this into question and not just us nasty nasty veteran raiders that are the doom of this game, that is all.

People enjoy learning

Having a boss that unnecesery large HP , so they use LI builds , is not the correct answer.

Raiders whinning about the Mechanics in Reddit , will motivate people to use those LI for fun

Quote

I'm not taking any steps. I'm pretty sure the grouping mechanisms in this game will ruffle some feathers. I'm also pretty sure that given the vast amount of resources available, it will be a far smaller issue to train new players versus convincing old players that they are terrible at the game (from a performance perspective).

The resources are already there

If you are not going to fire another Devs for nerfing the damage of the Eles , you can have a beautiful mode called CM STrikes ,regardles of the population

 

Edit: I see ..i must prepere myself for the future casual increase . I know where this is going again 😛

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Cyninja.2954]

36 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

People enjoy learning

Having a boss that unnecesery large HP , so they use LI builds , is not the correct answer.

Raiders whinning about the Mechanics in Reddit , will motivate people to use those LI for fun

The resources are already there

If you are not going to fire another Devs for nerfing the damage of the Eles , you can have a beautiful mode called CM STrikes ,regardles of the population

 

Edit: I see ..i must prepere myself for the future casual increase . I know where this is going again 😛

 

You seem to be under the delusion that LI builds and useless builds are one and the same. No arguing with that. Back to what I said earlier: some players don't understand the basics of this games mechanics, in this case build craft.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

You seem to be under the delusion that LI builds and useless builds are one and the same. No arguing with that. Back to what I said earlier: some players don't understand the basics of this games mechanics, in this case build craft.

Having a boss like Soo-Won , have extremly huge amount of hp ,  so they are forced to use LI and then join Raids , is a flawed idea . It should be organically and slowly .

 

Or shutting them to Training guilds to create a "happy community" . They will create a "noobie-like-community" that will be kind to each other , but when they try the lfg and the kp ,then they will come to our conclusion.

The only thing that you re-do , is that you will blame the old-casuals from scarring away new people

Edited August 23, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940