Wintrading at an all time high

[Tescao.3042]

And bliss is awareness.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

28 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Definition of narcissistic
: of, relating to, or characterized by narcissism: such as
a: extremely self-centered with an exaggerated sense of self-importance : marked by or characteristic of excessive admiration of or infatuation with oneself

Calling someone a narcissist when they have to go out of their way to correct your misinformation & misrepresentation of quotes is hardly warranted, nor does it make any sense.

Now see what you did here was throw more ad hominems, which is another logical fallacy. You always tend to resort to this when you have nothing left to argue with.

I on the other hand, have done nothing but point out and correct your misinformation and attempts to misrepresent statements, in the midst of your strange confirmation bias. I certainly didn't insult you.

In light of your own behavior, perhaps you are misunderstanding the difference between narcissism and showing class with conduct.

[Ragnar.4257]

6 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Calling someone a narcissist when they have to go out of their way to correct your misinformation & misrepresentation of quotes is hardly warranted, nor does it make any sense.

Now see what you did here was throw more ad hominems, which is another logical fallacy. You always tend to resort to this when you have nothing left to argue with.

I on the other hand, have done nothing but point out and correct your misinformation and attempts to misrepresent statements, in the midst of your strange confirmation bias. I certainly didn't insult you.

In light of your own behavior, perhaps you are misunderstanding the difference between narcissism and showing class with conduct.

The irony is mindblowing.

I just explained in the last post how you mis-represented the post that you are claming was mis-representative of you.

And all of this is frankly pathetic avoidance of my core point on the topic of this thread. Which I will re-iterate again:

Does wintrading happen? Yes. But not to the extent that various people, including persons other than TrevorBoyer, are claiming.

If you're stuck in gold (and, apparently I have to specify that this isn't directed at Trevor), it's not because win-trading is holding you down.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

The irony is mindblowing.

I just explained in the last post how you mis-represented the post that you are claming was mis-representative of you.

And all of this is frankly pathetic avoidance of my core point on the topic of this thread. Which I will re-iterate again:

Does wintrading happen? Yes. But not to the extent that various people, including persons other than TrevorBoyer, are claiming.

If you're stuck in gold (and, apparently I have to specify that this isn't directed at Trevor), it's not because win-trading is holding you down.

Alright.

Now you're claiming that I am somehow denying this point when I've said neither here nor there about. The only things I have been responding to you on, are your direct statements towards me, that used my own quotes.

I could care less about this point you've made about everyone else.

Once again Ragnar, all I said is that it was "bad" this season, and that in the past 4 or 5 days as a legitimate organic solo queue sitting around 1580, I cannot find any margins of time to queue clean games. I never denied your statement or even commented on your statement at all. I only commented on your use of my own comments convoluted into the statements of others.

 

[ResJudicator.7916]

I just can't imagine there being enough of a demand for bragging rights from PvErs to make win-trading as prevalent as is claimed.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think what is happening more often is just two good players duo-queuing, where one of the good players is on a smurf account.  So they wind up with a lower team MMR, which makes the matchup imbalanced (or even more imbalanced than it would have been). 

 

Blowout matches are typical even without wintrading just because conquest is so snow-bally.  If the other team has better +1rs and you lose a teamfight, there's a good chance your team just gets outnumbered the rest of the match because the average player doesn't read the minimap or think about regrouping. 

 

I'd just suggest we remove duo-queuing.  And in the unlikely event there is some global win-trading conspiracy going on, eliminating duo-queues will help with that, too.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 hours ago, ResJudicator.7916 said:

I just can't imagine there being enough of a demand for bragging rights from PvErs to make win-trading as prevalent as is claimed.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think what is happening more often is just two good players duo-queuing, where one of the good players is on a smurf account.  So they wind up with a lower team MMR, which makes the matchup imbalanced (or even more imbalanced than it would have been). 

 

Blowout matches are typical even without wintrading just because conquest is so snow-bally.  If the other team has better +1rs and you lose a teamfight, there's a good chance your team just gets outnumbered the rest of the match because the average player doesn't read the minimap or think about regrouping. 

 

I'd just suggest we remove duo-queuing.  And in the unlikely event there is some global win-trading conspiracy going on, eliminating duo-queues will help with that, too.

Question:

Go ahead and youtube up: "he paid 10,000 for gizmo"

Enjoy

Edited September 7, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Bast.7253]

4 hours ago, Tescao.3042 said:

And bliss is awareness.

Is it awareness or whatever you're puffing? Cus I want some after that sermon.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

16 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

They certainly aren't bottom of the barrel. They are all good players but realistically they are no better than the legitimate players who organically climb to around 1580 - 1600ish margins. They transcend these margins through many methods of manipulation, which we've already discussed. I don't just mean win trading or direct manipulations like smurfing or queue dodging, I'm also talking general meta gaming, social games, all this stuff that equates to having easier matches. Some of it wouldn't even be considered against any current or previous form of TOS actually, but it still is equating to easier queues and when you get down to it, it is a form of gaming the queue system.

Well now who's praising them, right?

I don't buy this. There's pretty much nothing to distinguish them from the average individual p2 player, other than the match manipulation, but that makes them worse than the average p2 player if anything.

If they're better they should stop metagaming and wintrading and just play the game to prove it, then maybe we can get some heroes that aren't counterfeit.

7 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

very odd how no one can seem to escape these wintraders, they simply have no limits! even half of them didnt get any bans or dishonor when anet investigated 100 individual players! have they infiltrated anet too?!?!?!

Yes, that person that you queue with proved that before the post was taken down.

Anyone who saved the link can still read chatlogs from the secret, not so secret discord. 

If anyone wants it 🤙

5 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

and that they could totally win MAT with any random assortment of P1 players, is straight delusional.

😂

If there's one thing I enjoy its making my goodfellows smile, but this definitely isn't delusion. A quick gander at the leaderboard would show that P1 has nearly become the standard for top 25 in Ranked. The population of P1 players that completed 120 games just barely, maybe in the triple digits.

The real challenge isn't winning the MAT with the random assortment of plats, its finding the random assortment of plats to begin with. Not exactly a lot of reason for them to stick around when cheaters ruin the competitive ladder.

[Tescao.3042]

4 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

Is it awareness or whatever you're puffing? Cus I want some after that sermon.

sorry buddy, but now I'm just observing

[Kuma.1503]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:02 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This season though, it isn't just win trading that I've had to queue dodge. I've noticed this VERY large increase in alt phases they do, where they just get A LOT of players to go on alts and queue games, and whenever they catch upper leaderboard players in those matches, they throw on them to knock them down the leaderboard. It's apparently now an important part of keeping your mains rated high. Easier to throw upper leaderboard players down in ranking with -25 on a loss than it is to play your main up with +1s and +2s on wins. Pretty sure this is what's going on, because there is just an enormous amount of alt throwing going on this season. They aren't even boosting anyone man, they're just throwing games to knock everyone down. Again, the amount of time I'm seeing these accounts actively playing and doing this is absurd. They are not allowing legitimate players any room to queue any clean games at all.

Translation: Not only do clean players have to deal with the Wintrade BS, but they also have to deal with clean high elo players who are forced to play in lower elos due to the Wintrade BS.

Even when you get a clean game, the matchmaking is scuffed. 

And they let the steam release go through like this. What a joke. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

Hello pretty people. The privileged ones can have their cake and eat it too. I want to keep things civil and say that IRL, I know men who are charming "ladies men" and happen to say the right things at the right moment to the right person/prospect. They know when to smile, make deep eye contact, blurt a joke to incite laughter.  But it's only a facade, a double persona because deep inside, their real desire is to be with the same gender. I'm ok with that and embrace diversity even though I am fiscally conservative. 

 

Win trading gives a false sense of power whilst generating income. For most cases it's the combination of both. For some, its one or the other.  Overall, it's degenerative nature will ultimately lead to the destruction of the mode UNLESS it's controlled and prohibited.

 

However, in terms of money, I know that only 1 person right now generating a 6 figure income playing GW2. I'm happy for them but sometimes, theyre overly aggressive with donations/asking for money. Other than that, I think they've earned it fair and square. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by greedywholesome.9081

[Spellhunter.9675]

16 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

have they infiltrated anet too?!?!?!

People got permadishonor for account sharing and selling gizmo, cancelled after a week.

People got banned for breaking TOS during tournament. Became anet partners.

People deliver so much damage to the whole PvP, got banned loudly. No problemo, lets make new account. Anet will pretend they are blind and stupid. (I'll remind in advance, bans are for players not for accounts).

Obviously, anet is not infiltrated and there is no favoritism in guild wars 2. And never was.

[Bast.7253]

11 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Translation: Not only do clean players have to deal with the Wintrade BS, but they also have to deal with clean high elo players who are forced to play in lower elos due to the Wintrade BS.

Even when you get a clean game, the matchmaking is scuffed. 

And they let the steam release go through like this. What a joke. 

That’s true. I see a lot of the same people at certain times of the night.

 

Weird thing is it’s the same people against the same people, likely duo queued. And then I start seeing weird changes in behavior midway through the match or drastic differences in their performance in one match versus another, with particular players. 
 

It almost seems like a group of people gatekeeping individual rating brackets. 
 

Some of them have names strikingly similar to other account names.

 

A lot of these matches for some reason have had double mechs, or at least one core guard on each side. It’s so weird because one game the core guard and my off meta cata build can sustain 2v5 for minutes. Then another game they’re roaming or getting insta downed. 
 

We can pretend it doesn’t happen but it’s gotten pretty predictable. I just wish they made it an enjoyable throw with good team fights rather than….

 

Auto attacking or pressing minimal buttons fighting their wintrade buddies in a cap for 5 minutes looking like they’re doing something only to have the rest of the team join and suddenly the other team is capable of nuking everyone. 
 

Or a specific bladesworn I’ve seen that chases people around caps, does no damage, but then when it’s their time not to throw manage to play perfectly and time every interrupt at the precise moment. Crazy how that happens.

 

Favorite was a soulbeast spending the entire match complaining about mechanists, running far and feeding, and the mechanist duo on the other team playing into the charade. Soap opera pretend drama to create this narrative to obscure what you’re doing when it’s clear as day. Lol

[Bast.7253]

Also, what is even the point of going through ranked queues on multiple accounts if not to cheat the system?

 

It takes x number of matches just to be able to queue for ranked. Then placements. Then 120 matches just to show up on the leaderboard.

 

And if it’s the same build/spec as what you normally play on the other account, why? 
 

To not lose rating I guess is one reason but wow that’s an insane amount of time and queues. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Bast.7253 everything you're mentioning are the things I've noticed for a very long time. You are mentioning the EXACT obvious patterns that these people do. Things that you'd never see happen in unranked or an AT game. It's just all typical of obvious throwing.

Most of the time lately, they aren't even actually technically win trading, they are just mass alt phasing & throwing on anything they get into a game with that is in the top 100 that they don't want there.

Arenanet needs to remove ranked. It just needs to go. I'll say it again, if the legitimate players can't have the game mode, the cheaters shouldn't have it either. Just remove clout display and let the game be truly casual if that's what they are aiming for.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Bast.7253 Another pattern to pay attention to, which is a VERY important pattern actually, is how there will always be this 24 to 48 hour time frame where ALL OF A SUDDEN, everyone starts dropping in rating all at the same time in the same day. I'm talking you'll see people who were playing at 1580 - 1600 just all of them suddenly in the same day drop down to like 1540, and the guys who are playing around 1550 normally, drop down to bottom plat or top gold 3, and it always happens at the same exact time to everyone. You'll notice these are the days where everyone in the lobby is saying: "The queues are just bad today". But then you'll see at the same time... certain handful of accounts who clearly are dodging these bad phases and not playing games at all whatsoever, and get to maintain their rating due to this. It's because they know what's going on and are probably participating in the event. This is important to point out because this is the throw phases I've mentioned, and it shows who is doing legitimate organic queues and who isn't.

It's a very frequent pattern that happens all season, but during the final 120 req last two weeks, they do this constantly 100% of the time and there is no room to queue as a legitimate player.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[ResJudicator.7916]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:50 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Question:

Go ahead and youtube up: "he paid 10,000 for gizmo"

Enjoy

 

I looked up the video.  It wasn't about win-trading, though.  It was about a guy paying $1,000 to pro players to play on his account during MATs (and one of the pro players doing the same for his GF's account).  Still kitten, unacceptable, and obviously something that should have been punished.  But it doesn't really support the idea of wintrading being widespread in ranked queue.  It also doesn't affect the MAT match quality.  The people who were up against Team XYZ (name redacted so I don't get banned) were still playing Team XYZ - it's just that one of the XYZ players was using a different account.

 

I still stand by my view that lopsided matches are due more to (1) high-ranked players queuing on alts b/c they don't want to take a -20 rating hit for failing to carry silver teammates; (2) low PvP population; and (3) Conquest being VERY snowbally. 

 

On #2, a silver player in a plat game will likely look like he's throwing just because he's so outmatched and clearly doesn't belong. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, ResJudicator.7916 said:

It also doesn't affect the MAT match quality.  The people who were up against Team XYZ (name redacted so I don't get banned) were still playing Team XYZ - it's just that one of the XYZ players was using a different account.

But Arenanet said:

And its rare for them to even say anything, let alone to leave that there for nearly a year. I think its safe to say it does have a very negative effect on the quality of matches. Probably because its match-manipulation/match-fixing.

Even if you didn't want to call the act of trading $1k for someone else to win for you 'wintrading', its still match-manipulation and denying that is like; at best, a technicality.

2 hours ago, ResJudicator.7916 said:

But it doesn't really support the idea of wintrading being widespread in ranked queue.  

Absolutely it does.

Think about it; if they can ruin the highest level of competitive play in this game(MATs), then how is the widely accessible Ranked gamemode going to do against the same thing?

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, ResJudicator.7916 said:

I looked up the video.  It wasn't about win-trading, though.

The video was more focused on ATs, yes. But the win trading is mentioned in this video, along with several other methods of manipulation. The creator of that channel has more videos btw. I referenced you to that one video because it has the most information on the topic crammed into one spot.

Besides that, these players actually talk about this stuff openly on their streams. This isn't exactly a debate or lingering conspiracy. It's definitely a very real problem within the community.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Bast.7253 @Multicolorhipster.9751 @ResJudicator.7916 @Ragnar.4257 

Yeah, so check this out.

This is what happens in 3/4 of my games in final two weeks 120 req, every season.

It's just blatant shameless alt throws to knock you off leaderboards, while rubbing it in your face while it happens:

GW2 - Chat Log Of Blatant Alt Phase Throwing - Twitch

[lotus.5672]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Bast.7253 @Multicolorhipster.9751 @ResJudicator.7916 @Ragnar.4257 

Yeah, so check this out.

This is what happens in 3/4 of my games in final two weeks 120 req, every season.

It's just blatant shameless alt throws to knock you off leaderboards, while rubbing it in your face while it happens:

GW2 - Chat Log Of Blatant Alt Phase Throwing - Twitch

You should stream the actual match, not you reading chat

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, lotus.5672 said:

You should stream the actual match, not you reading chat

Yeah it's not so easy to AFK mid-game and go into my desktop and turn on twitch.tv and open streamlabs, type in all the info to begin the stream, and do a mic check before heading back into the game after sitting AFK and making it look like I was also throwing so everyone reports me, only to find that by the time I get the stream turned on, everyone else has given up is also sitting AFK after seeing 2 players go AFK, and then I'm streaming a match where everyone is sitting AFK and I"m just recapping the chat in the same exact way that I did on the stream to begin with.

I already mentioned in the video that I wish I had streamed the match, but it didn't happen that way this time. It has plenty of times in the past, but not this time.

The best I could do was recap the bull**** that happened there and deliver it to this discussion.

Cool statement though. I love the apathy in what you've said here, while completely avoiding this obvious evidence that people do indeed blatantly AFK during winning games purposely to throw on target players while shamelessly letting you know it is happening as to rub it in your face.

Arenanet should review these cases and auto-ban accounts who are doing this. Enough is enough.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

19 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah, so check this out.

This is what happens in 3/4 of my games in final two weeks 120 req, every season.

It's just blatant shameless alt throws to knock you off leaderboards, while rubbing it in your face while it happens:

Yeah, the cartel always seems to ramp up operations towards the end of a season. Its also the best time to catch them, because they get more depraved & obvious as the season ends as they're desperate to hold onto leaderboard spots for that ever-precious guild wars clout.

 

And they'd do this to anyone, but judging by what they said, it sounds like a bit of personal grudge went into this as well.

Also common. If you present a threat to their operation or if they decide that they just don't like you, they will "hunt you down."

Their words, not mine. And if you've seen them play, then you know they lack the attention span to make that a joke, as one might immediately assume.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[bethekey.8314]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:39 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

My small stream alone has caught MANY an interesting moments where "on come the hacks" when these teams are indeed losing matches to legitimate 1600 players.

 

On 9/6/2022 at 12:44 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is ridiculous to say considering the nothing but vast exposure to the truth behind what these players have been caught doing for the past 10 years.

 

On 9/6/2022 at 12:44 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

How much raw recorded video evidence and sheer documentation do you need? How many times do you need to hear the actual voices of these players pleading guilty and explaining how it's done? These people openly talk about this stuff on their streams at this point.

 

On 9/6/2022 at 1:27 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

There are some of us who are deep in this community who actually talk to people, who know the players and most of their alts, who can actually straight verify who these alts are. It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players.

I quit the game around HoT and came back later when a lot of the current top players got their start. I'm pretty ignorant to the development of all this, but am aware that it sometimes happens. Is there a place I can see the stockpiled evidence? I know some players got perma-dishonored or something, but are still allowed to play/compete it seems.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

39 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

 

 

I quit the game around HoT and came back later when a lot of the current top players got their start. I'm pretty ignorant to the development of all this, but am aware that it sometimes happens. Is there a place I can see the stockpiled evidence? I know some players got perma-dishonored or something, but are still allowed to play/compete it seems.

It's all over the internet in weird places. Run various searches on GW2 pvp cheating, GW2 win trading, GW2 hacker exposed, ect ect.

But the best place to start is do search on: "He paid 10,000 for gizmo" make sure to watch that video and click on the content creators profile to see his other videos as well. This one guy put a lot of effort forth to spy his way into things and retrieve unprecedented evidence of many things.