why is there no solo end-game content?

[SlayerXX.7138]

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, the only dishonest thing I saw there was this post:

 

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where you've repeatedly -and clearly wrongfully- tried claiming it's not meant to be a solo content. Seriously, did you already forget about the posts on the preivous page?

Yes, because from trying Drms solo they don't feel like intended solo content. After your provided prove i was wrong, I did concede i was wrong. A Response you saw because you quoted it. In my statement that i was wrong about drms not being solo content I mentioned that they still are group content and as such don't act as prove for the invalidity of solo content. A fact you dance around and try to derail because it weakens an argument of your "site". Which is kinda dishonest bro. Or you maybe just lack the intelligence to get that in your emotional tribal state who knows.

Or maybe you forgot that this is a forum and just because i Quote you for context doesn't need to mean i'm talking to you. And you took my mention personally which clouded your Judgment?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Yes, because from trying Drms solo they don't feel like intended solo content. After your provided prove i was wrong, I did concede i was wrong. A Response you saw because you quoted it.

Disagreed, I see no issues with soloing drms, your subjective feeling about "it not feeling intended to be solo"(?) doesn't change anything about that.

16 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

In my statement that i was wrong about drms not being solo content I mentioned that they still are group content and as such don't act as prove for the invalidity of solo content. A fact you dance around and try to derail because it weakens an argument of your "site". Which is kinda dishonest bro.

What? I literally responded to that post here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/121940-why-is-there-no-solo-end-game-content/page/8/#comment-1767629 with: "Not sure there's need to argue that, since I never tried saying it's not also a group content."

So, please, do enlighten me what I'm "dancing around" exactly. Or point out when I said it's not also group content. You're just desperately arguing against claims nobody made.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Or you maybe just lack the intelligence to get that in your emotional tribal state who knows.

Or maybe you forgot that this is a forum and just because i Quote you for context doesn't need to mean i'm talking to you. And you took my mention personally which clouded your Judgment?

Wait, what? What do you think I somehow took personally? 🤨 (other than clear personal insults in the post you've just written) Really, be specific, because you can rest assured I don't take "drms aren't solo content" -or anything else in this comment chain- anywhere near personally.

 

 

btw, I'm not sure why you've decided to skip the main part of the post there:

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't know why you think I need (or ever needed) any convincing about drms also being group content -not only I was fully aware of that, but I literally linked you the sentence clearly showing they are meant to be completed "either solo or in a group of up to 5 players". At what point have you reached the conclusion about me somehow refusing/not understanding it's also group content? And how does it "also scaling into group content" somehow change anything about it being solo content as well? I seriously don't know what you're trying to argue about here.

But try understanding: nobody said drms aren't also group content. You said they aren't solo. Since you were wrong about them not being meant to be solo content as well, now you're trying to flip the table and argue about something nobody said (hence the whole "do you admit it's also group content?" is just weird at this point, since -again- nobody said it's not).

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Beast Sos.1457]

7 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

It's a tough content for the majority of the player base, but I didn't say that he was too easy or too difficult. I asked if you killed him repeatedly because you like solo challenging contents (even if you didn't find it hard, it's still harder than most of the soloable content) or only once because he doesn't give any reward after the first time.

Here you're saying that people play challenging content for the challenge itself, regardless of the reward, if I understand correctly. Defeating the boss is the reward.

But here you say that a proper reward is needed. I'm confused. Really. What do you want? I have nothing against adding solo challenging content (moreover, the Pavillon is only available during the festival), so if you want that, I agree with you (and even if I didn't, I'm just a random player, like you. My approval means nothing). I'm saying that I don't think that adding a good way to farm gold playing alone will be healthy for this game.

When a player starts to play GW2 and sees those dungeons (I know, they would need some love), or open world events, at lv80, they probably expect to find some player playing them. And if they are busy farming gold in some tower, alone, the game would look dead. Until now the gold farmers shifted between Auric Basin, Dragonfall, Istan, Drizzlewood Coast, but it was fine, because even if the map changed, there were still a lot of players around, and the meta themselves were fun.

But adding a good source of gold in a solo instance would kill the purpose of an MMO. 

It's not ridiculous at all. The genre died because of people like you, that want to play solo contents in a multiplayer game. Solo players (and I'm one of them now, mind you) have plenty of games to choose from, but what should people play, if they want to (occasionally)  play with other players around them and the genre is shifting towards a solo experience? Mankind sucks, and adding more options to play alone is fine. But they shouldn't be more rewarding than playing any group content imo. Otherwise old players will look for the next good MMORPG (but good luck finding it, nowadays).

/White Knight mode off

I didn't find the mechanics fun. Run around until you cc then burst him. So no I did not repeat it. I've repeated content in expansions and in LW because I found the fights fun though.

Exactly...When they beat the final boss they quit the game. This is a MMO. Do you want people to do the same in it? Do the final boss once then quit. What a huge waste of dev time that would be. Content in MMOs need longevity which is the reward system....I don't understand how that is complicated. 

You know what I want? For the content to not be dead one month after release because people played through it and there is no reason to go back. You're lying to yourself to think that it wouldn't die if they released it how you're asking. 

So if there is instanced content for solo players, that you can do once a day as a daily, that would make it so that they are spending all day in a tower and other players wont see them? Now you're just overexaggerating to try to prove a point which is disingenuous. 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Right. Maybe you should have kept reading before writing something so obviously wrong. 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/121940-why-is-there-no-solo-end-game-content/page/7/#comment-1767226

 

Not sure there's need to argue that, since I never tried saying it's not also a group content.

Maybe you should have read my post before responding, because i can clearly see myself mentioning they did announce it to be both a solo and group content.

Announcing it however is not the same as actually implementing it. In some of those DRMs there are things that do not scale down well to a single player instance size (i.e. Thunderhead Keep boss breakbar damage, for example - it is supposed to be broken with dragonsblood spears, but that works only with multiple players present.). Not to mention the whole preevent is purely made for multiple people in a public instance.

Whatever they intended (or claimed to intend) apparently either wasn't fully communicated to people actually doing the content, or some of them kept forgetting those guidelines.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Maybe you should have read my post before responding, because i can clearly see myself mentioning they did announce it to be both a solo and group content.

I did read your post, which said "it's not designed for solo", but it is designed for solo.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I did read your post, which said "it's not designed for solo", but it is designed for solo.

No. It may have been intended for solo, can be played solo (to a vastly differing degree, though - almost as if different drms were designed by different people), but it is definitely not designed for solo. And does not fully scale down to solo in all aspects either.

You can point me to that dev post again, but my response is "actions speak louder than words" - and in this case actual design does not follow the words posted.

[Sobx.1758]

39 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

I state Drms failed for many reasons(true) and state they are not indented as solo content(false). For these 2 reason I argued that Drms are a weak argument to discredit the addition of solo content. As you disproven my one wrong assumption, the fact that drms failed because they are bad in general still stands. To explain why i think it is a weak argument I mentioned they are still group content. So if someone thinks Drms prove solo content is undesirable, the need to admit by their own logic group content is also undesirable. As group content is wanted in an MMO it follows that Drms to not prove that solo content is unwanted. 

Anyway after you asked why I would argue DRM's are still group content, because YOU  personally didn't say otherwise I explained to you why I think it relevant to the discussion. And since then your just trolling. Basically shouting" but you were wrong about the other thing mimimi" "what are you even talking about?" 

From the same post you've quoted (and now removed that quote, maybe accidentally): https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/121940-why-is-there-no-solo-end-game-content/page/7/#comment-1767130 it appeared what you're building your argument/s on is availability of data points ("They don't really have datapoints in that regard as there is no hard solo content in the game."), which from my understanding was the point of you going into refusal to acknowledge x content being solo. Now it doesn't matter, I guess.

Anyways, sure, drms can be better. But they still do have datapoints and not based only on drms, since despite your claims about "anet not knowing how many people killed x", they probably do. Whether or not they look or care about it is another thing.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. It may have been intended for solo, can be played solo (to a vastly differing degree, though - almost as if different drms were designed by different people), but it is definitely not designed for solo. And does not fully scale down to solo in all aspects either.

You can point me to that dev post again, but my response is "actions speak louder than words" - and in this case actual design does not follow the words posted.

I can, but since you already know about it, there's clearly no need to, you can just move to another page to check it again. Meanwhile it was designed to be played solo and the fact you dislike some of the scaling or them leaving the pre-events so -for example, since can't be sure about this one 🤷‍♂️- it's not vastly faster to play it solo over the group version of the encounter changes nothing about it.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SlayerXX.7138]

30 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

t appeared what you're building your argument/s on is availability of data points ("They don't really have datapoints in that regard as there is no hard solo content in the game."), which from my understanding was the point of you going into refusal to acknowledge x content being solo. Now it doesn't matter, I guess.

I didn't refuse to acknowledge. I did it the second prove was provided. The point about missing data points also still stands as firm as a speculation can stand.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

I didn't refuse to acknowledge. I did it the second prove was provided. The point about missing data points also still stand. I made multiple point, you proved one wrong if don't want an honest discussion just let it go.

How does the point about missing datapoints stands when they do have datapoints you for some reason claim they don't?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SlayerXX.7138]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The amount of players dealing damage to a target within an encounter is pretty far from improbable data to have.

That is hard to believe, when the team balances more around snow crow benchmark then internal numbers. I'm Pretty sure one of the speedrun guilds didn't upload their benchmarks for this reason.

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

There should be a balance of options available for people who have limited time/just aren't in the mood to socialise at that moment, whilst also not making this a permanent hideaway.

Sure, and this already exists.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

That is hard to believe, when the team balances more around snow crow benchmark then internal numbers. I'm Pretty sure one of the speedrun guilds didn't upload their benchmarks for this reason.

This is not meant to be some half-kittened dismissive response, but as I said in the previous post: if you think they can't collect it then for now it seems you don't understand the possibilities the devs have in regards of collecting very specific data from their game.

 

Does the team "balances around snowcrow benchmark"? Or do the benchmarks come up with the top-end optimized builds, which then get shared through their sites and used by the playerbase to build up the datasets?

[Beast Sos.1457]

44 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So why are raids still run to this day?

Since they are not more rewarding then open world after you got your legendaries from them already.

Raids give decent rewards if you have a good group to clear with. Btw have you seen the lfg? It's not that active. Either you have a static or you're waiting a while to find a group. Especially if you need a specific wing or boss. 

Buddy was saying you should get 40-80 silver for 20 mins of content...I'm not asking for the best rewards but hes asking for the worst. Thats the issue here. 

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Raids give decent rewards if you have a good group to clear with. Btw have you seen the lfg? It's not that active. Either you have a static or you're waiting a while to find a group. Especially if you need a specific wing or boss. 

Buddy was saying you should get 40-80 silver for 20 mins of content...I'm not asking for the best rewards but hes asking for the worst. Thats the issue here. 

ofcourse it is solo content you can do all day every day.

Maybe should reward even less 2 blues and a green per completion + a rare once a day.

[Drunkfrank.8795]

16 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

 

It's not ridiculous at all. The genre died because of people like you, that want to play solo contents in a multiplayer game. Solo players (and I'm one of them now, mind you) have plenty of games to choose from, but what should people play, if they want to (occasionally)  play with other players around them and the genre is shifting towards a solo experience? Mankind sucks, and adding more options to play alone is fine. But they shouldn't be more rewarding than playing any group content imo. Otherwise old players will look for the next good MMORPG (but good luck finding it, nowadays).

/White Knight mode off

 

The genre died because of people like me? Lmao you have no idea what you are talking about, the mmo genre was never more alive than it is right now, the ONLY exception being World of Warcraft was a mainstream phenomenon, but besides that, you basically have more active mmo choices now than you did 10 years ago. 

 

Now you are talking about rewards like that has anything to do with the discussion of the game needing more solo oriented content in general, which it does. Basically the whole game is designed around groups and having 1 content feature designed around solo players would not suddenly kill the game, in fact it would do far more good for it.

Mmos are not JUST "multiplayer games" they are shared world experiences, and in the real world you do not always have to interact with people, so why is that some weird mandatory requirement of a virtual one?

[Luks.4230]

Pls go play a single player game, thanks

[Mik.3401]

Maybe a feeling of mutual dependence between players is how the game intends to work. Kind of like multiplayer across the board, restricting the possibility to farm solo etc. which is a shame. GW1 had both and it was so exciting to have the choice. Simultaneously, most GW2 players just play story and open world which is kind of single player isn’t it.

[Raknar.4735]

Probably would be just as unpopular as raids/dungeons, so probably that's why.
You don't really get the "massive multiplayer" from an MMORPG in low player count instanced content like solo/raid/dungeon content.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Raknar.4735

[Zaret.1450]

This is a mmo, i mean it is made so you have to play with others, even ip open world you most likely wont be alone, and some archievements on story mode are best made with people too.

If you want a solo player game, im sry but you should try to look for an offline rpg or maybe go to gw1, i think you could use npcs as "friends"  there.

[Urud.4925]

15 hours ago, Drunkfrank.8795 said:

 

The genre died because of people like me? Lmao you have no idea what you are talking about, the mmo genre was never more alive than it is right now, the ONLY exception being World of Warcraft was a mainstream phenomenon, but besides that, you basically have more active mmo choices now than you did 10 years ago. 

The most recent MMORPG among the 7 most played ones, has been released 8 years ago. Eight years ago we had exactly the same popular MMOs that we have today. Not a single new MMO released in the last 8 years is popular today. They all failed, for different reasons. The most popular MMO, WoW, had 12 millions of players at its peaks. Nowadays you won't reach that number even if you sum up the players of ALL the current MMORPGs available on the market. We may have a different metric to judge what it means "alive". But ok, let's keep adding convenience and solo contents.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Urud.4925

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

2 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

This is a mmo, i mean it is made so you have to play with others

I think whether or not this is true for historical design (I don't think it is), I don't think it should be the case.  I think the better descriptor is that it is made so that you can play with others.

 

Sure there is group activity, and that's part of the fun, but it isn't all the fun.  Some people might like to play with their friends on the weekend for example, but also want to spend time in the week doing other activities on their own (and then talking about it with their friends.).

 

Other people might like being in a guild, so they can chat about their hobby, but not actually want the coordinated elements of group coop play.

 

Other people might not want to be social at all, and just like the world and the gameplay.  Which is also perfectly fine 🙂

 

At the end of the day, so long as these people are providing money into the game, and not detracting from the experience of others, it doesn't make sense to tell them they have to go and play something.

[Linken.6345]

49 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I think whether or not this is true for historical design (I don't think it is), I don't think it should be the case.  I think the better descriptor is that it is made so that you can play with others.

 

Sure there is group activity, and that's part of the fun, but it isn't all the fun.  Some people might like to play with their friends on the weekend for example, but also want to spend time in the week doing other activities on their own (and then talking about it with their friends.).

 

Other people might like being in a guild, so they can chat about their hobby, but not actually want the coordinated elements of group coop play.

 

Other people might not want to be social at all, and just like the world and the gameplay.  Which is also perfectly fine 🙂

 

At the end of the day, so long as these people are providing money into the game, and not detracting from the experience of others, it doesn't make sense to tell them they have to go and play something.

How is making even more solo content then they already do alot of not detrating from the experience of others that want more group content tho?

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

How is making even more solo content then they already do alot of not detrating from the experience of others that want more group content tho?

Because if people don't want to play that group content then they won't be in those groups anyway, and if they stop playing because there's no solo content then they won't be spending any money for ANet to pay for the group content.

 

Obviously I don't have the data, but given the way the game is marketed and observed the emphasis on open world, group content needs solo players in game and spending money to survive.

[Linken.6345]

2 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Because if people don't want to play that group content then they won't be in those groups anyway, and if they stop playing because there's no solo content then they won't be spending any money for ANet to pay for the group content.

 

Obviously I don't have the data, but given the way the game is marketed and observed the emphasis on open world, group content needs solo players in game and spending money to survive.

Yes and 90% of what we get are open world or content that can be soloed so abit more focus on group content would be nice.