Mechanist needed the skill floor raising, not a DPS nerf.

[anbujackson.9564]

6 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I'd rather not have to use kits, thanks.  Kits are poorly designed in the first place,  and they're cumbersome and annoying to utilize.  They still can't even add a proper auto attack for grenade kit, and you want us to rely on it to make the spec work?

 

For once in the entire history of the game engineers have a weapon that doesn't absolutely suck, and here everyone wants to nerf it right away.  Stockholm syndrome much?

Never knew that hammer sucks but ok.

Also your rather embarassing way to defend  mech against someone who suggests a good change just hurts to read. He only suggested to remove the explosive effect, not nerf the damage. That is actually a really good way to encourage players to use something else from the engineer toolkit to get the bonusses from using an explosion.

But hey go ahead and whine because you cant be bothered to engage with the class in general.

Edited September 24, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[cat.8975]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:19 AM, Lynx.9058 said:

A majority of people enjoying mechanist right now are enjoying it BECAUSE it's an easy class to play.

I'm sick and tired of piano builds.  My hands can't take it anymore.  I'm sick of having to put 99% of my focus on my action bar and tracking cooldowns and having to run a perfect rotation just to get by.  I want to actually see the battlefield, pay attention to what the enemy is doing, utilize and/or avoid mechanics as intended.

The fact that a small elitist portion of this community wants every single class to be a high intensity min/max build, despite the fact that they are far outnumbered by casual players who are sick of those builds, is the real problem here.

"I'm sick of having to put 99% of my focus on my action bar and tracking cooldowns and having to run a perfect rotation just to get by."
Drastic hyperbole. Most of the content in this game can be cleared with minimal effort, and is actually designed around people such as yourself. A vast majority of people play the game just like you do and get by just fine.

Mech will still be very good after the slight (reminder, it's only ~10%) damage reduction.

[cat.8975]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:08 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Nah, everything I see happening is just an across the board reduction of mech and mainly focused on the support build, not the LI power rifle one.

This is incorrect, actually. The two nerfs (removal of AAR procs on the mech and extra ferocity from VMD) will have no impact on the support builds, as they don't run Jade Cannons or VMD. The devs were being pretty smart with the levers they're pulling this time around.

Edited September 24, 2022 by cat.8975

[Kuma.1503]

22 hours ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

Really hard to raise the skill floor of a class made with the intention of lowering the skill floor.

 

The ferocity nerf on next patch is a good start, I wish they removed the explotion property on rifle1, that way autoattack only people won't get free 10 stacks of Explosive Temper and those who wants to keep the actual DPS on mech will have to get stacks using kits.

This won't actually change anything since Explosive Temper competes with A-AR. 

A-AR is strictly better for ranged weapons. 

[Sindust.7059]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:51 PM, anbujackson.9564 said:

Removing any explosion from rifle is actually a very good idea indeed

And just like that rifle mechs don't ever appear on pylons on Q2 any more. My guild will be thrilled when they find out that we can't do W7 in our static any more...

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

And just like that rifle mechs don't ever appear on pylons on Q2 any more. My guild will be thrilled when they find out that we can't do W7 in our static any more...

Static full of mechs?

[Wolfshade.9251]

On 9/21/2022 at 11:44 AM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

If you put it that low then you may as well bring a support build 

Thing is, it would still do more damage than most pug DPSers even at 32k benchmark. Mech-meta isn't only a result of high benchmark to low effort ratio, it's also the fact that you have a nigh-indestructable pet constantly autocasting damage abilities while you can safely pewpew from 1200 range.

In all fairness, a build that combines autocast pet abilities with massive range should do less damage on benchmarks than a melee spec. It would still be able to hold its ground in pug groups - but hopefully it would no longer be used in high-end comps.

[Sindust.7059]

12 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

Static full of mechs?

Usually just 2-4, with 1-2 of them being support. But we only have exactly 3 people who can do pylons, and one of them (me) has only learned to do it on mech. One pylon player gone, and it turns into a training run rather than a farm run.

[soul.9651]

5 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Usually just 2-4, with 1-2 of them being support. But we only have exactly 3 people who can do pylons, and one of them (me) has only learned to do it on mech. One pylon player gone, and it turns into a training run rather than a farm run.

Well as for pmech it wont change that much, at least for pylon kite, yes, the dps will get nerfed a bit, but u mainly need to survive at pylon, not just do dps,so unless they made some more nerfs with its survivability not just with its dps, kiting on mech should stay more or less the same. And i assume you have in mind those dps nerfs. I refuse to believe mech wont be a viable option after patch goes live for kiting, but as alternative there is always a scourge too which is easy to get used to aswell, personally it took me like 1-2 tries to get used to pylon kite with scourge. But like i said i doubt mech will be out of meta. It had to be like 10k+ nerf not just 3k nerf for it to be out of meta.

[Doggie.3184]

More skill floor, nuuu. They should lower it more and make some toolbelt skills auto-cast, like "Surprise Shot." 😛

[anbujackson.9564]

18 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

And just like that rifle mechs don't ever appear on pylons on Q2 any more. My guild will be thrilled when they find out that we can't do W7 in our static any more...

I mean I am honest here but I dont see how you cant use a grenade skill once in a while every 3 to 4 seconds? Literally just grenade1. Except if you got a fixed third utility, which right of the bat I dont know what that should be. The only important thing is your overloaded shift signet.

And no offense, there are three other builds, two which existed far longer (deadeye and scourge). 

And dont give me this "they cant afford it" excuse. Its the same gear down to the weapon with the same armor class on thief. Heck a friend of mine did kite/pylon jobs with like 70%+ exotic armor on his deadeye. Also nothing should stop you from learning something else. Or is trying something new or different just a waste of time nowadays because it isnt low effort anymore and people cant be bothered with that?

Sorry but if I read such excuses I can only shake my head.

[Sindust.7059]

23 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

I mean I am honest here but I dont see how you cant use a grenade skill once in a while every 3 to 4 seconds? Literally just grenade1. Except if you got a fixed third utility, which right of the bat I dont know what that should be. The only important thing is your overloaded shift signet.

And no offense, there are three other builds, two which existed far longer (deadeye and scourge). 

And dont give me this "they cant afford it" excuse. Its the same gear down to the weapon with the same armor class on thief. Heck a friend of mine did kite/pylon jobs with like 70%+ exotic armor on his deadeye. Also nothing should stop you from learning something else. Or is trying something new or different just a waste of time nowadays because it isnt low effort anymore and people cant be bothered with that?

Sorry but if I read such excuses I can only shake my head.

Translation: "I want to nerf your favorite build to the ground so that you can't play it any more and are forced to play classes you dislike".

 

No, thanks. I'd rather keep my explosion on AA.

[Sindust.7059]

On 9/25/2022 at 7:52 PM, soul.9651 said:

Well as for pmech it wont change that much, at least for pylon kite, yes, the dps will get nerfed a bit, but u mainly need to survive at pylon, not just do dps,so unless they made some more nerfs with its survivability not just with its dps, kiting on mech should stay more or less the same. And i assume you have in mind those dps nerfs. I refuse to believe mech wont be a viable option after patch goes live for kiting, but as alternative there is always a scourge too which is easy to get used to aswell, personally it took me like 1-2 tries to get used to pylon kite with scourge. But like i said i doubt mech will be out of meta. It had to be like 10k+ nerf not just 3k nerf for it to be out of meta.

I was replying to the guy who wanted to remove explosions from rifle. Explosions trigger Big Boomer heal, so it would be a survivability nerf.

[anbujackson.9564]

30 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Translation: "I want to nerf your favorite build to the ground so that you can't play it any more and are forced to play classes you dislike".

 

No, thanks. I'd rather keep my explosion on AA.

Really? Interesting Imagination. And way to go to put the blame for laziness on me for something I never intended to say.

Guess its too hard to use grenades after all.

Edited September 26, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[Sindust.7059]

22 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Really? Interesting Imagination. And way to go to put the blame for laziness on me for something I never intended to say.

Guess its too hard to use grenades after all.

Yes, because I'd rather use barrier signet. Also grenades have 900 range, not 1200, so I don't think they would even reach the boss.

[Lynx.9058]

On 9/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, anbujackson.9564 said:

Really? Interesting Imagination. And way to go to put the blame for laziness on me for something I never intended to say.

Guess its too hard to use grenades after all.

grenade kit is inherently flawed, it has no viable autoattack and ground targeted aoe effects interfere with movement and slow down rotations.  There's a reason we hate using it.

Even on my scrapper I avoid grenade kit like the plague.  I'd rather run flamethrower/juggernaut and use the flamethrower for explosion triggers.

Grenade kit sucks.  Bomb kit sucks.  Elixir gun sucks.  Stop wearing it as a badge of honor that you have to use poorly designed mechanics to match up to what other classes get for free.  Mechanist is the closest an engineer spec has ever come to being comparable to every other class in the game.

[MrForz.1953]

1 hour ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Grenade kit sucks.  Bomb kit sucks.  Elixir gun sucks.  Stop wearing it as a badge of honor that you have to use poorly designed mechanics to match up to what other classes get for free.  Mechanist is the closest an engineer spec has ever come to being comparable to every other class in the game.

You don't even need to use these either to maintain decent damage or to keep Explosive Temper up which is a very generous move from Anet given that it's a trait line about uh... explosives. And what's that silly, silly talk about engineer having been terribly bad until Mechanist anyways.

[Sindust.7059]

7 hours ago, MrForz.1953 said:

And what's that silly, silly talk about engineer having been terribly bad until Mechanist anyways

I literally quit GW2 3 years ago because the class I had picked at the character creation screen to be my main for its advertised "versatility" and stuck around long enough to level and gear it, was in practice just a mediocre melee power dps with somewhat above average burst and nothing else. And when I came back at the beginning of this year, I went to condi shortbow soulbeast, because engi was still just that or a 3rd rate healer that nobody wanted in their group anyway. Only when mechanist came out was it that I was actually enjoying playing engi again.

 

I don't agree with the guy you're responding to that all kits suck, but he's right that mech is what saved engi from irrelevance in PvE. Engi was a one trick pony prior to that, and not a particularly good one either.

[Nephalem.8921]

11 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

grenade kit is inherently flawed, it has no viable autoattack and ground targeted aoe effects interfere with movement and slow down rotations.  There's a reason we hate using it.

Even on my scrapper I avoid grenade kit like the plague.  I'd rather run flamethrower/juggernaut and use the flamethrower for explosion triggers.

Grenade kit sucks.  Bomb kit sucks.  Elixir gun sucks.  Stop wearing it as a badge of honor that you have to use poorly designed mechanics to match up to what other classes get for free.  Mechanist is the closest an engineer spec has ever come to being comparable to every other class in the game.

Grenade kit speeds rotations up. It does not slow them down.

Never use "we" when you identify yourself as a juggernaut flamethrower leech. Largest noobtrap in the game.
Power mechanist is just op af. A kitless engi is like a class without weapon swap and kitless holo was already better than some other weapon camp builds.

[AliamRationem.5172]

12 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

grenade kit is inherently flawed, it has no viable autoattack and ground targeted aoe effects interfere with movement and slow down rotations.  There's a reason we hate using it.

Even on my scrapper I avoid grenade kit like the plague.  I'd rather run flamethrower/juggernaut and use the flamethrower for explosion triggers.

Grenade kit sucks.  Bomb kit sucks.  Elixir gun sucks.  Stop wearing it as a badge of honor that you have to use poorly designed mechanics to match up to what other classes get for free.  Mechanist is the closest an engineer spec has ever come to being comparable to every other class in the game.

This is just delusional.  I know you're only doing this as a counter-campaign to convince the devs not to "nerf mechanist into the ground", but mechanist isn't "comparable" to anything except pre-nerf firebrand.  Nothing has ever been so easy to play and so stacked with advantages while also being so overtuned.  The nerfs are deserved and more will be needed in the PvE patch.

[cat.8975]

15 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

grenade kit is inherently flawed, it has no viable autoattack and ground targeted aoe effects interfere with movement and slow down rotations.  There's a reason we hate using it.

Your other points aside, I'm really interested in why you think it interferes with movement or slows down rotations.

[Stalima.5490]

You guys are ignoring what the real problem with mechanist is and it is not just mechanist alone, the simple fact is, the engineer has far too many flat damage increases now, FAR too many, when you look at this simple build you will realise how rediculous it is:

Firearms

High calibur: flat crit

hematic focus: flat crit increase on bleeding foes

No scope: flat ferocity when fury is on

serrated steel: flat duration increase on your small bleeds

Modified ammunition: flat strike damage per condition active

Exoplosives

Glass Cannon: flat strike damage increase while you are high health

Steel packed Powder: gives vulnerability every rifle burst for a flat increase

aim assisted rocket: free damage burst every 3/6 seconds

Shaped charge: flat strike damage for each vulnerability stack

Big Boomer: flat strike damage increase

Mechanist

Mechanical genious: gives mech for an outright increase

Mech arms jade cannons: applies vuln on mech hits and gives mech flat crit rate increase

Mech Frame variable mass distributor: flat precision and ferocity for damage increase

Mech core J drive flat damage increase when paired with signets

 

just about every single thing in this kind of build is increasing damage output outright without you even having to interact in any special way, that is what the big issue is and that is not just a mechanist specific thing, it is an overall flaw in the whole system of traits itself.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Stalima.5490

[HowlKamui.5120]

Im confused, if you raise the skill floor, wouldn't you yourself have a tougher time playing the class since of your partial left hand disability? 

IMO nerfing the DPS is the right move to keep the skill floor low so there's something for everyone.

[Nephalem.8921]

8 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

You guys are ignoring what the real problem with mechanist is and it is not just mechanist alone, the simple fact is, the engineer has far too many flat damage increases now, FAR too many, when you look at this simple build you will realise how rediculous it is:

Firearms

High calibur: flat crit

hematic focus: flat crit increase on bleeding foes

No scope: flat ferocity when fury is on

serrated steel: flat duration increase on your small bleeds

Modified ammunition: flat strike damage per condition active

Exoplosives

Glass Cannon: flat strike damage increase while you are high health

Steel packed Powder: gives vulnerability every rifle burst for a flat increase

aim assisted rocket: free damage burst every 3/6 seconds

Shaped charge: flat strike damage for each vulnerability stack

Big Boomer: flat strike damage increase

Mechanist

Mechanical genious: gives mech for an outright increase

Mech arms jade cannons: applies vuln on mech hits and gives mech flat crit rate increase

Mech Frame variable mass distributor: flat precision and ferocity for damage increase

Mech core J drive flat damage increase when paired with signets

 

just about every single thing in this kind of build is increasing damage output outright without you even having to interact in any special way, that is what the big issue is and that is not just a mechanist specific thing, it is an overall flaw in the whole system of traits itself.

Its not an issue. Almost every spec works like this. Holo is not busted either.

[anbujackson.9564]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:04 PM, Sindust.7059 said:

Yes, because I'd rather use barrier signet. Also grenades have 900 range, not 1200, so I don't think they would even reach the boss.

Wrong. You only need 900 range. Thats precisely the range in which scourge operates.