Suggestion - World of Ruin

[AgentMoore.9453]

1 minute ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

you could just tag enemies in big events with the gizmo on, and let all the normal players do most of the work.

Yeah, realized this the moment after I posted; the same fault applies to 'hard mode' character slots since they'd still be in the same world as normal characters. The only way hard mode really works is if it's isolated (as it was in GW1) so that it can't be exploited, and GW2 can't really afford to isolate its players the same way as it's quite a different game that is already suffering resource and player-splitting problems.

I wish I had another clever compromise to offer, but I'm afraid I don't, fella. You'll just have to undergear for the thrill of the fight and go punch a veteran tiger in Verdant Brink without your chestpiece equipped.

[DeanBB.4268]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

2) Add significantly to the game whilst keeping resourcing as low as possible.

I realize at this point this has become more of a "just for fun | Imagine if" kinda thing, but you lost me here. These ideas are in no way keeping resources low. Not only are you making new (albeit modified existing) maps, you are making a new game mode, which then has to be factored into everything.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

41 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I realize at this point this has become more of a "just for fun | Imagine if" kinda thing, but you lost me here. These ideas are in no way keeping resources low. Not only are you making new (albeit modified existing) maps, you are making a new game mode, which then has to be factored into everything.

I might be missing something, but here is what you get with this:

 

1)  Challenging (and optional) endgame content for solo/open world players (a large proportion of the player base)

2) 25 "new" maps to explore

3) A new "mode" to advertise in selling EoD, and the game in general

This is done with:

• Very little new art design
• No new assets
• No new events
• No new animations
• No new sounds
• No new voice recording
• No new map designs
• No new enemy design
• Little new mechanics design (I have no idea how the instability tech works, so this may just break in open world)

I'm not sure why balancing is a concern (possibly naively).  This is a mode specifically designed to be chaotic, and harder than the main game.  The only "risk" is that somehow it is made too easy by a change, but I'm not sure what scenario would come up where that would affect this mode specifically.  Besides if it really is treated as a fourth "mode", then that's actually easier than creating new maps for balancing because the changes can be split out (easy example, Jade Bots aren't active in this mode, so they can be ignored - which is not true in all other Open World maps).

Edited September 28, 2022 by CrashTestAuto.9108

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

4) Possibly add a route to PvE legendary armour.

Theeere it is 😶

But if you really want a challenging soloable content, it's already in the game: You can already pick your difficulty level of said content by soloing things like drms, dungeons, fractals, bounties and so on.

 

Or maybe instead of having this weird "rework all the content into harder one and make it -or don't make it, hard to say?- into instanced one", focus on the correct difficulty slope as the game advances (not that far off the mark at this point btw) so people have a reason to learn and use it's mechanics instead of trying to brute-force their way through it asking for nerfs whenever something stuns them? (yup, that was also already a thread on this forum)

5 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Or we could just undo all the powercreep and nerfs to open world that have made it a joke instead? If all your military has is nukes, you don't just keep adding more nukes, you get rid of them.

^exactly

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I think that it's too late to undo powercreep and nerfs

Sorry, but this is baseless and clearly doesn't focus on this sentence being correct as much as it's "saying whatever brings you closer to the goal you've decided you want to reach".

"long story-short": Due to how balancing and numbers work, it's absolutely not too late to pull the balance in whichever direction devs would want to pull it into. Both game-wide and just in the specific areas.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

(2) This mode would only take people already very familiar with Open World, so likely elsewhere anyway.  (3) This game would actively encourage grouping, I expect LFGs for trains becoming a popular thing.

Btw I find it interesting that in the previous threads (that are still going on btw) all you've wanted was instanced solo content, but now open world is ok too. You've also wanted harder soloable content (while using false reasoning of "scheduling issues" again), but now you're listing "it would encourage grouping" and "LFG gaining popularity" as pros of your current idea.  

So... which one is it that you actually want here?

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758
*threadS, it wasn't just one as far as I remember

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Btw I find it interesting that in the previous threads (that's still going on btw) all you've wanted was instanced solo content, but now open world is ok too. You've also wanted harder soloable content (while using false reasoning of "scheduling issues" again), but now you're listing "it would encourage grouping" and "LFG gaining popularity" as a pros of your current idea.  

So... which one is it that you actually want here?

I want challenging and rewarding solo content.  Which this is.  As would solo instanced content be.  This is completely consistent and I've said it repeatedly.  It just happens that this option (while way more complicated than just adding solo modes to Strikes) comes with benefits to players who also want to group up (which actually includes me as this doesn't require any scheduling).

 

Now, I have politely stated that I do not think engaging with you is going to be productive.  I'd kindly ask you to stop quoting me in thread after thread, despite my lack of response, with these weird attempts to psychoanalyse my motivations.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I want challenging and rewarding solo content.  Which this is.  As would solo instanced content be.  This is completely consistent and I've said it repeatedly.  It just happens that this option (while way more complicated than just adding solo modes to Strikes) comes with benefits to players who also want to group up (which actually includes me as this doesn't require any scheduling).

If it's a challenging solo content, then how would it encourage grouping up and usage of lfg? In the same way you can already do that in the previously mentioned content, both instanced and OW (like drms, dungeons, fractals, bounties and so on), which you've repeatedly dismissed by saying it's not made specifically to be soloable. I don't see how what you propose in this thread is in any way different than what was repeatedly mentioned to you by many people throughout the threads (again, using lfg and grouping up in current group content also doesn't require scheduling).

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[soul.9651]

"this game lacks more new single player content"

Forums:"then go solo dungeons, fractals and raids, we dont wanna new content, they should save their resources for a rEaL prOblEms"

"Is it just me or the game compesates the lack of new content by reusing the old one"

Forums:"well we would rather see them put their resources somewhere elSE"...

So what? According to the people in forums this game isnt alowed to get any new content at this point? Instead of any new content they are just happy to see the occasional new gem store skin? Is this the real solution according to them and where are resources should go? To mtx and gem store? Again how long have we been waitting for a new raid wing or a new fractal (i know might be a surprise for OW and forum people but there are a portion of players which would like to see  resources going Into that and till this day they keep playing this kind of content no matter that anet try reinvent the wheel and yet again pick another direction for end game content with strikes cms; week after week and year after year people still do raids and fracts and its frustrating for them not to see anything new there). Hell even wvw, any new maps there any time soon there? Or how about alliances? Or idk.. its been some time since we saw a new map now, and eod came out a while ago by now, it wasnt yeaterday...

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by soul.9651

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

"this game lacks more new single player content"

Your whole post (and probably more importantly: understanding of the responses in these threads) might be different if you didn't incorrectly insert "new" in your sentence, when the claim of the previous users -including the previous thread/s about it- isn't about "new", but just about "challenging soloable content". And -pretty sure reasonably- the responses are listing difficult soloable content those players can already play for now, since if they claim it doesn't exist, chances are... They didn't solo it. Possibly they didn't even understand which parts of the game delivers possibilities of playing through challenging soloable content.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758
...inb4 now it suddenly changes to "we want more", despite clearly not playing through what there already is available in the game

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I think this is much more expansion material than game update material. All of core Tyria would need... Perhaps not a complete redesign, but a huge overhaul, and that might require a while to develop. Core Tyria is a pretty big place. Putting that aside though, I really like the idea of an alternate dimension core Tyria you can swap between.

 

 

I don't know if I agree with OP per se, but even so, how about adding a little more to the conversation instead of just an utterly useless one-word reply?

No.  (sorry I had to, I'll see myself out).

[Woof.8246]

15 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

"this game lacks more new single player content"

Forums:"then go solo dungeons, fractals and raids, we dont wanna new content, they should save their resources for a rEaL prOblEms"

"Is it just me or the game compesates the lack of new content by reusing the old one"

Forums:"well we would rather see them put their resources somewhere elSE"...

So what? According to the people in forums this game isnt alowed to get any new content at this point? Instead of any new content they are just happy to see the occasional new gem store skin? Is this the real solution according to them and where are resources should go? To mtx and gem store? Again how long have we been waitting for a new raid wing or a new fractal (i know might be a surprise for OW and forum people but there are a portion of players which would like to see  resources going Into that and till this day they keep playing this kind of content no matter that anet try reinvent the wheel and yet again pick another direction for end game content with strikes cms; week after week and year after year people still do raids and fracts and its frustrating for them not to see anything new there). Hell even wvw, any new maps there any time soon there? Or how about alliances? Or idk.. its been some time since we saw a new map now, and eod came out a while ago by now, it wasnt yeaterday...

 

Yeah i hope they focus this expansion on WvW  .

PvE have already have a stable format with Strikes + Living Stories + hopefully fractals which i believe they stated in a post that is   cornerstone of the game .

Thankfully other games will help to alleviate the pain not releasing Instance content as fast as possible .

 

I guess more threads demanding  instance content will pop up in February , if FF14  won't release anything after the WoW expanion.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Embered.5089]

I thought that you were asking for a new game mode, but it seems that you're asking for a rework of the game. I think you're still saying that the World of Ruin will be in separate map instances than normal Tyria maps, but basically you're asking for what we already have, but "harder", "more chaotic", and "more rewarding", and not for one instance but for the whole base game. This does not sound like a new game mode to me. This sounds like an entirely different game. Perhaps World of Warcraft would be more up your alley? Or Elder Scrolls Online? The latter has the gray atmosphere that you're looking for.

Everyone has their own preferences, but GW2 has its own themes made already. GW2 is not meant to be a random mob generator, or a personalized mob arena, or a gold fling. The majority of the player base has already repeatedly said that they want open world content to be easier, not harder. This was seen with solo content such as personal story instances, and multiplayer content such as the Dragon End's meta. The content would come out originally difficult, and the popular opinion was to nerf them. So, they were nerfed. This has happened time and time again, and I'm saying this as someone who would prefer to have kept everything at their original harder difficulty level. Thus, your idea for World of Ruin will never happen. Not as a game mode and not as a rework of the game. GW2 may not be the game that you're looking for right now. If you're a veteran Tyrian, maybe you're facing burnout and need to take a break.

[soul.9651]

11 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

Yeah i hope they focus this expansion on WvW  .

PvE have already have a stable format with Strikes + Living Stories + hopefully fractals which i believe they stated in a post that is   cornerstone of the game .

Thankfully other games will help to alleviate the pain not releasing Instance content as fast as possible .

 

I guess more threads demanding  instance content will pop up in February , if FF14  won't release anything after the WoW expanion.

Its just crazy to me, that instead of discussing what possible content they could add to this game which would appeal for more players, people in this forum post are just in other words saying "we are ok with no new content in this game, so no ty". Just look at eso for example, and how much of new stuff they add in between gw2 manages to make just a 1 new story episode ... And if its a financial problem for anet, then just put a price for a new living world season episodes, make it like a sort of dlc content(like mini expansion content) where once in a few months you get several new episodes, few new maps a raid wing/strike and fractal or hell even a dungeon or any other type of new competitive pvx content besides just a new map.. i would see no problem in supporting the game this way if i would know that the new content will keep coming in few months time and it will be a bounch of it.. meanwhile rn while we pay only for an expansions it takes way too long for them to make anything to fill the gaps in between those expansions.

 

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

9 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said:

I thought that you were asking for a new game mode, but it seems that you're asking for a rework of the game. I think you're still saying that the World of Ruin will be in separate map instances than normal Tyria maps, but basically you're asking for what we already have, but "harder", "more chaotic", and "more rewarding", and not for one instance but for the whole base game. This does not sound like a new game mode to me. This sounds like an entirely different game. Perhaps World of Warcraft would be more up your alley? Or Elder Scrolls Online? The latter has the gray atmosphere that you're looking for.

Everyone has their own preferences, but GW2 has its own themes made already. GW2 is not meant to be a random mob generator, or a personalized mob arena, or a gold fling. The majority of the player base has already repeatedly said that they want open world content to be easier, not harder. This was seen with solo content such as personal story instances, and multiplayer content such as the Dragon End's meta. The content would come out originally difficult, and the popular opinion was to nerf them. So, they were nerfed. This has happened time and time again, and I'm saying this as someone who would prefer to have kept everything at their original harder difficulty level. Thus, your idea for World of Ruin will never happen. Not as a game mode and not as a rework of the game. GW2 may not be the game that you're looking for right now. If you're a veteran Tyrian, maybe you're facing burnout and need to take a break.

I'm a little confused by your response.  Dragons End is a perfect example of the playerbase being split over difficulty.  I'm suggesting literally splitting that difficulty.  Give players who want the difficult Open World content an option, whilst leaving the easier version for the people who don't.

 

As for going to another game... I don't want to.  I'm not burnt out.  I like this game and I want it to still be providing new entertainment for myself and others long term.  This was just a suggestion of how to do that.

 

Also, I didn't say "more rewarding".  I said "Basic rewards largely the same as normal mode (vets shouldn't just live in this mode)".  I don't know where you got this from.

 

I used gray as an example for Queensdale.  Maguuma I think should be largely purple.  Shiverpeaks I'd have as a blizzard.  Ascalon I'd set the sky on fire.  Basically dial the world up in terms of the dangerous atmosphere for the purposes of making it feel tangibly different to the normal version.

[Freya.9075]

55 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

"this game lacks more new single player content"

Forums:"then go solo dungeons, fractals and raids, we dont wanna new content, they should save their resources for a rEaL prOblEms"

"Is it just me or the game compesates the lack of new content by reusing the old one"

Forums:"well we would rather see them put their resources somewhere elSE"...

So what? According to the people in forums this game isnt alowed to get any new content at this point? Instead of any new content they are just happy to see the occasional new gem store skin? Is this the real solution according to them and where are resources should go? To mtx and gem store? Again how long have we been waitting for a new raid wing or a new fractal (i know might be a surprise for OW and forum people but there are a portion of players which would like to see  resources going Into that and till this day they keep playing this kind of content no matter that anet try reinvent the wheel and yet again pick another direction for end game content with strikes cms; week after week and year after year people still do raids and fracts and its frustrating for them not to see anything new there). Hell even wvw, any new maps there any time soon there? Or how about alliances? Or idk.. its been some time since we saw a new map now, and eod came out a while ago by now, it wasnt yeaterday...

 

I don’t think it’s about not wanting new content added. It’s about the suggestions and they don’t like it. I could ask for a solo instance where we are in a map with clouds and rainbows. And you have to jump from cloud to cloud while avoiding unicorns farting golden  ice creams above you. Let’s call it rainbow paradise jumping puzzle. ppl would nope at that suggestion as well. If ppl disagree, they should be allowed to say so. 
 

and fixing older stuff is not a bad thing. Sometimes it’s needed to make older content still interesting. Why can’t it be both? 

[soul.9651]

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Your whole post (and probably more importantly: understanding of the responses in these threads) might be different if you didn't incorrectly insert "new" in your sentence, when the claim of the previous users -including the previous thread/s about it- isn't about "new", but just about "challenging soloable content". And -pretty sure reasonably- the responses are listing difficult soloable content those players can already play for now, since if they claim it doesn't exist, chances are... They didn't solo it. Possibly they didn't even understand which parts of the game delivers possibilities of playing through challenging soloable content.

I mean sure, they can make those suggestions so that OP can try playing the game this way "for now" but at the end of the day, content like fractals was made for a 5 man groups, not for soloing even if you can solo it, it wasnt the intended design. And why say no if those people are just trying to make a discussion about the new possible ways how people could play this game and it also would be intended design. Its like bringing any new ideas is forbidden in this forum, but without any new ideas this game cant improve just by itself.

[soul.9651]

10 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I don’t think it’s about not wanting new content added. It’s about the suggestions and they don’t like it. I could ask for a solo instance where we are in a map with clouds and rainbows. And you have to jump from cloud to cloud while avoiding unicorns farting golden  ice creams above you. Let’s call it rainbow paradise jumping puzzle. ppl would nope at that suggestion as well. If ppl disagree, they should be allowed to say so.

Hey, some people do enjoy super adventure box :d 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

I mean sure, they can make those suggestions so that OP can try playing the game this way "for now" but at the end of the day, content like fractals was made for a 5 man groups, not for soloing even if you can solo it, it wasnt the intended design. And why say no if those people are just trying to make a discussion about the new possible ways how people could play this game and it also would be intended design. Its like bringing any new ideas is forbidden in this forum, but without any new ideas this game cant improve just by itself.

...did you see the previous thread/s OP came from? He even starts this thread with "Okay, there has been a lot of discussion on challenging solo content versus instanced group content.", so I absolutely take into consideration the previous -but still fresh- discussions about it when I read this suggestion and respond to it. As such, it is still based on a claim about no hard soloable content, which -again- is false. From where I'm sitting, at this point it's nothing more than saying "maybe I have access to challenging soloable content, but I don't want to do it, because it wasn't spelled out it's a soloable content [it was at least for drms btw], so now... remake every map in the game to make it open world [where in previous thread open world was automatically dismissed by OP as well] but harder and I promise this time it will absolutely fit what I want despite my earlier/current refusal to play through harder content for whatever -now contradicted by OP himself- reason". 

Overally I do base my responses here on my participation in other threads about it and since -as I already mentioned in one of the posts above- previously OP wasn't interested in OW nor in participating in "lfg groups", I completely fail to see how what he's proposing in this thread is supposed to change anything he disagreed with in the previous posts from the past few days. And yes, that is also why I'm specifically following my opinion with mentions of currently available challenging soloable content he could participate in but still doesn't while claiming he totally would in a new one. If there's anything unreasonable or unclear about my point of view about it, ask away.

Nothing about that is anywhere near bringing new ideas being forbidden on this forum btw. I just dislike this one since it doesn't make much sense to me and is based on half-truths at best (and a completely false claim at worst).

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

I would play 'GW2 Dark' zones. I prefer a bit more challenge in open world exploration/wandering than is often present in our existing zones. I would want some significant amount of it to be sufficiently difficult that coordination with other players would be needed to overcome. This could just be the GWD version of existing group events like defend/retake Arah, etc. 

I would not want a second set of PVE legendary armor linked to this. One set for each game mode is sufficient IMO. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...did you see the previous thread/s OP came from? He even starts this thread with "Okay, there has been a lot of discussion on challenging solo content versus instanced group content.", so I absolutely take into consideration the previous -but still fresh- discussions about it when I read this suggestion and respond to it. As such, it is still based on a claim about no hard soloable content, which -again- is false. From where I'm sitting, at this point it's nothing more than saying "maybe I have access to challenging soloable content, but I don't want to do it, because it wasn't spelled out it's a soloable content [it was at least for drms btw], so now... remake every map in the game to make it open world [where in previous thread open world was automatically dismissed by OP as well] but harder and I promise this time it will absolutely fit what I want despite my earlier/current refusal to play through harder content for whatever -now contradicted by OP himself- reason". 

Overally I do base my responses here on my participation in other threads about it and since -as I already mentioned in one of the posts above- previously OP wasn't interested in OW nor in participating in "lfg groups", I completely fail to see how what he's proposing in this thread is supposed to change anything he disagreed with in the previous posts from the past few days. And yes, that is also why I'm specifically following it with mentioned of currently available challenging soloable content he could participate in but still doesn't while claiming he totally would in a new one. If there's anything unreasonable or unclear about my point of view about it, ask away.

Nothing about that is anywhere near bringing new ideas being forbidden on this forum btw. I just dislike this one since it doesn't make much sense to me and is based on half-truths at best (and a completely false claim at worse).

Im glad you are here because then I can just like/thank your post instead of having to write something myself.

[Embered.5089]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I'm a little confused by your response.  Dragons End is a perfect example of the playerbase being split over difficulty.  I'm suggesting literally splitting that difficulty.  Give players who want the difficult Open World content an option, whilst leaving the easier version for the people who don't.

 

As for going to another game... I don't want to.  I'm not burnt out.  I like this game and I want it to still be providing new entertainment for myself and others long term.  This was just a suggestion of how to do that.

 

Also, I didn't say "more rewarding".  I said "Basic rewards largely the same as normal mode (vets shouldn't just live in this mode)".  I don't know where you got this from.

 

I used gray as an example for Queensdale.  Maguuma I think should be largely purple.  Shiverpeaks I'd have as a blizzard.  Ascalon I'd set the sky on fire.  Basically dial the world up in terms of the dangerous atmosphere for the purposes of making it feel tangibly different to the normal version.

Dragon's End is a perfect example of how there is very little player support for the content that you're suggesting, and thus there is very little incentive for the devs to use your idea. Why would the devs make something that would only be played by a small number of players, when what's being requested is so huge?

You're under the impression that reworking everything won't be a huge deal. It would be. You can't just paint over everything and call it a day. That's not how a game works. If a map becomes "ruined" in visuals, why would the music not be? Would you want the music to remain happy in a map that's completely destroyed? Music is only one example. What you're asking for is incredibly high-resource. Anyone who's ever made a game or knows someone who's made a game knows that.

Also, it feels more and more like you're not asking for a simple theme change or a minigame. You're asking for an entire functional base game, plus some additions. It would appear that you want all events currently in the game to be put in your Dark Tyria, plus random mob spawning and random mobs from other maps. You're asking for even more events in addition to a completely reworked base game. And you think that this is low-resource? One blizzard is enough to make some people lag. Imagine every snowy map having a blizzard. How much lag is that? How much can the server handle? Imagine there being twice as many maps as there currently are, because you want everything to be copy-and-pasted and turned into "Dark Tyria". You think that serving twice as many core tyria maps is not a big deal?

You're claiming to want the rewards to be the same, but in another post in this thread, you asked for the loot to be higher than normal mode. Which is it? If all normal mobs were changed to veteran mobs, and all veteran mobs dropped veteran loot, that's a big change already. And you're asking for even more than that, including a legendary armor precursor. If you're a solo player who's having difficulty joining a group for raids for legendary armor, I recommend the Discord server Raid Academy. There's one for NA and one for EU. Providing a legendary armor precursor for something as simple as map completion is absurd. It would make more sense if the armor that you're asking for is a new set, but you're asking for an alternative route for the existing set. Do you really think that map completion, even on hard mode, is equivalent to raiding repeatedly and all the other work required to get a legendary armor precursor?

Do you really not understand why everyone's saying "no"?

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

7 hours ago, Embered.5089 said:

Dragon's End is a perfect example of how there is very little player support for the content that you're suggesting, and thus there is very little incentive for the devs to use your idea. Why would the devs make something that would only be played by a small number of players, when what's being requested is so huge?

You're under the impression that reworking everything won't be a huge deal. It would be. You can't just paint over everything and call it a day. That's not how a game works. If a map becomes "ruined" in visuals, why would the music not be? Would you want the music to remain happy in a map that's completely destroyed? Music is only one example. What you're asking for is incredibly high-resource. Anyone who's ever made a game or knows someone who's made a game knows that.

Also, it feels more and more like you're not asking for a simple theme change or a minigame. You're asking for an entire functional base game, plus some additions. It would appear that you want all events currently in the game to be put in your Dark Tyria, plus random mob spawning and random mobs from other maps. You're asking for even more events in addition to a completely reworked base game. And you think that this is low-resource? One blizzard is enough to make some people lag. Imagine every snowy map having a blizzard. How much lag is that? How much can the server handle? Imagine there being twice as many maps as there currently are, because you want everything to be copy-and-pasted and turned into "Dark Tyria". You think that serving twice as many core tyria maps is not a big deal?

You're claiming to want the rewards to be the same, but in another post in this thread, you asked for the loot to be higher than normal mode. Which is it? If all normal mobs were changed to veteran mobs, and all veteran mobs dropped veteran loot, that's a big change already. And you're asking for even more than that, including a legendary armor precursor. If you're a solo player who's having difficulty joining a group for raids for legendary armor, I recommend the Discord server Raid Academy. There's one for NA and one for EU. Providing a legendary armor precursor for something as simple as map completion is absurd. It would make more sense if the armor that you're asking for is a new set, but you're asking for an alternative route for the existing set. Do you really think that map completion, even on hard mode, is equivalent to raiding repeatedly and all the other work required to get a legendary armor precursor?

Do you really not understand why everyone's saying "no"?

Okay the music is a good point... but other than that why the hostility?  Two lines about possibly using this for Open World armour (which was actually adapted from a suggestion from the anti-Open World armour group in another thread) and for some reason you think this response is warranted?

 

Also there was plenty of support for keeping Dragon's End difficult.  Heck, the people who seem to be most opposed to this idea are the ones most critical of the people who wanted it nerfed.  So much of the criticism of Open World armour is "It's just faceroll 1111111".  Okay, here's a suggestion that would change that.

[Arnox.5128]

10 hours ago, Embered.5089 said:

Dragon's End is a perfect example of how there is very little player support for the content that you're suggesting, and thus there is very little incentive for the devs to use your idea. Why would the devs make something that would only be played by a small number of players, when what's being requested is so huge?

You're under the impression that reworking everything won't be a huge deal. It would be. You can't just paint over everything and call it a day. That's not how a game works. If a map becomes "ruined" in visuals, why would the music not be? Would you want the music to remain happy in a map that's completely destroyed? Music is only one example. What you're asking for is incredibly high-resource. Anyone who's ever made a game or knows someone who's made a game knows that.

Also, it feels more and more like you're not asking for a simple theme change or a minigame. You're asking for an entire functional base game, plus some additions. It would appear that you want all events currently in the game to be put in your Dark Tyria, plus random mob spawning and random mobs from other maps. You're asking for even more events in addition to a completely reworked base game. And you think that this is low-resource? One blizzard is enough to make some people lag. Imagine every snowy map having a blizzard. How much lag is that? How much can the server handle? Imagine there being twice as many maps as there currently are, because you want everything to be copy-and-pasted and turned into "Dark Tyria". You think that serving twice as many core tyria maps is not a big deal?

You're claiming to want the rewards to be the same, but in another post in this thread, you asked for the loot to be higher than normal mode. Which is it? If all normal mobs were changed to veteran mobs, and all veteran mobs dropped veteran loot, that's a big change already. And you're asking for even more than that, including a legendary armor precursor. If you're a solo player who's having difficulty joining a group for raids for legendary armor, I recommend the Discord server Raid Academy. There's one for NA and one for EU. Providing a legendary armor precursor for something as simple as map completion is absurd. It would make more sense if the armor that you're asking for is a new set, but you're asking for an alternative route for the existing set. Do you really think that map completion, even on hard mode, is equivalent to raiding repeatedly and all the other work required to get a legendary armor precursor?

Do you really not understand why everyone's saying "no"?

I think everyone's being a little too harsh and also overestimating the amount of work required for this. Just for example, you know how easy it is to copypaste (most) enemies from one map into another map? You could literally do it in 10 seconds. Maybe a minute if you want to botpath them. That's not an issue. The only enemies where this wouldn't fly at all would be world bosses, and you'd need new ones for this alt dimension anyway.

With that said, I'm NOT saying that making this alt dimension would be entirely easy and there are a lot of considerations for this, but I also don't think it's a bad idea just because it would require a lot of work. You know what else required a lot of work? Mounts. Jade bots. Fishing. Gliding. HoT map elements. ALL the entire land masses added with every expansion.

For the next expack, just making an alt dimension core Tyria would actually be much EASIER than just making a new place entirely. The foundations are all already there, ready to go. You might need to recolor a few places. Maybe add some crumbling ruins. Alter the terrain geometry a bit. Hardly the catastrophic amount of work people are making it out to be.

Combat would be tricky to balance around perhaps, but I also don't think it would be nearly as much of a factor as people say. They already have to balance around HoT, fractals, raids, and all the other expacks. What's one more at this point that will be equivalent to HoT in difficulty?

19 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

It's not utterly useless.  If the devs read this thread, then they will see that at least one person doesn't want the proposal.

It IS utterly useless because you didn't even specify WHY you don't want it. For all we know, you nixed the idea just because it didn't have lollipops in it.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Arnox.5128

[Cyninja.2954]

All of these "more challenging content"  or "more solo content" etc. recent threads all fail to address the core issues.

Core issue 1:

With recent power creep, unlike past power creep which was more about individual class performance, and the ready availability of boons for more players, a larger segment of the player base has come into the benefit of realizing just how easy this game actually is.

Core issue 2:

The gap in performance between players remains large due to the simple nature that the game is overall complex.

Core issue 3:

There is still a huge disparity between players willing to improve and learn which are going out and using outside resources (or even in-game resources like tool-tips or the damage golem), and those which do not. This disparity will never disappear or "get fixed".

 

So to every player that has recently realized how easy this game can be, now with even more boons, welcome to the club. This is where experienced players have been at for nearly 6 years and longer (the major push came with HoT and dedicated supports, before it was small segments of fractal runners and speed runners mostly).

You now get to be told that challenging content is not desirable, you are elitist and everyone should get to play how they want, no matter how inefficient or incompetent their build might be. Maybe there'll even be some epic meltdowns (remember DE? remember HoT on launch? etc) on the forums of players who can't read past their basic tool-tips. You get to experience it all now too.

 

TL;DR:

The developers, with their approach to lower the skill required to succeed at the game, have manged to get more players into decent performance territory across the board. While that is great news for class diversity and accessibility, it also comes with the now added benefit/detriment that some of those players will be just as bored in content as former "elitist".

My advice: suck it up and get comfy with being bored to tears in open world, because the skill gap to the worst players is still large enough and all of them "get to play how they want" after all too. That's what players who crave/enjoy a challenge got told for years and now you get the same answer.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Danikat.8537]

54 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I think everyone's being a little too harsh and also overestimating the amount of work required for this. Just for example, you know how easy it is to copypaste (most) enemies from one map into another map? You could literally do it in 10 seconds. Maybe a minute if you want to botpath them. That's not an issue. The only enemies where this wouldn't fly at all would be world bosses, and you'd need new ones for this alt dimension anyway.

With that said, I'm NOT saying that making this alt dimension would be entirely easy and there are a lot of considerations for this, but I also don't think it's a bad idea just because it would require a lot of work. You know what else required a lot of work? Mounts. Jade bots. Fishing. Gliding. HoT map elements. ALL the entire land masses added with every expansion.

For the next expack, just making an alt dimension core Tyria would actually be much EASIER than just making a new place entirely. The foundations are all already there, ready to go. You might need to recolor a few places. Maybe add some crumbling ruins. Alter the terrain geometry a bit. Hardly the catastrophic amount of work people are making it out to be.

Combat would be tricky to balance around perhaps, but I also don't think it would be nearly as much of a factor as people say. They already have to balance around HoT, fractals, raids, and all the other expacks. What's one more at this point that will be equivalent to HoT in difficulty?

It absolutely could be done, and you're right that it would be less work than an entire expansion, although I'm not sure comparing it to the biggest releases the game gets is saying much.

The problem is the disproportionate trade-off between the effort involved and the appeal for players. An expansion is worth the time and effort for Anet because they can sell it to players, and they make sure to include at least some stuff which will appeal to everyone.

Whereas so far the most enthusiastic response this idea had gotten is a few people saying it might be an interesting novelty for a bit, but not something they expect to put a lot of time into. If most players aren't interested at all and the ones who are don't seem very enthusiastic it's very likely any effort Anet puts into making it would be wasted.

On that basis comparing it to making an expansion is like saying it would be less work for me to cook fried liver and onions tonight, instead of the curry I'm planning to make. No one who will be eating it likes liver and onions so it really doesn't matter how easy it is - better to spend more effort on something that will be enjoyed by the target audience.