Hard Mode, a GW1 throwback with endless possibilities.

[Tervish.6583]

Decade's Devoted, I recently started a fresh playthrough of the core story and am currently working through Heart of Thorns.

 

Core Tyria is, understandably, fairly trivial in terms of difficulty, especially on subsequent playthroughs. HoT ramps up the difficulty a bit, but has largely been neutered in difficulty across the board (this is also understandable, I'm aware of the content being designed with ascended-geared players in mind and tuned later).  It's still easily steamrolled by anyone with a remotely coherent build. I see no problem with this, the main story should be accessible to even the most casual gamer. But for veterans on subsequent playthroughs, a lot of it feels like a chore or a slog. Spoilers for HoT story:

 

Spoiler

For example, in Buried Insight we come across a lab overrun by Chakk who have presumably overwhelmed and eaten the labs previous inhabitants. Our companions are struck in awesome terror at the ravenous insects, only for it in reality to be about 12  adolescent Chakk scattered about the room. We then spend 5 minutes helping Taimi create a superweapon to save the day from these infantile Chakk left behind at daycare, all the while massacring them left and right with a sideways glance or curt nod. Meanwhile our companions are screaming their heads off and exclaiming as if this is some grand battle. The climax upon finishing the weapon? It may as well have been a white flag with the word "BANG" on it compared to the wholesale, instant death I've been delivering this entire time.

I'm not upset because I've played the content before and so this is all just for my own narrative benefit anyway, but this in particular stood out as jarring because last mission I had a blast spending about 10 minutes wading through an actual horde of Chakk for a bonus achievement.

 

My suggestion , Hard Mode, isn't even new to ArenaNet, we had it in Guild Wars 1

 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode

 

We have YEARS of story content that exists solely to be played once, and put on a shelf never to be touched again. Some missions are short talk-tos, but a lot of them feel like they could be fleshed out as dungeons essentially (and even were, in the form of Fractals) This content can be given a new life by upping the mob density and difficulty and attaching worthwhile rewards, possibly adding another route to legendary armor, etc. The first tier of difficulty would be about that of a T1 Fractal. Easily cleared by a group but still possible to solo. From there if it's popular you can explore adding effects like instabilities, CMs, you name it.

 

I noticed another thread suggesting something along similar lines, but their idea seemed more like a rework of the entire game, this would be story missions only.

[Randulf.7614]

There have been a large amount of calls for HoT, certain PoF instances and especially LS3/4 to have their difficulty toned down. The skill base of the player base is massively varied so it’s not really accurately to say it’s a walkover when many still struggle.

Putting that clarification aside, I am not opposed to either a story hard mode or the more palatable idea of additional challenge motes in selected instances, but I’m struggling to see the overall gain here for the wider community and for Anet themselves to take the significant time to implement.

Personally I lean to more challenge motes for boss instances or strikes for boss instances that stretch through from the base game through the rest of the older content, including a reworked Zhaitan. Whilst I’m still unconvinced there’s much to gain from such a large amount of work and the game doesn’t really need harder versions in any form, it would at least provide some much needed consistency in group content that has been lacking during the constant change in ideas.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[ugrakarma.9416]

in HoT theres a CM for final boss.

[Obfuscate.6430]

I love the idea of a Hard Mode options existing for people who have beat the game or reached certain thresh holds and it would be optional. 
I know Challenge Motes exist in certain content in the spirit of the concept but it's not the same. 
Imagine making Squads to explore the old Core Map. What would the world bosses be like there?
What would the exclusive Hard Mode rewards be? 

I love the idea a lot, and it would be a way to add longevity to the core game.
But I am also guessing it would be outrageous amounts of work to implement

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

hmm... No.

[kharmin.7683]

No.

[god fragment.5716]

Just play in common or uncommon gear if you find the game to easy.

[Lottie.5370]

They already exist as "challenge motes".

 

It's not worth it to go back and add these to every instance imo.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

49 minutes ago, civokenes.3284 said:

Just play in common or uncommon gear if you find the game to easy.

>buy white gear from vendor

>no runes/sigils/accesories

>no traits

>enjoy

[Warscythes.9307]

1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

>buy white gear from vendor

>no runes/sigils/accesories

>no traits

>enjoy

People tend want to fight against more challenging and difficult content instead of fighting the same one but with crippled abilities. There is a big difference between the two. 

 

As response to the OP, I think there's merit to some of them to be made into strikes or a dungeon. This would be costly yes, but definitely less costly than starting from scratch. For example that kralk fight in thunderhead keep. Big area, detailed boss, cool fight that most people will play once. Maybe twice because you need to do the return achievement. Prime example to fluff it up a bit and reintroduce as some sort of content. I don't think the idea is bad. The fact is that there are quite a few story missions with quite detailed design that most people will play it once and then never again. Those assets should be reused the best it can.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Warscythes.9307

[A Hamster.2580]

Alright let's be honest here. What OP is requesting is a normal mode, not a hard mode. What we currently have is easy mode, but no one would admit it because feelings would be hurt or they are in denial.

 

Hard mode would be something like raids/strike cm's. Normal mode would be something like T4 fractals. All other PvE content is easy mode.

Edited October 1, 2022 by A Hamster.2580

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I totally agree with OP. The game is best when it is a challenge but even for completely new players who haven't looked into ideal builds (ie us) it's hard to achieve this challenge, particularly as we play together as a group of 3-5. We've generally tried to be in zones where we are slightly under leveled but there is a fairly narrow margin before you can't hit at all and once you hit level 80 it's no longer an option anyway (since there aren't any zones > level 80).

The game is often just too easy.

I would love to have an option to increase difficulty by downscaling our abilities slightly. GW2 already has power scaling when characters go into lower levels so it seems like it wouldn't be that hard for them to add an extra level of player control to downscale ourselves harder.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Freya.9075]

4 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

Alright let's be honest here. What OP is requesting is a normal mode, not a hard mode. What we currently have is easy mode, but no one would admit it because feelings would be hurt or they are in denial.

 

Hard mode would be something like raids/strike cm's. Normal mode would be something like T4 fractals. All other PvE content is easy mode.

It may be easy for players who know the game well. It is not easy for new players. Eater of souls is an example of this. First time I did this one I struggled a lot and it actually felt almost impossible. Now when I play it I feel it’s an easy mob not a boss. There is a reason topics about this specific boss comes up from time to time with ppl complaining about the difficulty of it. 
 

the thing is as you play, you learn the game and it gets easier with time. Skill has so much to say in this game and your gear won’t carry you like in other games. You need to remember there are always these new players who feels these story instances are difficult. (Hello scruffy 2.0)

im not against adding cm motes to story instances, but I doubt it will happen.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The personal story as a whole could use a rework. It was always quite dull and the last fight was very underwhelming. I've done it once-- ever.  So maybe there could be a hard mode selection. 

 

[A Hamster.2580]

19 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

It may be easy for players who know the game well. It is not easy for new players.

I don't know why you are bringing new players into this. Of course the game won't be as easy for brand new players. OP is making a request on behalf of veterans. A request for an optional normal mode that won't affect new players at all. Yes I said it. Normal mode.

 

 

[Freya.9075]

3 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

I don't know why you are bringing new players into this. Of course the game won't be as easy for brand new players. OP is making a request on behalf of veterans. A request for an optional normal mode that won't affect new players at all. Yes I said it. Normal mode.

 

 

Because new players are also viable players and to them it’s not “easy mode” 

with your logic, say you play dark souls games.  If you play dark souls games for years and your skill levels are way above average, does that make dark souls games easy? It does not, even when some players claim it is.
 

It may be easy for you, but that doesn’t mean it is for others. So claiming gw2 is “easy” and what op asks for is “normal mode” is purely based on your own opinions. 

[A Hamster.2580]

8 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Because new players are also viable players and to them it’s not “easy mode” 

 

 

Then they can stick with the default easy mode . The request is being made for an optional normal mode difficulty that won't affect new players at all.

 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 10/1/2022 at 7:02 AM, Freya.9075 said:

It may be easy for players who know the game well. It is not easy for new players.

GW1's Hard Mode was only available once you finished the story and it was also optional. So chill out with the "but new players" argument, they'd have killed Zhaitan before even attempting the level 10 Personal Story on HM.

4 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

with your logic, say you play dark souls games.  If you play dark souls games for years and your skill levels are way above average, does that make dark souls games easy? It does not, even when some players claim it is.

When compared to GW1's difficulty GW2 is in fact easy, other than the Mordy fight nothing really compares to GW1's difficulty.

 

 

[soul.9651]

4 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

 

 

It may be easy for you, but that doesn’t mean it is for others. 

Ah yes lets generalize everything. Then i can say other way around aswell who is thinking the opposite, it may be hard for you, but it doesnt mean it is for others

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

It might be very hard to implement. Are we supposed to chose Hard mode when we are in any of the cities? Are we supposed to be able to swap them on any map?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

It might be very hard to implement. Are we supposed to chose Hard mode when we are in any of the cities? Are we supposed to be able to swap them on any map?

I would be very hard to implement. Trying to copy GW1's HM would most likely require two different kind of instances of each map, one for people in NM and one for those in HM.

It could potentially work for story missions, but everything else wouldn't really be worth the hassle.

[Freya.9075]

22 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Ah yes lets generalize everything. Then i can say other way around aswell who is thinking the opposite, it may be hard for you, but it doesnt mean it is for others

And that is a fair point. It does go both ways. I agree with that. It does not change my point though. Looking at all players is important. What I reacted to was his generalization of the "easy mode" they claimed gw2 to be. 

[Freya.9075]

31 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

When compared to GW1's difficulty GW2 is in fact easy, other than the Mordy fight nothing really compares to GW1's difficulty.

I am not claiming gw2 is hard. Some stories is hard however for new players. It's easy for experienced players which was my point. 

[soul.9651]

Just now, Freya.9075 said:

And that is a fair point. It does go both ways. I agree with that. It does not change my point though. Looking at all players is important. What I reacted to was his generalization of the "easy mode" they claimed gw2 to be. 

But there was even a suggestion that a hard mode would be unlocked after an ez mode is finished. I mean this in general could technicly be done so that both sides are fine with it

[Freya.9075]

1 minute ago, soul.9651 said:

But there was even a suggestion that a hard mode would be unlocked after an ez mode is finished. I mean this in general could technicly be done so that both sides are fine with it

I would be fine with adding more cm motes. That has nothing to do with my point. The point was the person I quoted claimed it would not be a "hardmode" but a "normal mode". Claiming normal gameplay would be on level with t4 fractals.