The balance in open world is inconsistent

[Urud.4925]

I usually don't kill world bosses that often, but since we had this new Decade achievements, I revisited some of them (for the first time after the revamp).

They are not bad, but it's quite weird to spend 8 minutes on the Behemoth and the Great Jungle Wurm, 11 on the Svanir shaman and 3 on the Shatterer and the Claw of Jormag. I think this recent balance slipped out of the hand.

In the past (post PoF) people cried because ArenaNet decided to nerf the new (and OP) elite specs, rather buffing the old ones. Now they gave us (unfortunately) what people wanted: buffs (so I'm not blaming ArenaNet entirely). The problem is that old content that was too easy, has been now balanced with the current power creep in mind. With the result that it takes more to kill a revamped Behemoth or a norn shaman (I didn't see any change for this boss, but it seems definitely tougher than before) than... a dragon!

Can you try to balance things in open world? The Claw of Jormag is now a joke with the mounts (especially turtles) since you can entirely skip the iced wall. Same for the second phase where you are supposed to escort the golems melting the ice; people just stack in a bubble and overheal/grant barriers (it's in this state for quite some time tbh, not entirely fault of the recent balance patch. But it's a pity to have good mechanics, and having them completely ignored). The Shatterer is also a joke, since the introduction of the EMP stations: it dies in the first phase now; once upon a time it was required to use the launching pad.

 

Is it really a good idea to buff the players, leaving most of the old content at the same level? Once you start to give us power, you should revamp all the old content, or you'll have dragons that die faster than a norn shaman. Not epic.

[patton the great.7126]

I did always find it strange that svanir chief guy was a harder kill than literal dragon champions. Now I'm just a simple country pvpr, but I've done my share of world boss's, I've always been curious about this. Best answer I can give is it keeps the train on schedule, no waiting around and no going over time limit. Everything has an estimated kill time to keep the already normally empty maps full when the boss pops. From a wb train standpoint that's all that ever made sense. Math sucks but it keeps the power on!

[patton the great.7126]

Sorry double post

Edited September 3, 2022 by patton the great.7126
Double

[Ausar.9542]

I like the Meta bosses to be adjusted for Expansion power Creep. The new Shaman update was a major improvement. That fight is a lot more fun and random feeling.

[vanfrano.1325]

I did the Shaman yesterday and it has way too much HP, I don't know who thought this "update" was ok. The mechanics are uninteresting and boring, the Shaman often goes out of his zone and becomes invulnerable until he comes back, it took around 14min which is ridiculous. I think it's the worst boss since the update.

On the other hand I agree that a lot of bosses need to be tuned up, like all metas in HoT & PoF, DBS, Jormag, etc... Open world needs to be tuned up in general because of the huge powercreep. And no, I don't mean turning all bosses into HP sponges like the Shaman.

Edited September 4, 2022 by vanfrano.1325

[Gehenna.3625]

I suspect the other world bosses will also be overhauled at some point. It's just not high enough on the priority list I think. Just my opinion of course.

[Urud.4925]

3 hours ago, vanfrano.1325 said:

I did the Shaman yesterday and it has way too much HP, I don't know who thought this "update" was ok. The mechanics are uninteresting and boring, the Shaman often goes out of his zone and becomes invulnerable until he comes back, it took around 14min which is ridiculous. I think it's the worst boss since the update.

On the other hand I agree that a lot of bosses need to be tuned up, like all metas in HoT & PoF, DBS, Jormag, etc... Open world needs to be tuned up in general because of the huge powercreep. And no, I don't mean turning all bosses into HP sponges like the Shaman.

Yes, my feeling as well. Too much HP and no interesting mechanics in the end (but I like that now he moves a bit, rather than staying still like before). My point wasn't to nerf us at the same level of 5 years ago (even if it would be easiest "fix", also to keep some achievement still relevant), but if we want to keep this level of power, because ppl like to see high numbers, some other boss also deserve some adjustment.

Maybe they'll do it in the future, like @Gehenna.3625 said. It would be the... 3rd (?) overhaul for the Shatterer.

The problem with the fixing upwards is that the fight must work both with lv80 players that use mounts and EMP stations AND new players that don't have these things yet.

[Andy.5981]

19 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

Yes, my feeling as well. Too much HP and no interesting mechanics in the end (but I like that now he moves a bit, rather than staying still like before). My point wasn't to nerf us at the same level of 5 years ago (even if it would be easiest "fix", also to keep some achievement still relevant), but if we want to keep this level of power, because ppl like to see high numbers, some other boss also deserve some adjustment.

Maybe they'll do it in the future, like @Gehenna.3625 said. It would be the... 3rd (?) overhaul for the Shatterer.

The problem with the fixing upwards is that the fight must work both with lv80 players that use mounts and EMP stations AND new players that don't have these things yet.

The Claw of Jormag is an easy fix.

Make the Icewall immune to mount damage and EMPs so that players have to hit it themselves. Then make the area surrounding the Claw where the final phase take place an area of immense cold, where you will die within seconds. The only time it lifts is when the Golems have delivered enough bombs to break the Claws wall and players can rush in to damage.

HP wise the Claw of Jomag is fine, its the bypassing of the mechanics that isn't.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Andy.5981

[kharmin.7683]

6 hours ago, vanfrano.1325 said:

I did the Shaman yesterday and it has way too much HP, I don't know who thought this "update" was ok. The mechanics are uninteresting and boring....

 

To be fair, it is a starter zone world boss, so it probably shouldn't be too engaging/complex for new players.  I do agree that his HP are too high.

[Ausar.9542]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

To be fair, it is a starter zone world boss, so it probably shouldn't be too engaging/complex for new players.  I do agree that his HP are too high.

nah screw that. GW2 is different from the norm. All zones are endgame. Open World content including more difficulty gameplay if open to casuals since its usually off-set by vet players

[Endaris.1452]

23 minutes ago, Ausar.9542 said:

nah screw that. GW2 is different from the norm. All zones are endgame. Open World content including more difficulty gameplay if open to casuals since its usually off-set by vet players

I'd agree with that but having the boss being a HP sponge has very little to do with including difficult gameplay.

[Vapir.3519]

I can also add the lost possibility to get "Dispelling Shadows" achievement on Shadow Behemoth now, because the portals have too much HP.

[Khisanth.2948]

Adding HP to a boring fight just turns it into a long and boring fight. It doesn't make it more challenging or interesting.

People have been ignoring the Claw phase 2 mechanic since release. The main difference is that it no longer drag out the fight. As for using mount for phase 1, is standing there with the gun on autoattack really that much of a difference from using a mount?

[itspomf.9523]

I'll make you a counteroffer:  nerf all the new stuff because the prevalence of boons and mounts, combined with ever more potent elite specs, are the root cause of this problem.  No one complained the game "wasn't hard enough" back before Heart of Thorns happened (and wiped out most of the casual players with it, mind).

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Haven't played it yet, are the rewards at least better?

[Khisanth.2948]

26 minutes ago, ProtoGunner.4953 said:

Haven't played it yet, are the rewards at least better?

No

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Crapfest, the rewards of world bosses are atrocious, bunch of blue/green stuff and maybe a rare --> salvage crap. No excitement. Well at least some world bosses drop a ascended coffer but that's ultra rare.

[Ausar.9542]

Now if only Fire Shaman Meta could get the Meta Boss Timer treatment

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

It has nothing to do with world bosses. the health and damage of all enemies in the Central Tyria zones is way too low. Its so bad that new players don't even benefit from healers or anything unless they're specifically at an event that can wipe them (like a group event), as normal events pose no challenge even to the most inexperienced players. You can get through all of it by literally just auto-attacking and healing yourself with #6.

 

Players have been complaining about it for many years, with even brand-new players coming here and talking about how they almost one-shot monsters at lv40 wearing masterwork gear, and how mind-numbingly boring the open-world grind to lv80 was for fresh players (which is why the experience had to be boosted so much).

 

We all know the stories of high-level players causing enemies to vanish into thin air, but forget the simpler problems like how a few on-level players on a heart quest in Central Tyria still have to compete for resources, now moreso with their raptors. This is because damage has been drastically increased across the board over the years, even for players without traits due to base weapon and utility skill damage and functionality buffs. (For example, many beginner's builds now stack Might and provide ample Fury.)

 

The power creep of even the most basic, unfeatured builds is often overlooked. Meanwhile, enemies haven't been touched at all, and were in fact made easier at one point during the last new player experience update. When it comes to Core balance, Big Nose Ted is the exception, not the rule.

 

All enemies across the board need the world boss treatment.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508